Should colleges force students to take Ethnic Studies couses?

Recently a California University stopped requiring all students to take Ethnic Studies courses in order to graduate with ANY degree and social movement advocates are outraged.  I can see both sides.

 

The ethnic studies departments in many universities is huge and when students were forced to take those classes that department and all the staff it employees thrived.  If students are allowed to substitute other classes many will focus on classes that are more in line with their career goals, like math, engineering, and science classes, making the Ethnic Studies Department smaller and forcing layoffs.  Advocates also say that the only way to get many students to understand how important Ethnic issues are so that they will help heal the world, is by imparting these ideas to them when they are that young.

 

On the other hand students who are perusing majors and careers that have nothing to do with ethnic issues will have the opportunity to use that time and money to increase their knowledge in ways that will make them better at their chosen careers.  Opponents point out the fact that no one will be stopping students from taking those classes, and their are lots of students, especially minority students who select Ethnic Studies majors.  All that will change is that people with no interest will not be required to take those classes.

Comments

Autumn Cote Added Sep 15, 2018 - 6:02pm
Please note, it's against the rules to post articles to Writer Beat unless you comment on the work of others.  
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 15, 2018 - 6:12pm
If anyone wants to pursue education in those areas, there aren't any restrictions of which I am aware. Perhaps it is just my area of the country, but I don't see many organizations other than academic institutions seeking someone with a degree in something like women's studies, ethnic studies, or other similar areas. There are always the gen eds, those required courses you get through in the first year or two. Making those courses mandatory seems a little too authoritarian for me to handle. More and more companies are looking for people with technical skills, and anything else is useless to them. Tech is leading the way, and the liberal arts degrees aren't paying off, and for most of us, never did. Let the college student choose, that is what college should be about.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 15, 2018 - 8:26pm
Not just no but hell no. 
Tamara Wilhite Added Sep 16, 2018 - 1:04am
Should you have the option to take those courses? Yes.
Should you be FORCED to take them? No.
 
Based on flawed research warped for political ends, they want to recreate political indoctrination courses as a condition of graduation and employment. This is straight out of the Soviet Union. Now let's get on to the evidence for this.
 
There are even liberals who have found that the guilt-tripping followed by personal admission of privilege does not lead to people jumping into inner city schools to improve education for poor kids or giving more to charity.
 
Many focus on parroting the right statements for their personal safety from liberal bullies. Or they resent the systematic oppression of being forced to sit through classes that say "you're born with original sin, but you can't be redeemed like Christianity, just self-flagellate yourself and we'll tolerate your existence."
 
Reference: McIntosh as Synecdoche: How Teacher Education's Focus on White Privilege Undermines Antiracism
http://hepgjournals.org/doi/10.17763/haer.83.3.35054h14l8230574?code=hepg-site
 
These liberal guilt trips often come under other names like unconscious bias training and diversity training.
 
Unconscious bias training too often says we know you're secretly racist/sexist so just shut up and let us browbeat you for your race and gender. Diversity training too often becomes "see everyone based on their demographics, X and Y groups are identified as oppressors and should be shamed and shunned for it."
 
The prejudiced liberal elites are demanding that everyone be subjected to this political indoctrination, because they've been designing studies and co-opting others to try to prove their biases.
 
The tests they say prove everyone is secretly bigoted have major flaws. They aren't repeatable to the degree valid tests are. There are other explanations like poor reflex times in older people that account for some of their issues.

Dr. Jordan Peterson: The Dangers of Unconscious Bias Testing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veAPVuuUSUY
 
 
Benjamin Goldstein Added Sep 16, 2018 - 4:53am
I don't see both sides. The hell NO! Force chemistry classes down everybodies throat.
Cullen Kehoe Added Sep 16, 2018 - 5:40am
I had to take  2 ethnic studies courses in total for my bachelor's degree. It was good. I learned stuff I probably wouldn't have learned had I not. (Booker T. Washington, W.E.B. DuBois, George Washington Carver, etc...). I was forced to take a handful of other courses too (a course on the Arts, English, and others). 
 
I discovered random bits from a professor who went on tangents a lot (Freetown in Serria Leone was set up by the British as a place for free black slaves in the New World to go if they wanted.) Various stuff about Cecil B. Rhodes, not all of it positive, in South Africa. 
 
Many universities force students to take other random classes. Why not one or two on black or ethnic studies? 
John Minehan Added Sep 16, 2018 - 10:20am
I took a class in law school in Administrative Law that was required for the MBA I was taking at the same time.  I thought the class would be worthless, but I actually found it very interesting and it has helped me a number of times over the years.
 
Some times, required course are predictably useful even if they are seemingly tangential to your main intent (Financial Accounting or Statistics in an MBA focused on Health Systems). 
 
But sometimes they are UNpredictably useful  (Administrative Law to a transactional health care lawyer). 
 
Sometimes, you just don't know what will come in handy.
Steel Breeze Added Sep 16, 2018 - 11:44am
better off taking plumbing classes...
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 12:26pm
Jeff Jackson, I spoke to some people who worked in the local Ethnic Studies Department and they believe everyone needs to be more aware of ethnic issues like oppression, racism, gender discrimination, and the importance of maintaining what they call fair representation of all oppressed minorities in all businesses and institutions.
 
