Populous, Polluted and Pulling Out

According to the World Health Organization, eleven of the twelve most polluted cities in the world are in India. I won’t get into the particulars of what where and the scientific calculations of parts per million, just know that India leads the world in the most polluted cities in the world. India’s water is not much better. Every day, sixty-three percent of untreated urban sewage in India flows directly into rivers, or, to put in understandable terms, sixty-two billion liters per day.  Almost all of the rivers in India are polluted, even the sacred Ganges River, where swimming in the sacred holy waters is not recommended. India’s population is now at 1.2 billion, nearly double what it was just 40 years ago.

 

According to The Wall Street Journal of August 16, 2018, in 2016, 7 million young Indians applied for 8,300 entry-level public sector openings. Some of the applicants for municipal sweeper jobs were college graduates and even some with M.B.A.s.  And you thought jobs in the U.S. were scarce. The Journal article described one Indian citizen named Vinay Singhal, who runs a company creating clickbait on Facebook aimed at Americans. (If you’re wondering, clickbait is: “on the Internet content whose main purpose is to attract attention and encourage visitors to click on a link to a particular web page.”) Other companies in India that employ hundreds of workers are companies that call unsuspecting Americans and tell them that the local police and the IRS are on their way to their door, but if they buy Apple iTunes gift cards and send them the codes, they will bribe the officials and stop the investigation. Apparently, these types of companies are just as legitimate, to the Indian officials, as your Microsoft and AT&T call center.

 

Half of India’s 1.2 billion population is under the age of 25. That is a lot of young people, most of whom do not care to stay in India, and who could blame them. The caste system of India has a lot to do with success; if you are born a Brahmin, your chances are good, if not of the Brahmin class, your odds, no matter what education you attain, are not good. From The Wall Street Journal: “The basic truth lurking behind these stories is that Indian society is not a meritocracy. It is a closed hierarchy controlled by a few who have led millions of people down a doomed path of false promises.” In her book “Dreamers,” Snigdha Poonam writes: “In this gated wonderland, no matter how hard you chase your dream, it’s always someone else who decides if it will come true.” That quote probably has some resonance with young, deeply in debt underemployed college graduates in the U.S. as well, who are not seeing doors open up for them just because they went to college, even when the college officials probably told them the degree was a ticket to a good-paying job.  

 

The global culture is alive and well in India. Cable TV, the internet, and mobile phones make the citizens painfully aware of what life is like outside of India. From my childhood, I can still remember adults telling me that people were starving in India when I didn’t clean my plate of food. America has tried to help countries all over the world, and if you consider what the Americans give in terms of charity, few nations come close.

 

One of the misunderstood missions of America has been historically to have more countries like America, where everyone was free and there were many opportunities for everyone. America tried to make more countries like itself, so that citizens around the world would enjoy the freedoms such that America had, and, to some extent, to keep everyone who wants to be free from coming to America. The freedom enjoyed by American citizens is a part that a lot of critics of American foreign policy do not understand. While I realize that our foreign policy is insensitive to other cultures, it is the insensitivity of other cultures to their indigenous populations that motivates people to leave those cultures, such as those noted in the citations above. When someone with an MBA cannot get a job sweeping streets, you have an overqualified and underemployed population. No wonder they have no motivation to stay. There are too many countries to name that have millions of people who want to leave; whether or not being like the U.S. is a solution remains to be seen, but clearly, something is wrong with those countries.

 

India is the world’s largest democracy, at least in name, but they have not shaken off the caste system that makes the Jim Crow laws of America look like the etiquette rules of a finishing school. Yes, America has exploited other countries, with the full cooperation of a chosen few in those countries that obtained vast wealth. (China, among others, comes to mind.) Nonetheless, our purpose has been (allegedly) to bring democracy and freedom to all the countries of the world. It turns out that some countries aren’t interested in the type of freedom that America appreciates, or if you wish to entertain the alternate theory, that the wealthy elites of said countries have no interest in letting the proletariat get even the smallest taste of freedom or wealth.  Fair enough for the elites, not really fair for the proletarians.  

