The Extrapolation of Logical Conclusions

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The proverbial slippery slope, like any major fall, is not painful in and of itself. The pain does not generally occur until the inevitable conclusion once the bottom is hit. There are three points of consternation I will reference at the end of this article, but let us first take a look at the “crazy conclusions” I drew from past events.

 

In a very literal example of this theory, when I was a young boy, I took my sled out one beautiful winter day. All of the crops had long been harvested out of the valley, though the berry bushes remained in place down by the runoff that ran through that particular valley. The slopes however, were ideal for sledding and I intended to take full advantage of an entire day off to make as many runs as I could down that beautiful slippery slope. At first, it was both satisfying and exhilarating as I had my way with that hill and valley which in my young mind, challenged any of the best ski slopes in the world. Eventually however, I would come to break the steering on my sled, losing control. Despite the best of intentions for deftly maneuvering my sled through the breaks in the berry bushes, I lost control. This ultimately led me to run my sled directly through a frozen berry patch … replete with cold, hardened, frozen thorns. Suffice it to say that despite my earlier intentions, the end result was substantially less than pleasant. No matter how well-intended my venture on to the slippery slope may have begun, once things got out of control, there was nothing to do but hang on for the ride and hope it would not hurt too bad … or for too long, once I hit the bottom … though there was no predicting just how bad it would end up being … and it got bad.

 

When I was still a relatively young man, smoking suddenly became an issue of concern for a great many people. At first the efforts were merely to ban smoking in enclosed spaces. Buses and airplanes were the most common examples given to the general public. As I sat in the neighborhood bar listening to people applaud this effort, I thought to enlighten them. I was deemed to be “crazy” when I pointed out that the only logical conclusion to such government intervention, would be the banning of smoking in private business establishments such as the very bar we were sitting in, and one day, even in private homes. Lo and behold and here we are today, government telling us when and where we can and cannot engage in lawful activities. (Yes, I am aware of the issues of second hand smoke, all based on a UN report from 1974 or 1976 if I remember correctly, that could not find any direct correlation between second hand smoke and disease … and which has since been entirely scrubbed from the UN Library) Fast forward to today and there are literally places (such as Temecula, California) where you can receive a ticket with no fine for smoking an illegal substance (marijuana … and you may note I only said illegal and not unlawful) but you can be arrested for smoking a legal substance. Such is the arbitrary nature of human government and governance however … and why the slippery slope in itself, no matter how appealing it may seem at first, is so dangerous when it hits rock bottom … or even a thorny bottom for that matter.

 

In the mid seventies, there was a push by the Supreme Court to avoid having to hear every issue that was brought before them. It was deemed that there were just far too many cases being presented in front of the Supreme Court for them to be able to hear each and every one. Nobody bothered to question the arbitrary nature of government abuses that led to such a backlog, but rather, the government, in its infinite wisdom, deemed that the SCOTUS would only hear such cases as it deemed fit to hear. Again, I was called crazy and then, even a “Conspiracy Theorist” for correctly pointing out that this would allow them to avoid controversial cases, and even to more openly and blatantly engage in partisanship that would ultimately lead to them having even more power to legislate from the bench. “But that would never happen in America!” If only I had a dollar saved for each time I heard that I would never have to worry about finances for the rest of my life.

 

Again, going back to the late seventies and moving on into the early eighties, CCTV became popular and saw the installation of the first traffic lights. Once again, a lot of people thought I was crazy. Why? Because I predicted that these would soon be used for more than just observing traffic and would record the movements of people all over the place. I further extrapolated, judging only based on my personal experience with humanity and human nature, that these would soon be “monetized” and used to issue traffic tickets and other violations … ultimately leading to them being utilized as a means of revenue generation. I further postulated that this would likely result in an increase in traffic accidents and ultimately, traffic fatalities due to the desire of people to beat the lights and the cameras. Not only have all these scenarios come to pass, but the inclusion of facial recognition software and other privacy violations … though the government says we have absolutely no right to any privacy in public locations … and benevolent and dear leaders as they are, we should unquestioningly heed the comments and opinions of our dear leaders … we are rapidly moving into a truly Orwellian state that will inevitably end poorly.

 

SIDENOTE: One of the technologies I have personally witnessed in projects I have worked on, has the ability to fully scan people, detecting even trace amounts of drugs, knives, firearms and even chemical residual indicating that a person may have recently been in contact with certain types of chemicals or explosives.

 

I bring this up because I see a great many unnerving trends wherein people are actively petitioning the government to further limit and even restrict our rights … at least to the extents that we have rights left, and not just privileges which we contract out from the “representatives” who tend to laud over us more than represent anything other than their own personal interests. Three of these stand out in particular because of the direction they are taking and I will address these here.

 

The first troubling trend I see is an unprecedented attack on our Second Amendment Rights. The government of California has recently indicated that demanding technology that is not yet available, be utilized in virtually all of the firearms within the state. Furthermore, the Ninth Circuit apparently does not see this demand that can never be met under current limitations of production, as being in any way a violation of the “rights” of the flesh and blood humans living within the state. Further, some people are demanding that government further restrict our rights by classifying what types of arms we may or may not own … even though other similar firearms fire the same rounds that do the same damage. In short, we have people demanding a government that, with single digit approval ratings for the legislative branch, is apparently NOT a government that many people trust, use Government Law Enforcement Agents with guns to prevent law-abiding citizens from possessing firearms … and this from the same people who are actively protesting … these very same police officers for their actions against unarmed civilians. The circular logic to draw such conclusions does, admittedly baffle and trouble me, but … why do we need people with guns to enforce the law and to stop criminals, when a great many law abiding citizens are already armed and capable of being held to account if they abuse this right. After all, isn’t the vast majority of the complaints against the police for shooting unarmed civilians? If a Civilian were to put seventy-two rounds into the back of a vehicle that was not even the same type of vehicle that the suspect that they were pursuing was driving, and seriously injured two elderly ladies in the process, would the citizen not be held to account? The police were not. If a civilian shot a sleeping man sixteen times during a warrantless search, would the citizen not be held to account? The police were not … but these are the only people we want to trust with firearms? We do not trust the individual who can be held to account, but we trust the people we do not trust and protest against … huh? Truly there is a “WTF!!!” moment or ten in that set of kind of ill “logic”.