According to them if we don't make all college students take these enlightening classes many more of them will grow up without the type of values necessary to stop them from becoming racists. 
 
As an example one told me that after people are taught about the horrible wrongs to some minority groups, they are much more inclined to understand and accept EEO programs without resentment.  Without the classes many would not realize what we owe minorities for past injustices, and would be offended by contemporary efforts to compensate them for those injustices.
 
They also point out that many of the classes teach tolerance which is never a bad thing.  By highlighting how we can appease people who are different they are helping us acquire the skills we will need to be successful at life.
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 12:31pm
Tamara, I too believe it should be optional if for no other reason than it's their money and most students majors have absolutely nothing to do with anything they teach in that department. 
 
I know they think an engineering student's college education is not complete if they don't take Ethnic Studies classes, but don't agree that they can't be a great engineer without knowing anything that department teaches. 
 
Some of those classes might explain the reasons why minority students often get admitted to colleges with less qualifications, but they don't need to know things like that in order to be an engineer.
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 12:34pm
Cullen, I don't know what you're bachelors is in, but please tell us and explain how you believe your mandated Ethnic Studies class will help you?
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 12:36pm
John M, I can see how the class you took could help you.  Can you think of a way an ethnic studies class might have also be able to help you in your chosen career, more than perhaps allowing you to take another business class?
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 12:38pm
Steel, I do think everyone should be required to take some basic mechanical classes and am sad that most middle and high schools no longer offer shop classes. 
 
I think everyone would be better off and most taken advantage of a whole lot less if they knew more about things like how their cars worked.
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 12:51pm
I've always felt that colleges were where young adults learned the higher skills necessary to do jobs that can't really be learned though an apprenticeship, by focusing on sciences, math, chemistry, physics, law, and other topics in much more detail than is needed by most employees.  They are also places to deep dive into other subjects like the humanities, art, and yes even ethnic studies if students want to spend their money to become more educated in those areas.
 
Currently I think the lower grades though High School is where very basic things like math, science and yes social indoctrination take place.  I wish they would focus more on job related skills and less on trying to impart their own social and political values on our children.
 
I am not pleased with the amount of time spent on social and political indoctrination in any of our schools and greatly displeased by the efforts to extend that indoctrination into our colleges and universities.  They are suppose to be institutions of higher learning, not political conversion seminaries.
 
It costs a fortune to get a degree, and no student or their family should have to pay the colleges for teaching them about things that they have no interest in and do not contribute towards their career goals.
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 16, 2018 - 2:21pm
I second the Captains Hell No!  It is just part of the common theme...everything is at the end of a barrel - both literally and euphemistically. Education as a whole has become a racket, "higher" education especially. Mo prereqs equals mo monay, bro!
Lindsay Wheeler Added Sep 16, 2018 - 2:23pm
Yes, Cullen you took Ethnic Studies programs---but you don't know diddly-squat about Western Culture!  
 
Colleges and Universities are now Propaganda Mills hostile to Western Culture and Civilization. The Greeks and the Romans are DWEMs, Dead White European Males and are forbidden to read about!  
 
Colleges and Universities are just Marxist Training camps. That is what Ethnic Studies programs are---instill hate into the minorities for the WASPs that built this country. All the colleges are infected with PeeCee.
George N Romey Added Sep 16, 2018 - 3:44pm
Do ethnic classes separate people even more? I’m starting to see this trend that being an American means less than where your ancestors lived 200 years ago.
Bill Kamps Added Sep 16, 2018 - 4:30pm
I think no.  Students PAY for their education and should have maximum freedom to choose the classes they want, once they have satisfied the requirements for their  degree.  If Ethnic studies are not fundamental to the students degree, then it should be optional.
 
That would be like forcing someone getting a degree in English, or anthropology to have to take Calculus.
Tamara Wilhite Added Sep 16, 2018 - 5:13pm

Lindsay Wheeler Agreed.
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 5:14pm
Burghal, I too think higher education has become a racket even thought I am degrees. 
 
Today's "educational system" is focusing far too much on shaping the minds of students so they end up thinking politically correct thoughts, and not enough teaching them real job skills.  In addition higher education prices are way way out of control somewhat for the same reasons home prices spiraled way out of control until 2008 when they came back down to earth.
 
Almost everyone agrees it's better to have a degree than not, but these days I really question the value to most students, especially those who get degrees in things like ethnic studies and art.  I often think they money they spend would have done much much more to secure their future if they invested it in a retirement account.  The average kid graduates with enough debt to pay for a condo or house, and uses pitifully little of what they learn in school on the job.
 
The teachers unions hardly help, teachers get paid very well considering it's a 9 month a year job with full pay and benefits to die for.  Unfortunately students have to support them at those outrageous prices.  Even online classes where a professor sits at home and follows routine curriculum reading with premade tests, cost as much as attending college in classrooms.  Colleges are raking in the money and students are getting the shaft.
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 5:21pm
Lindsay, most ethnic studies classes have little to do with traditional Western Culture and real history.  They are very tightly focused on a sociopolitical way of looking at the world that often defies a realistic historical perspective.  They concentrate on people and events that are often statistical anomalies in their attempt to make minority culture appear to be far more important than it actually is in contemporary society.
 
