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My, Donald Trump is having an interesting week.  First came the news that journalist Bob Woodward will release a book called Fear: Trump in the White House then came the op-ed piece in the New York Times.  The piece in the New York Times is particularly troubling because an anonymous source inside Trump's administration wrote it.  This lack of loyalty must gall Trump to no end, plus the fact that Woodward spoke to sources inside Trump's government must leave him the impression that he can't trust anyone.

 

First, the book written by Woodward.  The book is not out yet but descriptions of the book detail chaos inside the White House, with interviews revealing frustration with Trump's behavior along with alarm over his ignorance and lying.  People like Kelly called Trump an "idiot" and "unhinged.".  Mattis reportedly described Trump as having the understanding of a fifth or sixth grader.  Trump's former personal attorney called Trump a " fucking liar. "  There is a scene where Trump's former Chief Economic Advisor Gary Cohn removed a  draft letter from Trump's desk that he didn't want Trump to see due to its national security implications.  There is this recurring theme of trying to protect the country from Trump.

 

Next is the op-ed piece.  The New York Times published this anonymously but they know who the author is.  The author calls themselves (gender neutral) a part of the resistance inside Trump's administration that are working to frustrate aspects of the  president's agenda they consider damaging to the country.  The author does make clear there are parts of his agenda they agree with.  They make pains to separate themselves from the left in this respect.  

 

What the author makes clear is that while they are in sync with the president on many things they cannot agree to anything they feel is damaging to the country.  They feel the most dangerous aspect of Trump's persona is his "amorality."  They believe he lacks principles that would provide a guide to his decision making and this includes any allegiance to what they believe are the founding principles of  conservatism.  This includes "free minds, free markets and free people."  They believe it is dangerous to call the press "enemies of the people" and believe his impulses are anti-trade and anti-democratic.  They then go on to list successes but state these are due in spite of and not because of Trump.

 

The author then goes on to describe the presidency as a "two-track presidency."  The author uses foreign policy as an example, citing Trump's fondness for dictators as a major concern along with his disdain of historic allies.  His administration essentially works against his wishes in this matter, making sure that sanctions stay in place and punishment meted out (the author uses Russia as an example.

 

The author concludes by saying this isn't the work of a deep state but a steady one and makes calls for unity.  The author cites the example of the late John McCain as a way to build bridges and reminds us that we are all Americans.

 

Now, you would think all of this shit storm surrounding the president would make this liberal crow with delight and say " Neener neener!! " to all of our resident Trumplings.

 

Instead I say "Meh."

 

 Look, the reality is this is hardly news.  This stuff leaked out of the White House early on that the administration was essentially babysitting a giant, orange toddler.  With toddlers come extra responsibilities like making sure they don't stick their fingers in light sockets or bash themselves over the head with their sippy cup.  That is essentially Donald Trump.  The Trump staff needs to watch him to make sure he doesn't stick his pen in his eye or swallow quarters but in addition to that they need to watch him to make sure he doesn't nuke Germany or send the nuclear football to Putin as a Valentine's Day gift.

 

Imagine this scenario:

 

Trump accidentally nukes Uganda while spilling his Diet Coke on his desk at the White House.

 

John Kelly:

 "Goddamnit, John (Bolton)!!!!!!  I told you that we only allow child proof cups around the president!!!!  Weren't you watching him?????"

 

 John Bolton:

 "It wasn't my turn to watch him, it's Kellyanne's turn!!!!  I watched him yesterday and I told everyone today is the day I groom my mustache!!!!"

 

Kellyanne Conway:

 "I'm sorry, OK!!!   He wanted microwave popcorn and you know he always burns it even though we plainly marked the button that says "Popcorn" on the microwave!!!  You know when he tries to make it himself he burns the shit out of it and it takes a week to get the smell out of the kitchen!!!!! "

 

Donald Trump:

 "I want Stormy Daniels and a cookie!!!!"

 

 Kellyanne Conway:

 "Sssshhhh, honey, the adults are trying to talk and we told you that porn stars are off limits until you leave office.  Also you can't have a cookie until you eat dinner."

 

 Donald Trump:

 "Wah!!!!!!"

 

 John Kelly:

 "Kellyanne, I told you no more popcorn!!!!  All he does is stick the kernels up his nose and play with the bag!!!"

 

  And so on.....

 

Look, none of this stuff matters.  The Republicans in the Congress and Senate lack spines to do anything about him and Trumplings don't give a shit.  There is also the added bonus that Trump signed the tax bill (AKA welfare for really rich people and Republican donors) and can tip the Supreme Court conservative for the next 2-3 decades.  Because the American public collectively has very poor memories by that time everyone will forget the cluster fuck that was the Trump presidency and elect another Republican who will do the same.

 

And on and on it will go.....

 

So this is why I don't really care.  The reality is nothing can be done about this, we all need to hope we make it through to 2020.

 

Comments

Stone-Eater Added Sep 6, 2018 - 2:52pm
Hm......Trump is not the problem seen from here. The problem are people like Bolton, Pompeo or even Pence. If they can talk Dump into nuking some spot he'll do it. If not, he'll simply chat with Putin, Duterte, Macron and Ferkel and enjoys the spotlight. The apprentice gotten bigger, that's all.
 
Or the army can stop them. These guys know what's at stake. Like Wesley Clark or others which were on the ground in war. I'm sure that this Bolton pig never ever fought more than a schoolyard battle.
Dino Manalis Added Sep 6, 2018 - 2:53pm
 It's embarrassing, but no illegality has emerged.  Trump is unpresidential and his supporters like it that way.  Instead of crying for impeachment, Democrats should show some responsibility and work with the administration to deal with our many problems.
Ken Added Sep 6, 2018 - 2:58pm
Of course, almost all of the excerpts in Woodward's book have been denied by the people who were supposed to have made them.  This is like Omarossa's book or the book that came out a couple of months ago.  a bunch of tripe that may have some sliver of truth in it somewhere, but is basically just more of the ongoing "Trump outrage of the week" campaign that will fizzle when the next one comes up.  Anything they can do to keep him on the defensive and prevent him from governing.
 
As to the op-ed see above, plus if it is true (which doesn't seem very likely), then the person who wrote it should resign and come forward.  The voters elected Trump.  If this is really going on, the voters should know the basis for the allegations so they can make an informed decision the next time.
 
It just seems more designed to help the democrats in the midterms, then bolster the case for the incoming articles of impeachment if they gain control of the house.
 
Whoever wrote it is clearly self-interested.  Whenever they are revealed, they will be a celebrated hero on the left with a lucrative book deal and gofundme golden parachute set up for them.
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 6, 2018 - 3:08pm
Jeffrey,
 
The Woodward should be interesting, but it will fall into the tub of the usual stuff, despite his reputation. As Trump said, "so another bad book"
 
However,
re:" The piece in the New York Times is particularly troubling because an anonymous source inside Trump's administration wrote it. "
 Are you sure about that?
 
I think the reason it is troubling is the NYT relationship with the CIA and this being a  possible attack on Trump that is much more than
an anonymous source. Moreover, this very will could be a very good false flag that can be used to clamp down on the media 
and to ramp up an attack on the deep state.
 
You may be right about meh, but Im not so sure.  
 
Mustafa
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 6, 2018 - 3:23pm
and all the whos down in whoville all cried boo hoo
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 3:42pm
@Ken:
”Of course, almost all of the excerpts in Woodward's book have been denied by the people who were supposed to have made them.”
 
Of course they would be, Ken.  It would be insane not to.
 
“This is like Omarossa's book or the book that came out a couple of months ago.  a bunch of tripe that may have some sliver of truth in it somewhere, but is basically just more of the ongoing "Trump outrage of the week" campaign that will fizzle when the next one comes up.  Anything they can do to keep him on the defensive and prevent him from governing.”
 
Woodward is a respected author who writes on all presidents, not just Republicans.  No one I know of has ever accused him of being unfair.
 
“As to the op-ed see above, plus if it is true (which doesn't seem very likely),”
 
Oh, very likely because the NYT is setting themselves up for the mother of all shit storms if someone just made this up.  The NYT needs to protect themselves which is why this is very true.  Plus, there is nothing contradictory about anything, everyone who is leaking information is basically saying the same thing.
 
“then the person who wrote it should resign and come forward.”
 
Why?  Their motivation is to stay in and fight Trump’s worst impulses.  
 
“The voters elected Trump.  If this is really going on, the voters should know the basis for the allegations so they can make an informed decision the next time.”
 
Technically the electoral college, he lost the actual vote.  But the thing is everyone knew Trump was a scumbag and a lot of people voted for him anyway.
 
“It just seems more designed to help the democrats in the midterms, then bolster the case for the incoming articles of impeachment if they gain control of the house.”
 
I don’t think they need any help.  But the reality is that Trumplings will stay with Trump long past the point of insanity.  Those who were going to vote Republican will already do so.
 
“Whoever wrote it is clearly self-interested.”
 
Sure.  There are certainly professional and personal reasons for what they did.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 3:42pm
@TBH:
That’s nice.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 3:45pm
@Mustafa:

 “The Woodward should be interesting, but it will fall into the tub of the usual stuff, despite his reputation. As Trump said, "so another bad book"”
 
I don’t think so, primarily due to his reputation.  I may buy it and that’s not really my type of book.
 
“However,
re:" The piece in the New York Times is particularly troubling because an anonymous source inside Trump's administration wrote it. "
 Are you sure about that?”
 
Yes.
 
“I think the reason it is troubling is the NYT relationship with the CIA and this being a  possible attack on Trump that is much more than
an anonymous source. Moreover, this very will could be a very good false flag that can be used to clamp down on the media 
and to ramp up an attack on the deep state.”
 
That seems like a rather conspiracy theoryish thing to say.  The NYT knows who wrote it.
 