 

India’s population of 1.2 billion is a lot; in fact, it is several times the 350 million or so of the U.S.  It appears that the government of India has not been dealing very well with its population or its pollution, so the next best thing to do if you are a citizen is to leave, and I am sure that the government will do everything but buy you the plane ticket out. But India, and I am not necessarily singling them out, and a lot of countries need to address the problems that they have created for themselves. The “outsourcing” of American labor that was so much cheaper in the past might soon become very expensive when the country (India or whatever country) has to actually prevent toxins from getting into the air, water, and landfills, and take care of its citizens.

 

What goes around comes around, and with industrial wealth comes industrial pollution, industrial diseases, and citizens crippled by industrial accidents and poisons. To say that having 1.2 billion citizens doesn’t contribute to the problem of pollution is foolhardy and ignorant. Outsourcing, that corporate money-saving revenue-generating panacea to all American corporate ills is watching the pigeons come home to roost. One of the major outsourcing countries will soon be facing an environmental crisis that it cannot ignore, and will have to pay for, no matter what. The Brahmins, being rich, won’t be able to push the costs on to the Untouchables, though the Untouchables will probably do the grunt work.

 

The global village (thanks to technology that wasn’t around when all the outsourcing began) is now watching remote parts of the village get poisoned, but there are fewer and fewer places to hide the ugly side-effects of industrialization. Soon enough, there won’t be anywhere to run, and the expenses will follow the outsourcers wherever they go. In the same vein, if you cannot supply clean air and water, you might consider adjusting your population, and not passing them around to other countries like an unwanted fruitcake; that goes much further than just India in terms of population. There a plenty of countries trying to shed their enormous, expensive, and unwanted populations; my reasoning for using India is the data is readily available, they are a powerful force in the U.S. economy, and, let’s face it, lots of them want to come to the U.S. By the way, recent reports have them coming in across the Mexican border.

 

It appears there are a lot of governments that are behaving irresponsibly and both dumping toxins and attempting to lose unwanted populations. Government accountability, even in the U.S., is sometimes hard to come by. Take, for example, the case of 13 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. and find some government official who is willing to accept responsibility for them being here. I have only picked India out because of the massive scale at which the government has failed to protect the resources, water and air. While India doesn’t seem to be addressing overpopulation, that would seem to be a problem they might need to address sometime soon. Seven million applicants for 8,300 jobs would indicate a problem. The cries that these issues be addressed are out there. My prediction is that more people (citizens) and “significant citizens” who hold social or political power, will have to die, before one of the most polluted states on earth takes action. The later the pollution is addressed, the greater the payments for the solution. Outsourcers should look elsewhere, the cheap business environment is over.

 

India’s air pollution:

https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-delhi

India’s water pollution:

https://e360.yale.edu/features/dying-waters-india-struggles-to-clean-up-its-polluted-urban-rivers

Comments

Ryan Messano Added Sep 6, 2018 - 1:52am
Great article, Jeff.
 
Indias population isn’t the problem.  Her lack of values is.  Hinduism and Islam leave her a wretched and woebegone nation.  Christian nation’s should never limit their population.  
Ken Added Sep 6, 2018 - 2:25am
Between India and China, this is exactly the reason Trump pulled the US out of the biased Paris Climate accords.  We were the only ones that had to pay for our "overage" even though the agreement would only have dropped the temperature (in estimate, as you know those climate estimate have been SOOOOO accurate) 0.1 degree by 2100.
 
Yet we would have redistributed billions to countries. 
 
