Humpty Dumpty is Falling of The Wall, the down fall of USA and western civilization

Recently saw a video and then found a review of the book: America: The Farewell Tour by Chris Hedges.  He presents the evidence of the USA in a death spiral that will be complete when the Dollar is no longer the standard of exchange. England had a death spiral starting about the time of WWI and ending with the failure to take back the Suez Canal and the loss of the Pound Sterling as the currency of exchange. He says that the 'corporate international state' that presides over the western nations is causing the failure of capitalism (free market economics). It is destructive ruthless and relentless force that consumes the population, and places the start at about 40 years ago, “It practices only the politics of vengeance. It uses coercion, fear, violence, police terror and mass incarceration as forms of social control while it cannibalizes the nation and the globe for profits,” there is “no institutions left in America that can authentically be called democratic,” and “the malaise that infects Americans is global.” It is a sickness that is consuming the planet while it is using the energy obtained to appear strong. It will be followed by collapse and the chaos that always follows.

 

President Donald Trump capitalized on defining this problem to become president, and the Democratic party and their supporters chose Trump because he was the weakest candidate. All major media outlets especially Fox televised defended Trump during the primary to make him the GOP candidate. They paid out more then all the other candidates from all parties combined including media's preference, Hillary Clinton. I believe that they rightly saw Trump's weak points, but they down played his strong points. The attacks on President Trump effectively uses those identified weak points.

 

This is one of the best truths Chris Hedges said on the video, politicians all lie. They lie for expediency. We are in a time when the lies are becoming permanent lies. Donald Trump pours out an almost continuous stream of expediency lies as does all the leading politicians. The problem is that the media does not question the lies. They for me have turned lies of expedience to permanent lies. And the public has recognized that they hear lies from all sources of information. Trump inflates the performance of the economy and the effectiveness of his 'Make America Great Again' campaign slogan. On absolute measurement terms he lies, but on relative terms to Obama's performance he is succeeding and meeting the promise made. Chris only wants to apply absolute measurements and only to Trump.

 

On the video Chris Hedges is asked to present his solutions: $15 minimum wage, ban on for profit health care (national health care), dismantle nuclear weapons, end trade agreements, and give citizenship to undocumented workers. He presented Shumer, Pelosi, and Sander's 2018 and before platform that even Hillary Clinton ran on and the was part of Obama's transforming America plan.

 

When I look at his action list I go back to the Roman Empire and the Eastern Roman Empire reason for collapsing. History presents many other and near the present day: USSR, Yugoslavia , and in the final gasps Venezuela. They all created class societies with the elite controlling government to created special laws for each class and prevent mobility between classes. They all created if needed a welfare state to control the mob that receive the transfer of wealth from the middle class. They all in the end reduced defenses in order to maintain the levers of control and every one of them were willing to kill their opposition within the nation. In the end the suppressed middle class rise up in revolution or the weaken borders let in invaders, usually those invaders are welcome guest workers earlier in the spiral downward.

 

Chris Hedges has not presented is that the corporate international state that presides over the western nations is actually creating a class society with barriers to mobility, is creating a welfare state, and inviting in workers or moving work to the impoverished workers, little difference. They are doing all the things that he say will solve the problem. Chris Hedges how can the same things destroy a civilization and rebuild it?

 

I never want to leave a subject without presenting a direction that may work. Life on the planet has survived millions of years by adapting and the means of determining what works from what does not is called 'spontaneous order'. This may appear to be chaos but a balance is reach in which the living things on the earth learn how to relate to the other living things, order. It is spontaneous because nothing dictates what the order will look like and what changes will happen over time.

 

The is a template that has worked for humans to develop a language, created the family structure, and community structure. Why would it not work for human civilization? The Constitution of the United State is based on a document the Declaration of Independence that present a view of what spontaneous order in a human civilization should define as it's principles. The Classic liberal thinkers of the time provided the understanding. We need to go back and review their thinking. Be careful to include those that are in line with the Declaration because those that supported class societies the norm of the day also wrote. The corporate state is really not new.

 

To deal with the corporations can be addressed with anti-trust laws,a tool if used properly insures that the free market operates on 'spontaneous order'. The goal of anti trust is to prevent skewing of the spontaneous order that would occur if the number of players were numerous. Thus anti trust defines a minimum number of players and the reach of those players that is how many average players they represent is needed for quasi spontaneous order, the market is skewed less the ~ 10%. This goes for free speech, the restriction that our two party system has place on entry of third parties, etc..

