Global Warmists and Thought Forms

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The global warmists are making summer last too long.  Today, on September 29, a week after the autumnal equinox, the temperature at my house is over 90 degrees Fahrenheit.


Now the “scientists” of the world--in this latest religion of abstractions that supposedly controls the cosmos--agree that man is responsible for “climate change,” and we must do something about it.  Even the psychiatric establishment has linked arms with the “scientists” to advocate for a “call to action,” “educational initiatives,” “alliances with other organizations,” “leadership,” “evidence-based advances,” “special responsibility,” and “radical measures” to spread the word that climate change poses a threat to public health, including mental health,” according to the September 7 issue of Psychiatric News.


Well, the climate changes every day and every minute, and each square centimeter of the earth has a different climate.  This could be proven by sticking a thermometer in the ground or hanging it in a tree or dunking it in an ocean.  Where in this scenario is the climate not changing? This simplistic grasp of science is too easy for the “climate scientists” to comprehend.


The fundamental precepts of modern “science” require hypotheses that can be tested, according to the “scientific method.”  This method requires inclusion of a “control group,” which is identical to the test group but without the experimental intervention.  It also requires that the experiment must reduce variables to one, so that the test is high in selectivity and specificity.  That is, the test must measure what you want to measure (selectivity) and only that variable (specificity). 


The notion that the climate is changing and that man is the cause, contains two hypotheses, neither of which is testable under the scientific method.  This makes it “political science,” which employs its own methods.


It is at least as valid for me to claim the global warmists are extending summer temperatures through misguided thought forms.  I’m not the first or only person to claim man can and does influence the weather through thought.  This was the province of the shaman in some tribal cultures, and the premise behind Native American rain dances, and of mystics and seers around the world.


The idea of “thought forms” was popularized in the book Thought Forms: A Record of Clairvoyant Investigation by Annie Besant and CW Leadbetter, of the Theosophical Society, in 1901.  The book asserted that people’s thoughts, experiences, emotions, and music have an  ethereal substance that can be perceived by the psychically attuned.  The book contained paintings of thoughts related to devotion and devotion sacrifice, three types of anger, three types of love (undirected, directed, and grasping) and jealousy, intellect and ambition. The authors claimed that the quality of a person’s thought influences his life experience and can affect other people.  The book had a strong influence on modern art and literature.  Kandinsky, Yeats, TS Eliot, Malevich and Mondrain, especially, were charmed by Theosophy.  Wikipedia notes that Annie Besant and CW Leadbetter played a pivotal role in shaping the globalized culture of East-West mysticism and rationalism, sound and sight.


While the book refers specifically to individual thought forms, I’ve also read and believe there are group thought forms, too, akin to what psychiatrist Carl Jung called “archetypes,” “the collective unconscious,” or universal symbols.  It could be argued that the terms “most people” or “society,” or even “we” refer to a type of mass mind thought form, the generally accepted notion of what humanity as a whole is like, what it believes, or how it thinks.  Perhaps television or the mass media reflect the mass mind thought form and its assumptions. 


It’s never clear how those who refer to “most people” arrive at their characterizations.  I know of no one who has interviewed “most people,” yet these terms slide easily off lips and are just as easily accepted.  Who are these nameless, faceless, creatures so easily packaged into stereotypes such as “liberal,” “conservative,” “black” “white,” and all the labels “we” use to lump individuals together in so much featureless protoplasm? 


The “scientists” only acknowledge what they can perceive with the five senses they admit to, or with sense-extenders, like microscopes or spectroscopy.  They have yet to prove life exists, or that the mind exists, and they have yet to prove the universe has only three dimensions. 


If the mind exists, I would dearly love to see the “climate scientists” use theirs to bring fall weather to my back yard.


