Veteran's Day

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Another Veteran's Day has come.  There will be parades for those who served in foreign wars, politicians will come and give speeches about the glories of patriotism and service and there will be interviews with vets on the local news.  All of this is fine.

 

But what does it all mean?

 

Veteran's Day coincides with Armistice Day, the day hostilities with Imperial Germany officially ended on November 11th, 1918.  This is the 100th anniversary of that date.  The U.S. renamed this day "Veteran's Day" to honor all those who served in 1954.  

 

I never served in the military but my father did, as did my uncles.  Two of my uncles made the Air Force their career after graduating from the Air Force Academy.  One of my earliest memories is attending my Uncle Allen's graduation in 1976.  I will always remember the fly over, to a child it was so cool to see the planes in formation like that.  I don't know what happened to them but my grandparents took pictures of the flyover and made the pictures into placemats.

 

I never denigrate those who serve.  This dishonors the memory of those who served and made sacrifices, some of them making the ultimate sacrifice.  Many of those who served are left with permanent injuries, some physical, some mental.  It seems to me we fail them much of the time.  Homeless vets, vets who don't get the services they need, vets who commit suicide, I know it is impossible to save everyone.  There will be those who slip through.

 

No, I have no solutions.  I think we need to remember this more often than we do.  Parades and platitudes are fine but also remember it isn't all about parades and uniforms.  If you know a vet make sure you let them know on occasion what they did or still do is important.

 

I never glorify war.  It's all dreams of glory and bravery until the bullets start flying and the bombs start  dropping.  In 1914 men and boys signed up dreaming of a quick war and glory.  It turned into a four-year bloodbath.  There was less enthusiasm for World War II but that turned into a six-year bloodbath.  The Korean War, Vietnam, these conflicts (and others) showed us there is often no glory, just blood, sacrifice and ruin.  Politicians forget these lessons after a time.  Soldiers often do not because they have longer institutional memories.  Maybe we all need reminders from time to time.

 

If I have anything to leave you with it is this:

Honor those who served even if those who sent them had no honor.

 

Happy Veteran's Day.

Comments

Liberal1 Added Nov 11, 2018 - 5:48pm
Thank you for NOT saying, "Thank you for your service".  that phrases means nothing to most vets (other than an occasion twinge).
 
The VAST majority of people in the service joined because they believed it was their patriotic duty to do so.  They joined because they believed they would be protecting America from those who wished to attack her.  They, as I did, quickly learned that we were "in the sand" or "the bush" not to protect our country from the people there, but because a bunch of politicians and corporate CEOs  decided, for "financial" reasons that we should be there.    (Yes, the people in that country fought back as hard and any way they could, but wouldn't you if someone "invaded" our country?)
 
The realization that your buddies fought and died to line some assholes pockets is why so many vets have PTSD.   The horror of modern warfare is the "why" not the "how".  The military is the "how" and they are trained to be aggressive and follow orders, so were went to the "sand" and fought.  We discovered "Why" there isn't any glory in killing some goat herder armed with a Mauser left over from WW I, "why"  there is no honor in blowing up unarmed kids with a drone and "why"  there is no patriotism in not defending your country.
 
So there can keep their parades, platitudes and "thanks for your service" and replace them with better vet care, vet suicide and PTSD reach-out programs and heartfelt "Thank you for your sacrifice and I'll show my sincerity by not voting for anyone who will support war for oil".
Katharine Otto Added Nov 11, 2018 - 5:55pm
Jeffrey,
Those who declare the wars don't have to fight the wars.  Usually, it's young people (males, historically) who have to fight the wars, and they are irrevocably damaged.
 
The US has a long history of using its armed forces and throwing them aside, beginning with George Washington's war.  When I suggest the military should be brought home to do useful things instead of spreading destruction and death, people tell me "it's not their job."  
 