 

The Constitution defines federalism, the next body of government that is jealous to retain power and with many of them together, they check the upper government body. The state constitutions that all but one have bicameral legislatures need to change the representative in their senate body be the representative body for county governments of which there are many in a state, the next lower body of government. All bodies of government shall have enumerated powers that shall only allow them to do thing that can not be done by a lower body. Thus the bodies will be much smaller and more focused.

 

Government at any level can not put up barriers to the mobility of people between classes. The transfer of wealth by taxes to other citizens shall be voted upon by those paying the taxes and not by the recipients at regular intervals, each year. And of course the congress or the executive branch can not transfer authority to a government agencies. The supreme court shall be limited to saying a law is unconstitutional and can not impose actions to be performed by government or individuals. And the decision of the court can be challenged. For example the next lower body of governments can nullify a court decision by a super majority in each state's legislatures. Congress already can pass a law to nullify a court decision.

Comments

George N Romey Added Sep 17, 2018 - 2:45pm
Any system that has no bounds will ultimately kill itself.  The capitalism we have is based upon perpetual growth, which is expected and demanded by the masters of finance.  The masters that now hold the key to business.  Infinite growth would depend upon population growth and/or constant rising wages.  The former is impossible and the latter isn't happening.  This constant need for higher sales and higher profits will one day doom us.  
 
Much of what Chris Hedges says is correct but our political leaders will rather pretend we have a great economy for all and instead play war and spy games.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 17, 2018 - 3:01pm
More predictions of doom! How many have that been since 1929?? 200?! More?
 
"This is one of the best truths Chris Hedges said on the video, politicians all lie. They lie for expediency. We are in a time when the lies are becoming permanent lies. Donald Trump pours out an almost continuous stream of expediency lies as does all the leading politicians. The problem is that the media does not question the lies. "
 
Much of this is/are not actual lies--it is/they are elements of ideology of which we two opposing sets of doctrines that interact violently. Capitalism does not work well in all places but it has always worked in the  US and mostly English speaking countries from about 1500 onward. 
 
 Most elements of dogma are lies with respect to some standard  that cannot be accepted by all. 
 
The media takes sides as in the old nostrum that they can 'influence" the polis. That is only partially true.  Leftist dogma is on the defensive since 4% growth. The lie here was that 2% was the new normal. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 17, 2018 - 3:03pm
George N Romey
 
"Much of what Chris Hedges says is correct but our political leaders will rather pretend we have a great economy for all and instead play war and spy games."
 
 
We have a great economy and it may get much better.  Capitalism wins!
 
Some folk let their dogma do their thinking for them.
George N Romey Added Sep 17, 2018 - 3:48pm
If you had any knowledge and actually did some investigating rather than run your mouth you would know both 1929 and 2008 were years in the making.  The seeds of the Great Depression started with the Industrial Revolution.  The more recent crash (which in actuality was a Depression even with the trillions in gimmicks) had roots back to the early 70s.
 
If you knew anything about capitalism you would know its dependent upon never ending growth in demand.  When the demand starts to come to an end the crash ensues.  We've learned how to develop workarounds that sustain capitalism from credit cards to massive money printing.  But again you can only repeat what you hear from Fox News.
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 17, 2018 - 4:15pm
George for once we agree.  I do have slight variations.  Instead of using capitalism I prefer free market.  Capitalism is just the accumulation of wealth the excess wealth and all human societies do it, even hunters and gatherers.  Free markets do not require growth and have no relationship to growth.   But we do not have a free market which means we have much fewer in this case producers that can skew the market.  With fewer producers everything you say George is true.   Those produces want to continuously grow production. And they fight to prevent replacement products coming to market.  
 
Agriculture raw products is a free market and the weather is the biggest player.  The price of their goods decreases because mechanization and chemicals have increased the productivity and the capacity to ship cheaply their product around the world.  Production can increase without a price increase.  The only people that need starve are the result of political problems.  Since every farming nation can face failed crops I believe that the surplus would be freely provided to prevent the famines of the passed unless political problems interfere.     
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 17, 2018 - 4:21pm
JFK Democrat,  free market is not winning.  The industrial revolution has occurred without constraints to the accumulation of capital and the further collection of that capital into factions.   Government has been paid off to ignore the end of the free market except at the retail level.  They have not acted in our best interest.  They want us to serve them instead of governing at the consent of the us. 
George N Romey Added Sep 17, 2018 - 4:36pm
The industrial and technology revolutions have changed the equation. There is an over abundance in capacity.  In the 19th century a shoemaker could average three new pairs a shoes a day.  Today a factory can spit out thousands in a day.  
 