 

There is currently a movement of some sort … insert your bowel joke of choice here … sweeping through Universities across the nation. Some universities have moved to ban free speech on campus, or limit Free Speech to restrictive and limited zones. “Safe Zones” are demanded for students, often times including coloring books, milk and cookies, pictures of kittens and puppies, and other asinine requests. Are these not adults? I understand that the American indoctrinational institutions … I mean educational institutions have failed these students and society as a whole, as evidenced by the number of university students requiring remedial classes even after being admitted to the Universities … but seriously. Furthermore, these “movements” have demanded segregation based on race, class or other distinctions. There is a perverse and sickening reaction to seeing people whose parents and grandparents marched, bled and were often beaten to gain the rights of desegregation … equal rights within society, actively demanding that those rights be rescinded. If allowed to continue unabated, these “movements” cannot end up anything other than miserably and will ultimately prove to be overly detrimental to the very people they profess to be “protecting” from the “real world”.

 

Finally, there seems to be a general belief among the Judges of the Supreme Court that something may be in complete contradistinction to the Constitution, yet still somehow or another be seen as wholly constitutional. This flies in the face of all of the founding documents I have ever seen, save perhaps those conclusions of Jefferson who foresaw such actions and demanded more than just the ability to remove these Judges from the bench … which I do not personally recall ever happening if I am not mistaken. Federal Forfeiture Laws (as opposed to Civil laws allowing for confiscation of private property used in the commission of a crime or purchased from the proceeds of criminal activities) … The Federal Forfeiture Laws completely disregard any fourth amendment rights regarding unlawful searches and seizures. Furthermore, when fighting these cases, it is the responsibility of the person whose property has been unlawfully stolen from the citizen, to PROVE that they were NOT in the commission of a criminal activity … often costing more than the original amount that was stolen … I mean “forfeited” to the government to begin with. In 2014, Federal Forfeiture Laws allowed the government to steal more from the American People than the criminal element of society was able to steal. Boca Raton in Florida, was prohibited from utilizing Federal Forfeiture laws back in the nineties, not because they stole too much personal property from the American people, but because they did not share enough of their ill-gotten gains with the feds.

 

The Lautenberg Act was passed as a two paragraph rider in 1996 and does away with any pretense of Due Process under the law, to grant people “Instant Felon Status” sans Judge, jury or executioner … so to speak. The NDAA passed under Bush and further expanded under Obama (that would be part of the whole “Right Jackboot”/“Left Jackboot” delusion … I mean illusion … that I am constantly referring to) thoroughly dismisses any pretense of individual rights or freedoms based on the opinion of some official somewhere that what you are doing may have some impact on National Defense … No, Proof need not apply, as it is apparently irrelevant in matters of law anymore … neither in Canada nor in the USA. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has fully admitted to seeking “guidance” in SCOTUS decisions from International Law, most notably in matters where she disapproves of the rendering a basic reading of the Constitution would supply. By its very nature, anything that is in contradistinction to the Constitution is nothing but Unconstitutional in nature … and to state anything otherwise … or even to lay claim to anything else, is more than just foolish, it is at best, blatantly deceptive, and at worst, delusional. A one hundred mile area within any border of the United States of America has now been declared to be a “Constitutional Free Zone” … meaning that anyone who lives within those areas has no legal expectation of God-given (Or merely as endowed by our Creator if you prefer) and Constitutionally guaranteed rights … and a complete disregard for the Constitution has been ruled to be “wholly constitutional”!

 

None of this can end well, even for someone who does not see the downside of everything. As I once noted elsewhere, the problem with being a cynic is not being wrong as that will inevitably result in a positive or pleasant surprise. The problem with being a cynic is being correct so often.

Comments

The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:08am
My four favorite words in the English language: I told you so
 
Excellent piece Ward! Thanks for taking the time to compose and share this.
Stone-Eater Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:22am
Ward
 
Goodie ! Thanks. The same trend is visible in Europe of course, and when the cashless society is fully being introduced we'll all be fucked completely. No more extra cash for the unemployed doing little work to get along a bit smoother. We'll live in a prison without visible bars.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:27am
It gives me no pleasure to say I told you so.
 
Good one Ward. 
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:35am
....yet sometimes it still must be said 
Ryan Messano Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:45am
Good piece, Ward.
 
This began long ago in the matter of virtues, as SCOTUS was never empowered by the Constitution to give us moral decrees.  It’s illicit legalization of contraception in 1965, porn in 1969, abortion in 1973, homosexuality in 2003, and homosexual marriage in 2015 are all stains on our history, and can’t be reversed fast enough.  It’s so bad that clueless conservatives argue that these debauched choices ought to be legal because we are ‘free’ people.  They stupidly don’t realize that freedom and liberty are only possible with virtue, and national virtue is impossible in a nation that legalizes the above listed vices.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:58am
I think this one took about twenty minutes to write. My selection of reference materials has become so limited, I have most of it memorized. :/
 
That being said, they do say when you begin to grow old, the first thing that goes is the memory ... I do not remember what is supposed to go next though. 
Even A Broken Clock Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:19am
Ward, we probably both suffer from curmudgeonness. Old enough to have seen the changes being wrought around us ending up restraining us more than we believed possible (well, you believed it possible). Even Orwell could not totally foresee the power of technology to serve as a monitor on all of us. And Stone's comment regarding cashless transactions will also be seen as prescient. Thanks for writing this.  (20 minutes? You're one heck of a fast typer)
Ward Tipton Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:23am
My mother used to burn up electric typewriters when they first came out because she typed so fast. She still fusses at me for not typing fast enough LOL Mind you, I only use two fingers on each hand which also drives her nuts ... but when I beat my typing teacher in a speed contest, she quit hacking on me about it at least. 
Ward Tipton Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:23am
Probably? I turned into Walter Matthau without the funny lines in my late twenties! Curmudgeon? You sir, are too kind to me! 
Neil Lock Added Sep 6, 2018 - 11:41am
Well said, Ward. A question you, and others here, might want to ask is - why are they doing these things to us? I think they know they're headed for the frozen berries. And they want to force us to stay in their sled until it crashes. Time to get out - mentally, even if we can't yet do it physically.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 6, 2018 - 11:46am
I have done it physically as well ... though my freedom has come at quite the cost ... and was actually through no effort on my part individually. However - I am looking for a way back into the game too! It is a very unique and trying quandary. 
 
As for the intention, I absolutely agree that it is very intentional and done with a set purpose in mind. However, that moves it up to the next level altogether and an even larger picture much too difficult and complex to include in a single article here and have very many people read through the entire thing. 
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 6, 2018 - 12:42pm
Ward, again I have to praise you for this article. Neil Lock has favored us with a set of essays which spells these ills out in their various contexts quite well. You've managed to synthesize much of it into one piece. Nicely done.
 
You, Neil and I , I believe, can agree that this could easily consume a sizable tome
Ward Tipton Added Sep 6, 2018 - 12:47pm
Has he posted them here? I guess I will have to look at his profile and search them out. Thank you for the reference. 
Neil Lock Added Sep 6, 2018 - 3:08pm
Heh, heh, thanks TBH. I once replied to Mr. Messano's order to me to "read five biographies of the Founders" by saying "read my Fifteen Articles on this site." He didn't respond.
 