TBH my first thought paralleled yours but the fact that the NYT would know the identity made me reconsider.
 

Katharine Otto Added Sep 6, 2018 - 3:46pm
Jeffrey,
The NYT is infamous for quoting anonymous sources.  For the NYT to publish an anonymous op-ed is highly irresponsible and justifies Trump's referring to it as "the failing New York Times." 
 
The NYT is almost comical in its rabid abhorrence of Trump and is doing a lot to undermine its own credibility. 
 
And I'm not even a Trumpling.  I've adopted a "wait-and-see" attitude to all of it. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 3:47pm
Katherine, this isn’t a single quote.  This was an article.  And it isn’t telling us anything we didn’t know.
Ken Added Sep 6, 2018 - 3:53pm
Woodward is a respected author who writes on all presidents, not just Republicans.  No one I know of has ever accused him of being unfair.
 
Actually he isn't that respected and is considered a partisan hack.  It has been widely discussed that Bernstein was the brains behind uncovering Watergate (well, and the information from the deputy director of the FBI who hated Nixon), not woodward
 
Why?  Their motivation is to stay in and fight Trump’s worst impulses.  
 
Why?  Because they aren't elected representatives of the people.No president in  history has ever taken all of the advice from even his most trusted advisors.  Once the president makes a decision it is the advisors job to execute it.  If they don't like it, then resign.  It is not the unelected advisors job to make policy.
 
Technically the electoral college, he lost the actual vote.
 
That's just silly parsing and irrelevant, you know what I meant, and who do you think votes on the electors?
 
I don’t think they need any help
 
You are about the only one then.  This is going to be a very close election either way, and the only thing they have come up to run on is impeach trump, raise taxes
 
There are certainly professional and personal reasons for what they did.
 
Well, that defeats the whole premise of "for the good of the country" then, doesn't it? 
 
There is no credibility in an anonymous op-ed.  The NYT has written fiction before.  Heck, they won a Pulitzer for covering up the Stalin famine genocide and then they followed that up by covering up the Holocaust.  Even in the recent past they have put out fictional pieces claiming to be news on a fairly regular basis as long as it fits their agenda.
 
This piece clearly fits their agenda
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 6, 2018 - 4:00pm
Trump is doing fine as he identifies major problems and people in our government and points the finger directly at them. He is ruining the careers of lots of far left-wing operatives  who infest the government or media. Some will get jail terms. 
 
Something wrong with calling Hillary a crook?
 
Something wrong with taking out the trash at the FBI and DOJ?
 
And, yes, the NYT  is little more than a tabloid for the radical left. 
 
Our President has a lot more to do at the expense of the left and their criminal allies. 
 
Bare and Grin it.
Katharine Otto Added Sep 6, 2018 - 4:10pm
Jeffrey,
I know what an op-ed is, and that makes the NYT even more irresponsible.  How many anonymous op-eds does the NYT publish?  Why should this one be exceptional, except that it supports the NYT position?
 
As a former newspaper reporter and editor, I abhor anonymous sources.  If they don't have the courage to be named, their opinions don't deserve to be printed.  They are just spreading gossip.
 
The whole thing sounds like the court intrigues that Shakespeare wrote much about.
Lindsay Wheeler Added Sep 6, 2018 - 4:11pm
The Wolf book, the Woodward book, and the Anon Op-ed is psychological warfare against President Trump. Theodore Adorno and Max Horkheimer, both Jews of the Frankfurt School, in their book, The Dialectics of Enlightenment, counsel to forgo facts and live in theoretical Imaginations!!!!  Forgo Facts and Live in Theoretical Imaginations!  Can you believe that?  This is what the Wolf/Woodward/Anon Op-ed are all about---creating this false world where the Looney Democrats live to give them hope of getting rid of Trump! It is all about creating the ****Perception**** of chaos and ineptitude so they can impeach him. This is NOTHING but a game!!!  It is all Theoretical Imaginations to feed their troops pabulum while setting the precious ****Narative*** ! 
 
These people are evil to the core!  
 
George N Romey Added Sep 6, 2018 - 5:57pm
I read the excerpts of his book.  He should retire.  Trump isn't much different than any other President.  He's just too dumb to cover his tracks.  If Woodward wanted a tell all he should covered what Truman or JFK did.  JFK turned the place into a brothel.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:13pm
 Wll, this got Lindsay and Kenny ranting.  Yeah, right, Lindsay, Woodward wrote the book to give Looney Democrats liv(ing) to get rid of Trump.  If it was just about the "perception" of chaos an ineptitude that would get Orange shitwipe impeached, he be back sitting in Trump Tower counting piles of dollars fresh in from Russian mafia oligarchs.  May ol Kenny has had a CASABLANCA MOMENT AND SHOULD REFLECT ON IT: "Why did you come to WB, Kenny?" "I came for debate and honest rightist ideas."  "But Kenny, there is no debate or honest rightist opinions on WB." "I was misinformed." Still are.
Even A Broken Clock Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:24pm
Jeffrey - what would be interesting would be to see a minute-by-minute tape of DT's blood pressure on a day like yesterday. My own expectation, and this has absolutely nothing to do with my political views, is that the 25th amendment will be needed because eventually this President will be incapacitated by a stroke. His personality traits and his reactions to events have got to be exacting a price from his body.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:32pm
We can always hope, EABC.  The hope is not for impeachment, but a hope he'll implode for health reasons.  Hey, all that criticism must be tough on a 70 year old living on diet Coke and McDonalds.  May health impacts be totaled soon.
opher goodwin Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:44pm
Jeff - For fuck's sake - just give him Stormy Daniels, a cookie or ten and a quart of scotch - keep him quiet for the next three years so the rest of us can sleep easy and the planet isn't completely fucked!
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:45pm
@Ken:
Woodward is a respected author who writes on all presidents, not just Republicans.  No one I know of has ever accused him of being unfair.
 
Actually he isn't that respected and is considered a partisan hack.  It has been widely discussed that Bernstein was the brains behind uncovering Watergate (well, and the information from the deputy director of the FBI who hated Nixon), not woodward”
 
Sounds like sour grapes.  He is widely known and respected for his work.  
 
“Why?  Their motivation is to stay in and fight Trump’s worst impulses.  
 
Why?  Because they aren't elected representatives of the people.”
 
Yet these are his people.  They didn’t just pop up out of the blue.  I thought he was only going to get the best people, Ken, are you saying that isn’t true?
 
 
“No president in  history has ever taken all of the advice from even his most trusted advisors.  Once the president makes a decision it is the advisors job to execute it.  If they don't like it, then resign.  It is not the unelected advisors job to make policy.”
 
It takes a brave person to realize that their boss is a complete fuckup.  I feel somewhat better that there are people surrounding Thud who at least know something of what is right and wrong.
 
“Technically the electoral college, he lost the actual vote.
 
That's just silly parsing and irrelevant, you know what I meant, and who do you think votes on the electors?”
 
I’m silly sometimes, it’s one of the things that makes me so fuzzy and loveable.
;)
Trump lost the popular vote.  I will say it was quite an accomplishment to convince the “Forgotten man and woman” that a New York billionaire actually gives a shit about them.  
 
“I don’t think they need any help
 
You are about the only one then.  This is going to be a very close election either way, and the only thing they have come up to run on is impeach trump, raise taxes”
 
Actually I am one who is looking with some trepidation towards November because I really don’t know what is going to happen.  I think the House goes blue but the Senate stays red.
 
 
 
“There are certainly professional and personal reasons for what they did.
 
Well, that defeats the whole premise of "for the good of the country" then, doesn't it?”
 
No, it does not.  Professional reasons because someone there actually cares about this country and personal because of their beliefs.
 
“There is no credibility in an anonymous op-ed.”
 
I doubt you’d feel this way towards a Democrat.  Come on, tell the truth and shame the devil, Ken.
The reality is that anonymous sources are a fact of life.  They cut both ways.
 
“The NYT has written fiction before.  Heck, they won a Pulitzer for covering up the Stalin famine genocide”
 
They were not the only ones to cover that up.
 
“and then they followed that up by covering up the Holocaust.”
 
They were not the only ones, Ken.  There was a general reluctance to cover the destruction of Europe’s Jews for a variety of reasons.
 
“Even in the recent past they have put out fictional pieces claiming to be news on a fairly regular basis as long as it fits their agenda.”
 
I’m sure.
 
“This piece clearly fits their agenda”
 
I know, it sucks, both sides have agendas.
opher goodwin Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:50pm
FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!! FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!! FUNDAMENTALIST ALERT!!!
WE HAVE A SITUATION!!!
THE CHILD IS TAKING OVER THE SITE!!!
wsucram15 Added Sep 6, 2018 - 6:53pm
This Stuff with Trump is silly for the most part, who publishes a op-ed piece anonymously? But my problem is not really with that..I have a problem with the people in the White house not doing their jobs.   I understand their conundrum however, its philosophical.  What do you do with the speeding train with the people on it?  Let it crash into the town killing hundreds or pull the switch and only kill the few when it runs off the tracks not completed?   It is morality.  Do I work for Trump or do I work for Americans?  As far as I can see there is a difference.
 
I dont like Trump and I have my reasons. But I will not do a happy dance over any of this because this is all wrong.  But dont anyone scream treason either..thats stupid also because you would be incorrect.
 
I dont know if these things are happening now, nor does anyone else, except the people in the WH and they wont talk now. But it has that unsure feeling again.
My concern is.. how far is everyone going to let this go? Trump isnt going to stand for this...article after article, book after book. You do realize it is illegal to stop people from saying the truth.   If the authors can prove what they say either publicly or in court..it is legal. His own people are turning on him and ultimately others will as well.  Its like a thread that you pull...
You cannot give an authoritarian ultimatums, or back them in a corner. Also you cannot keep people from being afraid of a White House that is being run improperly.  But we dont know..we just dont. I will say, I do trust Woodward, his research on past books has been above reproach. I imagine this will be the same.
 