History has always been taught using cherry picked examples that support the view we'd like to have of how our culture developed but in those classes they shift the focus so they can stress the importance of people and events that are not fair representations.
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 5:26pm
George, schools are trying to teach us that our cultural heritage, weather from Africa, or Mexico is much more important than being an American, but I hope it doesn't work.  First we need to all be Americans. 
 
The schools are making us into a divided society, even teaching in multiple languages so that for instance, Mexicans, don't have to learn English in order to be in our county.  The concept of a melting pot where everyone morphs from whatever their previous culture was into Americans is very un-PC these days.  Unfortunately that also teaches us that we are different and that fosters racism.
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 5:34pm
George, where I live I just have to open my eyes to see origin based racism.  I see Mexican flags all over around where I live, in many parts of So. Cal they are more common than American flags, even on business windows.
 
Today I was at one store trying to ask a question at the counter in a shop staffed by Hispanics.  They were talking and ignored me.  My friend came by and I said something about not being able to get their attention and my friend said, "yea, you don't speak Spanish".  He was right, I'm obviously not Hispanic and that treatment is common in many stores but then again I like shopping for some things in Hispanic parts of town because they are less expensive.  If I get too fed up don't go back to those stores.
 
In some of our schools Mexican flags abound, and there has actually been trouble when white kids wear shirts with American flags, because the staff will make them turn them inside out so they don't offend Mexican students.  Sometimes it even makes the news when it happens and I agree, if a Mexican flag is ok so should an American flag be ok.
Leroy Added Sep 16, 2018 - 7:45pm
I would worry about the ethics of those teaching ethics.  I don't see an issue with a university imposing requirements.  They typically require some proficiency in the English language and mathematics.  Why not ethics?  I would prefer philosophy with the option to take such classes as Ethics.  It's really not necessary to teach ethics today. The larger companies typically teach their own version of it.  My prior company required annual ethics training.  In recent years, it has been online training; however, I understand that it will be group training this year.  And, all of us have been through at least diversity training.
Cullen Kehoe Added Sep 16, 2018 - 9:10pm
@Riley - I have a degree in MIS / I.T. development from the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater. I don't use the information I used in those classes directly in my job, no. 
 
However, since I.T. is male dominated and women are few and far between, I learned in my "Women's Studies" class that women are very sensitive. You can't say things in front of them for fear of them saying you're creating a "hostile work environment" for them.
 
Growing up in an all male household and told by society that women are just as good as men at all things (and basically the same as men) I would have thought I could say anything I wanted because men aren't very sensitive. But women are. So you're best off counterintuitively NOT treating them like one of the boys, but simply let your yes be yes and no be no. 

But the broader point is the same argument used for the religious. Know your Bible (history) so when con men come along and twist things around, you can spot it from a mile away and know they're full of it. If you don't know what, for example, black people went through in American history, when leftists who want to twist things around come along you can know why they're wrong. 
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 10:10pm
Cullen, I think in most business situations you have to consider the possibility that everyone, men and women might be extra sensitive and just be discrete whenever you aren't intimately familiar with someone else's style. 
 
I didn't learn that in some ethics class, I just found out life is a whole lot easier if you try to treat people nicely, especially in work situations.
Riley Brown Added Sep 16, 2018 - 10:15pm
Leroy, I don't think the purpose of Ethnic Studies classes it to teach ethics, but rather to stress a sociopolitical view and back it up with examples so that hopefully the students will think like the people who teach the classes want them to think. 
 
Every company I've worked at has said they want solid honest ethical behaviors but the truth is they want to maximize profit and minimize their own liability and encourage many employees to be dishonest to achieve that end.  Most of the ethical training I have received at companies was strictly Cover Their Behind training, so they could say and document the fact that everyone was properly trained.  
Ward Tipton Added Sep 16, 2018 - 10:55pm
Forcing people to study very objective and biased visions of professional victimhood as absolute fact and gospel truth ... what could possibly go wrong? 
Tamara Wilhite Added Sep 16, 2018 - 11:30pm

Cullen Kehoe  I have an engineering degree and work in IT. I'm also a woman and mother of 2.
 
I get flak or outright hate from feminists who consider me a traitor, because I'm conservative.Then there's the insanity of getting attacked by both side of the Mommy wars for downshifting to a part time job in IT. Given how hard it was to work my way into this work-life balance, you'd think I'd be applauded.
 
Liberal bullies see me as a bad role model because I put family ahead of top income and career (yes, husband works, is an engineer, too.) Stay at home moms say just quit, join us. At least the far right is more understanding of "no, can't go that far" or accepts the "husband works in utilities/construction, often unemployed, we need my income.)
 
Liberal bullies don't get that I fit in with a lot of the other engineers because they tend to be conservative. That I like (and write) science fiction, horror and tech makes me unusual for a woman.  And to liberals, to discuss sex based differences except "this makes women better and men bad/toxic" isn't allowed.
 