Dino Manalis Added Sep 29, 2018 - 6:22pm
 Temperatures fluctuate, it's getting cooler, especially at nighttime, but we expect 80 in N.J. Monday and Tuesday.  We don't have to go bonkers over the weather, just reduce pollution without hurting the economy.
Bill H. Added Sep 29, 2018 - 6:59pm
Check the historical rates of past warming events versus the current one.
Place that rate on top of the evolution of the industrial age.
It becomes pretty obvious.
Katharine Otto Added Sep 29, 2018 - 8:46pm
The DOD is the biggest consumer of fossil fuels, but nobody points to that.  There seems to be a premium on compartmentalization of thought.  The scientific method, with its cause and effect premises, leads to greater compartmentalization and less recognition of patterns of association.
Katharine Otto Added Sep 29, 2018 - 8:54pm
Bill H.,
Correlation is not the same as causation.  The premise of my article is not whether the climate is changing but whether we are dealing with unproven hypotheses, rather than scientific "fact."  
Even if the climate is changing in catastrophic free-fall, it could easily be argued with just as much "scientific evidence" that human thought forms are contributing.  Symbolically speaking, to say that the "planet is heating up" could also refer to all the war and conflict, the roar of machine noise, human angst, and people's addiction to violence and anger.  The generalized thought form of today seems to be one of barely suppressed rage.
It reminds me of religious superstition, in which demons and hobgoblins were blamed for adversity and disease.  Now the "religion of science" blames "climate change."
Rusty Smith Added Sep 29, 2018 - 9:47pm
Apparently man has been very busy for more than the last billion years, because we know the earth's climate has changed drastically hundreds of times suring that timespan, even though modern man has only been around for 200 thousand years.
I would never presume man can't influence our climate, but if I have a choice I would definitely prefer man finds a way to extend the current warm period between ice ages, than a way to keep the earth cooler which may bring the next ice age our way sooner rather than later.
During the last ice age Sheets of ice covered all of Antarctica, large parts of Europe, North America, and South America, and small areas in Asia. In North America they stretched over Greenland and Canada and parts of the Northern United States.  The average ice age lasts 100 thousand years, the average warm period like the one we're in now averages 10 thousand years.
Mankind is much much better off in the worst global warming scenario than they will be during the next ice age.
Doug Plumb Added Sep 29, 2018 - 10:23pm
Rumour says lots about climate scientists, but they are not actually climate scientists for the most part, and climate scientists get their words censored. Real climate scientists say its a joke.
re"Perhaps television or the mass media reflect the mass mind thought form and its assumptions. "
Oh God, I hope not.
Koshersalaami Added Sep 29, 2018 - 11:11pm
Of course, we know a lot about what combinations of gases retain heat, and that is testable without an entire atmosphere. We have an idea what new gases are entering the atmosphere at what rate and also what man made sources are providing them. We have some computer modeling of the atmosphere and can calculate what certain changes should result in. If this were strictly correlation you'd be right - it would be like the vaccine flap- but it isn’t. 
By the way, do you know who first observed man-made climate change and reported on it? Who would study it and why? It happened in the seventies, courtesy of an organization very concerned with the science of reducing omissions.EPA? UN? 
Scientists at Exxon. 
Ward Tipton Added Sep 29, 2018 - 11:42pm
Happened in 1922 also ... dire predictions ... none of which came to pass. 
Apparently Marvin the Martian has been extremely busy up there on Mars all by his little lonesome self with his Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator as the "Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change" on Mars has mirrored that on earth. 
The climate has been changing for as long as we have had a climate. We better be prepared to deal with it if we expect to survive as a species but rest assured, whether we remain or die off, the planet will recover and be fine ... isn't that what a great many Statists want anyhow? 
Flying Junior Added Sep 30, 2018 - 2:03am
I’m not the first or only person to claim man can and does influence the weather through thought.  This was the province of the shaman in some tribal cultures, and the premise behind Native American rain dances, and of mystics and seers around the world.
I suppose this thought process very probably could apply to prayer as well.  I always thought that in praying, a person does not so much receive supernatural help as much as they change their own mind in becoming better prepared to deal with the issues that face us in life.
I also wonder what got lost in the translation of Carl Jung's philosophical construct.  I am not happy with the word unconscious being used as a noun.  I prefer the unconscious mind.  The term collective consciousness actually predates said term.  What is the difference between the two ideas?  We are not telepathic beings.  It would seem to me that thoughts and mores shared by a people are very likely similar in the conscious and unconscious minds.
There will never be another Haydn or Mozart.  They were a product of their times.  There will never be another Paul Butterfield Blues Band.
So, no.  We can't change the weather by wishing for a sunny day.
And I'm quite certain that we can't set up a, "control Earth," to test just one isolated difference in energy approach.
Yet I have enormous respect and faith in climate science coming out of the major Universities.  I have nothing but scorn for those who would fly in the face of these institutions.
BTW.  We are at a near-record water temperature for September 29th at Scripps Pier.  The record for this date is 71 degrees.  But that probably occurred in a year with big Santa Ana hot desert winds.  Our late summer weather was actually very mild.  Tonight at 11:00 p.m. in San Diego, the evening has cooled to 65 degrees, nights are foggy and dewy and rain is predicted soon.  With the length of day just under twelve hours, the ocean really should be much closer to 67 degrees or even lower at this time of year.
Sure, anecdotal.  Just like last year's Santa Anas which brought 106 to 108 degree temperatures in Ventura County and even temps as high as 104 degrees in my own micro-climate within the Coastal Palisades in both September and October.  Sometimes the daytime high was exactly the same near the coast as it was twenty miles inland.  Difficult to believe.  In May of 2015 I recorded 100 degree temperatures in my own back yard.  I had never before seen anything like it.
What kills me is the absolute faith of the denial crowd.  Historic wildfires in California.  Category Five hurricanes in the Atlantic.  Nothing will convince them.  Everybody knows that hurricanes are caused by the interaction of extreme heat and cold.  But they can't see a connection to global warming.
Thank you for thought-provoking article.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 2:32am
It seems that Trump's administration is assuming that the world will warm by 4 degrees centigrade ( 7 degrees F) by 2100 after an analysis of all of the evidence.   Such a change will cause massive problems for humanity.  Manhattan and large parts of Florida, as well as "shit hole" parts of the world, will, unless massive engineering work is undertaken, be underwater.   There will be massive reduction in crop yields worldwide and resulting food shortage and famine
Strangely this revelation was made, not in a document calling for immediate action to curtail climate change, but in a document calling for just the opposite.  This document :
It seems that the argument is that for the Obama regulations to be gone through with would make a difference to this warming figure but that it would be a small drop in a very bug hot bucket.   So America might as well not bother and carry on with business as usual.
In one mundane document like this, America reveals its true nature.  Everything for profit today and bugger the future of mankind.   And as for leadership of the free world... it has clearly given that up.
It seems that we need a new leader to show the way through this clear and present danger to mankind.   Coz Trump sure as hell ain't the man for it.   Where's the profit for him in doing that?   No court the votes from the miners and the funds from Big Oil instead.
In our hour of need, American leadership has failed big time.  Welcome to the second division of nations USA...
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 30, 2018 - 2:38am
"Climate science" is not science. It IS a religion, masquerading as science. The only climate it relates to is of a political nature, not atmospheric
Good article Katharine ( as usual :)
Mr. Vengeance Added Sep 30, 2018 - 2:41am
@ Robin - In our hour of need, American leadership has failed big time.  Welcome to the second division of nations USA...
Gawd you are such a Limey puke! Typical Limey hypocrisy. Go suck QE II's tits, ass, and pussy after munching on some cucumber sandwiches, you fucking cunt.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 2:54am
Ah Michael B... a good example of refined behaviour.  Clearly a man to go to for a reasoned argument.  Clearly we can count on you to help lead us out of this mess then....
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 2:57am
O and Michael, I don't claim the moral high ground here.   Our politicians are equally as self interested and pathetic as yours.   Yours simply have more to play with and could actually make a difference through leadership if they had the balls to do so.   But it seems that they don't.  Just orange hair.
Mr. Vengeance Added Sep 30, 2018 - 2:59am
@ Robin, the Pink-Breasted Limey Cuntbird - Don't blame your utter lack of leadership on US; fly, Robin, fly, hopefully within range of Dick Cheney's shotgun, lol. I love what one of Princess Diana's many, many paramours had to say about her, something to the effect of, "She campaigned against land mines, but she was like a land mine herself, in the sense that she was relatively easy to lay but very difficult and expensive to get rid of." HAHAhahahahahahahah!!!!!!!! I know, that was a cheap shot, but when insulting lime-SUCKERS, I usually don't go for style points.
Mr. Vengeance Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:11am
Orange hair? Lack of balls? Gawd you are such a racist and sexist, judging something by its COLOR and its SEX ORGANS!!! Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the ultimate definition of racism and sexism? I only wish I could be John Belushi, smashing a fucking guitar over your stupid Limey fucking head, lol. Go somewhere and play where the pigeons shit on you the most, and people put cigarettes out on your fucking lips, or, even better, on your mother's pussy, lol.
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:26am
Michael, were it not for the gracious stewardship of our English cousins over this Germanic tongue we share you would not enjoy the plethora of vulgarity from which to serve as your pallet..
you could at least refrain from insulting their mothers! Save that for someone who really deserves it. Like the French. Or the Swiss ;)
Mr. Vengeance Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:30am
@ KO - "TooT" - that still gets a chuckle out of me, giggle giggle. Anyway, I don't have any hard data at the moment, but my world is apparently getting hotter too. I've lived where I am for 13 years now, and for the first five or six, I never even felt the need for a fan. However, since then, I bought a bigger fan, then two, and am now considering a swamp cooler. I wish I was a fish, lol.
Mr. Vengeance Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:33am
@ TBH - You obviously are a Limey sympathizer and fellow traveler, lol.
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:42am
I know where my blood comes from :) Speaking of.....mine is rather thin. I'm like a basil plant: I wither at about 50F. Heat doesnt bother me the least
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:42am