Ward: My "serious" articles here all have titles beginning with the word "On." There are 15 so far. Enjoy. BTW, there's a sixteenth in preparation.
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 6, 2018 - 5:25pm
Ward, if I could write that in twenty minutes, I'd quit my day job. Nice article Ward. In my neck of the woods, the police did a nightime break down the door  no-knock search, and it turned out to be the wrong house. One of the occupants, not a resident, pointed a toy gun at the would-be intruders who didn't knock, and was instantly shot dead. Well, he lived a little while, a few minutes, anyway.
One of the participating police officers from another city was carrying a tape recorder, and instead of immediately surrendering it, asked his sergeant what he should do with it. Like his sergeant was a lawyer? Word got out that the tape existed, but not before the police department of the officer got hold of it. Long story short, the tape had been "doctored" as ruled by none less than the FBI. The local folks argued that it hadn't been, but I would believe the FBI before I would believe the locals. It was a mess all the way around, and an innocent person, later made to look guilty, lost his life. The evidence that was withheld, and later doctored, made the victim look guilty. Break down my door, or the door of any citizen, and you are asking for trouble. Break down a door and kill an innocent citizen, and you are a murderer, and should be tried as such. Just my opinion, mind you.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:17pm
I have always wondered why some people see it and others do not. In may days as an active public conspiracy theorist in Toronto I went to see a speaker, Michael Tsarion, I think it was.
He asked his audience of conspiracy theorists if they had ever been wronged in a significant way by government, all of us said we had.
I drew from this and other things an idea, this idea is that people can withstand insanity once in their lives, but cannot withstand it twice, and stand up the second time. Its a loss of innocence that opens ones eyes. I wonder what Ward or anyone else thinks of my pet theory.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:35pm
Neil re "Well said, Ward. A question you, and others here, might want to ask is - why are they doing these things to us? I think they know they're headed for the frozen berries. And they want to force us to stay in their sled until it crashes. Time to get out - mentally, even if we can't yet do it physically."
 They are doing a lot of psychological testing in police and military and to destroy the West, they must unleash the nihilists. "We shall unleash the nihilists" is a famous quote of Albert Pike.
 This is why Judaism is achieving such prominence in power politics and commerce. They are the quintessential nihilists, but there other other kinds that come from non Jewish backgrounds who do well in police/military.
 In truth, the "police" are a military organization occupying what was otherwise free territory.
opher goodwin Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:57pm
FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!! FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!! FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!!
WE HAVE A SITUATION!!!
THE CHILD IS TAKING OVER THE SITE!!!
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:49pm
Come on in off of the ledge Opher. Look at all the comments in all of the relative articles and threads.....look at the timeline....connect the dots....you're a smart guy. You'll figure it out :)
FacePalm Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:32pm
Ward-
The F&F warned us of many dangers we would face as a young Republic, from those who would control the money supply to those who run corporate entities, to those who would begin to erode our freedoms a little bit at a time(Jefferson in re: SCOTUS, to be precise).
 
You know my suggestion for a solution, but i'll reiterate it here for those not hip so far:
Arrests, trials, prosecutions, fines, jailtime, and a permanent ban upon any further public service for all sworn agents of gov't.  The charge?  Felony perjury, aka lying under oath, aka Oath-breaking.
 
i daresay that if these charges aren't as routinely filed as they are in courtrooms - and for the exact same reason, lying under oath - those bullies in gov't who've gotten away with their lawlessness for so long will simply continue - and grow worse.
 
And btw; a week or so ago, i sent you an email; did you get it?
Ward Tipton Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:02pm
I do not believe I received the email, but I still have very intermittent connections so I have a backlog. I will go through them as my connections allow today. 
 
Funny Opher, how you are so distrusting of government in some comment sections, yet so anxious in others to provide this same government that you mistrust run everything ... seems as if I may have read about that tendency somewhere. 
opher goodwin Added Sep 7, 2018 - 7:57am
Ward - my friend Tony died of a form of lung cancer from inhaling smoke in his own home (from his mother and two sisters) when he was growing up. It killed him forty years later.
I used to come home from gigs and the pub with my clothes stinking of smoke.
I'm glad they passed those laws.
Yes there is a compromise in life. I want individual freedom as much as is possible while taking others into account.
If we live with other people we have to find the right levels of compromise.
Society is a mass of people. We need rules and freedoms.
opher goodwin Added Sep 7, 2018 - 7:59am
Ward - I want responsible government. I recognise that we need the laws and restrictions and we need our freedoms protected.
We cannot live in such numbers without controls.
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 7, 2018 - 9:58am
Ward -  I'm, as you must already know, most inclined to agree with you. That comes as little surprise to you either, Opher :)  
 
This is a peculiar forum in that there is not much fertile ground for persuasion. We are, by and large I think, an older set. Our minds have been formed by our experience. Opher's experience is entirely different. He's possessed of no less mental faculty than any one else here. Knowing where he's from, the era in which he has lived, while I may not agree I entirely understand why he sees things as he does. 
 
Through the back and forth we find these occasions where we have some common ground. We're all grown ups here (with one notable exception) so we don't need safe spaces. We don't have to stay parked in that comfort zone of common ground. In the theater of ideas we are all best off when we know all the voices that are out there. Or, put another way, if you want to avoid cockroaches it does help to keep the lights on
Ward Tipton Added Sep 7, 2018 - 4:10pm
Opher, I also understand the need for governance, order and discipline, most notably in larger urban population centers. However, what is wrong with you having the freedom to open a bar that does not allow smoking while I have the freedom to open a bar that does? Has there ever been any such thing as "responsible government" in the known history of humanity? Compromise yes, but submission no. Laws that ticket illegal (even if not unlawful) activity while arresting people for lawful and legal activity are not reasonable. Back in the founding days of the US, there used to be allowances made for local governance ... thus, even a democracy would have been allowed at the level of the township. Unfortunately, those who crave power, seek to use the power they gain to gain more power ... and suppress even more. The very idea that the same laws that work in the inner cities will work in the more rural settings is frequently just madness ... though there are some of course that will ... such as egregious infringements on the rights of others. Likewise, I recognize that my vision of an "ideal libertarian" state would only work at the local level and even then only for a moral and just people. I make no pretenses about it  being an ideal solution that MUST be implemented at the national level, merely that by law it should be allowed at the level of the township. In short, I would much prefer to live in "dangerous freedom" as opposed to living in "safe slavery" as we do now, especially insofar as our slavery remains ... not all that safe when we have to deal with criminal elements among the people and from the government itself by and large, if not as a whole. 
Doug Plumb Added Sep 7, 2018 - 5:01pm
The nihilist wants top create the safe space just as the pig farmer wants his pigs comfortable in his pen. I should have put that in my previous posting. Comfort and safety are what most people want. Comfort corrupts (Rousseau, Plato and others)
Doug Plumb Added Sep 7, 2018 - 5:07pm
Facepalm: Pufendorf, a scholar of law, warns us of oaths, particularly in the unlawful kind so often taken today. I believe that oaths are fundamentally bad because occasionally, to be good, one must violate any oath. No oath is perfect, no law is perfect.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 7, 2018 - 6:23pm
Doug - As to "comfort corrupts" ... I think this barely begins to touch the problems with larger, more densely populated urban centers and many of the problems faced by society. I often note that the beginning of civilization was the beginning of the end of civilization but it remains true. People tend to become stuck in what I deem to be "Comfortable Ruts" and lose any incentive to ... evolve ... or to improve their personal situation. In short, they become complacent which is something Darwin has never favored in the process of natural selection. Again though, this only begins to touch the surface of such phenomena, not even scratching it. 
Utpal Patel Added Sep 8, 2018 - 4:00am
The very idea that the same laws that work in the inner cities will work in the more rural settings is frequently just madness
 