And people still don't get that Man-Made Climate change is  a socialist hoax that is all about redistribution of wealth
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:14am
Thanks Ken. I tell students that where we are standing was covered by a block of ice a mile thick some 50,000 years ago. The world got warmer all by itself. The other question is, if the world was getting colder, what could we do about it? The world has had 4 ice ages in the past 250,000 years, and no one can definitively explain why they happened.
George N Romey Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:41am
Very good article Jeff. I've always contended that India (unlike China) will never become the super power people claim it to be.  The country is too corrupt, polluted and lacking of will. I know people that work in India.  For them its horrible, there's no sense of practical thinking or business sense.  Indians tend to be good at one skill/one tasks which increasingly is becoming undoable in today's business world.
 
An ever rising population will only make matters worst.  Moreover, the relatively few that do get an education will be more than happy to come to the USA on HB1 Visas (and treated like garbage during the process) and work for a fraction of what Americans make. 
Ward Tipton Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:49am
So if we want to combat global warming, we need to consume more oil in the US where it pollutes substantially less per barrel consumed. 
 
Easy!
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:45am
Thanks George.  The television show Sixty Minutes had a story on H1-B visas and a company in, I think, California, that replaced almost an entire staff with Indian workers who worked for fractions of what the Americans were making. The workers had to train their replacements, which must have been great fun. My alma mater got into great trouble using an H1-B for things that they weren't supposed to be using them for. India has a city that is almost all schools, seven days a week. They seriously seek to gain executive positions in corporations all over the world, and some are disappointed that it hasn't happened yet. It has happened at a lot of the high-tech firms. If they run those firms like they run their country, they won't last long. It's one of those "how can they be so smart and be so stupid?" questions. Thanks for your comments George.
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:49am
Great reasoning, Ward. All we have to do is consume more and more until it runs out, and with our strict regulations, the world will not be as polluted as it would have been if countries like India had consumed the resources. Sounds like a plan. I'm waiting for India and other super-polluted countries that we used to offshore our work to make pleas that the U.S. should fund their clean-up, because, after all, it was U.S. companies that created the pollution. That would be the ultimate irony, and I have no doubt that these countries will ask for it, trying to make the U.S. feel guilty. Thanks Ward.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:16am
I thought they already did that with the recent Paris Accord? Or was it Committee? 
Ward Tipton Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:18am
PS In the interest of full disclosure, the idea was not originally mine, but one I did read somewhere years back. In essence, if we want to reduce the per capita pollution production from the utilization of fossil fuels, more should be consumed in locations like the US where less pollution per barrel is created. 
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:39am
Yeah, some idiot we elected with a great guilt trip decided we, and few others, need to pay for pollution. I think Trump has nullified that, but I'm not sure. If we have to pay, let's make sure and take every penny paid out of the "Foreign Aid" budget. Thanks for the details Ward.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 6, 2018 - 11:49am
Nothing like an illegal international treaty or two on the taxpayer dime eh? Gotta love our dear leaders ... seriously ... or so they say!
opher goodwin Added Sep 6, 2018 - 12:25pm
Jeff - great article - yes the three problems of overpopulation, religious superstition (resulting in the caste system) and industrial madness conspire to make life unbearable.
In a global world I reckon we need global solutions or we end up with mass migration.
Dino Manalis Added Sep 6, 2018 - 1:12pm
  India can protect its environment and grow its economy simultaneously, other countries do it!
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 3:31pm
Thanks Opher. You're right on correct with mass migration. I wonder if, historically, a many people, proportionally speaking, have migrated like this.. Hmmm, sounds like another essay or history paper. Thanks for your comments Opher.
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 3:38pm
Dino, I agree. After all, they certainly have a lot of highly educated people there in India. As for all of the educated people, why have they not addressed all of the overpopulation, pollution and unemployment? Or have all the smart people already left (called "brain drain") and the dimwits are all that are left to choke on the air and die of waterborne diseases. Many of their doctors are here, I know that. I'm not expressing prejudice here, I would sincerely like to see those issues addressed and the poor and downtrodden taken care of, rather than being seen as "expendable" or "disposable." We do not see people, even of the lower classes that way in the U.S. and I certainly do not personally see it that way. The intent of the article was to draw attention to the problem. Perhaps external pressure is needed to motivate them to fix their broken country. Thanks Dino, always a pleasure.
opher goodwin Added Sep 6, 2018 - 4:03pm
You are welcome Jeff.
George N Romey Added Sep 6, 2018 - 4:05pm
In a world with very different value systems "a global solution" isn't going to be a very kind and workable solution.  Face it, most leaders in this world think the poor and desperate are just a human fact of life.  They got lucky, the million others didn't.  I've been to places like Brazil or Thailand where poor people are considered just part of the landscape and there's very little desire to change that fact.  
 