Maybe we need to re-write their job descriptions, then.  While I'm not a fan of FDR, I did like the idea of the CCC, run by the military, and the self-esteem generated by doing something helpful instead of destructive.
Jeff Michka Added Nov 11, 2018 - 6:32pm
Actually, KO, I'll ag ree with John M's assessment of how troops Could be used for humanitarian aid dispersal, but they won't, at least not at the border.  And it's important to note, if the Orange Il Duce has his way, one day soon we'll have another war on our hands.  It will be a great distraction and deflection from whatever ails Il Duce at that moment.  Probably a war with Iran.  Sheldon Adelson has wanted a war with Iran for a time, and don't think awarding Adelson's wife with a presidential Freedom award won't satisfy Adelson. ol Sheldon can't start an international conflict.  The guy that plays a President on TV can start a war.unlike most casino magnates.  "I'm a bigger magnate than you," says Trump.  The saddest part of this is he'll count on patriotic Trumpists to get their sons and daughters to enlist and die in a war because, like Liberal1, they're "patriotic."  Liberal1 got all pissed off at me because I said troops on the border were stage props for Trump, but what else are they?  "Defenders" staving off an invasion of sick women and children, upper lips stiffened by their patriotism? We went through the emotions when the last Iraq war started, the press falling in line with the Whitehouse, because if they'd not, they or any war opponent "wouldn't be supporting the troops."  We've become a nation where "supporting the troops" means loving the war they fight. Seems false and empty to me, and another generation counting their dead kids and watching others fall apart from the aftermath, while not accomplishing much of anything but body counts of "dead Wogs."  How noble, how "brave." How bloody American.
Morgoth Added Nov 11, 2018 - 6:54pm
Thank you all for commenting.  I don’t really have much to say.  Liberal1, you are right, we need to do a much better job of taking care of our wounded veterans.  Katherine, those are excellent suggestions.  Jeff M, I feel free to despise politicians who use our troops as props, particularly those politicians who themselves never served.  No, we do not need yet another war in the Middle East.
Women are Inferior Added Nov 11, 2018 - 6:55pm
@ JK - "Parades and platitudes are fine but also remember it isn't all about parades and uniforms."
 
A good post full of good points. It's nice to see people with yellow ribbons on their bumpers along with things that state sentiments like "Support the Troops", but from my experience, nobody really gives a shit about veterans. They're often shamelessly used for political purposes (and, to be fair, vets also shamelessly use their veteran status for the same reasons), and at a minimum, people seem more interested in making themselves feel better by "supporting" veterans, out of guilt or whatever drives it.
 
As I was in the Army during the uneventful mid-to-late 1980's, the worst things I suffered was a small dent in my skull and a mild case of rotten peter, both from the same scummy dive at different times, so I have only a mild claim to veteran status. The only thing that pisses me off and infuriates me more than the fake vets (which I also wrote about here), however, are the ones who totally work the VA system for bullshit reasons, while veterans who are in much more dire need get cut short. Speaking of cutting short, I can write an essay on this very topic, so I'll quit while I'm behind, lol.
Flying Junior Added Nov 11, 2018 - 9:19pm
I enjoyed these comments and found much to appreciate.
//




Steel Breeze Added Nov 12, 2018 - 7:39am
thank you...
Morgoth Added Nov 12, 2018 - 9:00am
Thanks for all your comments.
 
BTW, thanks for keeping all of this non-political.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 12, 2018 - 11:06am
Honor those who served even if those who sent them had no honor.
 
Honor for the ignorance of participating for goals of others ?
 
THINK FIRST.
 
It's strange: I don't know a country which is more militaristic than the US. All the time there is talk about wars and army and Marines and whatever....seemingly everybody who lives in the US seems to have soldiers in the family.
 
What for ?
 
What the fuck is to DEFEND in a country that has borders with two oceans and cannot be invaded ?
 
No comprende, hombres LOL
Dino Manalis Added Nov 12, 2018 - 11:22am
 The goal should be peace through strength, while our veterans ought to have their health services paid by the Pentagon, because they deserve it, they're our heroes!
Stone-Eater Added Nov 12, 2018 - 11:47am
Dino
 
What is a "hero" ? Can you define that for me ?
Morgoth Added Nov 12, 2018 - 12:05pm
@Stone-Eater:
”Honor for the ignorance of participating for goals of others ?”
 
No different than what soldiers have done throughout time.  Including the Europeans, Stone or have you forgotten that in your self-righteous smugness?

 
“It's strange: I don't know a country which is more militaristic than the US. All the time there is talk about wars and army and Marines and whatever....seemingly everybody who lives in the US seems to have soldiers in the family.
 
What for ?
 
What the fuck is to DEFEND in a country that has borders with two oceans and cannot be invaded ?”
 
Why, for you guys much of the time, Stone.  You guys failed so often to keep your mess contained that it wound up involving us.  Our soldiers died for your wars, Stone.  Even our involvement in Vietnam extends from the French causing such a massive clusterfuck in the region.
 
“No comprende, hombres LOL”
 
No kidding, Stone.  Why can’t you guys keep your family squabbles to yourselves?
Stone-Eater Added Nov 12, 2018 - 1:14pm
You guys failed so often to keep your mess contained that it wound up involving us.
 