We've seen the first stage.  Companies merging and going out of business.  Technology has enabled the service sector to explode but even that has a saturation point.  We see that after decades productivity is falling.  Companies force value for shareholders through gimmicks like stock buybacks (with borrowed money).  Payday lenders are sprouting like mushrooms.  Yet we are supposedly in an economic boom?
 
The second stage will be cannibalistic in nature.  It might take a few more decades but its coming.  
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 17, 2018 - 4:58pm
As I said the welfare state has caused the collapse of the Roman Empire, and is close to causing the collapse of western society since the spending on welfare is exceeding the taxes brought it. 
 
Welfare states could solve the problem of ever increasing welfare amounts and increasing recipients but then they would have to let go the votes welfare purchases.   When the collapse is at their door step maybe they will be willing to hope the solution will keep them in power for a little while longer, give them time to come up with the next scheme.    
 
The solution can  be to return it to the churches and other private organizations that ask for donations.  The other approach is to have a vote by the tax payers, not the recipients, to define what amount they are willing to pay.  I am retired so I can not vote for Social security portion of tax.  But if I am paying taxes for income that is used for general welfare I can vote on paying for general welfare.    Pay no taxes the can not vote.  America at the start I believe the state did limit voting to tax paying citizens since the state determined the rules.
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 17, 2018 - 8:19pm
Thomas, originally, in the U.S. you had to won property to vote. That was rather quickly dispensed with. We have a lot of people with no skin in the game voting themselves things. They might indeed vote themselves into poverty and not realize it. Our debt keeps growing. The Social Security piggy bank was supposed to be untouchable, but Congress saw the money and couldn't stop itself. All the money the Baby Boomers paid would have supported them, but it's all spent, and now the next generations will have to pay. Add to that, people are living longer and will collect a lot more than was expected. We were supposed to die around 70 years of age, but that keeps getting longer.
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 17, 2018 - 9:07pm
Social Security, medicare, food stamps, Aid to dependent children, medicaid, and other welfare programs are the present day welfare state but welfare states reach back to the Roman Empire and the methods have not changed.  This will sound familiar with some minor changes in items provide to the recipients.  The end game  results should suggest Venezuela.   
 
A little closer  re-inventor is Bismark  created Pay-As-You-Go  principle  money is paid in to the plan and that money is paid out to recipients. Social security and Medicare programs create people that consider them programs a right due to paying the tax for years.  Yes, a tax is how the Supreme Court approved SS.    The next re-inventor is Ponzi and Madoff is the most resent employer of his fraud scheme.
 
"Roman social welfare support was introduced by Gajus Gracchus (158-122 BC), on a large scale. All citizens of Rome were entitled to buy a monthly ration of grain at a fixed price. The subsidized staple food of Rom became immediately the weapon of choice for the ruler to stay in high favor with the crowd and to maintain control over the political power. . . . Publius Clodius Pulcher abolished the charge in 58 BC, and began distributing the grain for free. The result was a sharp increase in the influx of rural poor into Rome, as well as the freeing of many slaves so that they too would qualify for the dole. . . . Aurelian (270-275 AD) who not only made the right to social welfare hereditary but also boosted welfare benefits considerably by providing baked bread instead of corn supplemented by pork, olive oil and salt. . . . Emperor Nero once declared, "Let us tax and tax again. Let us see to it that no one owns anything!" Later, more unscrupulous emperors like Domitian (81-96 AD) would use trumped-up charges to confiscate the assets of the productive entrepreneurs. Most emperors continued the policies of debasement and increasingly heavy taxes, levied mainly on the productive and wealthy. . . . Once the productive were no longer able to pay Rom's bills, the burden fell onto the working class. Evidently average people suffered severely from the deteriorating economic conditions.To prevent businesses from shutting-down, resulting in mass unemployment, the government was increasingly nationalizing the economy. This caused a total breakdown of the division of labor. The entrepreneur's difficulties were not only caused by high taxes but also by massive government regulations. At this point 301 AD, the Emperor Diocletianus, commonly known as Diocletian, took action in order to subdue the increasing civil unrest. . . . In the end, there was no money left to pay the army, build forts or ships, or protect the frontier. It was an easy task for he barbarian German chieftain Odoacer to pushed aside the last Roman emperor, Romulus Augustulus, and installed himself 476 AD."
  http://www.articlesbase.com/economics-articles/will-us-repeat-the-welfare-death-of-the-roman-empire/
Lindsay Wheeler Added Sep 18, 2018 - 2:59am
Thomas Sutrina, you are full of BS. Class societies is NORMAL. That is how Nature works. It is America that is abnormal. Corporations poured money INTO HILLARY's campaign---NOT Trumps!  You point out Fox News---ONE outlet. Who does NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times, PBS, NPR, Washington Post, belong to?  Who Thomas Sutrina?
 