We already have the US causing war in the Middle East in part (or at least an excuse) because people in that region have a value system will consider horrible and bizarre.  Is the developed world ready for world war to bring the rest of the world in line?  Try telling some rabid Iraqi that treating their women as a dog is wrong.
 
What we should be doing is reinforcing our own sense of values among ourselves.  On the blunt side that means keeping people out that want to be in the US but want to bring and maintain their own values.  In many ways I think what Trump has said is right.  It may not be politically correct but he right on the money when he says Mexico is not sending their finest.  They are sending mostly the unskilled (unemployable), criminals and lazy. 
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 5:06pm
Right on George. I sincerely think that people who do not share the values that we, as a nation, hold, then we are not obligated to add them to our citizenship. Notice I said obligated.
If your "culture" means beating or raping your wife, that is not only a violation of U.S. law, it is a violation of the principles upon which this nation was founded. If your culture means depriving people of another class the rights that the upper class has, that too, is a violation of both our laws and our principles. While we might have strayed from those principles at certain times, they are out present laws, and our present culture. While we appreciate other cultures, those that show obvious discrimination and outright violence towards those that they feel are "unworthy" are not welcome in the U.S. Diversity is one thing, violation of our laws and principles is quite another.
 
The U.S. isn't perfect, and I never said it was. It is just that, compared to the rest of the world, we're a pretty darn nice place to be, even if you are poor. One of the truths that someone once said was that the moment a foreign national steps foot on U.S. soil, they are potentially richer than they have ever been in their life. That is still true, and it cannot be said of many other nations, if any, on this earth. Thanks George.
Even A Broken Clock Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:15pm
Jeff, India is an enigma. It is overwhelmingly a 3rd world rural subsistence farming country, with hundreds of millions of educated people in the cities. But those hundreds of millions is a minority of the total population. I've heard stories about how low-tech solutions for bathroom facilities are not adopted in the rural areas, because the people believe squatting in the field is the more natural way to do things.
 
Working for a large corporation in IT, we became very familiar with India and with working with Indians. After I retired and left, most of the SAP transactional and master data was done by Indian contractors. All in the name of saving money for the parent corporation. I hope they are happy with the service now - I no longer care about the results of my old corporation, especially since it no longer really exists.
opher goodwin Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:51pm
FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!! FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!! FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!!
WE HAVE A SITUATION!!!
THE CHILD IS TAKING OVER THE SITE!!!
Lindsay Wheeler Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:02pm
Jeff Jackson, You are quite judgmental about the caste system over in India. But that is how Aryans, Indo-Europeans create their own societies. Some aspects of Americanism has been condemned by Pope Leo XIII. In my opinion, all of Americanism, fruit of the Enlightenment, I call the Darkenment, should be condemned. You now live in a failed state that can't produce Virtuous citizens and you are attacking the culture of another society. That was also Christendom, a Caste society that the Enlightenment destroyed. Now, look at Europe----overrun by Muslims, European daughters raped by the Hordes.   
 
Who brought Hitler to power?  It was the Progressive Academic Idiot President Woodrow Wilson who ordered the abdication of the princes and monarchies of Germany and Austria!  Nature abhors a vacuum. The Weimar Republic was based on America!  It failed miserably!  How did Americanism work there?  America has attacked Catholic countries like Cuba and the Philippines.  The first thing the barbarian Americans did in Catholic Philippines was ordering the separation of Church and State!  America went purposely against Catholic Spain. 
 