What would be an example of a law that works in an inner city but doesn’t work in a rural environment?  What would be an example of a law that works in a rural environment but doesn’t work in a city?
 
The way I see it society should be government by the same set of laws.  The size of the city, as well as many other factors, should not make one bit of difference. 
 
It is important to note that role of government in a city is often different than the role of government in the country.  In the city, the government should provide water, sewer and electricity.  In the country, much of that stuff is up to the individual land owners. 
Ward Tipton Added Sep 8, 2018 - 7:57am
Gun laws, traffic laws ... this is a multiple choice question is it not? Those two should get you started. 
 
A man who must protect his livestock from upwards of forty to fifty coyotes in a pack is going to have different needs for firearms than the person living in the inner city with neighbors on the other side of the wall. 
 
I daresay that the forty mile stretch of gravel road through to the nearest town from where I live, should not have the same requirements as the highways or even streets within the inner cities. Jaywalking? Seriously? 
 
Hopefully that demonstrates enough of a difference to get you started in just why a great many laws in the inner cities do not fit in the country. Or would you have me drive twenty miles in to a cell phone signal or twenty-five miles to the payphone to call the cops to send them to my mail box which is six miles from the house to fend off the coyotes from my livestock? I am doubting that would be very efficient ... especially in the winter months when the coyote attacks increase and the roads are substantially more hazardous ... but then again, the laws regulating the clearing and maintenance of the road are already different. 
Lindsay Wheeler Added Sep 8, 2018 - 8:54am
Good article Ward!  I applaud your excellent analysis!
 
But it goes back to what Ryan said, "Virtue".   You are right on the slippery slope, I too can't fathom the cigarette nonsense and then see them legitimize marijuanna!  I'm with you. What you are seeing is the lack of Common sense!  The ancient yeomen of America were farmers. It is from Nature that Common Sense arises---Not from the cities. There is no training in either Virtue or Common Sense. It is not "The Government" but the people in it!  And it starts in the Educational institutions. You complain, rightly, about what is going on but it isn't "The Government"---it is the people produced by our educational institutions!  
 
And then Doug Plumb is absolutely right "Unleash the Nihilists". The Tolerance and Diversity Enlightenment crap that was instituted by the FFofA in turn destroyed their creation!!!!!  As the Jews and Atheists, who are Nihilists, destroyed Christendom, in turn they have destroyed America. I refer you to the Frankfurt School that has had a HUGE, HUGE influence. When you can't control, have any discipline in the Schools---You get the government you deserve!  
 
It starts there Ward, Virtue, Common Sense from Nature, Control and Discipline. America has NONE of that. America is lost. Your slippery slope has now come its conclusion!
Ward Tipton Added Sep 8, 2018 - 9:00am
Farewell, farewell, to all my greatness. 
John Howard Added Sep 8, 2018 - 10:21am
Thanks for a fine summary, Mr. Ward Tipton.  Many of the comments here are interesting also.  Mr. Lindsay Wheeler tells us that the problem isn't government, but the educational establishment.  But that is owned and operated by the government.  Were they the ones who taught Mr. Wheeler that Atheists and Jews are Nihilists?
 
Here's my own summary:  government is evil; all of it, without exception. 
 
Civilization requires a few, good, permanent rules, not a parasitic ruling elite pumping out endless and ever-changing rules that apply to others and not themselves.  I see no hope until many people realize that there is no such thing as good governance; that governance, itself, is the problem.  The solution is liberty and equality under the law for every individual.  Government is inequality.
 
opher goodwin Added Sep 8, 2018 - 11:57am
Ward - the problem there is that it doesn't work. You have some clubs and bars that have smoking and some that don't but your friends are a mixture and there are gigs you want to go to. So you end up getting subjected to unwanted smoke.
It used to be that every club, meeting, restaurant and pub was full of smoke. Now it isn't. That is so much better.
The compromise should be that there is a room where smokers can go - not public spaces. How many meals were ruined by a smoker lighting up right next to me? How many barmen or waitresses died of cancer?
No - I am all in favour of sensible laws.
opher goodwin Added Sep 8, 2018 - 12:02pm
John - a good permanent King like King John of England - a cruel and evil man.
Most of all, John was shockingly cruel. In a chivalrous age, when aristocrats spared their enemies, capturing them rather than killing them, John preferred to do away with people by grisly means. On one occasion, for example, he ordered 22 captive knights to be taken to Corfe Castle in Dorset and starved to death. Another time he starved to death the wife and son of his former friend, William de Briouze. In 1203 he arranged the murder of his own nephew and rival for power, Arthur of Brittany.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/11671441/King-John-the-most-evil-monarch-in-Britains-history.html
John Howard Added Sep 8, 2018 - 12:08pm
opher goodwin,
 
What you want - on other people's property - is irrelevant.
 
I said permanent rule, not ruler.   Your reply is irrelevant. 
Doug Plumb Added Sep 8, 2018 - 4:38pm
re "Mr. Lindsay Wheeler tells us that the problem isn't government, but the educational establishment.  But that is owned and operated by the government.  Were they the ones who taught Mr. Wheeler that Atheists and Jews are Nihilists?"
 
You do not learn about this in public education. You have to be a serious reader of ethics and law to learn this.
 