Which mess ? Did we Swiss start all those fucking colonies and wars ? It was your ancestors who started that and now the US goes the same way. Before, the French and the Brits thought they're exceptional. Now it's you.
 
Didn't learn from our mistakes, so it seems.
 
Sorry, no insult. But I fucking hate that we Europeans TRY to stand to our past and make it better now while others copy our bullshit and justify it by god's will or other crap.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 12, 2018 - 1:17pm
Why can’t you guys keep your family squabbles to yourselves?
 
Ah-huh. At least we don't transport our family quabbles across the planet anymore. Better try to solve your family squabbles at home. Black against white, reps against dems, everybody against everybody. Total harmony in ONE country, eh LOL
John Howard Added Nov 12, 2018 - 1:51pm
Anyone who volunteers to follow orders even though those orders may be evil is doing evil and does not deserve praise or respect.  That lesson was made clear during the Nuremberg Trials.
 
To suggest that we owe respect to all who "served" is an utter misuse of the idea of service.  
 
No one who volunteers to go murder foreigners for pay which is extorted from me is serving me.  The modern military is a bunch of parasitic mercenaries, not patriots.  They are not defending the country or its freedoms.  They are building an empire with stolen loot.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 12, 2018 - 2:16pm
Anyone who volunteers to follow orders even though those orders may be evil is doing evil and does not deserve praise or respect.
 
Thank you. But do these volunteers KNOW that they're doing evil ? No ! They're ideologized and influenced by the media and "state" opinion. 
 
Ask your vets. I'm pretty sure most wake up as if going through a nightmare and think: Why did I go there ? That's why most suffer from PTSD. Soldiers are mostly innocent VICTIMS - as the ones they kill are.
John Howard Added Nov 12, 2018 - 2:41pm
Stone-Eater,
 
I don't accept your notion that they don't know what they are doing, nor the notion that just because they don't realize that evil is evil, it's OK to do evil.  Anyone can deny knowing morality.  We can't withhold judgment on that account. 
 
It may be an explanation of why there is so much evil in the world, but it is not an excuse.  It is psychological in nature and therefore not factual. 
 
I am very suspicious of patriotism as the motive for much of anything.  I was in the military.  I listened.  Getting laid and getting paid were the main motives, to judge by the talk.  Flag waving and bible pounding were merely for show at ceremonial events.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 12, 2018 - 2:52pm
John
 
I don't excuse anything. Soldiers have brains. But there might be a certain pressure to join an army by family or environment, or sheer poverty (Army pays better than welfare and gives "reputation"). 
 
And I've read that most of the US soldiers in the past were either so-called white trash or black. If it's not true, correct me. Which means intellectuals weren't too eager to join the army but McDonald's employees the more.
 
I'm not sure which US president or high official sent his kids to Iraq or Syria lately. Probably none. The same accounts for our European "leaders". A bunch of privileged assholes who know rhetoric but not life.
John Howard Added Nov 12, 2018 - 2:53pm
Stone-Eater,
 
Adding to the above:  should we seriously forgive anyone who volunteers to go kill strangers without very carefully examining the reasoning that leads to that assignment?  Claiming later to have been fooled by the authorities on TV is absurd.  No truly moral person would take on the assignment of killing others without a great deal of research and careful, skeptical thought. 
 
I blame every soldier for what that soldier does unless he is a slave (conscript).  Killing someone because someone told you to is so utterly immoral and irresponsible that it defies defense.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 12, 2018 - 3:15pm
John
 
should we seriously forgive anyone who volunteers to go kill strangers without very carefully examining the reasoning that leads to that assignment?
 
I don't say forgive. But do consider: When your father was a soldier in a high rank, yuor nephews and others were in the army, your family goes hunting for a pastime, goes to church every sunday and has two US flags on the roof.
 
Then, you have a president who says on  the TV or radio: Beware of the communists ! They want to destroy America ! The Russians want to destroy us ! The mob of communist Mexicans want to wipe out ur identity !
 
Defend our country wherever it is ! In the name of god, we worked hard to develop our country, and no one will take it from us !
 
Now, you're 20 and live in a remote town, Nebraska.
 
Do you reflect about this or follow the call ?
Stone-Eater Added Nov 12, 2018 - 3:20pm
Jeffrey
 
I hope that now you understand what I mean. Such stuff goes deeper than just simple patriotism.
Morgoth Added Nov 12, 2018 - 3:22pm
@Stone Eater:
You guys failed so often to keep your mess contained that it wound up involving us.