I've had discussions with my daughter's troop and other girls that the "women aren't in tech because it is hostile" isn't true. By claiming it is evil oppression, they're scaring girls AWAY from trying ... those who do are sticking in scared, sensitive ghettos. I'm often the only engineer / IT person who has talked to my kids' classes, and certainly the only woman in that role. These feminists aren't seeking people to do that or trying to improve math and science education for K-12 where both girls and POC tend to do worse.
 
No, just say it is because those bad meanies are excluding you and demand to be let in. But if you exclude them from nursing, education and so forth, female dominated professions, that's considered fine and fair. And they continue to think this despite the real harm it does to the people they want to help.
 
If you're afraid to talk to people, if they're afraid to talk to you, you're less effective and end up doing worse. When these women turn around and blame everyone else for it, seeing it as validation of the oppressor/victim narrative, no one will want them around. Here's your severance, here's your lawsuit payoff. And do everything possible never to hire anyone like that again ... which may end up being "any woman".
 
The authoritarian left is fostering the victim/oppressor role because it gives them power. Be afraid of all these people who want to hurt you and are hurting you, trust us, depend on us, do whatever we say because we love you and want to help you. It is really a cult mentality and emotional abuse.
 
That it ends up scaring girls away from tech or, at best, working at a nonprofit in IT because anything else is immoral/dangerous ... is a foreseeable result of their indoctrination to anyone but them.
TexasLynn Added Sep 17, 2018 - 7:56am
Riley >> I don't think the purpose of Ethnic Studies classes it to teach ethics, but rather to stress a sociopolitical view...
 
It just goes to show you when it comes to this crap things are always worse than you think they are.  While I would have assumed leftist bias in such classes, I also would have assumed that the basic class was about general ethics and historical and practical examples.
 
If my assumption was the case, I would still be against requiring the classes, think that if a you man/woman didn't have "ethics" by the time they reached college, it's too late.
 
If what you say is true... and it's really all about "sociopolitical" indoctrination (my words); then not requiring students to take the classes would be the beginning of the action needed.
 
I would advocate for the entire departments to be gutted and disbanded.
 
When I was in college many, many, years ago... my college required so many hours (a few classes) in liberal arts for non-liberal arts majors and basic math and a basic computer class for liberal arts majors.  I thought that was a good idea.  But then those classes were objectively intended to help students be a bit more well-rounded.
 
Riley... you write these things, get me better informed, and reinforce my deduction that this nation/civilization is doomed, and the fault lies greatly with the left.
Dino Manalis Added Sep 17, 2018 - 8:47am
 No, high schools should require students to take humanities in their senior year, while ethnic studies in college should be electives and not required.
Riley Brown Added Sep 17, 2018 - 9:53am
Tamara I don't think liberals and feminists dislike you because you're well educated, more likely it's because your lifestyle is contrary to many of their arguments and you can't be easily bull shitted or intimidated into submission.  They don't like anyone who stands up to them, not just strong women.
 
Remember in their minds you're just a victim of a society that will never allow you to be as successful as a man, just because you have breasts instead of a dick.  If you don't play that part and bitch with them, you are the enemy.
Riley Brown Added Sep 17, 2018 - 9:53am
Dino,  I think colleges need to get out of politics and social engineering and get back to providing students with educational classes that they want.  
 
If someone has the money and wants to pay for classes so they can learn about ethnic studies topics, or art and dance for that matter, I think that's fine, but none of that should be mandatory for students whose interest and career goals are don't include those subjects.
 
We already attempt to mold our children's social and political values right up to High School.  The students that go from there to College don't need any more indoctrination, they need higher learning opportunities at reasonable prices.
 
Many students notice that it usually takes more than 4 years to get a 4 year degree, and of course more money too.  Perhaps that wouldn't be true, and more students could afford to get higher educations, if they didn't have to take and pay for all those USELESS classes.
FacePalm Added Sep 17, 2018 - 6:49pm
Riley-
Unless a course is relevant to the career path you have chosen in college, then i can't see ANY course being made "mandatory."  What's next for leftist professors?  Teaching white self-hatred?  Oh, wait, too late...
 
Personally, i make a distinction between schooling and education, and here's one of the reasons:
 
“All schools, all colleges, have two great functions: to confer, and to conceal valuable knowledge; the knowledge which they conceal cannot justly be regarded as less valuable than that which they reveal.”
~ Samuel Langhorne Clemens(Mark Twain) notebook, 1908.
 
here's a few more:
"Education is a private matter between the person and the world of knowledge and experience, and has little to do with school or college."
-- Lillian Smith(1897-1966) American writer and social critic

"My grandmother wanted me to have an education, so she kept me out of school."
-- Margaret Mead(1901-1978) American cultural anthropologist and author