hence the outfit :)
Jeff Jackson Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:43am
Point One: If the earth was getting colder, do you think humans could reverse that and make it warmer? Point Two: If, by some chance, the "global warming" "scientists" are wrong, I want all of their academic credentials removed, any teaching positions they have replaced, removed from any university positions, and their pensions revoked. I don't care if they have to dig ditches for the rest of their lives; if they are wrong, they need to pay and pay dearly for the profound fraud that they have foisted in the "global public."
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:50am
Jeff - A capitol idea! Probably a little too pedestrian for Michael's tastes, but sound nonetheless :)
Neil Lock Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:54am
Katharine: the global warmists are extending summer temperatures through misguided thought forms. 
Oh, they don't need to be that clever. All they need do is tweak a parameter or two in their models, so they predict hotter. Then a little bit later they come back and "adjust" the temperatures that were measured in the past downwards, so then they can claim (a) their models reflect reality and (b) temperatures now are the hottest EVAH!
But yesterday was a really nice day here, too. (22C high, it would normally be about 15C at the end of September).
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:58am
You've all had a rather warm summer in the Isles this year, haven't you Neil?
Neil Lock Added Sep 30, 2018 - 4:26am
Jeff Jackson: Your Point Two is spot on. Well actually, maybe you are being a little bit too kind to them.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Sep 30, 2018 - 5:00am
Anecdotally its been a cooler past few months here at the beach at 13 degrees N lat. More overcast and very strong onshore winds for weeks on end. 
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 5:06am
O Michael B, we children are surely in the presence of an intellectual giant.   Please explain to us, O Guru, what you make of the document that I reference from Trump's administration.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 6:17am
So Katharine - what happened to my comment?
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 6:17am
Burger:  This summer in the Isles has indeed been rather warm.   My lawn still looks pretty dead.  Farmers have had to use up winter reserves of feed to keep livestock going throw lack of grass growth.   Significant price increases have been promised for all types of food as a direct result.
We did not really enjoy parts of the summer as it was too hot to go outside during the day.    I had to water my tomato plants twice a day during the warmest part of it to keep them alive.  I forget how many weeks went by without any rain.   At times it felt like it might never do so again.   Strange to think how we missed the rain.  Usually we never stop moaning about it.
However further south in Europe, in parts of Spain, the temperature reached over 45 degrees C.   I cannot imagine what it must have been like if you had taken a family of young children to the Costas for a holiday during that... I guess you would have had to stay indoors and watch TV.
I experienced 45 degrees C in Luxor earlier this year.    Half of the group, which went on the tour, never made it all the way round Carnac but had to be rescued and brought back to air conditioning.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 6:21am
About sums it up for me Robin. 
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 6:30am
Katharine:  Let me address some of your original points
Science, with respect to the science of the natural world, does not use "control groups" to test hypotheses.   Such control groups, free from influence of the phenomena under test, are not possible because everything, control groups included, are part of the "nature" under study.
Instead models are constructed to explain observed phenomena.   If the model does a reasonable job of explaining that phenomena, then it is retained and effectively used in the design of technology (e.g. the original Newtonian theory of Physics is used, for example, to drive forward the technology of flight).
When phenomena are observed which are not explained by the model, another model is sought.   This does not mean that the old model is no longer useful... we still, for example, assume that Newtonian Physics is correct for the purposes of most technology.
Scientists, in common with most other humans, do seem to have one built in prejudice.   We expect the "ultimate truth" to be simple.  So scientists do tend to also search for simpler explanations of complex phenomena.
Science is indeed vulnerable to being hijacked by those who see it to be useful to fuel their political ambitions... see the consequences of the "Origin of Species" which we still struggle with today.
As to the infinite variety of people?   I agree with you.   We are all different.   I also think we are far more connected than we realise.   There is some question as to where the true "self" begins and ends.   I certainly don't think that there is a hard barrier between what defines us and what defines "everyone else".
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 6:38am
O and Michael B, I think that you need to brush up on your insulting technique.   It is far too crude and mindless to be effective.   I recommend that you study some of the masters... people who came up with insults like this one:
“He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."  
Now that is an effective insult...
Ward Tipton Added Sep 30, 2018 - 7:06am
I am still waiting for someone to help me out blaming Marvin the Martian and his Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator ... that can be the only possible explanation for heating and cooling periods on Mars that match those of earth almost exactly!
Ian Thorpe Added Sep 30, 2018 - 7:07am
Katherine, good article, I've read a bit about the theosophists but never looked deeply into their beliefs. Annie Besant was of course another Fabian socialist who had plenty of time to champion the working class because she and her hubby were, like all the best socialists, so rich they never had to do a days real work in their lives.
Neil, I'm glad to see someone made the point that all the "science" cited by the Warmageddonists relies on adjusted data rather than empirical evidence. I once had a Warmageddonist tell me who claimed he is a "scientist" tell me that empirical evidence is irrelevant because it is not "scientific." While not up to the standard of crass stupidity shown by some people in this thread, I have to admit it's pretty good.
Burghal, I was disappointed you did not suggest that The Spanish Inquisition would have known how to deal with the Warmageddonists. The soft cushions perhaps. Or offer Mike B a nice cup of tea, he'd hate that.
Here in Mallorca, where I've been all month, it is unseasonally hot and (as usual) sunny with rain falling overnight when most people are sleeping, which is exactly what I and the rest of the party wished for. Maybe Katherine was onto something about human thoughts affecting the weather. All the climate scientists in the world cannot prove otherwise.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 30, 2018 - 7:31am
Is there really such a thing as a nice cup of tea? 
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 7:31am
Katharine - I'm not sure why you deleted my comment. Here it is again.
Science is based on accurate observation followed by hypothesis and testing.
As is obvious we cannot have a control group for the planet.
We have observed the heating of the planet very accurately. It is heating up. We use modelling. We receive information from all over the planet that show what is going on and the trends involved. It shows the planet is warming.
To claim that all these thousands of scientists are bogus or politically motivated is absurd.
We have looked for reasons for this warming.
In previous tropical ages there were natural phenomena. In ice ages there were natural phenomena.
These changes were brought about by things outside our control – solar output variations or volcanic activity.
We have not observed any such activity.
What we have observed is that the greenhouse gas CO2 is building up in high levels due to human activity through burning fossil fuels. This correlates.
The greenhouse effect of CO2 has been verified using scientific method, with controls.
The global warming is having a marked effect on weather patterns and rises in sea level. If the temperatures rise much more those changes will increase dramatically.
Intelligence says that if you have a problem you look for a way of fixing it. Global warming is a hell of a problem.
We could put mirrors in space to reflect heat.
We could put my water into the air to form cloud to reflect heat.
We could reduce CO2 levels.
You know what – I think CO2 reduction is the easiest and best way to solve the problem.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 8:22am
Opher: You perhaps mention the ways of removing CO2 from the atmosphere that have been postulated.
You basic argument is correct, we either need to find ways of reducing the amount of solar radiation reaching the earth's surface or of reducing the ability of the atmosphere to retain heat.   Perhaps a list of the main methods of achieving these things would be useful.
The document I reference from Trump's administration is effectively accepting that there is a problem but that it is too big a problem to even think of addressing it... so stick our heads in the sand... believe whatever we want to believe … and carry on with burning fossil fuels as normal commensurate with maximising profit in the shorter term.
I don't think that the human species should be so defeatist.   It may be that we need a combination of measures... carbon emission reduction, atmospheric carbon reclaim and atmospheric mirrors/ shielding in order to bring this threat fully under control.
But to get there we need great global leadership because no one country acting alone can do it.   Trump just ain't the man for the job.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 8:47am
Robin - no you are right. Trump is very short-term in everything he does. It's the same with the economy - all short-term gain long-term loss. Revitalising dead industry just backs you into a cul-de-sac. 
Trump is the biggest ostrich in politics.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 8:51am
Don't you think that he actually knows exactly what he is doing?   He is not actually that stupid.  He has some brains.   I think it is just that he is unbelievably callous.   As long as he gets what he wants, he just does not care what happens after he is gone.   He does not seem to care about the fate of his fellow countrymen or humans generally... maybe not even own his grandchildren.  That's how I read the guy.
Intelligent.. yes.   Emotionally … a complete pygmy.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 8:58am
You have to grant him intelligence I think.   It has taken skill to persuade American turkeys to vote for Christmas in the way that they have.
Just as I think Boris Johnson is an intelligent though callous man.   He does not give a stuff about the mess he has landed us all in just as long as he gains power from it.
Our own English turkeys voted for Christmas in a similar way...
The biggest irony is that this week a free trade "think tank" has been suggesting that after Brexit we should roll over and accept American safety standards on drugs and food ( and allow American private companies to compete with the NHS for providing health services).   It is ironic because it comes at a time when a public inquiry has just started into the NHS use of American blood products a few decades ago without sufficient controls.   An event which resulted in the deaths of some 3,000 plus haemophiliacs in the UK from HIV and other diseases....about equivalent in death toll terms to America's much discussed "9/11".
These are intelligent men alright.  That is what makes them dangerous.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 30, 2018 - 9:07am
The last time I checked the figures, there were roughly one hundred and twenty to twenty-five thousand people dying every year from "properly prescribed and ingested" FDA approved medications. 