Americans are a wrecking ball throughout the world. You are not smart people but a very dumb idiotic people with the Jewish goal of Tikkun Olam---Fixing the World which came thru the Puritans which ended up as Yankeeism. 
 
You write: "One of the misunderstood missions of America has been historically to have more countries like America,...." And that is why Macron and Merkel are flooding their countries with Third worlders and genociding their own people thru ethnic dilution!  
 
Americanism is really Masonry. 
Leroy Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:03pm
Excellent, well-researched article, Jeff.
 
It is hard to imagine a country more polluted than China.  I've seen days where I couldn't see the apartment building next to mine.  I've seen days where the numbers were literally off the charts, flashing 999.  I've been inside malls where there was a haze.  I've seen dead, diseased pigs floating down the Huang Pu river in downtown Shanghai.  
 
They say a population explosion is coming to Africa and India.  There will be a mass exodus like the world has never seen.  Eurasia is about to be transformed.  We'll see how long the idea of open borders last in Europe. 
 
I think Mathus was correct about war, famine, and disease controlling the population.  Technology has been able to keep us ahead of the curve.  When it falls it, it will fail spectacularly.
 
China is rumored to have a solution; export two or three million Chinese to Africa.  We may see how well colonialization redux works out.
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:19pm
Thanks Leroy. Yes, Malthus may have been right, that soon we will reach an exponential population explosion that will cause great disruption. China, in the 1980s, realized that they had a quarter of the world's population on less than 15% of the world's arable land, and instituted the "one child" policy. While that might seem intrusive and even fascist, China realized long ago, after millions went starving, that they simply could not maintain their population explosion. Some of these countries are going to have to get real about their populations. I have heard of the operations of China in Africa. As if there aren't enough Africans starving now? Thanks for your comments Leroy, always insightful.
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:23pm
Thanks for the insight Even. I can't say I have had a lot of exposure to Indians, at least not to any detailed degree. Having millions of educated people in a population of over a billion doesn't seem out of order. But they're creating a mess that they will have to clean up or starve, or perish from the diseases they foster with their pollution. If they wish to kill themselves, so be it. I'm hoping they don't ask the U.S. to save them from themselves, it will be like putting an addict into rehab, screaming and kicking the whole way. Thanks for your comments Even.
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:32pm
Lindsay, generally I don't respond to screaming idiots, but in your case I will make an exception. I have stated in the essay that American foreign policy was insensitive to foreign cultures, and that is true. For some reason, we cannot imagine a society who treats their fellow citizens as badly as the caste system does. And it is this treatment, though not alone specifically, that has caused, and will continue to cause the great hardship in India. It is a country, in my opinion, that will face terrifying challenges that may eventually leave millions dead, all initiated by policies that were never fair in the first place. Good to know that Hitler was put in place by Woodrow Wilson, my history and political science education never demonstrated that profoundly insightful wisdom. Please feel free to share similar wisdom here, just do not expect any responses, since your rants are borderline insane. Thanks for your comments Lindsay.
Leroy Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:51pm
"China, in the 1980s, realized that they had a quarter of the world's population on less than 15% of the world's arable land, and instituted the "one child" policy. While that might seem intrusive and even fascist, China realized long ago, after millions went starving, that they simply could not maintain their population explosion."
 
China is now regretting the one-child policy.  Couples can now have two.  There is a rumor that limits will be scrapped altogether.  Why?  Not enough younger workers to support an aging population.  China's population will go through a decline soon and it will hurt the country.  GDP is largely dependent on population.  When it declines, so will GDP.
 