President Trump is the FIRST president who is keeping his campaign promises!  Why do you think there is a large hate campaign against him?  
 
It is America that is a False construct because it is anti-Nature. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 18, 2018 - 8:22am
Lindsay W., I totally agree with you that 'class societies are normal.'  Humans have had slaves from almost the beginning and on every continent, slavery is at a minimum a two class society. Our history books are full of examples from the stone age to today. 
 
Now this is how 'nature works'.  Please tell me one other plant or animal that divides its own species into classes?  Just ONE.   
 
Natures norm is that 'all members of the species is created equal.' Which is reality in nature those that have birth defects die very shortly afterward.  Equal does not mean identical, we have two sexes for ~99.99% of all living things.
 
Lindsay the media (corporations) poured money into the GOP primary for candidate Trump.  They poured in during the 'primary' elections more then all other candidates of any party combined to Trump.  Your correct about the general election that Hillary got lots of money but the difference was much smaller an more in line with past general elections. 
 
All presidents keep some of their campaign promises.  Actually do something the congress must first create legislation that ends up on the president's desk.  So a president does not have control of the promises he is able to keep.  Generally a president with Congress of the same party will achieve more of his promises because they are more likely those of Congress.   Obama did quite well in achieving his promises while he had a Democratic Congress. 
 
Trump promised to undue the things Obama did with his pen and phone.  Those are fully under Trump's control.   His record for passing legislation is not very good.  
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 18, 2018 - 8:30am
Lindsay bees actually have classes but they are biologically based.  Male and female can be defined as class and are also biologically based.  I am talking about a class that is not biologically based.  
Dino Manalis Added Sep 18, 2018 - 8:52am
 America needs careful and gradual deficit and debt reduction and elimination and selling or leasing federal assets would be a good starting point.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Sep 18, 2018 - 2:24pm
Lindsay
 
"President Trump is the FIRST president who is keeping his campaign promises!  Why do you think there is a large hate campaign against him?  "
 
Very true and the economy is surpassing, by 100%, the 2% New Normal of Obama and his failed system. 
Doug Plumb Added Sep 19, 2018 - 5:42am
Thomas, you and others like you are intelligent at talking about the politic as presented on TV, and no doubt you read a lot, but you are like the deaf dumb and blind kid that played a mean pinball.
  You ignore the fact that our governments serve two masters and no one can serve two masters. As for the lying and manipulation, the poisoning of the food and water, the poisoning of publishing and education, you have to wonder if there is a conspiracy.
  You get up every morning and go to your car, there is shit all over your windshield, your tires are flat and your gas tank has been emptied again somehow, perhaps its not all just coincidence?
  Here is what one of the two masters that government must serve thinks: Yom Kipper
  The US government is owned and operated by the Fed. The Fed is a privately owned Jewish corporation. Its a fact, you have to accept it. You have no choice if you want to see reality.
  The other master is YOU but you are asleep, and we are with Cousin Kevin and Uncle Earnie. Tommy finally gets enlightened after spending time with his abusive cousin Kevin and his sexually abusive Uncle Earnie. Have you seen the pics of the eleven year old tranny yet?
  Many have said it: Pain is the path to wisdom. You cannot have one without the other. Too many people have fit themselves into a comfortable box and won't open the lid to see what is going on outside.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 19, 2018 - 5:44am
We have a two class society, one class expects and believes we have the common law. The other is dismantling the common law, piece by piece and replacing it with a very uncommon law. Both are masters that our government serves. One master gets served with theft, murder and lies - consistently. If every tree is sick, you have to look at the forest.
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 19, 2018 - 9:47am
Doug, you have tagged Jew with some conspiracies, but I have read the Old Testament in the Bible and can not connect these religious principles with the tags you claim.   So Doug please connect the dots the points in the Jewish theology to correspond to your conspiracies for Jews.  << The US government is owned and operated by the Fed. The Fed is a privately owned Jewish corporation. Its a fact, you have to accept it. You have no choice if you want to see reality.>> 
 
Islam theology can be attached to the actions of ISIS for example and the other problems in the middle east.  I have tagged them because the connection is clear.  And I have pointed out that not every Muslim promotes the theology.  
 