No worries though, they are from the government, and they are here to help!
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 9:13am
So Ward, you would agree that the UK would be foolish to remove restrictions on the import of American medical products?
Doug Plumb Added Sep 30, 2018 - 9:27am
  The sun is the cause of increase temperature on the earth. Ward makes the observation that seems to just fly over most peoples heads, Mars is showing the same temperature effects as earth. No one is burning carbon fuels on Mars.
  I do not agree that collective thought processes can alter reality, only what people think of reality. This can change the future, but I call this propaganda.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 30, 2018 - 9:51am
I am just saying that government approval does not equal any kind of assurance of safety or benefit. Look at the psychotropic drugs used to control kids who have the audacity to study too many things at once. Have you looked at the side effects? 
Ward Tipton Added Sep 30, 2018 - 9:55am
"I do not agree that collective thought processes can alter reality, only what people think of reality. This can change the future, but I call this propaganda."
I believe the point Katharine was making, though I may be wrong, is that her theory is every bit as "sound" as any of the "science" backing this farce up. 
That being said, the Climate has changed for as long as it has existed. What if we do successfully defeat this warming? Do we return Chicago to its rightful place under kilometers of ice? What is ideal for the planet or are these alarmists just selfishly looking after human comforts and interests without considering what would be better for the planet itself? Maybe we should just kill off humanity and leave the cockroaches and bacteria to do their deeds and become the next superpower! 
Ward Tipton Added Sep 30, 2018 - 9:56am
PS - Subconscious is the proper term for what was mentioned earlier, though "unconscious" may explain many of the people here ... on this planet I mean. 
Koshersalaami Added Sep 30, 2018 - 10:16am
Global warming does not mean that the Earth will be warmer everywhere all the time. The main thing it means is changing weather patterns because heat can change how much and where wind blows. Given that wind carries clouds, that can change how much and where rain falls. It’s kind of hard to move crop land to wherever the weather now suits crops best, assuming we can track it. 
Where it does get warmer, it can cause problems other than just rising sea levels and tourist discomfort. This is particularly true on mountains. Tall mountains maintain snow caps. In the summer, they melt slowly and feed rivers. If the weather gets substantially warmer up there, too much snow melts at once, leading first to floods, then to drought if it all melts too soon. That has ramifications for what can grow in valleys. 
There’s a second problem on mountains: shrinking habitat. As you go up, you hit different climate zones and different plant and animal species thrive in each. As temperature warms, those zones get higher. Mountains get skinnier as you go up, so habitats shrink. Screwing with habitats can have much more major effects than one might think. Releasing a few dozen wolves into a national park, I think it was Yellowstone, changed so much that a river actually changed course. The deer population had been big and, more importantly, had been overgrazing near the river, resulting in a lot of soil runoff into the river. When wolves were reintroduced, being near the river was a more vulnerable place to be so deer no longer grazed heavily there. That allowed plants to grow that not only stabilized the soil but reintroduced fauna that thrived where those plants were, either because of the plants themselves, such as beavers, or because smaller prey species became more plentiful, leading to the rebounding of populations of animals that fed on them, such as eagles and hawks. The stabilizing of the soil allowed the river to flow faster because the silt was slowing it down. That changed its course. 
Climate change has a lot of consequences that most people aren’t aware of. 
As to whether it’s science, the press has given people the impression that there are a lot of climatologists and meteorologists on both sides. There aren’t. Spokespeople, yes; climate scientists, no. Damned near all of them are on one side, because the data as we’re currently able to interpret them are concentrated on one side, that side being that man-made changes to the atmosphere is warming the atmosphere at a rate than can cause current and future generations of people problems. 
And again, where the phenomenon was first scientifically identified was not at some anticorporate foundation or university somewhere, it was at Exxon. 
John Minehan Added Sep 30, 2018 - 10:56am
Two thoughts:
---I don't care who or what caused it, how do we adopt to what seems to be a warming climate?
---If it is carbon, the bigger issue may be acidification of the seas.  What can be done about that?
John Minehan Added Sep 30, 2018 - 11:04am
"The sun is the cause of increase temperature on the earth. Ward makes the observation that seems to just fly over most peoples heads, Mars is showing the same temperature effects as earth. No one is burning carbon fuels on Mars.
  I do not agree that collective thought processes can alter reality, only what people think of reality. This can change the future, but I call this propaganda."
But does carbon in the atmosphere worsen the problem?
Or more basically, does a warming climate (from whatever cause) create greater problem on a planet that supports complex (even intelligent) life forms  more than an uninhabited planet? 
The Burghal Hidage Added Sep 30, 2018 - 11:04am
 What is ideal for the planet or are these alarmists just selfishly looking after human comforts and interests without considering what would be better for the planet itself? Maybe we should just kill off humanity and leave the cockroaches and bacteria to do their deeds and become the next superpower! 
The folly of it all! As if, should nature decide that the above be our fate, any futile gesture should change her plan. I have a prescription: plain, brown, paper sack. form funnel at top, press pursed lips to opening of funnel, breath in, breath out.....
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 11:27am
Once again Robin I think you are right. Trump is not stupid. He has successfully played the system for his own personal gain. That takes brains. And yes - he has got a severe empathy problem. He really doesn't care about the outcomes and the effects on people or the planet.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 11:33am
I think everybody misses the point here. We are interglacial and it suits us very nicely.
It would not be good to have out cities and agricultural land a hundred foot under water as it has been in the past.
Neither would it be good to have all temperate regions under glacial ice as has also happened.
We like it just in the middle.
We are also in a unique situation where we can do something about it should it start to change to hotter or colder.
So, if we have any intelligence, and the temperature starts rising it seems wise to do something about it.
As carbon dioxide is a proven greenhouse gas that would seem the easiest and cheapest way of addressing the problem.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 11:37am
John - yes, if we are intelligent, we address it.
The acidification of the seas is mainly caused by carbonic acid from CO2 dissolving in the water. Reduce the CO2 and you reduce the acid. It would be a good idea to reduce the SO2 and NO2 as well.
Neil Lock Added Sep 30, 2018 - 11:45am
Opher: I hate to have to do things this way, but I'm afraid I must address you point by point. It’s going to be a bit technical, and horribly long. But here goes. Katharine, having raised the subject in the first place, will have to act as referee :-)
(PART 1 OF 2)
We have observed the heating of the planet very accurately. Not so. Temperature measurements in most parts of the world have historically been very unreliable, and in many places they still are. Even in the USA, there are still many weather stations whose temperature results are contaminated by local conditions like parking lots. There are also large areas, even on land, where there are no weather stations. And extrapolating a temperature measured at one place to somewhere else, several hundred kilometres away, is a dangerous game. Furthermore, the temperature measurements are only to the nearest degree or at best half degree, so averaging them to give a global temperature to hundredths or thousands of a degree is also likely to be fraught with error.
We use modelling. Model(l)ing is not observation. Models have to be validated by comparing them with observation. Models can be checked to an extent by “hindcasting,” that is comparing them with past observations. The model(l)ers have then tweaked their model parameters to make them match past records reasonably well. What then needs to happen is for the models to be run to make predictions for the future, then those predictions checked against the (later) measurements. When this is done, the models almost always show higher temperatures than have been actually measured.
To claim that all these thousands of scientists are bogus or politically motivated is absurd. Not at all. Almost all of them are, directly or indirectly, funded by political governments. And he who pays the piper calls the tune – does he not?
Think of Trofim Lysenko, for decades the dean of agricultural science in the Soviet Union. Scientists who disagreed with him were sacked or even murdered. Should we not, then, be skeptical if we find out that scientists who disagree with the “humans are causing global warming, and the effects will be catastrophic” narrative have had papers rejected for no good reason? Or that there have been moves to remove journal editors who published skeptical papers? See
And some skeptics have been personally persecuted. Look what happened to Peter Ridd – and this is from the Grauniad, no less: Don’t you see the connections, Opher?
Neil Lock Added Sep 30, 2018 - 11:46am
(PART 2 OF 2)
These changes were brought about by things outside our control – solar output variations or volcanic activity. We have not observed any such activity. I had to watch the pea under the thimble here. The Mediaeval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age were caused by things other than human activity – no? And the temperature swings – at least in the Central England Temperature record – were bigger than today’s (even if we believe the recently “adjusted” measurements). So, is the past temperature record so well correlated with the two things you mention, that they can explain all those variations? I haven’t seen anything even purporting to show that.
The global warming is having a marked effect on weather patterns . Yup. Like decreasing the incidence of hurricanes.
As to sea level, I’ll repeat what I said to Robin in another thread: “I don't actually think anyone really knows how much sea level rise a given temperature increase would cause. The numbers out there, like everything else on this subject, are politicized and so probably grossly exaggerated. I've had a skim of the summary of the report you linked to, and the figure of 76 centimetres rise in the next 82 years seems way high to me. The statement that sea level rise suddenly (roughly) doubled between 1990 and 1993 also triggers my bullshit meter. Why over such a short period? If CO2 was causing it, why did the long term increase in CO2 since 1750 or so not cause an acceleration in sea level rise well before 1990? Has someone fiddled with the readings, or did someone change the way the estimates are done? That's certainly what greens have done with temperature measurements, so why not with this too?”
We could put my water into the air to form cloud to reflect heat. Aren’t you aware, Opher, that water vapour is the biggest greenhouse gas of them all? And that the “experts” don’t even know, without doubt, whether clouds cause nett warming or cooling?
I think CO2 reduction is the easiest and best way to solve the problem. Opher, I think cutting out all the political crap, and looking objectively at the facts, is the only way even to start solving this putative “problem.” And I’ll expand on what Jeff Jackson said earlier: If anyone on either side of the “global warming” divide is shown to have knowingly lied, or to have peddled falsehoods with intent to make people change their lifestyles, they deserve severe punishment.
Neil Lock Added Sep 30, 2018 - 11:56am
Oh dear, I'm going to have to violate Autumn's guidelines by posting three comments in a row.
Opher: Reduce the CO2 and you reduce the acid. Opher, you say you are a biologist, but you obviously didn't study marine biology! Don't you know the oceans are alkaline? pH = 8.1, if my memory serves me right. More CO2 in the oceans will move them towards the pH of pure, distilled water, 7.0. Reducing CO2 would increase the alkalinity!
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 12:09pm
So Ward you think we should just let all American stuff in without any testing or assurance that they are safe?
Katharine Otto Added Sep 30, 2018 - 12:15pm
I'm overwhelmed by all the responses, and in such a short time, too.  Lots of ideas and information that broaden and deepen the original ideas, or, in disagreeing, present reasonable alternatives.  Thank you all for that.  It's hard to answer all individually, but would like to highlight certain comments that stand out.
First, Opher, I have never deleted any comments from my threads, although I do cringe when people make personal attacks, for instance, or take the thread too far off track.  I'm sorry your comment disappeared, and am glad you re-posted it.
Of course many people don't believe thought can influence the weather, and I can't prove otherwise.  I do think it's an interesting hypothesis, because it expands possibilities.   To think of climate change as inevitable and deadly leads to a sense of powerlessness, and for what?  According to my belief, it's not smart to predict futures you don't want.  The idea of thought forms exists as a working theory for me, because it helps explain my idea that we we (individually and collectively) project our current thoughts into the future, then make decisions that bring those predictions to pass.  
The climate may be changing.  It has certainly changed in my back yard over my lifetime, as the article mentions in the first sentence.  But for a few intervening years, I've lived in the same place for 66 years and know it as intimately as anyone could.  We had the first tornado ever in 2008, and the first flood ever last year.  It used to rain every afternoon in the summers, but the last few have been very humid but without much rain.
I'm just not sure CO2 and methane are the major precipitants.  It seems too simplistic.  I tend to think deforestation, pollution, over-development of cities, highways, pavement, and changing geological patterns, such as dams, play possibly a more significant role.  Cities are known for their "thermals" which are funnels of hot air that  rise and change weather patterns all around.  Add to that the massive coverage of land by concrete and asphalt that prevent rain from percolating into the ground and the earth's ability to "breathe" in these areas.  So instead of percolating, rain is diverted into channels, increasing erosion and flooding, and on and on.
Steel Breeze Added Sep 30, 2018 - 12:17pm
i'm saving all my worrying for when the climate doesn't change...
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 12:35pm
Neil - I am talking relative acidity here. It is basic and that is what marine organisms - particularly those with calcareous exoskeletons require - pH 8.2 is ideal. Slight changes in pH towards a more acid profile have a big effect on marine life. When we talk of acidification we scientists are referring to a lowering of pH not necessarily an acid solution.
Katharine Otto Added Sep 30, 2018 - 12:36pm
If we can affect the weather, maybe we should start with today and go from there.  To try to predict or control too far in advance seems like a misuse of the ability.  One of the beauties of weather, I believe, is its mobility--always changing, with or without man's help.
I believe we create our own heaven and hell in the present, and our perceptions of reality are just as powerful as reality itself, whatever that is.  I've contended before that there is no "objective reality," because there is no point of reference for objectivity.  The religiously inclined may claim it's "God," but that raises the question of whose god, and who is in a position to report "God'" objectivity?
Thank you for your two informative comments.  I tend to be suspicious of computer models, because they are only as good as the input data.  What you say about the climate on a mountain, for instance, supports what I also believe, that small changes can have wide ranging effects.  While man's interventions can be profound, the comprehensive picture is not so easy to grasp.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 12:41pm
Neil - so you are claiming that all the tens of thousands of temperature recordings over globe are all inaccurate, that the aggregating of these temperatures is an inaccurate way of assessing global temperature and that all scientists carrying out this work are fiddling the results and are being paid to do so.
Wow!! I find that rather cynical and frankly boggling. I think Trump would be proud of you.
Neil Lock Added Sep 30, 2018 - 12:49pm
Opher, you speak of acidification. That comes from the verb acidify, which according to Webster's means:

acid·i·fy -"fī vt, -fied -fy·ing (1797)
1 : to make acid

2 : to convert into an acid

— acid·i·fi·ca·tion -"si-də-fə-'kā-shən n
To use this word in the sense of "making less acid" is in my view misleading. "De-alkalization" or even "mollification" would have been better. But there's no scare in those words, is there? So, are not you and your "scientist" friends misleading the public on this issue?
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 12:53pm
Neil - yes, prior to the industrial revolution we did not possess the numbers or technology to have an impact on the environment. I think scientists now label the time where our activity has having enough of an impact to change climate as being somewhere in the 20th century. We are now living in the Anthropocene.
It is very hard to get a good picture on global climate as there were no accurate measurements and most changes were mainly localised. But prior to the industrial revolution we can safely say that climate change was the result of natural phenomena such as methane output, volcanic activity and solar output.
Yes I'm sure all those factors play a part - deforestation, urbanisation, cow farts and other pollutants all play their part. We know that CFCs and methane, for instance, are stronger greenhouse gases than CO2.
What I am saying is that it needs addressing one way or another. 
And yes I'd lock up any lying bastard who is fiddling results. Because they provide the obfuscation that enables deniers to come out with their rubbish. Same goes for historians who lie about the holocaust not happening and people running websites who deliberately exaggerate and misrepresent facts.
Katharine Otto Added Sep 30, 2018 - 12:54pm
I didn't know about Marvin, or that Martian climate has changed in sync with the Earth.  I have heard that sun spots play a role.  
Ward and Robin,
Don't get me started on the FDA and American food and drug standards.  That's an entirely different subject, and one on which I have very strong opinions, only partially covered in previous articles.  Suffice to say I was proud of the UK for outlawing GMO food, for awhile, but Monsanto and others sleazed their way in through "experimental" GMO farms, backed by the UK government.  I've lost track now, but the ecologist, a British publication, kept me up to date for awhile.  
I also think prayer has a similar effect, but it could be said that every thought is a kind of prayer, even though it's not specifically directed.  You may not be a telepathic being, but I am, and I believe many people are more telepathic than they realize.  This, too, is unprovable, but it is consistent with the idea of thought forms, which are assumptions people make about reality and transmit by thought, words and behavior.  
I don't have your faith in university scientists.  In fact, I wonder if any salaried jobber is capable of independent thought.  They are confined by their universities' "missions," "grants," and general collective self-concept of what their institutions expect and require of their employees.  
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 12:55pm
Katharine - I didn't think you'd delete. I had the honour of being the first to respond to your post but it disappeared. Sometimes there are weird gremlins on WB.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 1:00pm
Neil - while it is true that water vapour has a greenhouse effect I have read a number of reports suggesting that the reflective properties outweigh the greenhouse retention. There was concern a while ago that plane trails were forming permanent cloud that could be affecting weather. I therefore posed it as one of the many proposals I have read on ways of reducing global temperature.
It sounds more viable to me than unfurling huge sheets to act as mirrors in space, covering vast swathes of land with white reflective sheets or seeding oceans with masses of ferrous oxide to encourage algal growth.
Katharine Otto Added Sep 30, 2018 - 1:11pm
It's hard to respond to your comments succinctly, because you cover so much ground.  I appreciate your involvement and thoughtful responses.  
I can't figure Trump out.  Lately, I wonder if he's controlled by the military, as so many recent presidents have been, maybe more than we know.  Everyone seems to be looking for leadership, but I wonder if we're looking outside for answers that really lie within.  That is the main idea lurking behind this essay on thought forms, that our thoughts have power and can be directed to healthier futures for ourselves and the planet as a whole.
Your explanation about science makes sense.  You seem to understand that the climate change issue remains a hypothesis, just as gravity remains a theory and a working hypothesis, until it no longer works.  What bugs me is the seeming absolutism of scientific dogma to promote a political point of view that preempts healthy debate and consideration of all the possible variables.
Katharine Otto Added Sep 30, 2018 - 1:25pm
I've made a glancing attempt to respond to your points, but more directly, my advice would be to be careful what you wish for.  Would we want to make it cooler?  I remember when then Georgia governor Sonny Perdue prayed for rain and got torrential downpours in the mountains that caused flooding and a couple of fatalities.  
My version of influencing the weather is to ask for cooperation from animals and plants to create an environment more comfortable for all, without trying to control the outcome.  I'm sure it sounds silly, but it represents a conscious effort to cooperate with all those life forms that are affected by weather. 
As far as university scientists are concerned, I think we need to recognize and acknowledge that they don't know everything, nor should they.  I mentioned the psychiatric organizations above to demonstrate the surprising lack of professional boundaries in the various fields of knowledge.  Psychiatrists are not trained in "climate science," nor should they make public statements about it.  We have an "epidemic" of people speaking outside their areas of expertise, and claiming knowledge when they are either bluffing or have been misinformed. 
Katharine Otto Added Sep 30, 2018 - 1:43pm
Thanks for reading and for your ongoing support.  By the way, it seems the climate change agenda includes a push for more nuclear power, under the pretext that it is CO2-free.  What do you think about that?  (see below).
Michael B.,
Things heating up too much for you?  I have lots of fans and wonder if all that air conditioning other people use is contributing to global warming.  Burghal could probably tell us how electricity use spikes on the hottest summer days, I believe more than in winter.  
Yes, a reasonable supposition.  Glad you're enjoying your extended summer.  I remember Edgar Cayce predicted the polar axis would shift around now.  Maybe the earth is tilting differently and shifting seasons around.  
Glad to know it's cooler somewhere.  They'll be proposing real estate developments in Antarctica next.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 1:48pm
Katharine - I always keep an open mind on the power of the mind. I believe in the power of the zeitgeist and have remarked on many instances that we do seem to connect mentally in ways that are not yet scientifically proven.
There's more to human consciousness than has presently been understood. I don't know as I'd go as far as to suggest that we can control weather or climate though.
Neil Lock Added Sep 30, 2018 - 1:57pm
Opher: Neil - so you are claiming that all the tens of thousands of temperature recordings over globe are all inaccurate, that the aggregating of these temperatures is an inaccurate way of assessing global temperature and that all scientists carrying out this work are fiddling the results and are being paid to do so.
Other than replacing the word "all" before "scientists" by "some," I agree with that statement.
And yes I'd lock up any lying bastard who is fiddling results. Because they provide the obfuscation that enables deniers to come out with their rubbish.
Opher, you are implicitly calling me a "denier." But of what? Can you give me a succinct statement of what you think it is that I "deny?"
Katharine Otto Added Sep 30, 2018 - 2:06pm
I didn't know that about Annie Besant.  I guess Fabian socialism was popular around that time, and it seems to have gone mainstream today.  Now I wonder if the Fabian socialist agenda includes promoting fearsome predictions about the disastrous (but unspecified) effects of climate change, better to sell carbon credits and nuclear power.  Maybe far-fetched.  I do wonder about the agenda, though.
Thanks for your comment, but it doesn't tell me anything new.  Water vapor already constitutes 95% of so-called greenhouse gases, and it is believed to have a cooling effect, because it reflects solar radiation.  As the planet warms, it should cause more evaporation, so why are oceans rising, if, indeed they are?  Some believe land is sinking as oceans rise, partly because of erosion, with a resultant flattening-out effect.  Then we have the question of the ever-shifting tectonic plates.  Let's consider the magnetosphere, too, as long as we're studying global weather.  Some say sunspots have decreased this century, which had a protective effect.  Is the polar axis shifting, or the magnetic poles?  Maybe that's why no one knows which way is up.
Considering carbon is a stable element, it's probably safe to say there is no more or less carbon on the planet than ever before.  It is the basic building block of all life.  To demonize carbon does not seem very scientific.  
Katharine Otto Added Sep 30, 2018 - 2:25pm
John Minehan,
I'd heard about acidification, too, so I'm glad Neil Locke answered that question.  The issue does seem so much more complex than anyone (or any institution) can hope to comprehend, but I believe the nature of science is perpetual inquiry, maybe without expectation of final answers.
Thanks again for your contributions.  Your comments and those of others have helped raise this thought form to a higher and more expansive level.  
A final note (for now):  As I was getting ready to post this article yesterday, I had to shut the computer down temporarily because of a thunderstorm, which cooled things off, slightly.  We may get some fall weather, yet.
Neil Lock Added Sep 30, 2018 - 2:28pm
OK, time to inject a note of levity. Katharine says to Michael B: I have lots of fans.
That's because you tell it as you see it, my lady friend.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:10pm
Katharine you are quite right to point out the feeling that there is scientific dogma around.   I think that this is down to the fact that our world wants to have issues simplified... we live in a soundbite driven world.
Yes climate change expectations are based around a working theory, just like gravity.   However I would not suggest that you use that knowledge to throw yourself off of a high building just because the science behind gravity is not "settled".  It is not settled behind climate chance either.   But that does not mean that we are not monumentally irresponsible and thoughtless towards future generations if we refuse to do something about it today because it affects profits in the short term.   Yet that is exactly what is happening in the USA.
On Trump and his foreign policy:   I believe that the USA knows that it is losing the game for control of the centre of future world trade and resources.... namely central Asia.   For years the USA (and before them the UK) have a history of shady dealing and outright skullduggery which has left them with few/no friends in the region. (the US has instead linked itself to Saudi which, let us not forget, is the country which gave us Osama Bin Laden).  
China, on the other hand, has been heavily investing in regional infrastructure (somewhere between $500 Billion and $1000 Billion) to win friends and ensure connection to the growing market.
Trumps administration is doing its best to disrupt this... I suspect via a mix of skullduggery and overt "diplomatic" pressure.  You can see this most clearly with what is happening in Iran and Pakistan.   I think that, because they feel that they are still the biggest dog in town, the US military is determined to show the region who is boss.
I personally think that they are set on having a go at Iran.   That would be commensurate with the recent ramping up of rhetoric and trampling over the nuclear agreement.  I don't know whether American skullduggery had anything to with the recent terrorist outrage in Iran... but the Iranians think it did.
All of this general behaviour has had the effect of throwing two traditional foes together.  Russia and China recently jointly held the biggest military exercise since the cold war with over 300,000 troops taking part... including a contingent from Mongolia (a central Asian country).   I really don't like where this is going.
Katharine Otto Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:25pm
I just now saw your comments that came between my foregoing responses.  I like this broadening and deepening of the conversation that takes so many different factors into consideration.  It doesn't surprise me that you believe in the power of the mind.  Any sci-fi fan and writer must be able to imagine possibilities beyond what we accept as 'fact."  I believe anything we can imagine can exist, so why not imagine futures we want?  Who knows whether we can consciously affect the weather, until we try it?  We agree the path the species is taking is not healthy, so why are we still on it?  Isn't it up to the individual to change thoughts and attitudes for the species to change course? 
I know you are trying, and lately you've seemed frustrated that others don't seem to get it.  I think they are waking up, but too slowly for my impatient self.  I do believe and hope the planet will survive.
It's probably safe to say that "all scientists" are human and subject to human failing, including emotional attachment to some of their beliefs.  People see what they want or need to see, which I think is okay as long as they acknowledge and respect other people's differing perspectives.  To me, healthy skepticism is not the same thing as "denial."  The former promotes inquiry, while the latter squelches it.  My understanding of science is that it maintains a healthy skepticism about everything.
And thank you for the compliment.  I try, but my perspective keeps changing, so it's sometimes hard to keep up with myself.  I wish no less for others.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 3:41pm
Katherine:  The planet will definitely survive.  But we may not.  We are not mission critical as far as planet Earth is concerned.
Flying Junior Added Sep 30, 2018 - 4:32pm
Opher and Robin,
It clearly is not very practicable or we would have started doing it years ago to prevent deforestation and desertification of once fertile  and wet ecosystems, but in theory the best way to sequestrate carbon is of course to plant forests and other massive arboreal and agricultural projects.  As a living plant respirates CO² and gives off oxygen, that carbon becomes part of the living plant.  Thus trees and forests are the greatest places where carbon can be stored.
Sadly, when forests are cut down for farmland especially in regions with the great rainforests, the land quickly dries up.  This has been happenning since mankind learned to build settlements
Terraforming.  Perhaps we need to learn how to make this so.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Sep 30, 2018 - 5:31pm
FJ:  To some extent in the Cotswolds more trees have appeared over the last 100 years or so for whatever reason.  You can see from old photographs that the Wolds used to have far fewer trees than they have today.  Perhaps this is due to the decline of sheep in the area as a major industry and the turning over of tracts of land to woodland.  Certainly it means that we have some magnificent walking country available to us.
It would be a very small drop in a very hot bucket... but if we could all plant an extra tree on our back yard it might be something...   Perhaps office blocks could all be required in future to plant trees and other vegetation on their roofs and walls... I understand that this could also help by reducing the need for heating and cooling... thereby saving CO2 emissions again.   One of my friends, a landscape gardener, has planted a "green roof" on his garage with walking platforms either side to allow access.
When we built our new house in the old back garden I was very pleased to be able to save the huge old field maple that grows there.  As well as sucking up carbon it looks magnificent.    I am sure that being around trees and other growing things is also good for our general mental well being.  Well it makes me feel good anyway....