India has wonderful demographics.  It will have an abundance of workers for a long time.  It will overtake China's economy in the not so distant future.  Fortunately, the demographics are relatively favorable for the US, much better than its neighbors and Europe.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:04pm
Thanks for the well studied article, Jeff.  Dispelling the myth of that great "Economic powerhouse, India."  no they aren't but like most Trumpian enemies, they have to be "powerhouses" like India.  "If we were only more like them, America would instantly be Great, Again.  India is just one in a long list of enemy nations, save Russia.  We got Canadian enemies, North Korean enemies, Mexican enemies.  And not to forget Venezuelan enemies...and Indian enemies.  India is a polluted cesspool.  Like China, India has decided environmental issues are rank interference.  After a month of "China Air" due to forest wildfires, time we did something.  When air quality is so bad it sets off indoor smoke alarms, time something is done other than rollback clean air regs,  But only if we do rollbacks can we compete with countries like...China and India.  Horsecrap.  Lock up the Koch bros, or make them breath air through masks, tank air supply imported from Mumbai and Shanghai.  I'm sure "The Base' thinks breathing is for liberal chumps...Some rightist asked what we do if the World starts getting colder....simple.  Everyone get in their cars, start 'em up, and push the gas peddle down.  If everyone does it....
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:51pm
Yes, Leroy, China has somewhat abandoned the one child policy, but only for those who can support a second child. As I understand it, the second child will not receive any government support. Japan has an elderly population, and they are offering all kinds of government support and tax relief for those who procreate. Europe's population is the same as Japan's, much older and few younger people.
It's a never-ending cycle. India's bubble population will face having to support a huge population that will be getting older. Half of 1.2 billion is around 750 million people getting older and needing support, so then, they need another 750 million to support the old folks. As lifespans increase, productivity will increase as well, with older people working later into their lifetimes. We are already seeing that in the U.S. population.
Part of the problem with Greece's economy is that too many people took government jobs and retired with full benefits when they were in their early fifties, and all of those collecting government pensions strained their economy into the wreck that it is in now, with options such as cutting the government pensions, as there are few, if any, government alternatives. China's semi-capitalistic economic turnaround has boosted their economy and made it so that they can afford to import food for their huge population. They have to import it, because, as mentioned, they have 25% of the world's population on a small percentage of arable land. I'm not sure that any nation can procreate their way to prosperity. Thanks for your comments Leroy, that is a very interesting point.
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 11:02pm
Thank you for your comments Jeff. The population of the world, and  the pollution that populations create is becoming more of a world problem. As resources become more scarce, and pollution becomes more global, there has to be at least some cooperation. While I'm not necessarily a globalist, we are seeing the oceans being fished out until there won't be any more food to collect from anywhere. There are miles and miles of plastic in the oceans killing the fish that humans will eat. China and India, being so hugely populated, are going to have to be part of a solution, they cannot have a nation of 350 million like the U.S. pay for all of it. Both China and India are polluting at amounts that will come back to haunt all of us. The economic powerhouse of China has been powered by few, if any, regulations. That simply cannot continue as it is, and the outsourcing that was once cheap because of a lack of environmental regulations, their economic advantage, will disappear quickly when they have to take the appropriate measures to stop pollution. Thanks Jeff.
Bill H. Added Sep 7, 2018 - 1:19am
Overpopulation and corporate greed need to become the major issues. Trying to cure the negative results, rather than tackle the real causes is totally illogical. We should know by experience that short-term band-aids don't work in the long run.
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 7, 2018 - 5:23am
Great comment Bill, and I totally agree. China saw overpopulation and took measures to slow it down, but then became scared of old people not having anyone to care for them. As I have said, I do not think we can procreate our way out of that problem; more people are more people.  The competitive advantage of zero environmental regulations is disappearing, and advantages such as offshoring are disappearing with it. Thanks Bill.
opher goodwin Added Sep 7, 2018 - 6:04am
Leroy - China isn't regretting its policy. It is relaxing it because it has achieved its aim.
India, which I visited this year, has huge problems with overpopulation which is resulting in mass poverty, environmental destruction and massive pollution. The streets are piled with rubbish and shit full of rats and everywhere is a mess of decay and filth. There are hovels and shanty towns all over the place and rivers are clogged with garbage and shit.
I visited China, where my daughter was living, and it is clean, wealthy and flourishing.
opher goodwin Added Sep 7, 2018 - 6:05am
Bill - I agree - Overpopulation, corporate greed and environmental issues are the three main things.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 7, 2018 - 9:22pm
You saw the shit in Indian Rivers, but maybe could only smell the urine.  The "economic powerhouse," can't figure out public sanitation, so virtually every body of water is used as a bathroom.  Those people sqautting out in river shallows weren't fishing, shit floats, opher.  Your observations of India are the same as mine.  It's all stuff you can see, but they don't get it.  Indians will work in the US for almost nothing.  "I can get a master degreed IT guy for mininum wage. Hand me a HB-2 form!" 
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 7, 2018 - 10:16pm
One has to wonder how smart they are with the indiscriminate procreation and unbridled pollution! Do they have college grads running that country? Thanks to opher and Jeff.
Kristen Foley Added Sep 9, 2018 - 5:20am
To be sure, India is a poor country with a huge population.  In being a poor country with a huge population there many strains on its environment and loads of cheap labor.  Thankfully, the population growth rate in India has been trending down. The reason population growth rate trending down is the same reason it has been trending down everywhere, economic development. 
 