Hitler fascism, Stalin socialism, and Islam all hated Judaeo-christian theology.  The Democratic party also promotes discrimination against Judaeo-christian theology. You do agree that the Democrat party is presenting socialism government as the solution.   So you can not tag something on Jews and have socialist agree with the Jews.  They would be working together and your saying they are opposite.
 
The Democrats party want an even steeper graduated income tax.  This is what Carol Marx thinks about tax and banks.   "The progressive income tax increases political power over private wealth and moves the issues of wealth and fruits of production into the arena of government power and political discussion. It brings “class warfare” into public discussion, and promotes class envy, and when done with savvy demagoguery, distracts from the fact of property as a natural and civil right to the idea that it all belongs to the government to use for the “common good”, for the use of the collective [Faxism, Socialism, and Islam believe in a collective and not individuals]. . . . 
 
So it’s a matter of setting up private wealth as something a strong central government allows you to keep if it serves a “public” purpose, and promotes collectivist thinking. Especially the poor, and middle class, are fooled into thinking confiscation of whatever individuals own is “fair game” for political discussion. . . . 
 
Karl Marx knew for a fact when he wrote this in his Communist Manifesto that central banks in capitalist countries would inevitably be run by private banks, or at least bankers with deep ties to private capitalist banks, because who else would understand banking? . . . [Government can and have] drop the pesky habit of giving people gold for their certificates.  So the pressure on central bankers –and politicians, easily lured by easy money– was to “free themselves” from basing currency on value and moving it to fiat money, a simple government declaration that it has value. . . .  All this concentration of wealth at the center, with the biggest and most powerful private bankers wedded to the political class in the person of the Central Bank. . . .  [to keep the economy from collapsing] Free market forces are still at work, though, and in fact central banks count on the “free market forces” when they print money or remove it from circulation to manipulate the money supply."  
 
https://trutherator.wordpress.com/why-did-karl-marx-want-an-unequal-income-tax-and-what-central-bank/
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 19, 2018 - 10:14am
Doug, the people like me  believe in the Constitution and Declaration of Independents.  The existence of 'natural law'  which is often common law but does not have to be.  A linching and witch burning is common law in practice also. 
 
Your the first person to define theology as a class.  Normally class also has a wealth component.  
 
The second group, your class, are progressives, communist, Fabian Socialist or Democratic Socialist.  The name keep changing as they get a negative feeling by the public.  They believe that the upper economic and political class know what is best for the people, the collective, not individuals.  Only the upper class can be individuals.  It is a totalitarian form of government.   
 
The fact is Doug that the people that believe in the Declaration have lost the power struggle so far.  And the government is not totally totalitarian.  So yes the voices of the minority is sometime heard but they seldom win.  President Trump is not a member of either group and as such has done thing that fall into both camps.   The opposition he is getting is because he is willing to do thing that the losers want. 
 
Your confusing them working together, but nothing can be further from the truth.   The winning side has multiple wings and one of those wings is the RINO GOP, the leaders of the party.  They want you to believe that the GOP opposes the Dems, but the proof is in the putting and the putting is the best shown in what the government spends money on.   Not the wall and limiting immigration of illegals.   Funds planned parenthood abortion mills and Obama care, and sancturary cities. etc..   His happens when one house of congress is controlled by the GOP.   
 
The GOP was not giving Ted Cruz a penney until they realized that they could loose control of both houses.  They have already given up on the House of Representative and in fact I believe that they want to loose the house so that they can claim the Dems are preventing them from acting.  But they do not want to loose full control.   
 
Ted Cruz is the real opposition for the GOP RINOs, a Conservative that believes in the Declaration.  The GOP does not fund and in fact is more ruthless in how that attack conservative candidates in the GOP primary.  They do not fun them when the win the primary, they would rather have a democrat fill a seat then a conservative.  This can be proven.  
Kristen Foley Added Sep 20, 2018 - 5:55am
I don’t believe for one second any of those countries collapsed because of some secret elite society that's controlling the levers of government.  A society who's evil plan is  to prevent others from moving between classes and to steal from the Middle Class.  Conspiracy theories like that have no place in any intelligent debate about why countries and empires collapse. 
 