So do you pull the lever to save the town? Or just save the ones on the train? People right now..are beginning to work for the town.  This is how Nixon felt, slow at first then it unraveled faster and faster.
 
If both the republicans and Trump had just stopped hiding and shut everyone up by finishing this investigation, without any stunts or blockades, it might be over by now.  Then fire them all  to clean house and start fresh. Why not? Justice would have been served.
wsucram15 Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:04pm
Ken..
Where in the heck did you get the idea that being president and making those decisions on multi-level dimensions that may affect other countries and a variety of departments, would not require advisors?
I was on a panel for the Congress to report to the President on a variety of economic issues and actually spoke in DC, twice at the capital.  Im not saying they listen, but they do have advisors and experts.  Absolutely.
I guess there have been some Presidents that one dimensional, but it is very unlikely.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:13pm
@wsucram15:
I understand what you are saying.  The reality is that there are people surrounding Trump who are trying to save him from himself.  I think this is truly sad but that’s our reality.  That’s what it will be until Trump leaves office.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:32pm
@Opher Goodwin and EABC
 
Oh, yes, I’d love to be a fly on the wall when Trump heard the news....LOL
 
BTW I’d happily see him out of office where he couldn’t damage things worse than he already has.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:35pm
@rycK the JFK Democrat:
 
I realize it gives you warm and fuzzy feelings with the thought of your God Emperor locking up liberals and leftists.  Unfortunately for you and him the country hasn’t given themselves over to his fascist yearnings.
Ken Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:38pm
Sounds like sour grapes.  He is widely known and respected for his work.  
 
Really? https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/bob-woodward-trump-book-media-bias/
 
Yet these are his people.  They didn’t just pop up out of the blue.  I thought he was only going to get the best people, Ken, are you saying that isn’t true?
 
Actually, I think he made some absolutely horrible choices.  Fortunately some of those like Rex Tillerson is gone.  I don't believe he always gets the best people.  Also, we don't know who wrote it, we don't know if it IS one of his people.  That is exactly why it should not be anonymous.  Was it someone in the know?  Was it someone on the periphery who just works in the white house as a staffer with minimal direct access?
 
It takes a brave person to realize that their boss is a complete fuckup.
 
If that is the case, and at this point again, there is no credibility in an anonymous op-ed.
 
 I think the House goes blue but the Senate stays red.
 
 
Easy call on the senate.  I actually think they gain some seats which will help a lot without having to deal with the RINOs like Susan Collins,Lindsey Graham (Flake and McCain both will be gone, but there are others)
 
I fear the constitutional crisis that will absolutely occur if the house goes blue - and there is a pretty good chance it will.  I hope that it stays in the red for the good of the country.
 
 
No, it does not.  Professional reasons because someone there actually cares about this country and personal because of their beliefs.
 
That would actually be incredibly unprofessional.  The elected President gets to decide what is best for the country.  If you disagree you voice your displeasure, but once he makes a decision it is your job to carry it out (by you and your i mean the person in that position).  If you cannot in good conscience carry out his decision, then it is your responsibility to resign and move on.  Your personal agenda is not what was elected
 
I doubt you’d feel this way towards a Democrat.
 
Actually I would.  One thing people around me know is that I am very impartial in my principles.  I don't go with "my team" just to get the other team.  Something similar about Obama I would also have taken with a grain of salt if written anonymously, and I would speak out against it as well.
 
They were not the only ones to cover that up.
 
Really?  You don't know about Walter Duranty and the Pulitzer they still won't give back to this day?  They absolutely did.
 
They were not the only ones, Ken.  There was a general reluctance to cover the destruction of Europe’s Jews for a variety of reasons.
 
They were the paper of record.  Most other media weren't aware of it, they were  They relegated it to the back pages at best.  There is a lot of shame to go around, but that doesn't lessen their guilt.
Ken Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:40pm
Do I work for Trump or do I work for Americans?
 
When you work in the Executive Branch, you serve at the pleasure of the president.  The president works for the Americans, you work for him.  Period.  If you cannot work for him, you resign. 
Ken Added Sep 6, 2018 - 7:51pm
If both the republicans and Trump had just stopped hiding and shut everyone up by finishing this investigation,
 
How are they hiding?  They have furnished over a million pages of documentation, much that is so sensitive, no president in previous history would have released and held under "executive privilege".  The white house lawyer testified for 20 hours.
 
If you mean Trump himself?  That is unconstitutional.  A sitting president cannot be indicted and there is no information that Mueller would get from Trump that he can't get anywhere else.  The only reason at this point Mueller wants to question Trump is to create what is known as a "Perjury Trap", if he misremembers something or such or they catch him answering a question one way and then another way in a similar question, etc.  It is clear that t hey have NOTHING on Trump at this point - why?  Because 2+ years later, Carter Page has not had a single charge levied against him.
 
Why is that important?   He was the one that the original FISA warrant for surveillance was on and the fact he has been charged with nothing means they came up with nothing and this entire investigation therefore has nothing.  If they had anything Papadopoulos would be serving more than process crimes for "lying to the FBI" - which even the corrupt Peter Strzok and the FBI didn't believe he did.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:13pm
@Ken:
Sounds like sour grapes.  He is widely known and respected for his work.  
 
Really? target="_blank">https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/bob-woodward-trump-book-media-bias/
 
Again, sounds like sour grapes.  BTW, did you actually read the article?  Woodward criticized both Bush and Obama...and also favored both.  Sounds incrediblly impartial to me...
Not everyone is going to like what someone writes, Ken.  Sometimes petty billshit gets between the work and the critic.
 
“Yet these are his people.  They didn’t just pop up out of the blue.  I thought he was only going to get the best people, Ken, are you saying that isn’t true?
 
Actually, I think he made some absolutely horrible choices.”
 
Wait...what????  I thought he was only going to get the best people.  But he also said he was going to be too busy to golf so who’s keeping track?
 
“Fortunately some of those like Rex Tillerson is gone.  I don't believe he always gets the best people.”
 
But he said...well, he also said he’d be too busy to take vacations so why keep track?
 
“Also, we don't know who wrote it, we don't know if it IS one of his people.  That is exactly why it should not be anonymous.  Was it someone in the know?  Was it someone on the periphery who just works in the white house as a staffer with minimal direct access?”
 
Actually Ken, reading background on this today it sounds like the NYT wouldn’t bend over backwards to keep some low level staffer anonymous or agree to run the op-ed.  It needed to be someone important and in the know.
 
“It takes a brave person to realize that their boss is a complete fuckup.
 
If that is the case, and at this point again, there is no credibility in an anonymous op-ed.”
 
Really?
OK, here’s the deal.  I get that as an invested Trumpling you don’t want to deal with the fact that Trump is a complete fuckup.  I get it, that’s hard.
The reality is that all these leaks are saying the same thing:
 
Trump doesn’t know what the hell he is doing and people are scared shitless about it.  
 
This is just the latest in a long string of “OMFG, what did we get ourselves into” leaking out of the White House.  That’s reality, Ken and what should scare you is that it’s his own people going “OMFG, what did we get ourselves into.”
 
 “I think the House goes blue but the Senate stays red.
 
 
Easy call on the senate.”
 
No kidding, that’s the obvious one.  It’s all wrong for the Democrats this year.  
 
“I actually think they gain some seats which will help a lot without having to deal with the RINOs like Susan Collins,Lindsey Graham (Flake and McCain both will be gone, but there are others)”
 
Sad that the decent ones are leaving.  Pity.  
You know I don’t like Republicans on principle but some are decent folks.  The people you call RINOS are who I consider decent conservatives who don’t scare the shit out of me.
 
“I fear the constitutional crisis that will absolutely occur if the house goes blue - and there is a pretty good chance it will.  I hope that it stays in the red for the good of the country.”
 
I hope it goes bright Prussian Blue for the sake of this country.  I don’t want Pence but for FFS....
 
 
“No, it does not.  Professional reasons because someone there actually cares about this country and personal because of their beliefs.
 
That would actually be incredibly unprofessional.  The elected President gets to decide what is best for the country.  If you disagree you voice your displeasure, but once he makes a decision it is your job to carry it out (by you and your i mean the person in that position).  If you cannot in good conscience carry out his decision, then it is your responsibility to resign and move on.  Your personal agenda is not what was elected”
 
True but Trump’s insistence on fawning all over dictators and calling a free press the enemy is enough to make any decent person’s hackles stand on end.
 
“I doubt you’d feel this way towards a Democrat.
 
Actually I would.  One thing people around me know is that I am very impartial in my principles.  I don't
wsucram15 Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:15pm
Ken..
Sure thing, and you claim to know the law,
5 U.S. code § 3331 
    
You are employed by the American people, you are paid by my (a hundreds of millions of others) tax dollars. you are supposed to obey an oath of office.
 
"An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service shall take the following oath: “I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United  States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”
Yeah..everyone needs to understand these people ALL work for the President because he selected them yes, but they are employed by the people as an agent of the United States on their behalf.
Also we pay them well, Trump gave everyone a raise this year the average salary is 187K.
 
Ken Thats my opinion on the Trump White House along with Ryan and McConnell who could have circumvented all of this. But they are going to run the table as long as they can.
ok..
Leroy Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:17pm
Funny stuff, Jeffrey.
 
The big question is how will it play in Peoria?  Will it enhance Trump's image or diminish it?   My guess is that everyone is overloaded with Trump.  Minds are made up.  Nothing will change.  In the end, "It's the economy, stupid."  People will vote their pocketbook.  Pray, Jeffrey, that the economy falters.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:18pm
@Ken:
Damnit, some got cut off.  Anyway:
 
” They were not the only ones to cover that up.
 
Really?  You don't know about Walter Duranty and the Pulitzer they still won't give back to this day?  They absolutely did.”
 