As has been witnessed everywhere, the more an economy improves the less children people have.  There are many reasons for this phenomenon.  One is the fact people are able to afford abortions and other forms of birth control. 
 
The reason India’s economy has improved is because of outsourcing.  The more foreign companies exploit India’s cheap labor pool, the more India advances economically.  Because Indians speak relatively good English, they are increasingly relied upon for call centers and things like that.  So if the environment and overpopulation is your concern, you should embrace this outsourcing with open arms.  However, you clearly don’t…why? 
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 9, 2018 - 8:50am
Kristen, your economic improvement, from the article: According to The Wall Street Journal of August 16, 2018, in 2016, 7 million young Indians applied for 8,300 entry-level public sector openings. Some of the applicants for municipal sweeper jobs were college graduates and even some with M.B.A.s."  Seven million seeking  8,300 open jobs is economic improvement? 
 
Kristen, your comment: "The reason India’s economy has improved is because of outsourcing.  The more foreign companies exploit India’s cheap labor pool, the more India advances economically." From the article: “The basic truth lurking behind these stories is that Indian society is not a meritocracy. It is a closed hierarchy controlled by a few who have led millions of people down a doomed path of false promises.” In her book “Dreamers,” Snigdha Poonam writes: “In this gated wonderland, no matter how hard you chase your dream, it’s always someone else who decides if it will come true.”  That hardly sounds like a lot of economic opportunity. Slave wages never saved any country.
 
Kristen, your comment: "So if the environment and overpopulation is your concern, you should embrace this outsourcing with open arms.  However, you clearly don’t…why? " From the article: "What goes around comes around, and with industrial wealth comes industrial pollution, industrial diseases, and citizens crippled by industrial accidents and poisons... Outsourcing, that corporate money-saving revenue-generating panacea to all American corporate ills is watching the pigeons come home to roost. One of the major outsourcing countries will soon be facing an environmental crisis that it cannot ignore, and will have to pay for, no matter what."  Outsourcing was a temporary shift to try to avoid environmental regulations that increased costs. The environmental damage that the organizations didn't want to prevent is now poisoning India and other countries, and when the costs of cleanup and further environmental damage are added to the cost of production, outsourcing will no longer be profitable.
Thanks for your comments Kristen.
 
opher goodwin Added Sep 9, 2018 - 2:20pm
Jeff - India favours education. They know it's the only way out of the shit. They come out of those hovels looking pristine and go off to school to do their best. It's their ticket out.
When they are qualified they head for the cash - the USA and West. They flee the shit. 
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 9, 2018 - 5:38pm
opher, I respect that very much. But I'm wondering why a country with so many educated people can't provide high tech or even decent jobs for such an obviously educated population?
Kristen Foley Added Sep 10, 2018 - 2:26am
Are you honestly disputing the rise of India’s economy by referencing a job advertisement that received a big response and by quoting a book with a contrarian opinion?  Hopefully you’re just kidding because I shower this thread with data points that prove me right.  The fact of the matter is that India is an impoverished country, but things have gotten significantly better the past few decades. 
 