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
-- Mark Twain[Samuel Langhorne Clemens] (1835-1910)
 
here's another:
"The mania for giving the Government power to meddle with the private affairs of cities or citizens is likely to cause endless trouble, through the rivalry of schools and creeds that are anxious to obtain official recognition, and there is great danger that our people will lose our independence of thought and action which is the cause of much of our greatness, and sink into the helplessness of the Frenchman or German who expects his government to feed him when hungry, clothe him when naked, to prescribe when his child may be born and when he may die, and, in time, to regulate every act of humanity from the cradle to the tomb, including the manner in which he may seek future admission to paradise."
-- Mark Twain, [Samuel Langhorne Clemens] (1835-1910)
 
and another:
 
"For in a Republic, who is 'the country?'  Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle?  Why, the Government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them."
-- Mark Twain[Samuel Langhorne Clemens] (1835-1910)
 
and another:
"My kind of loyalty was to one's country, not to its institutions or its officeholders. The country is the real thing, the substantial thing, the eternal thing; it is the thing to watch over, and care for, and be loyal to; institutions are extraneous, they are its mere clothing, and clothing can wear out, become ragged, cease to be comfortable, cease to protect the body from winter, disease, and death."
-- Mark Twain[Samuel Langhorne Clemens] (1835-1910)
 
Many in colleges - from presidents to un-tenured staff - presume authority over you, and demand that you obey them "or else."  This is one definition of government, which is why i included so much wisdom from ol' Sam...he provides an excellent framework - if not solid ground - upon which to stand, build, and repel their assumptions and presumptions.
Frosty Wooldridge Added Sep 17, 2018 - 11:31pm
Travel the world to get the 'real' understanding of 'ethnic studies'. A classroom gives little in the reality of diversity and multiculturalism.  Ethnic Studies equates to 'basket weaving' courses for football players to keep them eligible to bash each other's heads into pulp and score touchdowns to make money for the university.  Life in Chicago or LA or NYC or Miami will give you plenty of ethnic studies.
Red Six Standing By Added Sep 18, 2018 - 6:40am
Ethnic Studies classes are BS, full of unreproducible "social science" and nonsense unproven ideas about racism. 
 
They offer no benefit to anyone.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 18, 2018 - 7:17am
My kindergarten child is not old enough to be able to determine a viable dinner menu, but we should allow drag queens in to speak with them "for a couple of hours" and then ask her to decide what gender she "identifies" with? 
 
My child needs Doctor permission to get an aspirin but can get an abortion without my knowledge or consent?
 
If the teacher sees a bruise, my child can be taken away at great personal financial and emotional cost to me, so she can be lost in the "CPS" (Child "PROTECTIVE" Services? Who the frack do they think they are kidding?) system in the name of "protecting" her? 
 
If by some miracle ... and against my better judgment, does some day attend University,  you can rest assured I most certainly will not be paying for any courses that promote the insanity I mentioned previously in this comment ... and yes, before anyone jumps on the bandwagon, I know there are times and occasions when CPS has helped a child in need ... but there are far too many occasions when they have not ... without any accountability! 
Riley Brown Added Sep 18, 2018 - 10:14am
Frosty I think the whole idea is that colleges don't believe most people are capable of properly embracing their own PC sociopolitical view of things like social justice if they are allowed to experience the world on their own.
 
If they give college students a choice most would only focus on and purchase classes that they thought would help their career paths.
 
The only way they get a captive audience they can indoctrinate is by forcing students to pay for and take classes they don't want.
 
I think they already do enough of that in public schools before they get to college.
 
People working in those departments also realize most of them would lose their jobs if ALL students weren't required to take their classes.
Riley Brown Added Sep 18, 2018 - 10:16am
Red Six, I concur, I see very little content that I don't consider very biased and unrealistic.  Certainly not information I think everyone needs to know about once they get out in the real world.
Riley Brown Added Sep 18, 2018 - 10:21am
Ward, my own family experiences have shown me how much of what you talked about is true.
 
I know CPS prevents real abuse all the time but have also seen their staff gleefully put very good parents through hell over stupidity and not even offer an apology when the truth comes out.  If parents are forced to spend tens of thousands on attorneys to prove their innocence, CPS representatives not only don't care, but strangely can not be sued for their own mismanagement of cases.
Frosty Wooldridge Added Sep 18, 2018 - 10:35am
“The reason why multiculturalism exists is to pretend that
inferior cultures aren’t inferior and that superior cultures
aren’t superior. It’s a way to tell nice lies about rotten cultures and rotten lies about great cultures. And from this, we’ve set ourselves up not only to believe the enemy propaganda that ‘Islam means peace’, but to propagate it ourselves, all the while blaming ourselves for the enemy’s war on us.”
~ Bosch Fawstin ~
TexasLynn Added Sep 18, 2018 - 11:47am
Frosty... that's one of the best definitions of "multiculturalism" I've every heard.
Ian Thorpe Added Sep 18, 2018 - 11:57am
Ward, your mention of the CPS made me smile, in Britain those letters stand for Crown Prosecution Service and far too often in recent decades people put into the 'care' system by the authorities have described their experience as being like a prison sentence.
Things were so bad at one stage that a joke in circulation suggested the most important qualification for people who wanted to work in the 'care' system was a criminal record for child sex offences.
Ian Thorpe Added Sep 18, 2018 - 12:31pm
Riley, there's a lot to say on this topic but I'll have to keep my comment brief, I have a pressing appointment with a beach.
I haven't heard of ethnic studies classes before, perhaps it hasn't reached the UK yet, but it sounds to me as irrelevant as subjects like 'feminist studies', 'gay and lesbian history' and 'political science.'
We would have a problem with running meaningful courses in ethnic studies over this side of The Altantic of course, there are so many ethnic groups in the mix.
Apparently most north Europeans get about 30% of their genes from the Indian sub continent, but massive movements of people's took place from about 10,000 BC to the dark ages.
The Celts (not a discrete ethnic group but a culture,) are believed to have originated in northern India and spread to the western fringes of Europe. The Visigoths (western goths) migrated over several centuries from central Europe, getting as far as north Africa, the Ostergoths (eastern goths), according to studies in pre history, started around The Black Sea (Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine,) and established an empire across western Russia and the Baltic states. And these people were all enthusuasically mixing DNA with the locals throughout their journeys.
I suspect the teaching of 'ethic studies' will be an excercise in bigging up Africa and Africans. If that is so it is important we renegades and outcasts in new media keep reminding people that 'African' is not a race, there are many ethnic groups in Africa and a lot of them seem to have difficulty living in proximity to other, similarly coloured tribal groups.
 