The rise of the welfare state, while maybe not that closely linked to the fall of Yugoslavia, was a problem for the others you mentioned. I don’t believe the reason the welfare state grows is to control the mob, I believe it’s simply because politicians will always choose to kick the can down the road.  They do that because the voters usually get rid of any politician that imposes fiscal restraint.  As for President Trump, he joins a long list of politicians that continue to kick the can down the road.
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 20, 2018 - 8:35am
Kristen, you drank a lot of the cool aid.  So please explain Venezuela.  And then there is Zimbabwe seized white farmer's land and the resulting inability to feed their citizens where prior they exported excess food.  South Africa just stepped down from officially doing the same thing but it is happening with permission by not ending terrorism.  These government have elite single party leading class.  They are not secret, that is your assumption.  
 
As far as class based societies preventing or limiting people from moving between classes.  The cast system in India, Islam official policy is that non-Muslims are second class citizens, Monarchs created class systems, etc..
 
How did you put welfare state and collapse of Yugoslavia together.  Yugoslavia is communist, a socialist state.  I said the end result is the same and control used by the government is the same but since votes are for show welfare is not needed to purchase votes.
George N Romey Added Sep 20, 2018 - 10:16am
As long as any country can spend more than it takes in that country or more precisely the politicians will do so.  Any number of gimmicks have been created to cover up that the US (and Europe, China, etc.) is technically bankrupt.  Could you imagine someone that could continue to spend millions on a personal credit card and never once in the past near 60 years be required to apply one penny towards principal and take cash advances on the card to pay whatever interest was due.  I'd take that offer in a second.
 
This debt will never be repaid in the normal way.  Possibly more gimmicks will be created to make it seem as though the debt is getting repaid.  
 
Trump this supposedly darling of the Tea Party continues to the spending spree but you don't hear a beep from his followers.  Could it be that most were racists to begin hiding behind "government restraint."
 
The dye has been cast.  Someday there will be a day of reckoning. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 20, 2018 - 8:08pm
George, the governments printing money and then spending the printed money. This is a tax on every unit of currency that reduces it's purchasing power. Thus printed money doesn't create debt. Debt to who? So government is writing an IOU to itself, meaningless.
 
Government selling bonds, debt to get back printed currency. They get those pieces of printed currency by trading goods. So if the bonds are useless, the worst case, then the goods were sold at a discount. What if a nation can afford to provide the goods at a discount? Maybe the nation's manufactures and thus the citizens need a customer that will purchase the goods. Do they need customers as much as the purchaser needs someone to accept their IOU. If this is the case then the IOU's will not be called in.
 
The Vimar Republic, Germany after WWI, showed us a way of dealing with debt to other nations defined in paper currency. Print more money to reduce the real value of the IOU's.
 
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 20, 2018 - 8:31pm
George, I didn't think that you would show such lack of knowledge of history. <<Trump this supposedly darling of the Tea Party continues to the spending spree but you don't hear a beep from his followers.  Could it be that most were racists to begin hiding behind "government restraint.">>  
 
President Trump signed the biggest omnibus bill ever, bigger then Obama signed.   Now George, the tea party was formed as a movement due the debt that President George Bush was authorizing.  The choice of name is  because taxes is the reason for the Boston Tea Party.  It grew even faster when Obama continued and even accelerated the debt growth.  However, the IRS and other federal agencies and GOP RINO supporters worked they way into leading positions.  George, the tea party has fallen apart due to these attacks.  
 
To be a movement and get people involved requires that you communicate with them.  So please show me efforts to tell people that the movement is about racism?   It is a common practice to charge your the opposition with what you are, in this case a bigot.  This is the practice of the modern liberals and socialist.   The politicians of the Democratic routinely tell us they are bigots but the media doesn't point this out.   
Kristen Foley Added Sep 21, 2018 - 3:57pm
Just because I don’t agree with your crazy conspiracy theories doesn’t mean I’m drinking kool-aid.  If you stopped to think about what I wrote, you’d realize we’re on the same side of the political aisle.  What you don’t realize is that the actions of liberals is explained by using common sense and not coming up with conspiracy theories.  Liberals like socialism because they think government can and should make everything fair.  Taking land from rich white farmers and giving it to the people is a perfectly logical thing do if fairness is how you think society should be structured. 
John Minehan Added Sep 21, 2018 - 6:17pm
"England had a death spiral starting about the time of WWI and ending with the failure to take back the Suez Canal and the loss of the Pound Sterling as the currency of exchange."
 