No shit, Ken, most media outlets covered up or didn’t report the Holodomor and related famines at the time.
 
“They were not the only ones, Ken.  There was a general reluctance to cover the destruction of Europe’s Jews for a variety of reasons.
 
They were the paper of record.  Most other media weren't aware of it, they were”
 
The fuck they weren’t, Ken.  There was a general reluctance to report Nazi crimes out of fear it was Soviet, Polish or even British propaganda.  The BBC made a report in the Summer of 1942 but only at the behest of the Polish Government-in-Exile.  Most newspapers buried it on the back page, not just the NYT.
 
 
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:22pm
 The BBC made a report in the Summer of 1942 but only at the behest of the Polish Government-in-Exile.  Most newspapers buried it on the back page, not just the NYT.
 
hate to be the one to tell ya, Ken, but this is correct. There was no real reporting on this until '44 and after, only beginning in late '44
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:23pm
@Leroy:
”Funny stuff, Jeffrey.”
 
Thanks, Leroy.  The best comedy always comes from a basis in reality.
 
“The big question is how will it play in Peoria?  Will it enhance Trump's image or diminish it?   My guess is that everyone is overloaded with Trump.  Minds are made up.  Nothing will change.”
 
Actually I think the minds are made up for hardcore Democrats, like me and Republicans and Trumplings.  But there is this core of the voting population that this might affect.  Again, I simply don’t know.
 
 
“In the end, "It's the economy, stupid."  People will vote their pocketbook.  Pray, Jeffrey, that the economy falters.”
 
1) I don’t pray.
2) I’d never wish for that.  I have no desire to see anyone get hurt.
3) I think Trump’s tariffs might start to bite.
 
We’ll see.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:24pm
Opher has gone screwy!  
 
Leftist heads exploding in 3...2....1...
 
Jeffrey, please name seven conservative sites you and your liberal friends have read for two months in your life.  You can’t, so you keep regurgitating lamestream news.  
 
Please be honest for a change and stop deceiving yourself.  
 
You are just refurgitating left wing new ms and act as if you get a reward for it.  Just because you can read, and watch hellivision, doesn’t make you an expert.
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:26pm
@TBH:
The BBC made a report in the Summer of 1942 but only at the behest of the Polish Government-in-Exile.  Most newspapers buried it on the back page, not just the NYT.
 
hate to be the one to tell ya, Ken, but this is correct.”
 
Why is there even a question?
;)
Ken has better tread lightly.  This is my wheelhouse.  I make no claims to be the end all expert but I’m willing to bet I know more than Ken.
 
“There was no real reporting on this until '44 and after, only beginning in late '44”
 
There wasn’t widespread belief until the Allies started liberating camps.
Eric Reports Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:29pm
Funny as a heart attack.
 Trump needs to rehire Bannon and fire every deep state bloodsucker that is killing our country.
Bob Woodword is a piece of shit and you can thank him and that commie Berstein for ruining Nixon's world peace plan.  
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:32pm
@Ryan Messano:
 
Oh, fuck, Ryan found the article.
 
”Opher has gone screwy!”
 
We’re all crazy now, Ryan.
 
“Leftist heads exploding in 3...2....1...”
 
Ryan repeating the same, tired old shit in 3....2.....1
 
“Jeffrey, please name seven conservative sites you and your liberal friends have read for two months in your life.  You can’t, so you keep regurgitating lamestream news.”
 
Why does it have to be seven?  Can’t it be like two?
 
“Please be honest for a change and stop deceiving yourself.”
 
I’m always honest when I want to be.  Same way with being a gentleman...when I want to be.
 
“You are just refurgitating”
 
WTF is “refurgitating?”
 
“left wing new ms and act as if you get a reward for it.  Just because you can read, and watch hellivision, doesn’t make you an expert.
 
I never claimed to be an expert on Donald the Thud, Ryan.  I’m simply commenting on the news of the day.
 
Weren’t you leaving this den of iniquity?
 
On that note, football is on.
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 6, 2018 - 8:48pm
Jeffrey,
re:”Are you sure about that?”
 
Yes.
 
How so? Because they said so?
 
re:”That seems like a rather conspiracy theoryish thing to say.  The NYT knows who wrote it.”
 
I suppose someone there very high up does, thats for sure, Or at least, he know where he got it from. He may not even know who wrote it.
 
Indeed, it does have that “rather conspiracy theoryish thing “
in it because my research into what makes things move has made  crystal clear the influence of the CFR on our state and the media, and the importance of media in the establishment of the state narrative and propaganda.  You can call it that if you like, but I certainly dont “believe” what they write in the newspapers.  
 
And BTW, dont keep refirgitating, LOL
 
Mustafa
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:00pm
@Eric Reports:
”Funny as a heart attack.”
 
I thought it was KINDA funny, Eric.
 

 “Trump needs to rehire Bannon and fire every deep state bloodsucker that is killing our country.”
 
Bannon looks like the caricature of the funny alcoholic uncle that nobody wants attending family reunions.  He always shows, up, drinks too much and picks a fight with everyone.  

“Bob Woodword is a piece of shit and you can thank him and that commie Berstein for ruining Nixon's world peace plan.”
 
Wow, I gotta say, that’s impressive.  There are still Nixon fans.
Ryan Messano Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:01pm
I keep repeating the basics, Jeffrey, because the problems that come from them keep coming up.  When a student can’t do math in school, they have to do more math problems with addition.
 
Please don’t use profanity.
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:03pm
@Mustafa Kemal:
 
What makes me believe it is that it matches everything we are getting from this White House.  There is a general feeling of chaos.
 
Refurgitators of the world, unite!!!
 
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:05pm
@Ryan Messano:
”I keep repeating the basics, Jeffrey, because the problems that come from them keep coming up.  When a student can’t do math in school, they have to do more math problems with addition.”
 
I think a lot of it has to do with a lack of originality.
 
“Please don’t use profanity.”
 
It’s my article, Ryan.  I’ll use profanity when I fucking please.
Ken Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:13pm
Sure thing, and you claim to know the law,
5 U.S. code § 3331 
 
I know the law in specific terms and have deeply studied the constitution, I am not a lawyer, never claimed to be.
 
That said, taking an oath to support and defend the constitution doesn't mean you work for the American People.  You still serve at the pleasure of the president.  If you feel he is doing or is asking you to do something unconstitutional, then you resign and you take appropriate action to prevent something unconstitutional from happening.  You don't go writing an anonymous editorial that doesn't even make specific charges as to what Trump is doing to harm america or is unconstitutional, but rather demagogues anti-Trumpisms.
 
If you don't believe his agenda is constitutional, you don't work to undermine his administration in the shadows, you come out up front and speak out so if there is an issue it sees the light of day.
 
No shit, Ken, most media outlets covered up or didn’t report the Holodomor and related famines at the time.
 
So youdon't know about Duranty - it wasn't not reporting about it, he flat out reported that it wasn't happening, that everything was great and the whole thing was a lie - from USSR to boot. The NYT and Duranty actively promoted what a great guy Stalin was
Cullen Kehoe Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:31pm
I don't know what goes on in the White House. Trump may be crazy. He's a bit loose with facts (although seems to fall closer to the exaggeration category than outright lies to me). 
 
Nixon was allegedly half crazy while in office. Reagan started forgetting things (allegedly) late in his second term. 
 
Wilson had a stroke while in office which took him out of commission for a few months and his wife ferried messages between him and his cabinet (in effect, she was acting as de facto president). 
 
George W. Bush allegedly needed help to govern from Cheney in his first 6 years (until their falling out over Scooter Libby). This resulted in Cheney sort of running things behind the scenes it seemed. 
 
The NyTimes article is over the top. I don't believe half of it (Trump wanted to take out Assad and his Deep State aides stopped him???? They love John McCain who desperately wanted Assad gone but, again, stopped Trump from doing something McCain wanted? It makes no sense). 
 
If the sort of thing is happening where his aides are partly 'managing' Trump, it's nothing necessarily outside the ordinary. 
 
By the way, Trump can't unilaterally fire nukes. Two different people from the military (as I understand) have to also push buttons, who can not obey or pause or double-check. 
 
This 'oh a right wing nutcase is going to start WWIII' goes back a long way. Back in the 80's they were saying this about Reagan (remember the end of the music video Land of Confusion where a puppet Reagan fires nukes instead of turning off his alarm clock?). 
Jeff Michka Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:45pm
Think Ryan has found a new life after a bunch of his 'articles" came back from the bit bucket.  Perhaps there was a WB data restore of some kind responsible for it.  GAWD DIDN'T DO IT, FOLKS and Ryan(although I'm sure Mr. IT", Traitolynn will see gawd's hand in it, just as an IT weenie.  Just think, those local voters that now read WB will have more to read and help disqualify Ryan from a school board position.  Ryan's YouTube vids are well known down his way, so this is icing on the Ryan cake.  Do we have someone with candles for the cake?
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:49pm
Jeffrey,
re:"What makes me believe it is that it matches everything we are getting from this White House.  There is a general feeling of chaos."
 
I see that and given my impression of him, it is perfectly consistent his 
manchild never had to learn to play well with others gestalt.
 
But to my mind that just tells me that such an operation has very good cover.  
 
Mustafa
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 6, 2018 - 9:51pm
Jeffrey, btw, I forgot to mention that your story did make me laugh.
Ken Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:30pm
Reagan started forgetting things (allegedly) late in his second term. 
 
I can tell you from direct knowledge I know that that is a media perpetrated myth.  They wanted everyone to believe his alzheimer's (which was first kicked in in the early 90s) impacted his presidency.  I know several people who knew him personally, and to a person, every single one says he was always completely aware, in control, and new what was going on (not including some things like iran-contra that was deliberately kept out of the loop for deniability)
Ken Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:32pm
Wilson had a stroke while in office which took him out of commission for a few months and his wife ferried messages between him and his cabinet (in effect, she was acting as de facto president). 
 