FacePalm Added Sep 18, 2018 - 2:08pm
Frosty-
i agree with TexasLynn; that citation was brilliant, so i've pasted it into my collection of quotes.  Just used it, in fact, in a conversation with my uncle about the foreign and domestic foes of America i see now - the globalists allied with the Chicoms on one side, and the temporary alliance of globalists with radical Islamic jihadists on the other, all working toward the establishment - whether they know it or not - of the satanist OWG...but off-topic for this thread.
Riley Brown Added Sep 18, 2018 - 6:08pm
Ivan the primary focus of Ethnic Studies is to explain how many times people from minority groups have made important contributions to our country and teach us how important it is for non-minorities to to give minorities head starts so the can compete on an equal basis.  In the US that pretty much means Black and Hispanic people, sometimes women qualify too.
 
Educators go to great lengths to find people from those races who have done or participated in important events.  In many cases it turns into over glorification of qualifying minorities who do the same things non majorities have been doing forever, but it's special because they are a minority. 
 
They also focus on discrimination, making sure no one forgets past transgressions, and making sure we all feel guilty and acknowledge the fact that some minorities will never get over what was done to their ancestors.  On one hand they tell us their favorite minorities are just as smart and capable as everybody else, and on the other they usually insist they can't compete fairly if we don't give them competitive advantages, or pretend they are just as well qualified as non minorities with higher test scores, no criminal records, or educations in things like engineering instead of Ethnic Studies.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 18, 2018 - 7:02pm
Oh gee, Riley and other rightists, students should be forced, at gun point if needed, to take ethnic studies until they know they aren't any different than another ethnic group and can be as badly treated by them as they would badly treat an ethnic group on their own behalf.  Then after ethnic courses, they need to be forced to learn how to be good Marxists, or maybe Leninists or Stalinists, perhaps Maoists, advocating mass executions of the "white class," of course.  They must be taught the only good words are those words benefiting the collective good.  Word?  You rightists all have one foot in the grave.  LOL
Ken Added Sep 18, 2018 - 7:46pm
Just curious - does anyone know if there have ever been a caucasian ethnic studies or American ethnic studies college course that wasn't all abobout white privilege and the patriarchal hierarchy?
Ward Tipton Added Sep 18, 2018 - 9:24pm
Of course not Ken ... that would be lacking in political expediency so need not apply! 
 
White Congressional Caucus? 
National Association for the Advancement of Caucasian People
White Liberation Theology
White History Month?
 
RACIST BASTAHDS!!! But enter the minority/victim class du jour ... and voila! Ethnic Diversity ... even if the diversity is through segregation and the inclusion through exclusion ... now where have we seen that before? Orwell comes to mind ... maybe CS Lewis? 
Ward Tipton Added Sep 18, 2018 - 9:39pm
Ian, have you by chance had occasion to examine any of the vast number of artifacts constantly being pulled up from the floor of the English Channel ... most dating back to a time when it was dry land? 
 
I have only studied it very briefly some time ago, but I do recall being fascinated by the subject ... unfortunately I had to discover other means by which I could continue my work and be compensated in return so did not follow up as much as I would have liked ... maybe have to try to find some time to revisit that now that I think about it. 
Riley Brown Added Sep 18, 2018 - 9:47pm
Many years ago I accompanied a poor white student who was going to have to drop out of college because they could not afford to stay while he went to the "financial aid office" at my suggestion.  His parents weren't helping and his own resources had been depleted. 
 
When we got there someone came to the counter and he asked about financial aid, and the person said, "but you are white".  We countered, "does that make a difference", and he said, "I don't know".  He went back and conferred with other people there who told us they didn't know, because they had never processed an application from a white student.
 
They gave him an application, but he never got any help.
 