London, as a city, instigated the planting of plane trees as a deliberate way of reducing pollution from coal fires.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 6:23pm
Neil - you appear to be putting yourself in that position. You are making a case that scientists are lying. I'm questioning that. I do not think all those tens of thousands of temperature reading and aggregations are false. I do not believe the conspiracy theory that this is being politically set up. I think that is nonsense. The evidence is overwhelming.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 6:25pm
Katharine - there is much we do not yet know. The mind and connections to each other is one of them. I have had many strange coincidences. The zeitgeist of the time is an interesting phenomenon. I do not think that it would extend to altering climate but I'd keep an open mind (no pun) on it all.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 6:27pm
Neil - you are denying that there is global warming.
opher goodwin Added Sep 30, 2018 - 6:29pm
FJ - planting millions more trees would certainly help. But my concern is that they are chopping down rich habitat at an alarming rate and driving animals to extinct. Once they're gone they can't come back.
We are wiping animals out at an alarming rate.
Ward Tipton Added Sep 30, 2018 - 10:22pm
Katharine - You are then referring to "Self Fulfilling Prophecies" as much as collective thought and the ability of the collective thought to generate a physical occurrence yes? Or perhaps some aggregation of the twain? 
Robin - I stated clearly what I meant, I do not understand your need to infer tangents from my comments. If you have a direct question, please feel free to ask, but trying to put thoughts in my head or infer what is not said nor present is not going to be conducive to a productive conversation.
I do however, like the idea of planting trees, though I am currently involved more personally with planting large-scale food forests as opposed to just trees. Historically, these are relatively small and seek not to disturb existing ecosystems but I propose more large-scale introductions ... often creating quite the controversy. 
Ward Tipton Added Sep 30, 2018 - 10:26pm
I wonder also ... are their equal concerns about Greenland and Iceland? The former inhabitants of what is now the bottom of the English Channel? Should Niagara Falls, the great drain basin of the great lakes be left to continue eroding everything in its path as it carves out more and more land naturally, or should we retain the existing structures to halt the destructive progression of nature? Should Chicago be as it is now or should we seek to have it covered under kilometers of ice? What about the Bay of Alaska? Should we live it frozen or thawed as it has gone through both cycles enough times to create mountains and valleys in the Bay of Alaska generating the amazing scenery that we enjoy there today. 
Perhaps we should just expect that the climate and the geography and geology of the planet are going to change, get our collective chit together and prepare for it no matter what it does? 
Do you personally know anyone who wants to suck on a car exhaust pipe every time that they inhale or drink brackish water every time they suffer from thirst? I hardly think such a person exists ... or at least, they likely would not survive for long if they did. 
Gerrilea Added Oct 1, 2018 - 10:08am
Flying J---
"What kills me is the absolute faith of the denial crowd.  Historic wildfires in California.  Category Five hurricanes in the Atlantic.  Nothing will convince them.  Everybody knows that hurricanes are caused by the interaction of extreme heat and cold.  But they can't see a connection to global warming."
This is pure propaganda and not even close to being science based.  You were presented months ago the facts.  The wildfires in California are because of your state's failure at land management, intentionally.
You were also shown that over the past 60+ yrs named hurricanes have GONE DOWN.  Getting a few major storms does not equal AGW.
My critique of the warming alarmists is their failure to actually read the science and data. My "faith" has nothing to do with this, it's only the facts and how they're falsely "interpreted" to set an agenda to continue our enslavement.
We have the technology today to reduce human production of GHG's by 40% in rural areas and up to  60% in urban settings with better building insulation and a banning on megalithic glass buildings.
It ain't rocket science.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 1, 2018 - 1:46pm
I'm all for planting trees and other vegetation, as well as for green roofs.  Solar panels, besides converting heat to electricity, provide shade.  These are pro-active things people could do, whether they believe in global warming or not. 
In fact, I'm less interested in whether it's occurring than in what to do about it.  The "experts" are so busy looking for 'leadership" from scientists and government that they don't seem to be looking at the ongoing contributions to the problem, such as continued deforestation, DOD extravagance, international shipping, the ethanol mandate, and the inefficient architecture, such as Gerrilea mentions above.  While I don't like the idea of banning, I would like to see energy efficiency at the top of the list of architectural priorities. 
Katharine Otto Added Oct 1, 2018 - 1:52pm
These are the kinds of things people should be more aware of.  Trees have many advantages, such as filtering the air, blocking noise, shading, providing habitat for birds and other wildlife, and being beautiful, as well as providing carbon sinks and exhaling O2.  But any plant will absorb CO2.  Forests to farmlands is not as bad as forests to real-estate developments or airports, according to me.  Over-development is yet another causative factor in our planetary destruction scenario.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 1, 2018 - 2:01pm
If it's hard to imagine a thought form that changes the weather directly, perhaps you can imagine a global awakening that appreciates what we still have enough to maintain it.  The more I read about the earth-rape that is occurring as fast as the profiteers can get away with it, the more horrified I become, too. 
While you and I are diametrically opposed regarding government's ability or even desire to solve the problems, I agree wholeheartedly that the path we continue to tread, almost blindly, is not healthy for man, animals, or plants, or even the earth itself.  It seems the best solutions may be the simplest ones, with awakened individuals leading the way.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Oct 1, 2018 - 2:03pm
Here we have very tight restrictions on the thermal performance of buildings.   When we built our current house this included a pressure test.  Basically they pump up the air pressure inside the building and measure how quickly it decays.   Ventilation is then added back in by way of mechanical means using heat recovery to warm up the fresh air being brought in.   We also use under floor heating, which uses a much lower temperature than conventional radiators, and is therefore more fuel efficient.  All lighting is low energy as well.   All of this helps to some degree in reducing the "footprint" of our house.
Where I worked in Switzerland for a while, air conditioning (heat pump based) was not permitted for environmental reasons.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 1, 2018 - 2:15pm
Absolutely "self-fulfilling prophecy" comes into play.  The attitude of "Why change when the disastrous outcome is inevitable?" tempts people to give up without trying.  Also, we already have too much of shifting responsibility (and blame) to those nameless, faceless, blobs of humanity called "leaders," the "0.1%," and various others who are presumed to be in control of the planet and its future.
As to your other comment, the earth is always changing herself, without man's help.  The plants and animals adapt, change location, or die out.  Modern man doesn't like it when his real-estate is affected, but some native Americans didn't understand the concept of permanent dwellings so adapted to "climate change" more readily.  
Katharine Otto Added Oct 1, 2018 - 2:26pm
I think the "science" of the matter is ultimately that it's much more complex than anyone understands.  Energy efficiency seems practical from my standpoint, but many people don't seem to comprehend or care about simplicity or practicality--at least not to the extent I would like. 
In an ideal world, conservation of and respect for resources would be normal and expected, but we have been conditioned to equate luxury, excess, and waste with quality and "living standards".  They are not the same.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Oct 1, 2018 - 3:03pm
In the West we have, I think, largely lost contact with the true meaning of living a "good" life.   By "good" I don't mean virtuous.   I mean a life which is happy, fulfilled and meaningful.  
Beyond a very basic need for food, shelter, warmth etc etc, monetary wealth does not drive actual happiness.   Other things such as good health, sense of achievement, time for reflection, interaction with others, exercising creativity etc etc are the primary drivers.  (and, most importantly, singing!... at least twice as good as exercise for giving you a high)  
Continually chasing more and more stuff is a bit like a drug habit.  Each time you attain something, like say a new car, you get a temporary "high".  This "high" however soon wears off to be replaced by a craving for the next "hit".   We don't actually need all of this stuff... we are just conditioned to want it.   You can see the truth of this by just looking in my garage... whatever made me think I needed a breadmaker?
Getting everyone to see the truth of this, and change their lives accordingly, would do an awful lot to help the environment.
I should also say that, an appreciation of nature, is one of the best antidotes for status anxiety... a disease that is prevalent amongst us, especially in America.   I often look at David Attenborough and think that he must be one of the happiest people alive...
Neil Lock Added Oct 1, 2018 - 3:41pm
Robin: Oh dear. To me, David Attenborough is one of the most rotten individuals alive. He himself has had children, but he pushes for policies to stop other people having children!
My take is this: If you think that people ought to make sacrifices for some cause, then to be credible, you yourself must make (or have made) sacrifices for that cause, that are far greater than what you are asking of others.
Barath Nagarajan Added Oct 1, 2018 - 4:10pm
    Love thy neighbor
and Thou shalt not kill
does not mean kill thy neighbor for not believing in Jehovah.
    When you start asking for sacrifice you will never be satisfied till you own everyone's souls.
Asked and answered.
Ward Tipton Added Oct 1, 2018 - 10:15pm
Al Gore and his Al Gore Rhythms were busy celebrating just off the beaches of Southern California, sucking up the kilowatt hours and awaiting a new masseuse and were unavailable for comment. 
Gerrilea Added Oct 2, 2018 - 12:50am
Katharine O--
"In an ideal world, conservation of and respect for resources would be normal and expected, but we have been conditioned to equate luxury, excess, and waste with quality and "living standards".  They are not the same."
So absolutely true.
Energy efficiency is a no-brainer for me.  Why waste anything in an ecosystem that is truly closed?  It's gluttony to me if we don't try.
I'd love to see solar panels, geothermal and wind with Thorium Salt Reactors to convert our non-recyclable waste into usable energy. Then we need to go on massive tree planting crusades, goal 1 Billion, no less. 
We'd need to modify our values as a species and the societies we've created to make it truly happen.  Leave the world a better place than they way you found it.
Mr. Vengeance Added Oct 2, 2018 - 1:41am
@ KO - My apologies for some of my uncouth behavior on your thread, but I can barely stand foreigners in general, and limeys in particular, weighing in on internal U.S. politics. Their canned oral bowel movements are usually something along the lines of, "Well, whatever those asshole Americans do affects me personally, so I have a say in this!" No shit, Sherlock, which is why many of us would rather have less and less to do with your sorry asses. It never seems to occur to such people that the reverse is true as well.
A couple of years ago, I mentioned something about the Brexit, and within seconds, I was piled onto by a baker's dozen of indignant fish-and-chip gobblers to essentially mind my own fucking business. Fair enough, thought I, as I don't live there, and certainly don't vote there, so who the fuck am I? However, I insist that they pay me and my fellow Americans the same fucking courtesy.
Anyway, I was listening to one of my favorite singers of all time, the lovely Kathleen Wilhoite, and a song from her 2002 album Shiva brought you to mind, I hope you like it:
"On My Couch":
Robin the red breasted songster Added Oct 2, 2018 - 2:23am
Michael B:   The thing is, like it or not, what happens in the US affects us all.   As a Canadian once said:  "to say that we are independent of the USA is to say that a mouse in bed with an Elephant is independent of the Elephant.   If the Elephant rolls over, then the mouse had better roll over too."
America should be the leader of the world.  It is currently the world's richest country and has the biggest military by far.  
However right now I feel that, thanks to Trump and co, we are being led to hell in a handcart.  I am bloody angry about it.
I would also say that I really can't stand Americans with this blind "America is the Greatest" attitude.  (I can't stand anyone of any nationality that has this attitude actually... but it does seem to be Americans more than any other which tend to hold it).  Especially those who refuse to consider that somewhere else in the world might be handling things in a way which is worth learning from.   This is especially true on things like gun control and health care.   It betrays an arrogance which is breathtaking.
When people like you resort to such foul language as you have, it makes me realise that, actually, you have nothing to say.
Robin the red breasted songster Added Oct 2, 2018 - 2:30am
Neil:  I actually made no judgement on David Attenborough's moral standing... just how happy a man he appears to be to me.
I guess that your argument is that we should all be doing our bit for population control.   My understanding, gained from time in the IFRC, is that we have reached peak child in global terms.   Thanks to better social services and health care in the poorer parts of the world, the birth rate has dropped.    It seems that the population will still rise because of what is "in the pipeline" but should top out at about 11 Billion.   4 Billion more than now.
The problem for the world is not that we have many more actual people on the way, but that we are in deep trouble if all of the people who are here start to use resources and create pollution at the same rate as we have become used to in the USA and Western Europe.
Locally, in the UK, it may well be that, after Brexit, our population will shrink.   The problem for us will be that it will be shrinking from the bottom up...i.e. it will be the young and fit who leave putting a greater tax burden on those who remain.  LSE estimates that this will be about £6 Billion per year if the Gov's initial targets on immigration are met
Flying Junior Added Oct 2, 2018 - 3:30am
I think your observation that the DOD is the greatest contributor of greenhouse gases in the world is very likely an astute observation.  I would imagine that it might be difficult to prove given the secrecy which cloaks our armed forces.  It does appear that they have been developing electric and hybrid vehicle programs for the last fifteen years.
Oddly enough electric and hybrid technology doesn't adapt to oceans and sky.
Steel Breeze Added Oct 2, 2018 - 9:43am
back in the 80s i think, there was a movie somewhat along these lines....The Lathe of Heaven.....where a well intentioned man discovered that whatever he dreamed became reality,so he set about curing man's ills.....with less than satisfying results,lol....
Ian Thorpe Added Oct 2, 2018 - 1:56pm
For some mystifying reason, the weather in Mallorca was cooler and cloudy on Monday, 1 Oct, the day we were preparing to return to UK and had no need to focus our thoughts on keeping the weather great. Today, as our plane lifted off, it was decidedly cooler and raining steadily.
QED for Katherine and the Theosophists I'd say.