John Howard Added Sep 8, 2018 - 5:17pm
I have dictionaries and can look up "nihilism".  There is nothing serious about Mr.  Wheeler's claim.  Neither Judaism nor atheism are related to nihilism.  
Doug Plumb Added Sep 8, 2018 - 5:28pm
re "Ward - the problem there is that it doesn't work. You have some clubs and bars that have smoking and some that don't but your friends are a mixture and there are gigs you want to go to. So you end up getting subjected to unwanted smoke.
It used to be that every club, meeting, restaurant and pub was full of smoke. Now it isn't. That is so much better.
The compromise should be that there is a room where smokers can go - not public spaces. How many meals were ruined by a smoker lighting up right next to me? How many barmen or waitresses died of cancer?
No - I am all in favour of sensible laws."
 
That's fine Opher, and I don't dissagree with this law fundamentally. I think its an expression of the common law. The point is that no law is ideal and there is a lot of controversy over the second hand smoke thing. It just got accepted as truth by the Blue Screen Of Truth. So a little error in this law, a little error in that one. Errors pile up, clog up court systems. And there is the fact of the motive behind the law. "Get them used to more laws to keep them safer". One day you don't even need a fence around the pigs to keep them in.
  Atheism requires that you put your faith in better men. A system lead by the better men will turn into a tyranny for the subjective wishes of these better men. All live in hell, the people, and the "better men". Happy people to not rape and torture, they are evil because they live in evil. You should read CS Lewis "The Last Men". Lewis was a luminary and a prof at Cambridge or Oxford. Not a stupid guy, wrote those childrens books. Not a waste of your time - if you read.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 8, 2018 - 10:42pm
How is it that we can push to legalize the smoking of marijuana while criminalizing tobacco? 
 
Marijuana has substantially higher levels of nicotine if I recall correctly? I believe a single joint (marijuana cigarette) has as much nicotine as an entire pack of regular cigarettes no? 
 
Again. If someone goes into their own home and smokes a joint, it is fully lawful if not legal. Why is the same courtesy not given to cigarette smokers? This is mere hypocrisy by changing standards of social norms as arbitrarily defined by an intrusive government. This is the force of law, not the rule of law. 
Doug Plumb Added Sep 9, 2018 - 8:29am
re "Marijuana has substantially higher levels of nicotine if I recall correctly? I believe a single joint (marijuana cigarette) has as much nicotine as an entire pack of regular cigarettes no? "
 
That is true, and what is far worse is that people add tobacco to their pot. I read a paper from the Mayo clinic on this, many years ago. Basically they said its far worse than either of the two. But Justin Trudeau has nice hair, so we get pot legalization. Who smokes pot? Blacks and Whites, not Arabs. Its a terrible drug for young people to get into. Its OK if you are working and want a little something to relax after work, if in extreme moderation, but kids now smoke it from morning to night and they do absolutely nothing else.
 

 
John Howard Added Sep 9, 2018 - 9:38am
Marijuana does not contain nicotine, is not addictive, and has been shown to be of therapeutic value in treating cancer.  
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 9, 2018 - 12:10pm
Bigger harm from smoking green over tobacco is higher tar. If you find nicotine in your bud then you better check your dealers scales too.
 
And Doug, yes there are cases of the extremes that it is fair to categorize as abuse. This again comes to a people problem, not a drug problem. Were it not marijuana these same people would idle their time under some other head trip
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 9, 2018 - 12:14pm
the first rule of doing business in a pharmo-anarchy regime is never underestimate your customer. do not assume that because they are stoners that they do not understand simple ecomomics. there is competition in every market unregulated by the government
John Howard Added Sep 9, 2018 - 12:54pm
Never underestimate a stoner. 
 
Katharine Otto Added Sep 9, 2018 - 10:00pm
Good article, Ward.  It occurs to me that the federal government has a monopoly that it jealously protects.  The original Constitution deferred to the states everything not explicitly claimed by the federal government, but there were lots of gray areas that nobody claimed, at first.  Of course, the central bank was a point of contention.  But there is nothing in the Constitution about health care, including drug laws.  Nor was there anything authorizing the federal government to legislate morality.  
 
The "slippery slope" seems to me to be more like a tidal wave.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 9, 2018 - 11:23pm
An avalanche often begins with a pebble. The proverbial (and literal?) snowball effect? Why does nobody seem to be looking where it will end though? 
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 10, 2018 - 2:31am
It will not end until Washington is deconstructed, either piece by piece or in one fell swoop. Either way suits me
Ward Tipton Added Sep 10, 2018 - 9:14am
I have often said if we do not take our nation back seat by seat, we will have to take it back street by street.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 10, 2018 - 11:20am
  These laws are being written because they start out as bills. We are owned and the owners want more control, they do it with laws.
  Personally I think they are waiting for the singularity in AI, shortly after that - within months, robots will have built robots to replace us all and we will not live long afterwards.
  All the wars have financed unbelievable growth and faith in technology, we are now almost defined by it and measure our intelligence by our ability to understand and create it.
FacePalm Added Sep 10, 2018 - 8:11pm
Doug Plumb-
Christ preceded Pufendorf by a few years, and He says that His disciples are not to swear "at all."  Yet alleged "christians" fill out their IRS paperwork every year, and sign right under the line which says "i swear under penalty of perjury that all of the foregoing is true and correct," then they go register to vote and swear under penalty of perjury that they are US citizens(in ignorance not knowing the difference between an American National and a Federal citizen), and go to courts raising their right hands all the time.  This is one of the many reasons i refer to myself as a disciple of Christ, but no "christian."
 
John Howard-
You wrote:
Civilization requires a few, good, permanent rules, not a parasitic ruling elite pumping out endless and ever-changing rules that apply to others and not themselves.  I see no hope until many people realize that there is no such thing as good governance; that governance, itself, is the problem.  The solution is liberty and equality under the law for every individual.  Government is inequality.
 
Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Paine, Henry, Franklin, Adams, even Hancock and maybe even Hamilton all agreed that human governance is evil; Paine went so far as to say "the trade of governing has always attracted the most rascally members of mankind."
 
When one breaks down the word "government" into "govern" and "ment," one can begin to see the problem: the "govern" part means  "to rule or control," and the "ment" part refers to "mentation," or thinking - so the REAL meaning of government is "mind-control."  This is why America was designed as an experiment in SELF-governance, for that is the best kind of mind control there can be.  All else would be tyranny, of varying degrees.
 
Unfortunately, teaching the principles of self-governance(and the consequences for failing to do so) fell out of favor subsequent to the War for State's Rights; from then on, the "teaching" seemed to always have an underlying assumption of "obedience to authority" instead of "you created the government, are responsible to watch it carefully, and your Public Servants are required to obey YOU," which obviously didn't work for the aforementioned public servants; very much like Dickens' character Uriah Heep, the servant became the master while we slept and foolishly trusted.  The tyranny of Reconstruction was certainly no help in re: a servant government, either, but definitely reinforced the notion that the People were to "obey authority."
 