 
Which mess ? Did we Swiss start all those fucking colonies and wars ?”
 
No, it was Europeans in general, Stone.  Why not paint with the same broad brush you paint all Americans?  Do I sound particularly militaristic to you?  I brought it up with some trepidation but I never blame those who go.  I blame the ones who send them.
 
 
“It was your ancestors who started that and now the US goes the same way.”
 
They are your ancestors as well, Stone.  Switzerland is a multiethnic country.
 
 
“Before, the French and the Brits thought they're exceptional. Now it's you.”
 
I don’t think we are exceptional.  Did you miss the bit where I said I don’t glorify war?
 
“Didn't learn from our mistakes, so it seems.”
 
Nope.  BTW that’s a human problem, not just a European or an American one.
 




 


Why can’t you guys keep your family squabbles to yourselves?
 
“Ah-huh. At least we don't transport our family quabbles across the planet anymore.”
 
But you did at one time.  A lot of this on-going mess is due to European interference in other regions and other countries.  It just got passed down.
 
“Better try to solve your family squabbles at home. Black against white, reps against dems, everybody against everybody. Total harmony in ONE country, eh LOL”
 
Not until we change or we blow ourselves to bits.

opher goodwin Added Nov 12, 2018 - 4:15pm
I must admit to having mixed feelings about veterans day - Remembrance day as it is here.
I want to respect the soldiers, sailors, airmen and merchant men who served, to respect the injured and slain. But I feel there is an underlying hypocrisy and jingoistic element of celebration, patriotism and nationalism that I do not like. The hierarchy and politicians, who start the wars and do not, for the most part, participate, take centre stage.
Liberal1 Added Nov 12, 2018 - 4:22pm
"Anyone who volunteers to follow orders even though those orders may be evil is doing evil and does not deserve praise or respect.  That lesson was made clear during the Nuremberg Trials."
 
John Howard, fuck you for implying the service of American soldiers, sailor and Marines is tantamount to being Nazis.  
 
That YOU have no understanding of the discipline, duty and honor required to serve your country is pathetic, supremely egotistical and and SHOULD be embarrassing.  I'd bet, if you were or would have been of the age, you'd have been one of the people who screamed "baby killers!" and then spit on our returning service men & women.
 
There is a time and a place to object to orders, bub.  Going into combat is NOT one of them.  Sadly, you are probably too wrapped up in your condescending and disingenuous bullshit to understand that.
 
If you want to take shots at the civilian leadership for sending them there is one thing, insulting the sacrifices they have made is another.
 
 
Stone-Eater, please answer a couple questions for me:
 
*  If the military is so horrible have you refused/actively assisted some one in refusing (if you are a female) the MANDATORY Swiss military service?
*  If the military is so terrible why do you CHOOSE to live in a country that REQUIRES it of all able-bodied males?
 
John Howard Added Nov 12, 2018 - 4:28pm
You continue (with argument-by-example) to make the case that some poor rube is "innocent" of killing because of his culture.  
 
You say this not to advocate forgiving, but simply to explain.  I don't buy it.  If we are going to explain away pointless murder with stories about poor rubes fooled by their culture, we are going to invite more poor rubes to pointlessly commit murder.  Further, your poor rube story depends upon your reading the mind of the poor rube to see his (psychological) innocence.  
 
A) psychology is nonsense since mind reading is nonsense (another debate perhaps) and
 
B) if we are going to have a civilization, we cannot say to people that murdering strangers is understandable, provided your family culture cheers you on. 
 
Civilization depends on a particular moral view of actions.  It cannot survive where morality (don't murder strangers) is overridden by personal beliefs (it's OK 'cause Dad did it and TV says so).
Stone-Eater Added Nov 12, 2018 - 4:53pm
Did I say I like it ? No. But it's a fact.
Morgoth Added Nov 12, 2018 - 5:00pm
@John Howard:
 
I’m sure in your self-righteous little fantasy land good and evil is black and white, therefore anyone who goes and kills for their country is simply a murderer.
 
It’s more complicated than that.  There are lots of reasons why countries go to war.  Fighting Nazis is certainly a worthy goal, engaging in imperial wars is not.  Much of it is somewhere in between.  
 
I blame civilian leadership, not the soldiers.  They go where they are sent.  They either volunteer or get drafted.  If people don’t like where soldiers are sent then get the fuck out and vote....or stop voting same dumbasses back into power.
Liberal1 Added Nov 12, 2018 - 5:02pm
Stone-Eater, so when you snidely say stuff like, "....seemingly everybody who lives in the US seems to have soldiers in the family." and then respond to my questions about the mandatory conscription in YOUR country with a "Did I say I like it ? No. But it's a fact.", you don't see the hypocrisy of saying things like that?