I know things are different now, and my friend eventually did get a degree, as a working adult many years later, but I can say I know what it feels like to be see assistance denied to people of the wrong color.
Flying Junior Added Sep 19, 2018 - 3:48am
Ethnic Studies classes are BS, full of unreproducible "social science" and nonsense unproven ideas about racism. 
 
They offer no benefit to anyone.
 
How the fuck would you know, Red Six Standing For Bullshit?
Flying Junior Added Sep 19, 2018 - 3:52am
Riley,
 
You have so many wonderful anecdotes that support your rightist views.  Nice hat tip to reverse racism.  No financial aid to white kids.  Right.
 
 
Ward Tipton Added Sep 19, 2018 - 7:05am
Actually, Riley and FJ - 
 
When my first wife kicked me out, filing false charges along the way ... repeatedly ... even long after I was gone ... so her preacher could move in with her ... before he stole all the jewelry she had bitched about me buying ... but loved showing off to her friends ... and gave it to another friend's wife before leaving my wife and moving in with his after my friend had been kicked out by his wife for the very same pastor ... 
 
She had the bank accounts, she had Hispanic Legal Services and she had a job ... which with her filing multiple charges against me, I no longer did ... 
 
When I went to legal aid, that was exactly what they said to me ... "Ummmmmmm ... but sir ... you are white!" 
 
Aid? Never gonna happen. Sorry, but reality is a harsh mistress. 

Ken Added Sep 19, 2018 - 8:14am
Orwell comes to mind ... maybe CS Lewis?
 
Please expound upon this.  I see no similarities between the two.  Orwell was constantly warning about totalitarian statism and CSL was talking about morality from a Christian world view.
Ken Added Sep 19, 2018 - 8:16am
Nice hat tip to reverse racism. 
 
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS REVERSE RACISM.
 
Racism is racism.  Period.  Racism can come in any form, any gender, any race.  You are implying that Whites are the only ones that can be racist and anyone else that displays these attributes are "reverse racists".  The caucasian is the "original sinner".
 
This is a LIE and a FALSE NARRATIVE.
 
As are most of your debunked ideological views.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 19, 2018 - 8:38am
Does the Ministry of Truth or MiniTru ring a bell? 1984?
 
"diversity is through segregation and the inclusion through exclusion"
 
You asked about Caucasian Ethnic Studies ... I mentioned it is not "POLITICALLY" expedient ... the Statists ... people who believe in large government ... CS Lewis and Orwell both wished to warn us against the State ... an omniscient state. Caucasian Ethnic Studies ... does not fit the political narrative of the state ... 
Riley Brown Added Sep 19, 2018 - 10:12am
Flying Jr, regarding your question, "No financial aid to white kids.  Right."
 
I can't say because I wasn't familiar with the rules back then but obviously my friend was one of the first white people to try at that office and he didn't qualify at that time.
 
Today financial aid has completely different rules and I think some of them are equally unfair.  The rule that considers the affluence of the parents even if the child is living on their own and not receiving any assistance from their family, is absurd.  I've had more than one friend in that position.
 
In fact one of the requirements for applying is that the parents full financial portfolio must not only be presented so they can evaluate you holdings, but that also makes it available for your children, and often even classmates to see.  If your parents are unwilling to share all their bank and investment info with you and the school, you're not eligible to apply.  One of my friends qualified for a free  year of college but had to pay for it herself because they wouldn't give it to her until her parents gave them their financials, and they wouldn't.  Of course if your parents are dirt poor,  you don't have that problem and qualify for lots of financial aid.
 
The system also penalizes  students who have saved for college.  If you have saved money, your share of your tuition increases.  Savvy students empty their bank accounts long before they apply.
 
Another travesty is the single mom discount.  It's not really a discount but here is how it works.  The children of single parents don't have to count their father's income if they do things right.  As a result the children of single moms, even those who just never got married but still live as a family in a nice neighborhood, and drive fancy cars, pay far less tuition than those from families where the parents are married.  In fact it can get really low if mom is not a working mom, even if she drives a Lexus and lives in a $400K house. 
 
If financial aid was based on need it would only consider the student's real ability to pay.
Ian Thorpe Added Sep 19, 2018 - 3:03pm
Riley, when you replied to Ivan did you mean me? I've often been accused of being a fan of Vladimir Putin but I've never thought of changing nationality :-)
You describe 'ethnic studies' pretty much as I expected it would be.
Within the past couple of years, I can't remember when exactly, there has been a kerfuffle at University College London (UCL) about the discriminatory nature of the portraits of notable graduates, who are predominantly white and male. The University, primarily a scientific research facility and part of the federal University of London, was founded in 1826 and though their were few people of the dark skinned races resident in Britain for most of its existence, it was the first University in Britain to accept women students.
The list of alumni includes a strong contingent of non British names, so the place can hardly be described as 'Brits only.'
The concern of many people when left wing activists started to complain that BAMEs (Black and Minority Ethnic) were under - represented in the portrait hall was that non Europeans were likely to be elevated on the strength of trivial achievements, devaluing the honour for the sake of some spurious notion of equality.
One of the problems, I fear, is that a lot of people remain convinced that black and white are actually ethnicities.
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 19, 2018 - 3:07pm
Whose ethics should we use?
Ian Thorpe Added Sep 19, 2018 - 3:16pm
Ward, I'm aware of the discoveries being made in the North Sea and English Channel, but it's not something I follow closely. I do recall about five years ago, evidence of early humans (probably homo erectus) dated to between 800,000 and 900,000 years ago being found on the present coast of East Anglia.
Things have gone very quiet on that since people started commenting that it debunks the 'Out of Africa' theory because its generally believe that alleged migration happened about 250,000 to 300,000 years ago.
The Happisburgh find is not conclusive of anything of course, but Out of Africa theory and other questionable interpretations of evidence usually presented as unquestionable facts are supported by equally flimsy  evidence.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 19, 2018 - 3:19pm
Ian Thorpe
 