It is my opinion that things certainly do not have to STAY thisaway; all it takes is a minority "keen to set brushfires of freedom" in the minds of Americans, recall to them their Duty to oversee their sworn agents, and hold them to account for their disobedience to their Oaths of Office...my preference would be Perjury trials followed by fines equivalent to the entirety of the amount of salary and benefits given them, backdated to the first provable instance of their Betrayal of the Public Trust, followed by a prison term not to exceed ten years, with the coup de grace: a permanent ban upon any further employment for any government or government-type agency in America again - not State, not County, not Federal, nothing. 
 
i believe that just THREE well-publicized convictions of this nature would "revolutionize"(so to speak) the spirit of service and obedience on the part of sworn gov't agents relatively overnight.
 
 
FacePalm Added Sep 10, 2018 - 8:14pm
Ward-
Nice take.  Even so, i prefer JFK's version(or maybe his anonymous speechwriter): "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable."
 
vis. Venezuela, soon, i expect.
Katharine Otto Added Sep 10, 2018 - 9:26pm
Ward,
It will end where slippery slopes and avalanches end:  at the bottom.  Now, how one defines "bottom" is a matter of opinion.  I would like to see a voter-citizen-taxpayer push to rein in federal deficit spending.  It could be a campaign question, that would force all candidates to think (presumably they are able), along non-partisan lines.  "How would you eliminate federal deficit spending?"  Many people don't even know the difference between the debt and the deficit.
 
My contention is the federal government needs to be fiscally responsible if it expects citizens to do it.  
 
Also, to add to my previous comment, there is nothing in the Constitution about education, yet compulsory education accounts for up to half of local and state budgets and a sizable percentage of the federal budget.  I'm beginning to wonder if compulsory education is a good use of tax dollars.
FacePalm Added Sep 10, 2018 - 10:41pm
Compulsory education is good, Katherine, i would opine; compulsory government-mandated "schooling" is nowhere near the same thing...for as has often been said, "the lessons of the classroom today will be the government of tomorrow" and "it's bet to commence tyranny in nursery school."
 
i would not mind these wonks at the Unconstitutional Dept. of Education setting particular standards for home-schoolers to pass, say K-6, middle school, and high school, as historically, the homeschooled blast right through those with ease.  Once those milestones/basics were realized(e.g. G.E.D.-worthy as a minimum, maximum to the stars), a real EDUCATION could be initiated.
 
Government schools will only teach that government is wonderful...among other lessons of obedience to authority.
John Howard Added Sep 11, 2018 - 7:39am
Ron Paul had the right plan:  end the IRS and the FED.  The lifeblood of the organized crime gang called the Federal Government is made up of an extortion racket and a counterfeiting racket.  They are parasites, not patriots.  
 
Not much will change until a sizable percentage of the people see that he is right, but for some strange reason, his view is not taught in the government schools or heard on the government-licensed networks. 
 
Most frustrating for me are those who write like this (I mock):  "Yes, Yes, we certainly need a lot less government and a lot less waste in government and honest politicians, so that we can better feed, cloth, house, educate and entertain everyone from cradle to grave and eliminate all bad feelings and danger and effort and inequality from everyone's life."
Ward Tipton Added Sep 11, 2018 - 10:48am
What really confuses me, is all these statists who freely admit to not trusting the government ... yet demand that the very same government that they do not trust, be the one with all the guns and the power and the authority to make decisions. 
 
ARH???
Ward Tipton Added Sep 11, 2018 - 10:48am
I never could figure out why Ron Paul was ignored so much ... well other than the obvious fact that he was an outsider and not part of the Swamp. 
John Howard Added Sep 11, 2018 - 10:59am
Ward, you would ignore him also if he was proposing that your heart be stopped.
Katharine Otto Added Sep 11, 2018 - 3:23pm
FacePalm,
Along these lines, I've started asking adults what they believe was most valuable about their education.  A retired civil engineer harked back to his 7th grade industrial arts teacher (public school) who encouraged him to go into engineering, because he could always find a job.  The idea of industrial arts classes remains good, but where are they now?  This friend is from Bethlehem, PA, and Bethlehem Steel was a local major employer and may have guaranteed jobs to graduates. 
 
A woman friend said she best remembers learning to think in graduate school.  Before then, she had coasted through school, even though she was always an avid reader.  We also discussed reading and writing and the fact that they require different skills.  Reading is is receptive, and writing is expressive.  Writing requires the ability to put thoughts together in a coherent way, so thinking is required.
 
Anyone who wants to improve education would do well to remember their own and what they felt was most valuable for them.
 
John Howard and Ward,
I've always been a great fan of Ron Paul and actually met him at the 2004 Libertarian convention.  I've read several of his books, including End the Fed.  I agree the Fed and income tax are great Ponzi schemes that turned American values upside down.  I think that's the single biggest driver of deficit spending.  I hoped Rand Paul would continue to carry the torch, but he has disappointed me so far.
 
Ward,
I've been thinking that there's a general idea that government's main job is to take care of everybody, like parents, but for life.  Unfortunately, the government functions like overly indulgent, rich,  enabler parents, who try to buy love instead of setting reasonable boundaries.  So we have a nation of spoiled rotten brats who feel entitled but not responsible for the goodies they claim.
 
Ward Tipton Added Sep 11, 2018 - 8:56pm
That is certainly an interesting perspective regarding governance, though I think it may perhaps be lacking in certain issues. I think most would agree that governance is about control of the lives of the people ... ruling over them rather than serving them. I still cannot help but believe that government has intentionally created a dependency class merely for the sake of class division and added strife between the flesh and blood men and women of our nation. I think government is all about dividing us and keeping us arguing about largely inconsequential matters so that they can further strengthen their grasp and laud over us as our masters. 
 
The spoiled rotten brats is certainly true, but no matter how I try to analyze it, it does appear to be most intentional and not in any way a mere byproduct or happenstance. Either the world leaders are blind to their jobs or they have done this intentionally ... neither of which is very comforting. 
Doug Plumb Added Sep 13, 2018 - 6:32am
You have a government who's body serves two masters. The people actually demand that the Fed be served, the Fed (Jewish Banks) operates against the "public interest" - the real public interest and works for the public that is interested in getting the debt paid down even though it is not real.
  No one can serve two masters. No politician can serve the Jewish banks and the interest of non Jews.
  The public that consists of a professional class who manage their own perceptions. Censorship is not required for those who will turn away from dark corners of reality. Many are simply incapable of looking at truly unbiased and truthful news. If you want to find out how many friends you have, go around saying that the holocaust was a great big fat lie. Good friends will shut you out for this rather than discuss or debate it. This is mind control high tech style MK-Ultra, the universities probably engineered this in secret and no one has access to this possibly classified technology. Maybe something is in the water, if it is, we are not allowed to find out in Canada.
  You have a class of Lefties, who have had no education in real critical thought, they often hold two contradictory opinions and believe they are both educated and reasonable. They do not read anything that is not recommended or praised by their in group.
 