Flying Junior Added Nov 12, 2018 - 5:29pm

PRESIDENT REAGAN: Secretary Weinberger, Harry Walters, Robert Medairos, reverend clergy, ladies and gentlemen, a few moments ago I placed a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and as I stepped back and stood during the moment of silence that followed, I said a small prayer. And it occurred to me that each of my predecessors has had a similar moment, and I wondered if our prayers weren't very much the same, if not identical.
We celebrate Veterans Day on the anniversary of the armistice that ended World War I, the armistice that began on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month. And I wonder, in fact, if all Americans' prayers aren't the same as those I mentioned a moment ago. The timing of this holiday is quite deliberate in terms of historical fact but somehow it always seems quite fitting to me that this day comes deep in autumn when the colors are muted and the days seem to invite contemplation.
We are gathered at the National Cemetery, which provides a final resting place for the heroes who have defended our country since the Civil War. This amphitheater, this place for speeches, is more central to this cemetery than it first might seem apparent, for all we can ever do for our heroes is remember them and remember what they did -- and memories are transmitted through words.
Sometime back I received in the name of our country the bodies of four marines who had died while on active duty. I said then that there is a special sadness that accompanies the death of a serviceman, for we're never quite good enough to them-not really; we can't be, because what they gave us is beyond our powers to repay. And so, when a serviceman dies, it's a tear in the fabric, a break in the whole, and all we can do is remember.
It is, in a way, an odd thing to honor those who died in defense of our country, in defense of us, in wars far away. The imagination plays a trick. We see these soldiers in our mind as old and wise. We see them as something like the Founding Fathers, grave and gray haired. But most of them were boys when they died, and they gave up two lives -- the one they were living and the one they would have lived. When they died, they gave up their chance to be husbands and fathers and grandfathers. They gave up their chance to be revered old men. They gave up everything for our country, for us. And all we can do is remember.
John Howard Added Nov 12, 2018 - 5:52pm
Jeffery Kelly,
 
Conscription is slavery.  Looting one's neighbors to pay oneself to go fight Nazi's on another continent is looting one's neighbors.  Dropping bombs on cities is mass murder.
 
My "self-righteous little fantasy land" of morality does not have room in it for your self-righteous little end-justifies-the-means fantasy land where anything goes as long as you can wave a flag at it and claim patriotism as your motive. 
 
With the possible exception of the revolutionary war, America has never entered into a war for a good reason.
Jeff Michka Added Nov 12, 2018 - 6:05pm
Somewhat of an aside, but 4 years ago, I remember standing on a buddy's deck and watching the Sun set.  It was New Years Eve, and it crossed my mind how, 100 years ago, this was the last New Years a lot of Europeans would ever see, the continent engulfed in the opening months of WWI, ending 1914 with 100,000s of dead, but the end of 1915 it was millions of dead not making it in the new year 100 years before.  We have been, and have remained "blight'd fools" about war and warfare.  Remember?   Stone, in what I think was an annoyed moment, commented how every Family seems to have soldiers in it in the States.  It's true, and yet, we as a nation and society have never ever grappled with the military as part of our society as a whole.
Morgoth Added Nov 12, 2018 - 6:24pm
@John Howard:
”Conscription is slavery.”
 
It’s the draft.  Conscription is what the Royal Navy used way back in the day.
 
“Looting one's neighbors to pay oneself to go fight Nazi's on another continent is looting one's neighbors.”
 
Well, people gotta pay their share.
 
“Dropping bombs on cities is mass murder.”
 
Yes it is.  Both sides did it.  
 
“My "self-righteous little fantasy land"
 
Yep, you are delusional.  Militaries are a necessary evil.  
 
“of morality”
 
More like pie in the sky stupidity.  Does that help?
 
“does not have room in”
 
Then go have a cup of tea and Valium while the rest of us live in the real world.
 
“it for your self righteous little end-justifies-the-means fantasy land”
 
Sometimes the ends do justify the means.  Not always but sometimes.
 
“where anything goes as long as you can wave a flag at it and claim patriotism as your motive.”
 