Ward, there is such a thing as a good cup of tea, but what qualifies for that distinction is very much a matter of opinion.
A nice cup of tea is a phrase still sometimes used by a particularly twee type of middle class English person (or Arthur Dent in Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. It is also one of the tortures the Inquisitors in Monty Puthon's Spanish Inquisition sketch threaten the heretic harmless old granny with.
Ian Thorpe Added Oct 2, 2018 - 2:09pm
Katherine, I'll address the role of the Fabians in the development of socialism and Cultural Marxism in an article. May take a couple of weeks to get together though, first I'll have to climb into the attic and dig out my social and economic history books.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 2, 2018 - 2:38pm
The smug superiority of Westerners, because we have more comforts and "stuff," seems counterbalanced by the lack of fulfillment, the general dissatisfaction and irritability, as well as inability to appreciate what we have.  The constant striving for more or better, the competitiveness, and the pervasive paranoia makes people much touchier and more humorless than they need to be.  I agree about nature being restorative.  I'm not a singer, except to the radio in the car, but can appreciate that it can be soul-satisfying.  We as a society  seem way too uptight about singing (and dancing), but could stand for some loosening up along these lines.
Kudos on your energy-friendly house.  There are so many unexplored avenues for designing comfortable and practical living spaces, such as floor-heating.  It could be a fascinating career for someone younger and creatively inclined.  I've thought of floor cooling, too, for people in climates like mine, or energy-efficient ways to reduce humidity.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 2, 2018 - 2:50pm
It does seem hypocritical to ask others to make sacrifices I'm not willing to make.  I didn't propagate, but only partially because of the over-population problem.  I'm just too selfish to have wanted someone dependent on me for so long.  So what did I do?  I got pets, that are not only dependent but don't do anything useful.  Also, they may be another avenue to fulfillment, for some people, as Robin mentions with singing or nature.  
Rather than ask people to make sacrifices, maybe it's preferable to live one's own beliefs, as much as possible.  I have re-usable coffee mug and shopping bags and drive a hybrid-electric car.  I wish I didn't need a car.  I have air-conditioning but don't use it, and I have a wood stove that burns fallen limbs from my yard in the winter.
I had to Google David Attenborough.  I guess he's a British hero and "national treasure," but I'd never heard of him.  Wikipedia says he's 92 years old.  I figure to live that long, he must be happy enough.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 2, 2018 - 3:04pm
Michael B.,
I probably shouldn't admit this, but I think some of your slams against "Limeys" are funny.  I have my issues with the Brits, too, since much of the US attitude is inherited from them.  Remember most of our "Founding Fathers" were of British descent and strong Anglophiles.  I think the Anglos were pretty savvy throwing the Revolutionary War our way and transferring the responsibility and cost of Empire to the US, making us handmaidens to the aristocrats and mercantilists abroad.  
As far as "Limeys" or others criticizing the US goes, I happen to welcome the criticism, because for the most part, I agree.  The US meddles too much in foreign affairs, while not attending enough to problems at home.  And yes, we could stand to adapt from others, such as the metric system, which even the Brits have done.
As far as Brexit is concerned, I've found differing opinions even among UK residents.  It's a hot issue, so don't stick your hand in the fire unless you like getting burned.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 2, 2018 - 3:12pm
Yes, to what end do people ask others to sacrifice, especially if they're not willing to do the same?
Massage.  Now, there's another under-appreciated art.  I've wondered if generalized skin-starvation contributes to people's "up-tightness."  The US preoccupation, of late, with sexuality reminds me that we have some strange notions about non-sexual touching.  You might be surprised at how even married people look uncomfortable when I mention giving each other foot rubs (reflexology).
Katharine Otto Added Oct 2, 2018 - 3:23pm
I'm more inclined to think small rather than big, as with prototypes that serve to correct small mistakes before they become big ones.  An analogy might be that of an oak tree.  It doesn't start out 10 meters high.  It starts as an acorn and grows from the inside out, but only reaches its potential optimum height with the right conditions and time.  
To change the world, I believe people's attitudes need to change to one of personal responsibility for being part of the solution.  Too much displacement on outside authority, such as government, to force blanket changes on a resistant population.  When you have government actively supporting the eco-rapists, too, it makes for a very disjointed and counter-productive arrangement.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 2, 2018 - 3:38pm
Michael B.,
I just listened to Kathleen Wilhoite's "On My Couch."  I couldn't understand all of the words, but liked the allusion to finding someone to blame, a big issue with me.  I've never understood blame, but our society thrives on it.  My feeling is that if there's a problem, anyone could have caused it, and everyone can benefit from finding a solution.  Blame just obstructs finding solutions.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 2, 2018 - 3:44pm
I guess the DOD is doing a lot of forward-going things, too, such as solar installations and composting, but they don't advertise it.  Too bad.  No one but me thinks the DOD should bring troops home and put them to work doing constructive things, like repairing outworn infrastructure.  
Katharine Otto Added Oct 2, 2018 - 3:50pm
Glad to have made your weather more comfortable, even if a little late.  My weather-making skills are improving.
Thanks for the explanation of a "nice cup of tea."  I didn't remember the allusion in Hitchhiker's Guide or Monty Python.  
Please do write an article on Fabian socialism.  I only know about it from a brief explanation in Creature from Jekyll Island.  I remember the seal includes a wolf in a sheepskin cloak.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 2, 2018 - 3:52pm
Steel Breeze,
Sounds like an interesting movie.  I'd like to see it.  As some people say, "Be careful what you wish for."
The Burghal Hidage Added Oct 3, 2018 - 11:36am
If I may facilitate as translator for Michael B to our English cousins:
 We don' wanna be your leader, right? Sod off, the lot o' ya!'ll be the comfy chair for you!
Ian Thorpe Added Oct 3, 2018 - 12:29pm
Burghal, don't forget the soft cushions
Watch carefully for Burghal's close up in this clip. I swear he hasn't aged a day in the forty odd years since it was made.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 3, 2018 - 1:37pm
Burghal and Ian,
Very cute.  I do love Monty Python and the British wit.  I wish USians had inherited more of it.
Mr. Vengeance Added Oct 3, 2018 - 3:58pm
@ KO - I'm glad you liked the song. I actually met her at a sound check and she signed a CD for me. She was, and still is, a total sweetheart, in addition to being a severely underrated artist.
Ward Tipton Added Oct 4, 2018 - 1:30am
And now, for something completely different ... 
Jeff Michka Added Oct 4, 2018 - 9:56pm
Well, KO, you touched the third rail of WB and brought out WB's collection of expert climate scientists.  It's always a big draw and zero-sum game here.  Respect of reason, climate has changed so the composition of undergrowth is such it builds up and burns.  As each year goes by, our forests are in worse shape than the year before, and year before...all prone to burn.  Trees are dry and brittle. We had no August here,  all white sky, and air was so bad it set off our smoke alarms, all due to fires here, in Canada, Oregon and California.  This is year two of this.  WA State DNR is embarking on a giant program of "controlled burns" to reduce fuels on forest floors and kill the undergrowth.  Part of this resulted from "No burn" policies fighting fires.  The object is immediately putting out every small fire over decades.  Sounds like climate change and bad practices combined.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 5, 2018 - 10:05pm
Many factors at work here,  I still wonder if man can influence climate to make it warmer, maybe we can influence it to make it cooler and to rain more in the Pacific Northwest.  Know any rain dances?  No torrential downpours, you understand, but just a little pitter-patter to last a few weeks.  I figure the wildlife will want to cooperate, if asked politely.
It occurs to me that if we human beings wised up, we could use our enormous brain power in earth-healing ways, rather than wasting it on fighting and conflict.
Ward Tipton Added Oct 6, 2018 - 1:15am
I find it very odd that so many people are so incapable of compromise. If you deny even the craziest aspect of their pseudo-religious system of beliefs, you are automatically labeled to be a science denier for paying attention to actual science and not faux numbers and fully ostracized, deemed unworthy even of mention, much less engaging in actual conversation. 
Last time I checked, I could not find anyone who wanted to suck dirty air or swill brackish water. Nobody I have ever talked to has been objectionable to becoming better stewards of the environment. Still, while they may be objectionable to throwing us all back into the stone age to do it, and forcing everyone to live in caves and chop down even more trees and burn them in open fires to prevent freezing to death and even for cooking, I cannot personally see how such actions are beneficial to the environment to begin with. This does not mean that we do not believe in being better stewards, just that we need to find better solutions for doing so. 
Katharine Otto Added Oct 6, 2018 - 1:27pm
I suspect few people understand the consequences of their actions.  They know even less about science and are willing to accept (or deny) unquestioningly the scientific establishment's claims, based on faith (or lack of it).  For instance, how many people make the connection between our heavily subsidized junk mail and deforestation?  Or the excess of single-use packaging?  The perpetual wars and the DOD's extensive use of fossil fuels?  American consumerism and the international shipping that makes sure that we get cheap products (including cheap quality) made by virtual slave labor in India, China, and other third world countries?  The waste, encouraged by advertising and Wall Street?  The ethanol mandate, or even electric cars, which don't save energy but put more stress on electrical grids?  As long as industrialization is perceived as beneficial, we will continue to be inundated with planned-obsolescence and frivolous products (like electric can openers or blowers) that create "jobs" to keep the machine's wheels spinning.
The American public has been misinformed and under-informed by all sides, and not encouraged to think more deeply about how energy is over-used and mis-used for short-sighted and destructive purposes.