  The problem is not government, its the seven deadly sins that have now become virtues. The highest virtue now is comfort seeking and cowardice, lust, greed and gluttony not far behind. Imagine working at Apple and saying the holocaust was faked. It would make people uncomfortable, and making someone uncomfortable is against the new unwritten code.
  Its all about the destruction of reason and the creation of a new statutory religion - holocaustianity. We need to develop the courage and wisdom to take these goggles off so we can look at reality.
  Government is necessary, running the country on Jewish money isn't necessary.
 
Doug Plumb Added Sep 13, 2018 - 6:40am
The problem with socialism is: What would most people do with their time?  Humanity would die a quick death from playing video games, drinking and using drugs. The class that keeps the lights on wouldn't tolerate it. We need a re-engineered culture so we can accept socialism, it is inevitable with continuous technological revolution. A robot that can do YOUR job is inevitable.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 13, 2018 - 7:25am
What really confuses me, is all these statists who freely admit to not trusting the government ... yet demand that the very same government that they do not trust, be the one with all the guns and the power and the authority to make decisions. 
 
Yep. 
 
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 13, 2018 - 7:30am
It will not end until Washington is deconstructed, either piece by piece or in one fell swoop. Either way suits me
 
Me too. Sooner rather than later please. 
John Howard Added Sep 13, 2018 - 10:01am
Mr. Plumb writes,
 
"Government is necessary, running the country on Jewish money isn't necessary."
 
Government is not necessary.  It is organized crime and must be by its very nature.
 
The fact that some criminals are Jewish is irrelevant.   I agree that modern banking is a criminal racket and that many of the racketeers are Jewish, but to point that out is to smear Jews in general, many of whom are on your side philosophically.  The very best critic of the FED (in my ever humble opinion) was Murray Rothbard, a very Jewish guy.  That culture has given us some of the worst and also some of the best among us.
 
And it isn't "Jewish money".  It's counterfeit government money.
John Howard Added Sep 13, 2018 - 10:11am
It will not end until Washington is deconstructed, either piece by piece or in one fell swoop. Either way suits me
 
It is best when that which appeared by small steps disappears by small steps.  Revolution is violent and those that make changes by violence are always inclined (throughout history) to maintain their new regime with new violence.
 
What is needed is the elimination of violence by convincing ever more people that violence (government) is the problem, not the solution.  Convincing is a slow evolutionary process, not a rapid revolutionary overthrow of the established order. 
 
The big problem is convincing constitutionalists that if you don't like the oak tree, you should not be trying to return to the acorn.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 13, 2018 - 5:44pm
re "The very best critic of the FED (in my ever humble opinion) was Murray Rothbard, a very Jewish guy.  That culture has given us some of the worst and also some of the best among us.
 
And it isn't "Jewish money".  It's counterfeit government money."
 
  It is in fact Jewish money (all owners of Fed are Jewish) and what we are experiencing is a slow destruction of reason, the thing that they hate and its why they killed Christ. This is not in fact government money. Jews HATE the common law. We are experiencing a slow transition to Talmudic law. When this becomes overt and not covert, a lot of people will hate themselves. I won't be one of them.
  I agree that many Jews are on our side. Many of the best on our side are in fact Jews. But Rothbard and his anarchy isn't one of them - leading people down a garden path that is both ridiculous and will lead no where. Anarchy is for the stupid.
 
John Howard Added Sep 14, 2018 - 1:27pm
American money is not "in fact" Jewish money, no matter how many Jews "own" the FED. It is government that allows the FED to monopolize money creation. It is government guns that rule the FED and congress can reel them in whenever they wish, but the FED is the one supplying the counterfeit paper money with which the government loots the world. To own means to control. Government controls the FED.
 
I said Rothbard was the best critic of the FED. You change the subject to his advocacy of anarchy and imply that he is stupid. That's a stupid way to debate. He remains the best critic of the FED.
 
Anarchy is a subject for another thread and I would defend Rothbard's views since Government is so obviously destructive, dishonest and immoral. It is an easy debate. You'd lose.
 
Speaking of stupid, blaming Jews alive today for the mythical death of your nailed up deity over two thousand years ago is way past stupid. It's such an ugly, cruel, unforgiving remark that I must conclude that you are a true Christian.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 15, 2018 - 1:58pm
re "American money is not "in fact" Jewish money, no matter how many Jews "own" the FED. It is government that allows the FED to monopolize money creation. It is government guns that rule the FED and congress can reel them in whenever they wish, but the FED is the one supplying the counterfeit paper money with which the government loots the world. To own means to control. Government controls the FED."
 
The Fed is a corporation that acts outside the authority of the US Government (Alan Greenspan). The US Government has authority over domestic policy only. The foreign occupations are on behalf of the Fed (John Perkins and many others). Murray Rothbard is not going to tell you that.
 
re "Anarchy is a subject for another thread and I would defend Rothbard's views since Government is so obviously destructive, dishonest and immoral. It is an easy debate. You'd lose."
 
You would lose badly. I would have common sense and 2000 years of law to back me up. You would have Murray Rothbard and a bunch of hippie pot heads on your side. Lets do it. I've got the time.
 
re "Speaking of stupid, blaming Jews alive today for the mythical death of your nailed up deity over two thousand years ago is way past stupid. It's such an ugly, cruel, unforgiving remark that I must conclude that you are a true Christian."
 
I'm not a holocaustianity Christian or church Christian, so here you are right. I am a true Christian. Jews have been at war with reason since the dawn of time, been kicked out of more than one hundred countries, not for their religious practices but for their economic and social practices.
 
Doug Plumb Added Sep 15, 2018 - 1:59pm
Alan Greenspan says it on Youtube. You can easily find the link.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 15, 2018 - 2:11pm
Your views on anarchy add up to pure Equity. Equity was first brought into realm as an entity by the satanist JS Mills and Jeremy Bentham, who says it is of the devil but necessary for public opinion of the courts. Anyone who has read Jurisprudence knows the public is far worse than the courts in deciding matters of the law - and always will be. You want a sick and cruel system? you let the public run the courts.
 