You didn’t actually pay attention to what I wrote, did you?  No, you thought this was some flag-waving, apple-pie-eating, “America is awesome!!!!” article on the glories of the military.  Far from it.  Those who know me and read what I write know that I don’t glorify it, I dislike the reality of living in a world where wars are sometimes necessary because the alternative is far worse.  My article was my hesitant way of acknowledging the sacrifices made by those who serve.  That is all.  I read what soldiers write.  I know their horror because they relayed it.  I know there is no glory in war even if it is sometimes necessary.
 
 
“With the possible exception of the revolutionary war, America has never entered into a war for a good reason.”
 
Yeah, leaving Hitler in charge was a great idea.  He definitely would’ve finished murdering all the Jews in Europe (except those lucky enough to escape), looted Europe and continued his decimation of Eastern Europe.
 
Or he could’ve lost to the Soviets, leaving all of Europe in Stalin’s clutches.
Morgoth Added Nov 12, 2018 - 6:25pm
Well said, Jeff M.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 12, 2018 - 11:30pm
What is more terrible than war ? Nothing. And it's a fact that there's always profiteers from war. See the Marshall Plan. Or Cheney's Halliburton in Iraq. But the regular soldier fighting for virtually nothing but these interests is kept in the dark and fed with patriotic scrap to justify his actions.
Flying Junior Added Nov 13, 2018 - 3:17am
The Marshall plan was war profiteering?  How so?

Liberal1 Added Nov 13, 2018 - 9:34am
"Conscription is what the Royal Navy used way back in the day."
 
Conscription is also what Stone-Eater's beloved Swiss call their mandatory draft of every able-bodied man in their country. 
 
It's also funny how Swiss Big Defense (like Oerlikon, Mowag, RUAG, etc.) who make billions from war are okay, but things like the Marshall Plan is "profiteering".  LOL
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:03pm
Good point, Liberal1.  I also enjoy pointing out to the self-righteous Stone-Eater (who I happen to like) that many of the issues we have today stem from European interference and wars from the past.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:04pm
The Marshall plan was war profiteering?  How so?
 
Secondly, the future of US trade was dependent on a productive and prosperous Europe. 
 
https://alphahistory.com/coldwar/marshall-plan/
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:04pm
@Stone-Eater:
”What is more terrible than war ? Nothing.”
 
You are wrong.  Europe left under Hitler’s heel is a far more terrible fate to contemplate.  Same with the possibility of Hitler losing to Stalin and the whole of Europe left to Stalin’s tender mercies.
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:08pm
@Stone-Eater:
”Secondly, the future of US trade was dependent on a productive and prosperous Europe.“
 
Yep.  Nothing wrong with that.  It was naturally very beneficial to Europe to get back on it’s feet.  Of course I guess a better option would’ve been to let Europe starve to death after the complete collapse of its economy.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:08pm
L1
 
You, as the biggest war exporter on the planet, want to tell me what we're doing wrong ? Tell you what:
 
Your gangsta regime in the US and our gangsta bankers are interconnected. True. But we don't bomb. We're too small to think about world rule. You do. And you do it by force, not by conviction.
 
Which other country on the planet says endlessly "We are first" ? No other than you.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:13pm
Jeff
 
I simply wondered WHY the US is so proud of an army which has nothing to defend WITHIN its borders. If there's no agenda to act OUTSIDE, what is it for ?
 
Nobody threatens the US. The US has the most weapons on the planet and is geographically located where any invasion is NOT possible. So why does the rest of the world think the US is a threat ?
 
Because of that. And I haven't read or seen an argument that can reason WHY the US has such a massive wepons buildup if not for external adventures...
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:16pm
@Stone-Eater:
”You, as the biggest war exporter on the planet, want to tell me what we're doing wrong ? Tell you what:”
 
Yet the Swiss make weapons and sell them.  I suppose it is more efficient to sell the weapons that soldiers use to kill each other.  That’s actually smart, keep your hands clean.
 
“Your gangsta regime in the US and our gangsta bankers are interconnected. True. But we don't bomb.”
 
You just make the bombs and the bullets.  Good for you, Stone.  How does that feel?  
 
 
“We're too small to think about world rule. You do. And you do it by force, not by conviction.”
 
LOL
Sure, Stone.  The US conquered the whole world.
When did that happen, BTW?  When do I get my commemorative coin?  Or are we still trying, is this a work in progress?
 
“Which other country on the planet says endlessly "We are first" ? No other than you.”
 
Oh, please.
 
Stone, I enjoy a good “Down with the USA!!!!”  It always seems to come from self-righteous know-it-alls who don’t live here and don’t know what the fuck they are talking about.
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:19pm
@Stone-Eater:
”Because of that. And I haven't read or seen an argument that can reason WHY the US has such a massive wepons buildup if not for external adventures...”
 