However, it clearly wasn't a "death-spiral" since England (and Great Britain as a whole) still exists and has existed since these events. 
 
False premise, no valid conclusion.
John Minehan Added Sep 21, 2018 - 6:23pm
"President Donald Trump capitalized on defining this problem to become president, and the Democratic party and their supporters chose Trump because he was the weakest candidate. All major media outlets especially Fox televised defended Trump during the primary to make him the GOP candidate. They paid out more then all the other candidates from all parties combined including media's preference, Hillary Clinton. I believe that they rightly saw Trump's weak points, but they down played his strong points. The attacks on President Trump effectively uses those identified weak points."
 
It probably had to do with the fact that Trump drew viewers and higher ratings  equals a higher rate charged to advertisers.
 
The fact that Trump did draw viewers should have implied he could win in critical places.  My thought (as my postings demonstrate) was that the Electoral College might produce an 1828 scenario.  
 
John Minehan Added Sep 21, 2018 - 6:30pm
"To deal with the corporations can be addressed with anti-trust laws,a tool if used properly insures that the free market operates on 'spontaneous order'. The goal of anti trust is to prevent skewing of the spontaneous order that would occur if the number of players were numerous. Thus anti trust defines a minimum number of players and the reach of those players that is how many average players they represent is needed for quasi spontaneous order, the market is skewed less the ~ 10%."
 
In this you disagree with Robert Bork, a great scholar  and practitioner of Anti-trust Law, who felt that, for the most part, it was itself a barrier to entry. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 21, 2018 - 9:17pm
Kristy your didn't make sense, your drinking the cool aid.  I answered your comments and you ignored my answers.  You said, "I don’t believe for one second any of those countries collapsed because of some secret elite society that's controlling the levers of government."  You have not answered the question about these examples, "So please explain Venezuela.  And then there is Zimbabwe seized white farmer's land and the resulting inability to feed their citizens."  Who else other then the government cause these nations to fail?    I want to know how this is a THEORY since the failures are FACT.   And how is the government caused the failure not common sense? 
 
Kristy please tell us how what is happening in Venezuela and happened in Zimbabwe is FAIR?  Is starvation FAIR for a large part of the population when the government officials are not starving?  Zimbabwe removing farmers that knew how to produce surplus and gave the land to those that didn't know how to produce a surplus.  Socialist generally use criteria to redistribute wealth that favors them remaining in power.  They gave the land to people that were not farmers.   Kristy is that fair? 
 
Never fair to take by force something away from one person and give it to another.  Once a society starts doing this then ANYTHING CAN BE TAKEN FOR ANY REASON.   That Kristy is the problem presented in all my examples from the Roman Empire to Venezuela.  Your fair is that EVERYONE SUFFERS, except for the government and the very top wealth class. 
 
I want to know what level of suffering you believe is FAIR?.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 22, 2018 - 12:06am
re " So Doug please connect the dots the points in the Jewish theology to correspond to your conspiracies for Jews. << The US government is owned and operated by the Fed. The Fed is a privately owned Jewish corporation. Its a fact, you have to accept it. You have no choice if you want to see reality.>> "
You can look up Greenspan saying that the Fed in no way answers to the government. The Fed controls the economy and people vote based on the economy. The economy tanks and no one will care why. "Its Trumps fault - he is president - get him out of there". The bubble headed bleached blondes on the set will repeat the same message over and over on all the networks.
Greenspan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol3mEe8TH7w
 
Christianity stands for universal law and peace for mankind. Judaism stands for a world government run by Jews where no one but Jews have any rights. They are the supreme supremists and the religion defines the good by what is good for the Jewish people and their aspirations to enslave the planet. I would suggest looking at Henry Makow, Texx Marrs, Michael Hoffman (Judaism Discovered), E Michael Jones, all PhD's. Modern Judaism is not OT, it is Talmudic, the opposite of the OT. I suggest looking at Michael Hoffmans talk on youtube on his book, Judaism Discovered. Take a second look at the holocaust. Also see Solzhenytsyn's "200 Years..".
Its very doubtful that we will ever know what happened in the Spainish Inquisition. I guess St Patrick chased all the rats out of Ireland 8). That's what happens when a special interest group takes over publishing and media - next thing you know 6 million of them are found to have been brutally and systematically murdered, 30 years after the fact 8-)

re "The existence of 'natural law' which is often common law but does not have to be. A linching and witch burning is common law in practice also."