It was more than a few month, it was about half of his second term.  She was basically our first female president.
Ken Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:35pm
re:"What makes me believe it is that it matches everything we are getting from this White House.  There is a general feeling of chaos."
 
It isn't that difficult to weave a plausible plot out of a bunch of disparate facts that may not even be connected when you don't know the full story.  That is the entire success of Tom Clancy - lets put a bunch of factual things together that are unrelated and make a damn good fictional thriller out of it
William Stockton Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:50pm
Losers just gonna keep on losing . . . and whining.  What makes losers pathetic losers?  The incessant whining and crying about losing.
 
I understand it, Jeffery.  Winning is perjurous to the party of The Weak & Stupid.  The voters for Trump interrupted your breakneck race to the bottom.  Your lust for skin-tone-porn politics put on hold.  ("orange" toddler you say?)
 
For the next 6.5 years, I am going to enjoy watching you bozos on the left shit all over yourselves.  It's like the best comedy show ever!  LOL
The drooling, belligerent left have nothing else to add to the conversation.  This article is another briny drop in a sea of big, huge-ass crybabies. 
 
Do you need a tissue, Jeffery?
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 6, 2018 - 10:58pm
Meh
Bill H. Added Sep 7, 2018 - 1:10am
It took this long for most of Trump's staff to agree that Trump is an "Unhinged Idiot", and maybe the American people should be made aware?
Ahhhh………. hello?
It was quite obvious even before he got elected.
I can't imagine how this buffoon has remained in office this long, but it looks like the system is finally working.
I am regaining my faith, and hopefully we can eject this Orange Bozo ASAP.
Flying Junior Added Sep 7, 2018 - 3:58am
So is Mike Pence the mole?
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 7, 2018 - 4:26am



So is Mike Pence the mole?
 
No. 
 
It's opinion of NYT. There is no anonymous source. 


 
No senior official would express disagreement anonymously.
 
Anonymous dissent has no credibility. Moreover, the dishonor of it undermines the character of the writer. A real dissenter would use his reputation and the status of his high position to lend weight to his dissent.
 
 
Gerrilea Added Sep 7, 2018 - 6:40am
Jeffrey K--- Oh pluease. 
 
Believe nothing you read and half of what you see.
 
You can hate on Trump all you like, it doesn't change the fact the policies the Democratic Party has pushed for over a decade have failed and were soundly rejected by the voting public.
 
Gun control, Obamacare, Illegal's worship, "Free Trade", White Guilt, etc, etc, etc.
 
They have nothing but their meme's against Trump.
 
They did nothing when we gave them total control, NOTHING that helped ANY of us.
 
Shall we review the list of crimes that went unpunished and were expanded under Democratic Control?
 
Endless wars.
Total funding for the New American Police State.
Shredding the Constitution.
Prosecution of Whistleblowers.
Billions in government handouts to "Heath" Insurance Companies.
Billions in government handouts to Big Pharma.
Billions in tax breaks for the wealthy elite.
 
How about you tell your handlers we're paying attention and these attempts at a soft coup will not succeed.
 
George N Romey Added Sep 7, 2018 - 6:49am
Trump is the result of bad government. If Obama had did his job instead of cozying up to mobsters like Jamie Dimon we’d wouldn’t have this buffoon in office. Clinton would have been 4 more years of progressive talk but neoliberal actions. Ultimately she’d do a lot more damage.
opher goodwin Added Sep 7, 2018 - 9:47am
George - Trump is the epitome of bad government. He's out of his depth.
Gerrilea Added Sep 7, 2018 - 9:57am
Opher G-- From where I'm sitting, that's a good thing.  Trump ran on and got elected for specific policy choices.  He's tried to implement them, one by one.
 
We wouldn't have Trump had those in power over the past 30+ yrs done a better job.
 
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 7, 2018 - 10:15am
Gerrilea,
re:"We wouldn't have Trump had those in power over the past 30+ yrs done a better job."
 
Indeed, and it appears one can say the same thing about the EU and their nationalist movements.
 
Again, it come back to the same thing; Democrats! come up with a real platform! Come up with some integrity!
 
Mustafa
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 7, 2018 - 11:00am
It can not be fairly said for all "rank and file" democrats, but for the leadership and the parties holding the megaphone, they have abandoned sanity and with that integrity, or any hope thereof
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 7, 2018 - 11:04am
the principle difference between democrat and republican is this: in the republican party the establishment goes to great pains to distance themselves from the most radical voices in their constituency. in the democrat party these people are elevated to leadership, paraded before the cameras and fawned over by their ass sniffing dogs they call journalists as the next great hope. To wit: Kamala Harris. Need I say more?
George N Romey Added Sep 7, 2018 - 11:28am
It comes down to there is no material interest in either of these parties.  The real power of the Democratic Party is in the neoliberal Ivy League born to wealth faction.  The party of the working people got left behind in the 1970s.  If Sanders had ran against Trump we in all likelihood would have President Sanders and some of those Trump voters would have been Sanders voters.
 
That should tell you the mood of the country.  The average American trying to raise a family on a combined income of around $75K and having people that make $75K in a week spread bs that they should have to Yale and gotten a STEM degree.  Or that if we just "free the market" so many wonderful things would happen.  That was the golden idea of the 1920s and 1990s-2007.  See how that turned out.
 
Trump is emblematic of a nation in decline.  
John Minehan Added Sep 7, 2018 - 11:34am
I have been reading Ben Rhodes's book, The World As It Is
 
The sense it left me with is that the World is changing and old assumptions no longer serve.  It has also reinforced my perception that when Pres. Obama tried new approaches they almost always were disastrous failures.
 
Pres. Obama was a well educated man, a product of Columbia and a magna cum laude graduate of Harvard Law School who was famously the President of Harvard Law Review
 
However, at one point in the book, Obama is described as saying the Chinese were never expansionistic "that was the Mongols."  Naturally, the average person who has an ordinary knowledge of history might ask, "When do you mean?"
 
What we now call China was built by a series of wars fought between related expansionistic polities during what was called "The Warring States Period."  China was expansionistic towards its neighbors at various times---including Vietnam almost a millennium before the Mongols conquered China.  There were Chinese governments that were not expansionistic , for example a Dynasty that halted exploration of  the Western Pacific, but it had more to do with feeling that those areas had little to offer China.
 
Clearly, this reflects a lack of nuance at minimum but it became a basis for (probably flawed) policy.
 
Is Trump so bad?
 
Trump is not an intellectual.  He has no pretention to deep knowledge.  He is a developer and, at his most basic, a huckster.  To be a successful huckster, you have to have an instinct for how events are unfolding and a keen edge for using them to your advantage.
 
Trump has failed spectacularly (how do you lose money running a casino?) but he has always come back.  He isn't the smartest guy in the room (that was ENRON) but he was usually the guy in the room with the sharpest eye for the main chance.
 
What I'm saying is: possibly the great unwashed got this one right  
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 7, 2018 - 11:36am
George
 
"Trump is emblematic of a nation in decline.  "
 
Trump is emblematic of a nation that is trashing the far left.  
George N Romey Added Sep 7, 2018 - 11:56am
A nation that is building mostly low wage jobs.  A nation heading towards $22 trillion in debt with no end in site.  A nation still (despite all the debt) trying to control the world while its own infrastructure is falling apart.  A nation that spends billions on silly and unneeded things like the TSA.  A nation that throws billions towards education but has some of the dumbest people in the developed world. A nation in which the press tries to scare the average American with tales from the 1950s (McCarthy would be loving this.)
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 7, 2018 - 12:11pm
George
 
"A nation that is building mostly low wage jobs.  A nation heading towards $22 trillion in debt with no end in site. "
 
You can blame Trump for all of this??
 
Obama doubled the debt from $11 to $22T so where does he fit into your comments? This money was well spent??
 
"A nation that spends billions on silly and unneeded things like the TSA. "
 
You seem not to need the U.S. Department of Homeland Security  as they catch terrorists and illegal aliens. What do you want? Open borders?
 
"A nation that throws billions towards education but has some of the dumbest people in the developed world. "
 
For dumb why not check the standardized test scores of the 10 largest cities in the US  all run by left-liberals and the phony teachers  union?
 
Where do you consider we should live or emulate? Cuba??
 
 
Ken Added Sep 7, 2018 - 2:02pm
So is Mike Pence the mole?
 
Extremely unlikely although the op-ed is written in such a way to make it look like it was him using terms like "lodestar" that are rarely used but he uses a lot.
 
If you get rid of Trump, then you get Pence.  If you can get rid of Trump and Pence, then it goes to the speaker of the house who is 3rd in line.  If the house turns blue in november, that means a democrat becomes president.
 
Sneaky, huh?
John Minehan Added Sep 7, 2018 - 2:06pm
"Extremely unlikely although the op-ed is written in such a way to make it look like it was him using terms like "lodestar" that are rarely used but he uses a lot."
 
It is a word used a lot by lawyers who practice a lot in Federal court, as it is a term used for a method of calculating attorney's fees.
  
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 7, 2018 - 4:26pm
Ken
 
"If you get rid of Trump, then you get Pence."
 
Right!
 
This type of standing fact seems to bypass the left. 
 
"If you can get rid of Trump and Pence, then it goes to the speaker of the house who is 3rd in line."
 
Only after a second impeachment of Pence. 
 
IF Trump is impeached [a nothing burger to him] the Senate will never garner the 67 votes necessary to remove him.
 
If they did Pence would be President and he differs not a tiny bit from Trump and supported him and his policies from the start. 
 
The left must be frantic to pin their hopes on words like "lodestar," which is in the dictionary we think, and anybody could pick that up as easily as they did "Bubba" or Slick Willie a few decades ago. 
John Minehan Added Sep 7, 2018 - 5:33pm
"If they did Pence would be President and he differs not a tiny bit from Trump and supported him and his policies from the start."
 