As for your opinion on outsourcing, I see nothing wrong about impoverished Indians finally having a job.  What you call slave wages, is a middle class life style in India.  Of course corporations employ Indians to improve their bottom line, but those jobs do far more good for the Indian economy than any government tax and spend program.  Accordingly, corporations should be commended for doing business in India on humanitarian reasons alone. 
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 10, 2018 - 6:19am
Why yes, Kristen, The Wall Street Journal is always kidding around with information like that; it's one of the most hilarious newspapers ever.  India's population doubling in the past few decades, why yes, another good thing, of course; more mouths to feed is always better, just ask the Chinese, or any of the Middle East nations attempting to shed millions of citizens that they can't feed. I never realized what benefit outsourcing was until you explained it to me. Let's just export all of the American manufacturing jobs, and the IT jobs as well, so that certain people in America can make tons more money, while our middle class falls into poverty, and our tax base erodes. All the while, of course, India gets all the pollution that America won't tolerate, after all, they'll be better with a polluted country. Great ideas here, thanks Kristen.
George N Romey Added Sep 10, 2018 - 1:04pm
Actually Jeff all those "wonderful jobs" she speaks of cause more damage.  Because of those jobs people move from extreme poverty to dire poverty and with it less infant deaths.  This then adds to population growth and hence all of the environmental issues.  Meanwhile India's wealth lives above it all, profits immensely from all of the new industry that moves in, and assumes its just the natural law of a god that there are so many poor.  
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 10, 2018 - 2:30pm
Exactly George, exactly. The poor in India stay poor, and the rich get richer. It's a cultural thing with them. No need to feel guilty getting rich off the backs of the poor, that is the will of the gods. India has a bunch of gods, by the way. Thanks George, as always, insightful.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 10, 2018 - 6:19pm
I keep hearing from people trying to outsource customer service or help desks to India how the Indian managers brag they've got a dozen people answering phone with doctorates, so many more X with advance degrees, and their employment in India is leaning to read lies from 3x5 cards to those calling in.  "So, you have a doctorate in IT, but can you lie like it's the truth to a dumb American?  Yes or No?"
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 10, 2018 - 6:46pm
Thanks Jeff. All that brainpower and what are they coming up with? Is there something "cultural" in their inability to initiate and foster indigenous industries?  I always thought if you earned a doctorate you had to come up with something new. How come they can't think of anything, only taking the outsourcing from other countries? I'm thinking these "doctorates" aren't as rigorous as they might be elsewhere. Perhaps the Brahmans are just paying their way to degrees and not actually doing work? Because they didn't do any work their whole lives, just piling on the Untouchables? Just asking. Thanks for your interesting contribution Jeff.
Johnny Fever Added Sep 11, 2018 - 3:02pm
Outsourcing isn’t something one country takes from another.  Outsourcing is what companies do when they realize that the product or service needed can be obtained someplace else.  It’s not something someone needs a doctorate to figure out.  After all, if you can build a widget for $2 but can buy a widget for $1, what would you do?  Kudos to India for being able to market itself as a good place to outsource call centers. 
 
Often times, countries choose Americans to do their work.  After all, in the world of high finance, if you need money, there is no better place than Wall Street.  Which means our country is like an outsourced financial services firm. Kudos to America for capitalizing on and marketing some of the things we do best.  
Jeff Michka Added Sep 11, 2018 - 3:45pm
Brilliant, Johnny with a Fever: "Outsourcing is what companies do," not to find a "better" solution, but to find cheaper ways.  How do you preceding comment jive with "Often times, countries choose Americans to do their work." That's nonsense talk in direct contradiction to your earlier "statements,"  And you working on Wall Street, Johnny?  LOL.  More quasi-rightist nonsense non solutions.

Recent Articles by Writers Jeff Jackson follows.