Why don’t you ask the Russians?  Or the Chinese?  North Koreans?
 
They also have massive militaries and spend a great deal of their budget on said militaries.
 
Do you think the US is the only one, Stone?
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:35pm
JK
 
YAAWN.
 
Why don’t you ask the Russians?  Or the Chinese?  North Koreans?
 
MSM ? Oh, how dangerous these countries are to the small USA.
 
Allow me to laugh :-)
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:01pm
I am laughing at you, Stone.  I find your hatred of the US quaint, a relic of a different time.
 
But you didn’t answer my question.  I think China has the largest military on the planet and spends a greater percentage of it GNP on its military.  Are you saying they do that to protect themselves from the big, bad USA?
 
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:08pm
Here ya go, Stone:
Exporter 2013–17 2008–12 2013–17a 1st 2nd 3rd
1 United States 34 30 25 Saudi Arabia (18) UAE (7.4) Australia (6.7)
2 Russia 22 26 -7.1 India (35)
China (12)
Viet Nam (10)
3 France 6.7 5.8 27 Egypt(25)
China (8.6)
India (8.5)
4 Germany 5.8 7.4 -14 South Korea (14)
Greece (11)
Israel (8.7)
5 China 5.7 4.6 38 Pakistan (35)
Bangladesh (19)
Algeria (10)
6 United Kingdom 4.8 3.8 37 Saudi Arabia (49)
Oman (14)
Indonesia (9.9)
7 Spain 2.9 2.9 12 Australia (34)
Turkey (14)
Saudi Arabia (8.3)
8 Israel 2.9 2.1 55 India (49)
Azerbaijan (13)
Viet Nam (6.3)
9 Italy 2.5 2.4 13 UAE (12)
Turkey (10)
Algeria (9.9)
10 Netherlands 2.1 2.1 14 Jordan (15)
Indonesia (15)
USA (11)
11 Ukraine 1.7 2.5 -26 Russia (23)
China (20)
Thailand (12)
12 South Korea 1.2 0.8 65 Indonesia (26)
Iraq (24)
Philippines (11)
13 Switzerland 0.9 1.1 -11 Saudi Arabia (20)
China (17)
USA (11)
14 Sweden 0.9 2.0 -53 UAE (17)
Thailand (16)
Saudi Arabia (13)
15 Turkey 0.8 0.4 145 Turkmenistan (31)
UAE (24)
Saudi Arabia (16)
16 Canada 0.8 1.0 -18 Saudi Arabia (19)
India (11)
USA (9.4)
17 Norway 0.6 0.6 14 Finland (29)
Oman (23)
USA (18)
18 Belarus 0.4 0.4 12 Viet Nam (26)
China (26)
Sudan (23)
19 Australia 0.3 0.3 15 USA (51)
Indonesia (28)
Oman (8.5)
20 Czech Republic 0.3 0.1 467 Iraq (44)
USA (19)
Viet Nam (11)
21 South Africa 0.2 0.6 -51 UAE (22)
India (8.7)
Nigeria (7.0)
22 UAE 0.2 0.1 320 Egypt (52)
Jordan (26)
Kuwait (6.9)
23 Finland 0.2 0.3 -5.7 Poland (59)
Sweden (11)
Saudi Arabia (5.8)
24 Brazil 0.2 0.3 -20 Afghanistan (32)
Indonesia (31)
Angola (9.3)
25 Portugal 0.2 0.1 74 Romania (90) Belgium (7.1) Uruguay (2.8)
 
Top arms exporters, Russia sits right behind the good ol’ USA in second place.  I know you look at Putin as a beacon of peace to the world yet he is also exporting mass amounts of arms.
 
 
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:12pm
Got that from this:
Top Arms Exporters
 
Granted Russia’s arms exports went down just a tad but they are in second place.
 
Lots of European countries in the top 10, Stone.  Now instead of starting wars you guys just sell the weapons so other people can kill each other.
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:18pm
Hey, look at this Stone.  India actually has the most personnel in their military, over 4 million.  Russia has over 20,000 tanks and both Russia and China have more personnel in their militaries.  Now USA still has the most powerful military:
 
Powerful Militaries
 
 
I guess India, China and Russia need those militaries to protect themselves from the US.
 
:)
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 4:11pm
I guess India, China and Russia need those militaries to protect themselves from the US.
 