Jeff Michka Added Oct 6, 2018 - 7:32pm
KO...we seasonally get "the rains" here, but less and less than years before.  It has rained a bit NW wise, and fires are on abatement.  The state is conducting "controlled burns" to moderate fuels that really feed wildfires, and have to agree with 'rilla's comments, suggesting some of the fire issues are man made due to poor forestry practices conducted for decades.  However, it does alter the climate is changing., whether WB rightist believe it is or not.  Fortunately, for us, we won't be in the States next summer, so won't have to deal with the extremely bad air and white skies, those are predicted next year from June through September.
Ward Tipton Added Oct 6, 2018 - 9:06pm
I have not seen anyone here disregarding the fact that climate is changing. Which rather highlights my previous point. We all have freely admitted that the climate has changed as long as we have had one. 
Rather than seeking to divide based on the differences in our interpretations of the facts, why isn't anyone making a concerted effort to work together to implement viable solutions? 
Katharine Otto Added Oct 7, 2018 - 11:19am
Certainly forest mismanagement has contributed to the problem, but also over-development, erosion, and changing of the landscape with dams and other interventions, including sucking up groundwater for houses, industry, agriculture, and golf courses.  Probably the  best thing people can do for the environment there is to leave it, as you plan to do.
Katharine Otto Added Oct 7, 2018 - 11:20am
Well, Ward,
I think I made several suggestions about how we could work together to alleviate the problems, but you didn't acknowledge a single one of them.  What solutions would you recommend?
Ward Tipton Added Oct 8, 2018 - 7:23am
I had not addressed any of your particular comments because I believe we are very much in agreement on the majority of this subject. I was directing that last couple of comments more at the alarmists who decry anyone who fails to buy into even the most asinine aspects of their pseudo-religious beliefs in the anthropomorphic models.
Changing the entire economic system would be a very good start in my opinion, though it is not likely to happen without a major amount of destruction to both the environment and humanity as I doubt the proverbial powers that be would allow it ... much like some of my other solutions. 
Permaculture and RUrban design in urban population centers. Food forests as opposed to less purposeful "greenbelts" in the inner cities. Expanded food forests in more rural areas to provide not only a means for the earth to absorb more of the CO2, but also to greatly increase production from current levels with monocrop agricultural methods. Actively pursuing alternative energy resources rather than buying out the patents and burying the technologies under "National Security" would also help ... but alas, the proverbial powers that be will not allow for any of this to happen under their watch ... not by choice anyhow.  
Katharine Otto Added Oct 9, 2018 - 2:56pm
Thanks for the acknowledgement, and I like your ideas, too.  Just commented on your most recent post.  
Let's talk about the "powers that be," whose power is delegated by (or usurped from) those who believe in money.  I think we've agreed on what fraud the Federal Reserve System is, and the debt-backed central banking conglomerate.  What would happen if the "masses" woke up and refused to accept the debt the "powers that be" have made in their names, without their knowledge or permission?  Maybe people would learn to cooperate like never before, in order to survive. 
You've written about the federal government's having become a corporation, and "citizens" property of the corporation, which is slavery by another name.  What happens to a slave who refuses to be owned?
For our grand visions to work, though, people do need to wake up and learn to think for themselves.  There's no need to compromise when no one has any ideas. 
Robin the red breasted songster Added Oct 23, 2018 - 4:40am
The ways to tackle the unpleasant effects of climate change broadly fall into several main types:
1.  Those designed to reduce human impact on the climate by CO2 and other emissions such as using telecom rather than travel, more efficient forms of travel, low food miles campaigns, eating vegetables rather than meat, using renewables and nuclear rather than carbon based fuels etc etc
2.  Those designed to "roll back" those emissions by sucking CO2 and other gases from the atmosphere.  These include planting new forests and artificial pumps.
3.  Those designed to reduce the amount of radiation reached the earth from the sun.   These include giant space "awnings" designed to give shade.
4.  Solutions designed to adapt human life to the changing climate.  These include the migration of populations away from vulnerable areas (the USA has the least populated "good" land on earth and is therefore a good destination for uprooted people), large scale engineering work to protect vulnerable coastline, development of drought and flood resistant crops, strict population control, development of new land such as what is currently tundra in the northern hemisphere.
I guess that the question is that, of all of these activities, which will be the most effective in terms of return on capital employed and protection of the population.   I do think, however, that investment solely in type 4 solutions merely "kicks the can down the road".   We need systemic solutions rather than sticking plasters.
Ward Tipton Added Oct 23, 2018 - 8:02am
"What would happen if the "masses" woke up and refused to accept the debt the "powers that be" have made in their names, without their knowledge or permission?  Maybe people would learn to cooperate like never before, in order to survive. "
A song comes to mind ... Oh Happy Days! (Though I do not believe it to be a very likely scenario unfortunately) I was actually part of a corporate venture back in the early seventies known as "Barter Systems" but alas ... big brother did not like the competition. 
"What happens to a slave who refuses to be owned?"
If their legal fiction is terminated as mine was, by legal definition, my natural life ended ... though it has never been taken all the way to the supreme court yet ... and I really do not feel like dedicating the rest of my life to a jail cell to see if they would recognize their own legal system ... but it makes life a challenge to be sure. Homeless and stateless is no way to go through life. 
Ward Tipton Added Oct 23, 2018 - 8:11am
"eating vegetables rather than meat" Cow farts! Save the planet! Eat more beef!
"sucking CO2 and other gases from the atmosphere.  These include planting new forests and artificial pumps."
Ideally food forests so we can eliminate hunger at the same time, replacing forested land with wholly natural ecosystems that feed substantially more people than monocrop farming ... but that would do away with the ability of the federal government to regulate and tax and poison all your food so ... not gonna happen. PS If you are trapping the CO2, can I have it? Increased CO2 levels in greenhouses are awesome for plant growth and production ... seems to me we kept ours at about ten percent ... roughly a hundred thousand parts per million, far above the four hundred parts per million people are screaming about and substantially more than the mere thirteen percent of four hundred parts per million that are attributable to human activity. What about all the methane and water vapor though? 
"These include giant space "awnings" designed to give shade." If I remember correctly, to cover the equator alone would require more than one million rocket launches. 
"development of new land such as what is currently tundra in the northern hemisphere" Aside from the fact that this would be man made climate change defined ... just because we can reclaim large swathes of land does not mean we should. My team has reclaimed over two hundred hectares of Ozzie Outback desert and within three years it had over forty cm of viable soil naturally ... but what do the deserts do in the overall picture of global climate? What does the tundra do? We know it has virtually always thawed and re-frozen but do we know what function it serves in the overall scheme of the earth? 
Katharine Otto Added Oct 23, 2018 - 3:01pm
The assumptions that CO2 is the major culprit, and that technological solutions are the cure underlie my basic concerns about the climate change agenda.  It sounds too much like a simplistic sales pitch for expensive and impractical boondoggles that create their own problems.  The result will have the ultimate effect of shifting wealth from those who pay for it (taxpayers) to those who profit from all these scare-mongering gimmicks.
What's wrong with cutting back, working less, earning less, spending less, wasting less, and making better use of what we already have?  Here's what's wrong:  It doesn't generate enough in taxes, Wall Street profits, or sell enough oil.  
Katharine Otto Added Oct 23, 2018 - 3:16pm
Homeless and stateless is an exceptional way to go through life, but it's undoubtedly lonely being an exception.  If it were socially condoned to be independent of any country, then more people would probably claim independent-of-country status.  
It shows the hypocrisy of governments, because they need their 'citizens" more than the "citizens" need them.  Too bad "citizens" have been brainwashed into believing it's the reverse.
Your cooperative concepts, the way you've described them, must work around governments, and money is necessary, because governments raise the costs (thus price) of everything.  The idea of food forests makes sense, but individuals have forgotten (if they ever knew) how to coordinate effort for the common good.  They've relied on governments and corporations to do this for them while they allowed themselves to be divided and conquered by their en-slavers.
Ward Tipton Added Oct 23, 2018 - 10:29pm
"It shows the hypocrisy of governments, because they need their 'citizens" more than the "citizens" need them.  Too bad "citizens" have been brainwashed into believing it's the reverse."
Actually I know many people still in the same line of work I used to be involved with, who know and understand the truth, but rather choose to ignore it rather than risk fighting the system or even just disappearing. 
"Your cooperative concepts, the way you've described them, must work around governments, and money is necessary, because governments raise the costs (thus price) of everything."
Yes, we have established them as parallel systems, and my understanding from what I have been told in certain circles, IF I manage to get around the obstacles that have been placed in my way and can establish everything in and among the islands and indigenous tribes as I currently have established, and IF it continues to run parallel to the current system they will allow it to continue ... then IF it is successful, they will come in and claim credit for it and begin implementation on a wider scale. I cannot feel that this is in at least a little way, the reason I was merely rendered stateless. 
Robin the red breasted songster Added Oct 24, 2018 - 1:37am
Yes Katherine... that is why the PTB do so much to try obfuscate and gaslight climate science.  Actions taken to save the human race will not sell enough oil.  That is why America is being a surrender monkey.

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