Afrocentrism is already sanctioned by the far left. That ends the discussion .
Jeff Michka Added Sep 19, 2018 - 7:03pm
Well, syck ryck, as long as your morals aren't followed, we migt stand a small chance.   Speaking of flimsy evidence, tell us again what makes you a JFK Democrat.  I can't envision JFK even using you for an asswipe, so disabuse me of that notion.  I'm sure whatever you reply will get cheers and kudos from your fellow rightists.
Ian Thorpe Added Sep 20, 2018 - 10:47am
ryck, it does make intelligent discussion difficult but as long as there are a few sites where censorship is not practiced and we are thick skinned enough to put up with the feeble attemps of leftists to insult us, there#s hope.
Riley Brown Added Sep 20, 2018 - 11:43am
Ivan, I suggest ignoring the people who for whatever reason only seem interested in provoking other posters by insulting them in any way possible. 
 
They don't add to forums they only clutter them up with the same type of insults that they repeat rater randomly at whoever they think they can bait into getting angry and responding.
 
By now you probably recognize them and don't even need to read what they write since it's always the same dribble.  I often imagine some are just immature children who giggle with joy at the thought of them being able to upset adults.  That possibility also tempers my thoughts when it comes to what kind of response would be appropriate if they are just children.  If we get lucky maybe their Mom will discover what they have been doing and take their computer privileges away for a while.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 20, 2018 - 5:38pm
Ian Thorpe
 
"ryck, it does make intelligent discussion difficult but as long as there are a few sites where censorship is not practiced and we are thick skinned enough to put up with the feeble attemps of leftists to insult us, there#s hope."
 
Afrocentrism is defined as being totally correct without evidence or comment and any attempt to derail this must  be a heinous act of racism. 
 
"... put up with the feeble attemps of leftists to insult us, there#s hope."
 
Their attempts are not all that feeble, but most of the time we can simply refute their comments based on facts. We do not have to be insulted by their authorized rants--just ignore the intent and turn the comment into something our side can use. 
 
Censorship is a crude mechanism of covering up negative comments which always seem to irritate the left, particularly the communists. There are plenty of sites that do not try to muzzle the right or center. 
 
 
 
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 20, 2018 - 5:42pm
Ancient Humans Lived in China 2.1 Million Years Ago

The discovery of stone tools—the oldest ever found outside of Africa—dramatically shifts the story of hominin migration, researchers say.--https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/07/early-humans-left-africa-250000-years-earlier-than-thought/564896/
Ian Thorpe Added Sep 21, 2018 - 9:15am
Riley, (translation below)

Почему ты продолжаешь называть меня Ивана, я не обижаюсь, просто любопытно.
Я был в Сети долгое время и имел почти каждое оскорбление в левом крыле, которое было брошено на меня. Странно, когда я получаю творческий подход к своим ответам, например, когда я назвал покойного, великого Джона Дж, «отброса», сосавшего икру обложек шлюхи, «они очень расстроились. Это зависть, я полагаю, способность мыслить для себя должна казаться им чем-то вроде сверхдержавы.

 
Why do you keep calling me Ivan, I'm not offended, just curious.
I've been around the web a long time and had just about every insult in the left wing repertoire thrown at me. Strange thing is when I get creative with my responses, like the time I called the late, great John G 'scum sucking spawn of a pox whore's scab louse,' they get very upset. It's envy I suppose, the ability to think for oneself must seem to them a kind of superpower.

(BTW I don't speak or write Russia, did that with Google translate for a laugh.)

 
Ian Thorpe Added Sep 21, 2018 - 9:29am
ryck, I've read that too and it seems a fairly substantial theory, there are many other discoveries that cast doubt on the Out Of Africa narrative too. I guess we shall never know for certain, but when people start making up 'facts' to serve a political agenda they must be challenged. 
The mistake lefties make is assuming that anyone who questions that theory is trying to suggest humanity began in Europe with fair haired white people. In fact, while some discoveries have been made in northern Europe, the Indian sub continent, China, eastern Siberia, Indonesia and Australia are all stronger candidates for the original home of modern humans.
Jeff Michka Added Sep 22, 2018 - 4:43pm
Much like Schlitz Brewing's ad campaign, When you're Out of Africa, you're out of beer...Send 'em all back to Indonesia...