Probably.  Unless . . . the intercepts from GCHQ and the Dutch already implicate Pence.  It is unlikely, but not impossible. 
  
Ken Added Sep 7, 2018 - 6:32pm
Ken Added Sep 7, 2018 - 6:37pm

Only after a second impeachment of Pence. 
 
IF Trump is impeached [a nothing burger to him] the Senate will never garner the 67 votes necessary to remove him.
 
I didn't say he would be removed from office, but I believe that those who have been working on this coup are trying to get to.  That is why they want the anonymous op-ed to look like it came from pence.
 
If they can get an actual serious offense on Trump, the senate will convict, they will have no choice. I don't think they will without making it up, but who knows?  They are already grooming pence to get rid of him too.
 
No impeachment occurs if Republicans keep the house, if they don't though, Katie bar the doors!
 
There is absolutely a difference between Trump and Pence.  Pence is actually a PRINCIPLED CONSERVATIVE.  Trump is a pragmatist who has been steering to what works - conservatism, but there is no guarantee on any given issue that will be his direction.  With Pence you will have consistency.
John Minehan Added Sep 7, 2018 - 7:08pm
"There is absolutely a difference between Trump and Pence.  Pence is actually a PRINCIPLED CONSERVATIVE.  Trump is a pragmatist who has been steering to what works - conservatism, but there is no guarantee on any given issue that will be his direction.  With Pence you will have consistency."
 
I agree.  This is the key to many Conservatives opposition to Trump. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 7, 2018 - 9:56pm
Pence is scary as shit.  I nicknamed him “Lord High Grand Inquisitor” because of his creepy hyperactive Christianity.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 7, 2018 - 10:00pm
My, the Trumplings have gathered in force.
 
It goes to show me that they are awfully sensitive about their orange emperor.  Good, their sobbing when the shit storm thumps Thud about the head will be a joy to watch.  
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 7, 2018 - 10:31pm
Ken, 
re:" Nikki has been a fantastic pick for UN Ambassador"
yes, if you like super neocons out for war
 
 
Mustafa
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 7, 2018 - 10:35pm
Yup, Mustafa, I agree.  
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 7, 2018 - 10:41pm
Jeffrey, 
re:"Good, their sobbing when the shit storm thumps Thud about the head will be a joy to watch.  "
 
It will be interesting to see if the Trump suave leadership style does indeed rile up enough people to vote him out. Could be one side of his Art of the Deal that may backfire.
 
But Im not really convinced. I just got an email from Our Revolution which stated
 
"The president said the Democratic candidate for governor wants to pay for “illegal aliens” to go to college. I have some news for the president: no human being is illegal."
 
Uggggh, and I wrote them back to the effect. Good luck with that platform. As i see it, either that nonsense fails or it wins and we proceed towards civil war.
 
Mustafa
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 7, 2018 - 10:47pm
Mustafa, TBH, I simply don’t know what will happen.  I think the midterms will give us an idea.
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 8, 2018 - 11:12am
Jeffrey, for the next level conspiracy theory, one should always consider controlled opposition as a powerful force.
 
I read an interview with one of the founders of The Occupy movement, and he said it wasnt very long after the beginning where the operation became coopted, but not by just people with different ideas, people he suspected were working for their opposition, thus transforming the occupy movement into a controlled opposition.
This in effect was Lenin's brilliant brainchild.
 
When I see what Our Revolution has become, it reminds me of this. They take a great idea and then morph so it is ridiculous and therefore is actually useful for the right.
 
Mustafa
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 8, 2018 - 12:46pm
Trump, yer worst nightmare is here to stay 4-8 and replace 2-3 maggoted leftists on the High Court. 
 
Live with it. Or Grin and Bare it. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 8, 2018 - 1:18pm
RycK, Trump will be lucky to make it through his first term.  
 
Yeah, I know about the judges.  Trump gets a list and colors the one he picks in purple crayon.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 8, 2018 - 3:35pm
LOL he likes purple...it's such a regal color, if he uses it, it will enhance his image as King. Next, ol syck will tell us about the checks and balances in place to check Orange asswipe .  And ol syck rattles on with his rightists talking points, and acknowledges what most rightists want out of Trump:  the "right" judges.  FAR RIGHT JUDGES, of course.
Gerrilea Added Sep 8, 2018 - 4:28pm
OHhhhh God.... Jeffrey K....your replies are hilarious and funny.
 
" ...they are awfully sensitive about their orange emperor.."
"...Trump gets a list and colors the one he picks in purple crayon.."
 
Mustafa K--- I do agree no human is illegal but if you come to this nation without following our laws, then you're presence here is and we can restrict what you can and cannot do whilst here illegally, especially getting benefits I pay 43% of my income toward supporting for people whom can follow the rules.
 
It's really simple, America for Americans and this includes the original "Americans" that we almost wiped out.
 
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 8, 2018 - 5:32pm
I am a funny mutha chuka, Gerrilea.  It’s why people find me so charming.
 
Illegals can’t get benefits, not federal ones at any rate.  I know California has a law that provides medical card to illegal children.  I gotta say I’m fine with that.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 8, 2018 - 8:27pm
Occupy was fixated on insiders "redirecting" their efforts  and making it a loyal opposition, strings worked by Wall ST.  Like most paranoid stuff, fingers got pointed, but nothing was conclusive and seemed this phenomena was widespread to any jurisdiction an Occupy movement was in.  It was the proffered excuse to go from group rule in a leaderless setting to having people become "leaders,"  Occupy, sadly, bit the green weenie, partly because of the paranoia and self appointed leaders. 
Gerrilea Added Sep 9, 2018 - 3:04am
Jeffrey K-- Are you in need of medication? You imagine yourself speaking as me? 
 
That said; I don't get this part "mutha chuka"???
 
For the record, I was replying to this statement:
 
"The president said the Democratic candidate for governor wants to pay for “illegal aliens” to go to college. I have some news for the president: no human being is illegal."
 
I have no pity for any of them.  In what distorted reality wouldn't the actions of the parents NOT be considered child abuse? Why aren't they being prosecuted for it?
 
They engage in criminal activity, many times with their children present, and we don't take their kids and lock them up for decades?
 
Wait, I keep forgetting the "Trump is separating and destroying families"  false meme.  If they didn't want their families destroyed they wouldn't engage in criminal activities.
 
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 9, 2018 - 10:01am
Gerrilea, 
 
IMO, the "no human is illegal" meme is Orwellian double speak trying to legitimize illegal aliens.
 
Of course the right uses almost its reflected doublespeak: we have a right to enforce our laws! despite not having done so for a generation under a bipartisan "agreement", thus being cruel and violating other laws. 
 
This dueling doublespeak is what amounts to "debate" today in the US.
 
Mustafa
John Minehan Added Sep 9, 2018 - 1:27pm
Let's see, the Obama Administration found it did not have good processes and proper resources for dealing with detained families, so the Trump Administration established policies that detained more families without allocating more resources.
 
I quote 1SG Milt Warden, "The only sin in the world is wasted effort."   
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 9, 2018 - 1:38pm
Mustafa Kemal
 
"Of course the right uses almost its reflected doublespeak: we have a right to enforce our laws! despite not having done so for a generation under a bipartisan "agreement", thus being cruel and violating other laws. "
 
How do we square our immigration laws with other countries? Mexico requires that visitors must have the funds to leave so as not to burden the state. 
 
Should we do that too to be 'fair??"
 
Are we the only nation that should have open borders?
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 9, 2018 - 5:47pm
@Gerrilea:
Jeffrey K-- Are you in need of medication?”
 
Depends on the medication.
 
“You imagine yourself speaking as me?”
 
If I was you I definitely would need medication.
 
“That said; I don't get this part "mutha chuka"???”
 
It’s my way of saying “motherfucker” without sending Ryan into an apoplectic fit.  That is if Ryan is still hanging about.
 
“For the record, I was replying to this statement:
 
"The president said the Democratic candidate for governor wants to pay for “illegal aliens” to go to college. I have some news for the president: no human being is illegal."
 
I was replying to you calling me funny.  I personally find myself hysterical.
 
“I have no pity for any of them.”
 
For wanting to go to college?
 
“In what distorted reality wouldn't the actions of the parents NOT be considered child abuse? Why aren't they being prosecuted for it?”
 
Who the fuck are you talking about?  Illegal aliens?  
 
“They engage in criminal activity, many times with their children present, and we don't take their kids and lock them up for decades?”
 
Oh, I get it.  You are buying into the stereotype that the anus-in-chief has about illegals.  For the most part illegals come to this country in an effort to improve their and their children’s lives.  Their motivation doesn’t bother me even if the act of crossing the border is illegal.  I understand that laws need enforcing.  But I wouldn’t equate what the majority is doing with child abuse.  
 
“Wait, I keep forgetting the "Trump is separating and destroying families"  false meme.  If they didn't want their families destroyed they wouldn't engage in criminal activities.”
 