Re Jews: Just because something isn't nice doesn't mean it isn't true. You probably don't know that Jews consider themselves God's Chosen people and believe they should rule the earth. They are the supreme of the supremists.
John Howard Added Sep 15, 2018 - 2:25pm
My views on anarchy do not mention equity, pure or otherwise, Sigmund, but you go ahead and tell us all about what I think.  Equity has several definitions, one being justice.  Is that the one you object to as being of the devil?
 
Oh yes, and tell us what all Jews think too.  I love psychobabble.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 16, 2018 - 7:36am
You should find out what Jews think for yourself, not from me. Its widely available for those who wish to know and can handle it. There are Talmudic quotes as well as copies of the Talmud available for download. Talmud is Jewish law.The first world environmental meeting in Brazil back in the 90's was recorded secretly and that tape leaked: (paraphrased) Maurice Strong "Rights ? By the time we are finished you will not have the rights of a tree".
  What Jewish people think is a lot like what you and I think. Plenty know more and warn us. But Jewish law thinks of non Jews, not as animals, but more along the lines of rocks and trees, having no agency and therefore no rights. Our culture is being shaped to make us act like animals so that we are more deserving of our fate - that's my belief and I don't often state my own beliefs.
  Jews are the lawyers and bankers, and in case you didn't know, these professions are dominated by Jewish people who probably know about as much about their religion as you probably know about original sin.
  Equity can have as many definitions as you want, it can be defined in a variety of ways. It is the "will and wants of the people". To understand it you have to read law. I would suggest Bentham writings on it as well as Mills. The danger in equity is that is can be defined many ways to suit the PTB.
  Read as much history, or how to be nice,  and popular psycobabble as you want but the world runs by law whether you like it or not. Law does not come from thin air, it comes from holy books, whether you like or acknowledge that or not.
  Truth is truth, its not always nice and it is certainly not dependent in any way on your ability to handle it or deal with it in any way. "Truth? You can't handle the truth!" - Jack Nickolas in a famous movie (forget the name but everyone has heard it).
 
re "My views on anarchy do not mention equity, pure or otherwise"
 
Then what kind of law do you think anarchy would run on. Despite what people say, even under anarchy someone will steal someone else's goat and the anarchists are going to have to figure a way to deal with that. The common law is antithetical to anarchy, so what do you think would happen?
Doug Plumb Added Sep 16, 2018 - 7:57am
Before the web, the knowledge of how Jews treat Christians when they are in power was available, see Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "Gulag Archipeligo" or his Harvard Address .
John Howard Added Sep 16, 2018 - 8:50am
I will not debate about anarchy in this thread. When I use the term "anarchy", it does not mean "no rules"; it means "no rulers", so your comments do not apply to my understanding of the term.
 
When you write that "Equity can have as many definitions as you want, it can be defined in a variety of ways", this tells me that you will win all debates with me since I am limited to the dictionary.
 
I do not really disagree with your generalizations about the Jewish culture. It is chauvinistic, collectivist, and authoritarian. But there are non-Jews who share those faults and Jews who do not share those faults. Therefore it is unjust to criticize "Jews" when, to be accurate, on should simply criticize chauvinistic, collectivist authoritarians.  That someone is Jewish is irrelevant and lumps the innocent with the guilty.
 
As an atheist convinced that religion is not innocuous, but rather actively harmful, I am opposed to all religious culture, but I still recognize that most individuals are harmless, in spite of their superstitions, at least until they enter a voting booth. Once in the voting booth, most - Jews and Non-Jews alike - are chauvinistic, collectivist, authoritarians. Those qualities are the enemies of liberty and reason, not "Jews".
Doug Plumb Added Sep 16, 2018 - 1:21pm
I have fully defined what I mean by Jews vs the Jewish people. This discussion is more important than being nice. I'm not walking on the eggshells created by our rulers to stifle this discussion. Many of the Jewish people agree with me, but you won't be hearing from them on the Jewish media.
  Religion is the glue that binds society, and it has been the goal of our rulers to erase or or to convince everyone of your beliefs. If you knew Christianity and the law, you would feel differently. Its obvious from your writings that you are not familiar with law, no anarchist would be an anarchist if he or she was.
  As for the anarchist version of law, I suppose what happens when someone steals someone else's goat it will matter very much who the someone is that had their goat stolen and who the someone is that stole it, as well as who sits at the judges desk. Very dangerous and it's something Justinian law dealt with. Despite criticisms based on misunderstanding, Justinian law was an increase in knowledge and technology of law, in the place where, for a thousand years, all the smart people went to study laws.
  I can't imagine that Rothbard is actually smarter than the Catholics, the Scholastics, the ancient Chinese and the Greeks, and 2000 years of effort to develop the common law.
  The Western system of government is a culmination of that history, but its freedom of association and its secret societies have lead us to a point where our legislators serve two masters and are thus required to eat from the tree of knowledge and mix water with wine, as Kant said it would. The bible tells us to stay away from the people who mix water with wine and eat from the tree of knowledge.
  The common view, and your view that all government is bad is based on contemporary thinking and contemporary observations made in a purposely created corrupt environment.
  The Jewish God is the fallen angel, Lucifer, who is the empirical God of the planet. His followers have the reasoned part of their consciousness blended into mush because Luciferianism is purely empirical.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 16, 2018 - 1:26pm
re "As an atheist convinced that religion is not innocuous, but rather actively harmful,"
 
Of all the religions, atheism is the most harmful. Just last century millions were tortured in ways the go far beyond a conventional imagination regarding what torture could be and how long it could last, at its very worst, far beyond suffocating in gas chambers for minutes. The minimum total number of deaths, just last century from atheism is well over 100 million people.
Atheism is as much of a religion as any other. Any religion that is not Christianity is the goal of our rulers, anything statutory is good for them. The one religion that is based soley on reason is very bad, and they, the Christians have always been the most persecuted people on this earth.
John Howard Added Sep 16, 2018 - 2:04pm
Mind reading and word-gaming continue to be your main tools of debate.  Both are fraudulent.  Atheism has a definition.  Reason has a definition.  Atheism is not a religion.  Christianity is not based on reason.  Your absurd presumption that anyone who dares to disagree with your nonsense is ignorant, is nothing more than wishful thinking.  Atheism did not cause millions of deaths.  The lack of a belief cannot be the cause of a political movement.  Altruism and collectivism were the causes.
 
And yes, Rothbard is actually smarter than the Catholics, the Scholastics, the ancient Chinese and the Greeks, and 2000 years of effort to develop the common law.  The mess the world is in is the direct result of faith and force and altruism and the silly worship of intellectual tradition, which for over 2000 years has pushed faith, force, collectivism, and altruism.  The necessary result is sadism and totalitarianism.

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