What is commonly done is an expression of common law in what the people demand. It is never a perfect expression and often it is flawed. The common law is what a group of rational beings would adopt as law. The finest expressions and their consquences are best explained by the NT and Kant, in Religion Within The Boundaries Of Mere Reason (get the Oxford edition, they don't sanitize)
There are two parts to common law: (1) The rational laws (2) expressions of that rational law that words cannot fully express. The Common Law is not simply custom. You cannot have science from custom and Jurisprudence is a science.
 
  BTW Both pure capitalism and pure communism were Jewish ideas. Ayn Rand was Jewish. Its a dialectic made to draw us away from common sense. Henry Makow explains this dialectic well, he is an artist of the 800 word essay, and an Eng Lit PhD.
  In the vote you have a choice between Zionism and Bolshevism. Zionists are capitalists and the Bolsheviks are the commies.
 
 
Doug Plumb Added Sep 22, 2018 - 12:16am
@ Kristen re "Just because I don’t agree with your crazy conspiracy theories doesn’t mean I’m drinking kool-aid. "
 
Are you one of those Jewish students on a scholarship earned by defending the idea of an evil mastermind bringing the planet to its knees if we didn't have alphabet agencies to protect the interest of the common man on the web to keep those evil thinkers at bay and overwhelmed with nonsense?
Thomas Sutrina Added Sep 22, 2018 - 12:28pm
Kristy, the point I was making is that government doesn't exist to be 'fair' so to believe any professional politician when they use the 'fair' argument you have to be drinking the cool aid.    In the beginning the actions of government may be 'fair' but since the people by a vote of those loosing wealth  never occurs for the step increases in the government actions.  Later steps will always, (I can not think of a long term exception.) end up unfair and detrimental to the society.   America has always provided for those in need in the colonial days and in the first century of the nation before the states and federal government started to provide welfare.   The assistance was by free choice of individual and society did put pressure on them to be generous.   Kristy that system worked and the remains of it are still part of the American culture.   
 
You lack faith that people are 'fair'.  If you see yourself as 'fair' then why not assume a significant portion of the population is 'fair' and that the culture they create will get others to at least pretend to be 'fair.'  Think about this.
 
Doug, your drinking the cool aid if you really believe this, "Greenspan saying that the Fed in no way answers to the government."  The Federal Reserve is Hamilton's bank idea and is what Jackson closed down.  But the politicians are not bankers, and even Carol Marx knows that, so they need to have bankers run the currency of the government but they are hired to do it.  As I said the the money they print is counterfeit without the approval or permission of the government.  The monopoly they have is also approved.  They are kissing cousins. 
 
Doug, both Judaism and Christianity are salvation theologies since ~550 BC.  Individuals that say they are of a religion do not often follow the teachings.  I will agree that you can find people that believe almost anything and do almost anything in the name of a religion but that doesn't mean they are following the theology of the religion.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 22, 2018 - 8:08pm
Thomas, Greenspan explains that he does not answer to the government. See the video for yourself.
 
Judaism is not out to save you, they are not looking for converts and they don't go around preaching their religious beliefs to non believers. They are non believers, they worship Lucifer, the fallen angel, not the God of the OT. This is out there, you can download copies of the Talmud yourself.
 
Muslims are not poisoning your water (Fluoride), your food (aspertame, sugar, GMO's) and your air (Aluminum oxide, barium oxide "chemtrails"). They are not murdering thousands of innocents (9-11) and playing it over and over again for you to watch. They are not putting drugs and porno into our societies, they are not Marxists. They are not getting our armies to occupy over 140 foreign countries to ensure that their economy runs on Jewish money. They are not having pizza parties with little kids and they are not trying to convert eleven year olds into transvestites. The do not trick wage earners into signing an unconscionable contract to get them to give up both their rights and a large part of their pay.
They are not giving scholarships to thousands of students to post on the web to keep people believing all the bullshit that surrounds them.
 
Doug Plumb Added Sep 23, 2018 - 7:16am
The above video of Greenspan was removed, but this one is is still up.
 
"There is no other agency of government that can over rule what we do" . The Fed is well known to be private, so are its collection agencies, IRS, etc, although they disguise themselves as government. I asked a Canada Revenue Agency top agent how they could use Government Of Canada signage on buildings "we rent the land" was his response.
Thomas, there are too many of you that prefer the illusions. Illusions end.

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