Hardly false.  Separating children from their family is extremely traumatizing and can have long-lasting effects.  The humane thing to do would be to place children with their parents or parent while the legalities are worked out.  The caveat is that if the parent(s) is caught carrying drugs or committing another crime like assault or murder.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 9, 2018 - 6:00pm
'rilla gave two lame cites to confirm a call for open borders.  If there were any substance to either cite, they's be front page news, if below the fold.  The rightist mantra of "you all want open borders" is, as always, just rightist propaganda to stir the embers of fear in their base, shrinking back in sheer horror, over ran by the brown and colored masses, swarming over the "open border."  And when was the last time any of you rightist hysterics reentered the US from overseas?  You were just allowed to walk into the parking garage, right?  So le6t6's have some fun wth this.  Yeah syck ryck, "we" should be the only nation with open borders.  What happened to the bill extending I-5 South overpass over the US/Mexican border, to make traffic flowing unchecked into the US flow more efficiently?  It was a bill put forth by Nancy Pelosi and cosponsored by Bernie Sanders, of course.  They're getting extra taxpayer funds for machines to give out voter registration cards as they cross into the US with "Vote Democrat" printed on the front.  Back side is the coupon for "free Stuff," so it's ALL TRUE, rightists.LOL
Gerrilea Added Sep 10, 2018 - 7:39am
Jeffrey K--- You claim they are coming here to better their lives and that of their children.  Then they can apply for "economic refugee" status.  Coming here illegally and then demanding rights is absurd.  Very few come here with the intention of integrating into our society, obviously.  And when a sitting governor panders to them by wanting to give them free college, it goes beyond the pale.  I didn't get free college. I surely don't get free medical care. I don't get free food, clothing, housing or transportation.
 
I cannot agree that their families should be "kept together".  They could have maintained their familial unit by staying where they were and then applying for entrance into this nation.  Our actions once they come here are irrelevant.  Boo Hoo, they don't believe they were "treated fairly".  Don't come here illegally and it won't happen.
 
Jeff M--- Weren't they coming here in a caravan of thousands this past April?
 
Yep. It is an invasion.
 
Making your diatribe, false.  I don't fear them.  Come join us, share in our extraordinary wealth and opportunities BUT do so legally.  There is a reason we have quota's, to protect our society.
 
The town I was raised in, Johnson City, NY is a literal slum because of the policies of our gov't, both Federal & State AND by both demorats and rethug!  Johnson City HS, was ranked as #7 in the nation as one of the best when I graduated, not anymore.
 
IN fact, it got so dire they had a referendum to dissolve the city
 
Any questions why we voted for Trump?
 
You can call me a "rightist" all you like, in fact, I exercised that most precious right and voted for the person who claimed he represented my interests the most.
 
The jury is still out, however.
 
Michael B. Added Sep 10, 2018 - 11:18am
For some reason I'm reminded of a couple of things here, namely the 1998 movie Primary Colors, written by "Anonymous", and the memo written by the woman from Enron, warning of a Titanic-like disaster about to strike. Both of them hardly news, lol. I'm also firmly with the "Mehs". For all I know, someone from WB wrote the NYT op-ed. So what else is new?
Mustafa Kemal Added Sep 10, 2018 - 1:08pm
ryck
re:"How do we square our immigration laws with other countries? Mexico requires that visitors must have the funds to leave so as not to burden the state. 
 
Should we do that too to be 'fair??"
 
The Donald apparently is into "fairness", For me it is not a consideration. I dont care what Mexico does. Except i regularly point out to "open border" noodleheads the uniqueness of such a policy worldwize. 
 
Are we the only nation that should have open borders?"
 
Im really not sure how your coming up with these responses. Maybe you didnt read mine.  I think We, the US citizenry  should come up with a Real Bipartisan Immigration Policy and then Enforce It. Namely make illegal immigration illegal. We wont need  the wall then.
 
Mustafa
 
 
Ken Added Sep 10, 2018 - 2:16pm
Pence is scary as shit.  I nicknamed him “Lord High Grand Inquisitor” because of his creepy hyperactive Christianity.
 
What about his faith scares you?  I am not a christian but his faith doesn't scare me.  He is a constitutionalist.  He isnl't going to suddenly convert america into a theocracy.
Ken Added Sep 10, 2018 - 2:22pm
IMO, the "no human is illegal" meme is Orwellian double speak trying to legitimize illegal aliens.


 
 
WRONG.  It is defined as such in the US Code
 
The USA has by far the most generous immigration laws in t he world, most of which are incredibly unreasonable to Americans and should be rolled back and STILL they are not broad enough for the left.
Bill H. Added Sep 10, 2018 - 3:10pm
As I've stated before, I don't think I know anybody who wants "open borders". This includes very "leftist/progressive" friends of one of my brother's sons, who is a Mayor of a city on the west coast.
Seems that many on the Radical Right cooked this one up to try and stereotype a group, just as they did with "all leftists want to take away your guns", or "all leftists are pro-abortion".
We see it out here constantly, and we see those who actually believe and push this total bullshit.
Are we surprised? 
Gerrilea Added Sep 10, 2018 - 4:41pm
Bill H--- Wait, didn't HRC say she wanted "open trade and open borders"?
 
Yep, then she tried to back away from the statement she made.
 
 
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 10, 2018 - 4:48pm
Mustafa
 
"I think We, the US citizenry  should come up with a Real Bipartisan Immigration Policy and then Enforce It. Namely make illegal immigration illegal. We wont need  the wall then"
 
[1] What would a " Real Bipartisan Immigration Policy" say?
 
What does bipartisan mean here? The left wants open borders. Conflict in terms!
 
[2] immigration is illegal now so how do we stop the influx??
Bill H. Added Sep 10, 2018 - 5:21pm
 
Never paid much attention to Hillary. Politicians say shit constantly to get elected, as we now well know.
I was basing my statement on real people that I know and deal with constantly.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 10, 2018 - 6:38pm
@Gerrilea:
Jeffrey K--- You claim they are coming here to better their lives and that of their children.”
 
Yup.
 
“Then they can apply for "economic refugee" status.”
 
I wonder how many of those are approved per year...
 
“Coming here illegally and then demanding rights is absurd.”
 
Demanding rights?  
 
 
“Very few come here with the intention of integrating into our society, obviously.”
 
LOL
 
  “And when a sitting governor panders to them by wanting to give them free college, it goes beyond the pale.”
 
Well, vote for someone else or move.  If you don’t live in that state then don’t worry about it.
 
“I didn't get free college.”
 
Good for you.  
 
“I surely don't get free medical care. I don't get free food, clothing, housing or transportation.”
 
If its a federal program then illegals can’t get that anyway.  State programs are another thing entirely.
 
“I cannot agree that their families should be "kept together".”
 
Ah, typical Trumpling.  No actual human feelings....
 
 
 I remember you whining and bitching at me on another article about child welfare yet you don’t seem to care about illegal children.
 
“Boo Hoo, they don't believe they were "treated fairly". 
 
Damaging children, boo hoo.  Who cares, they are just little brown kids, right?
 
 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 10, 2018 - 6:40pm
@Ken:
”What about his faith scares you?  I am not a christian but his faith doesn't scare me.  He is a constitutionalist.  He isnl't going to suddenly convert america into a theocracy.”
 
Its not his faith that scares me.  I read how he converted and then became an intolerant twat.  Trump is bad, Pence is worse.
Ken Added Sep 10, 2018 - 10:59pm
as I have noted before - ever republican president since reagan is worse than the last for the health of the country, so why should Pence be any different if were to take over or be elected after Trump.
 
How has he been intolerant in such a way that it would impact his governing?  The problem is with intolerance - it is subjective.  The left keeps moving the goalpost on what intolerance is.  now it is "If you do not believe what we believe then you are intolerant."  You MUST accept gay marriage, you must sacrifice your principle or we will put you out of business if you don't.  You must be for open borders or you are a racist, and on and on.
 
The intolerance argument is just like the racism argument or the homophobe or islamaphoe or climate denier - all terms that designed to show the side that uses it superior moral position and silence any argument or discussion. If you disagree with their specific vision you are suddenly intolerant.  End of discussion!
Ken Added Sep 10, 2018 - 11:05pm
Radical Right
 
clearly you are finally differentiating the alt-right (white supremacist types) from the general conservative/constitutionalist, but what is the radical right?  Please define this.  Being a constitutiionalist SHOULD be the moderate position.  That should be the baseline position for the country.We have moved so far to the left that believing in what used to be our constitutional republic is now labeled as "radical right".  If this is not your term and tell me I am wrong.
Ken Added Sep 10, 2018 - 11:06pm

"I think We, the US citizenry  should come up with a Real Bipartisan Immigration Policy and then Enforce It. Namely make illegal immigration illegal. We wont need  the wall then"
 
Huh?  Why wouldn't we need a wall then?  The first level of protecting against illegal immigration is to prevent it in the first place.  Hence, A WALL!.
 
And if the left doesn't believe in open borders, why all the snctuary cities and sanctuary states and all of the groups like La Raza and others pushing as many across our southern border as possible?
Rusty Smith Added Sep 10, 2018 - 11:16pm
It's amazing how well the economy and employment have improved during Trump's Presidency, makes me wonder if all the bad traits we keep hearing about are really things that make the country better off.
 
When the news media thought a good guy was in office things were miserable by comparison.  Maybe they just don't know an effective style when they see it.
Bill H. Added Sep 10, 2018 - 11:19pm
"Radical Right" / "Alt Right"
Same thing to me, if one must use labels to be comfortable.
Gerrilea Added Sep 10, 2018 - 11:47pm
Jeffrey K-- My position is very logical and simple.  Take care of the Americans already here FIRST.  When every one of the 100+ million that have been forced out of the workforce get living wage jobs, then we'll let them in, as needed and as our capacity can handle.
 
Take care of us first.
 
And I'm anything but a "Trumping".  The only feelings I have left when it comes to politics is disgust and anger bordering on hatred.
 
As for how many we take in legally each year. That is set by Congress and the POTUS.  The limit was 85,000 but Trump reduced it to 45,000. But none of this includes the estimate 1 million that come here illegally each year.
 
Ken Added Sep 11, 2018 - 2:36am
so bill, you are saying anyone who supported Trump must be radical/alt right?  Are the lefties changing terminology again once their fraud was determined like the climate change fiasco?  Once onephrase doesn't work, just change it to another and start over again, correct?
 
So your definition of alt right or even radical right relates to NO ONE here discussing this on a constitutional basis then?  You are simply bomb throwing to distract from your lack of facts to back up your bias?
Ken Added Sep 11, 2018 - 2:39am
My position is very logical and simple.  Take care of the Americans already here FIRST.  When every one of the target="_blank">100+ million that have been forced out of the workforce get living wage jobs, then we'll let them in, as needed and as our capacity can handle.
 
 
much of that happened when Obama changed full time from 40 to 30 hrs/wk wouldn't let companies with 50 or more employees not purchase government health care, etc.  And while many were taking multiple minimum wage jobs with short hours to stay under 30 hrs for the employer?  Yea...Trump's fault all right...got it....
Gerrilea Added Sep 11, 2018 - 9:40am
Ken-- Are you okay?  Where did I say Trump did anything?? In fact, your claims are wrong on Obama, he gave hundreds of larger companies "exemptions" to Obamacare which were illegal. THEN he gave government subsidies to even more.  ALL were not allowed under the law he signed.  He was doing whatever he fucking wanted.
 
I was against Obamacare from the start.  It was a scam and gift to private for-profit "health insurance" corporations that gave Obama over $21 million in campaign donations and did nothing for the majority of us.
 
Trump is actually doing what I've said needed to be done decades ago.  Tariffs raised, deregulation and no more tax exemptions to move companies to slave-labored nations. All the things both Demorats & Rethugs supported and passed.
 
To be only slightly fair to Obama, he inherited the mess Paulson, Geitner and the Fed Chairman's created over the previous 2 decades, the planned destruction of our nation.  Sadly, he did nothing to prosecute the bastards.
 
Maybe Trump will be different or so "Q" keeps saying.
 
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 11, 2018 - 10:38am
Ken
 
"...much of that happened when Obama changed full time from 40 to 30 hrs/wk wouldn't let companies with 50 or more employees not purchase government health care, etc."
 
This kind of meddling and micromanagement reminds me of the EU, which is stagnant and going broke. 
 
Obama and his pair of AGs were racists and socialists who used racism and other tactics to push phony social programs like ACA. They failed so now Trump has shown the voters better alternatives that top-down Marxism, or worse, and I think they  will put the House in better shape so the president can tear down liberalism, known as libroolery in other terms. 
 
Capitalism will tear down liberalism. 
Gerrilea Added Sep 11, 2018 - 11:06am
Ryck--- We don't have capitalism, period.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 11, 2018 - 2:17pm
'rilla wants to upbraid me over immigration issues, one of the Ts "issues" to run on for the midterms.  Geezus, 'rilla...I realize you have fears surrounding "immigrants," and use all the rightist buzz words to define them.  Once again, you TRIED to cite the formal call for open borders, but failed, it was a lame cite.  Once again, you think if someone called for open borders, it would displace Trumpism in the news cycle, if for no other reason, Ts going on: "See? They are demanding open borders,"  You rightists would be turning yourselves inside out.   And have you just walked off an international flight to the US and right off to the baggage claim/parking, of late?  As to why people voted for Trump, your example doesn't make it so.  Why should anyone care about that town?  Flint, MI doesn't matter to rightists or Trumpists  That bad water is just hurting people of color, so it's a good thing, huh?  As long as it doesn't hurt "good white people," and hurts "the Other," then it's justice, eh?
Bill H. Added Sep 12, 2018 - 12:40pm
 
Gerrilea is right!
We no long have Capitalism.
What we have now is a combination of Corporatism and Fascism.
Ken Added Sep 12, 2018 - 1:26pm
What we have now is a combination of Corporatism and Fascism.
 
Well, if you want to get rid of the fascists, just expel all the leftists
Gerrilea Added Sep 12, 2018 - 2:21pm
Ken--- I think you got that backwards.  Fascist are the ones that own corporations and then run government.  Leftists want government to control corporations.  Or so I've been told.
 
There needs to be a mix of real capitalism and reasonable government controls to keep them from becoming the next Google or Amazon.
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 12, 2018 - 3:58pm
But, maybe Google or Amazon models are our future. 
Ken Added Sep 12, 2018 - 7:32pm
I think you got that backwards
 
Why do you assume corporations are not leftists?  some are, some aren't.  corporations aren't an ideology.
 
I don't have that backward.  The left is the side that wants big government to control every aspect of your life.  The left is where most of the violence comes.  One of the most fascist groups we have in america (regardless of their name) is antifa, the new enforcement arm of the democrat party.  It is fascist when your idea of tolerance is "You are only tolerant if you believe what we believe and you are (islamaphope, homophobe,misogynist,fill in the blank) if you don't"
 
There are example after example of the fascism of the left.  The right may disagree with your behavior or beliefs, but take the attitude of live and let live.  in the words of Thomas Jefferson "If he neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket, what business is it of mine?"
 
Most people on the right are not like Ryan and judgemental.  He was a poor example.  I don't care what your lifestyle is, just don't impose it on me.  That doesn't mean don't have a gay kiss in public as "imposing" that doesn't affect me.  That is along the lines of "If I am a christian, don't force me to bake a cake for something I believe is wrong" type imposition.
Bill H. Added Sep 12, 2018 - 8:41pm
 
Ken - You need to brush up on the definition of Fascists.
You certainly have it backwards!
Bill H. Added Sep 12, 2018 - 8:42pm
And did you know that ANTIFA is short for ANTIFASCIST?
Jeff Michka Added Sep 12, 2018 - 8:50pm
But ol Kenny has no problem imposing his lifestyle on others,  Yeah, Kenny, that's it...."leftists" want you to kiss gay men and want LAWS passed to make you do it.  Huh?  And all bakeries in the US MUST make cakes for gay marriages and worse, be same sex married, or they can't be bakers.  I know you raving  ERWs believe all sorts of shit that isn't true, Trump proves it daily, so believe what I just told you, and hold your manhood cheap.  You'll be soon forced to kiss gay men, right? If I was a gay man or woman wanting to be married, why would I want to do business with people that despise me?
Flying Junior Added Sep 13, 2018 - 6:30am
No wonder Ken is so easy to get along with.  He is an innocent.
 
Don't worry Ken.  Quite soon you will join the ranks of the hardcore fascist right and your talking points will all be rock solid and no dumb lefties will ever trip you up again.
 
It's a simple ideology it will only take a couple of weeks to learn.  Couple that with a blind faith in Trump and a hatred of the democratic party...
 
You'll be fine.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 15, 2018 - 9:23pm
@Ken:
”I don't have that backward.  The left is the side that wants big government to control every aspect of your life.”
 
Everyone in the left wants that?
Nice stereotype, dude.  That’s not what I want.  I sure am not on the right.
 
 
“The left is where most of the violence comes.”
 
LOL
Christ, you have to wonder where Trumplings get this crap.  A silly Kathy Griffin routine?  A lone crazed ex-Bernie supporter?  
 
“One of the most fascist groups we have in america (regardless of their name) is antifa,”
 
The Antifa is ANTI-FASCIST.  Google is your friend, Ken.  
 
“the new enforcement arm of the democrat party.”
 
So, the Charlottesville Neo-Nazi butt boys are the enforcement arm of the right?  Seems that way, all the Neo-Nazis  running for office are running as REPUBLICANS.
 

 “There are example after example of the fascism of the left.”
 
How can that be when Fascism is a right-wing movement?
 
“The right may disagree with your behavior or beliefs, but take the attitude of live and let live.  in the words of Thomas Jefferson "If he neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket, what business is it of mine?"
 
I’m sure it makes you feel better to think that is true.
 
“Most people on the right are not like Ryan and judgemental.  He was a poor example.”
 
Extreme, maybe.  Poor?  No, not really.  I live in a red state.  They all have Ryan in them to varying degrees.  Some are better than others.
 
 
“I don't care what your lifestyle is, just don't impose it on me.”
 
That’s admirable, I feel the same.
 
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 16, 2018 - 12:44pm
JK
 
"The Antifa is ANTI-FASCIST. "
 
The Antifa is FASCIST-criminals. 
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 16, 2018 - 2:08pm
@rycK the JFK Democrat
 
No, they don’t like right-wing radicals like the Neo-Nazis parading at Charlottesville.  The Antifa are radical leftists like the Nazi wannabes are radical rights.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 16, 2018 - 2:10pm
The Antifa are disgusting cowards and stooges of the drooling left. Jail these pigs .
Koshersalaami Added Sep 16, 2018 - 3:33pm
If the original Deep Throat as opposed to the current DT 2.0 came forward and resigned, Nixon would have finished out his second term. 
 
My objections to Trump aren’t partisan. For one thing, I agree with the idea of putting protectionism (tariffs) on the table, whether or not I think he’s using it very well. I don’t even object completely to the idea that we should have better relations with Russia - Putin’s initial election was a Russian reaction to extremely misguided post-Soviet American policy.
 
My objection is that he appears to have no use for democracy other than as a path to power. He is dishonest to an extent I’ve never seen in American politics, which is to say dishonest on an utterly insane level. He ignores the experts in place for him to use on a constant basis and is incurious about how things actually work, preferring to trust his fantasies. He has deliberately made nuclear war feasible. He is screwing up the living crap out of our relationships with allies in ways that are mostly pointless. He gets rid of our expertise resources, particularly at State. 
 
Any of these could be traits of a Democrat. These aren’t partisan, they’re about his own respect for his office. He can harm his country, not even out of ideology but out of fantasy-driven personal preference. 
 
We have people talking anonymously from the White House because Congress won’t limit this guy. If they were responsible, this wouldn’t be necessary.
Jeffrey Kelly Added Sep 16, 2018 - 9:55pm
@rycK the JFK Democrat:
”The Antifa are disgusting cowards”
 
So are the right-wing Hitler humpers.
 
“and stooges of the drooling left.”
 
The Neo-Nazis are the Republican Party with the makeup stripped off.
 
“Jail these pigs .”
 
With the Nazis.

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