You got that right. Europe has to be careful too. We have to be able to defend ourselves against the US. Wasn't like that before, but today, it's sad reality. The US has become a wannabe empire that tries to swallow the whole planet.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 4:13pm
Now instead of starting wars you guys just sell the weapons so other people can kill each other.
 
We're the same assholes as you are in that respect....
John Howard Added Nov 13, 2018 - 4:19pm
Jeffrey Kelly, once we subtract out the snide, ever-so superior tone and the insults from his numerous posts, seems to be saying the following:
 
Involuntary servitude (slavery) isn't what it is if we call it "the draft".
Extortion is OK since, well, people gotta pay their share.
Mass murder is justified because two wrongs make a right.
Disagree with me and you are delusional.
Evil is necessary.
Disagree with me and you don't live in the real world.
Sometimes the ends justify the means.
Without our entry into the second world war, Hitler or Stalin would rule Europe.
 
Obviously, Jeffrey Kelly is a world-class moral philosopher and historian.  Who can doubt it?
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 4:38pm
@Stone-Eater:
”You got that right. Europe has to be careful too. We have to be able to defend ourselves against the US.”
 
Stone, by that comment I have to conclude one of three things:
1)  You are making a joke.  I think I have a really good sense of humor.  I also have a peculiar sense of humor and a rather sick one as well.  I fail to find it funny so maybe you should come up with a better punchline.
2) You are on drugs.  If that’s the case you really need to dial it back, bud.  That crap warps your sense of reality.
3) You are delusional.  That may be due to a physical malady, a mental one or or an extension of #2.  Get yerself to the doctor, my friend.  I’m now worried about you.
James Travil Added Nov 13, 2018 - 5:01pm
Well I served, in the Army during the Gulf War. And like many veterans I look back and see where it wasn't that great. But I don't regret serving and if anyone has a problem with it they can just fuck off and die.
The single thing that most disturbed me regarding Veterans Day is that Joe Biden gave GW Bush an award for his "service" as president during Desert Storm. What a flaming crock of shit that was! Bush is a through and through coward and war criminal who deserves to be rotting in the Hague not getting ridiculous awards he certainly doesn't deserve. 
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 5:14pm
Jeffrey
 
I don't joke. A lot of problems we feel here in Europe are caused by the US.
 
The US has a history of regime changes and startingb wars around the planet since WWII.
 
We Europeans would like that you're our friends. But we - in the meantime - are afraid of you, although we have many things in common,
 
We have learnt our lessons in wars. You never had one on your own soil. That's probably why you feel so secure. 
 
A lot of Europeans say; Get out of here, Americans. If you need another war - this time with Russia or China - leave us out of that. But as an American you're too far away to understand that.
Jeff Michka Added Nov 13, 2018 - 5:18pm
Enter your comment here...
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 5:19pm
BTW: We know here that the US wants to rule the planet. If not, why would they have hundreds of military bases aroune the planet ? Do you think we're blind of stupid ? DEFEND the US against .... what ? 14'000 Mexicans ? Hello LOL
 
I know that you guys think you're the center of the world and that the US is the best thing that "god" ever allowed. But never forget that nothing lasts forever.  
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 5:20pm
...Sorry for the typos. My eyesight is catastrophic by now.
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 5:21pm
@John Howard:
”Jeffrey Kelly,”
 
Yes?
 
“once we subtract out the snide, ever-so superior tone and the insults from his numerous posts,”
 
Hey, I work really hard on being snide, superior and insulting.  The fact you don’t appreciate that bothers me a great deal.
Did I mention I also try sarcastic?  Did you get that?
 
 “Involuntary servitude (slavery) isn't what it is if we call it "the draft".”
 
Technically we don’t have a draft anymore but the Supreme Court upheld them on previous occasions and never called them slavery.  I’ll take their legal opinion over your half-assed, smug, superior definition any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
 
Is that cool with you?  If not then trust me, I honestly don’t give a fuck.
 
 
“Obviously, Jeffrey Kelly is a world-class moral philosopher and historian.  Who can doubt it?”
 
Why, thank you.  That’s awfully nice of you to say.  I’m actually blushing right now.
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 5:28pm
@Stone-Eater:
 
”I don't joke. A lot of problems we feel here in Europe are caused by the US.”
 
Well, I guess it’s easier to believe in an outside boogeyman than deal with your own shit.
 
“The US has a history of regime changes and startingb wars around the planet since WWII.”
 
We aren’t the only ones, Stone.  
 
“We Europeans would like that you're our friends. But we - in the meantime - are afraid of you, although we have many things in common,”
 
Well, you’ve got a big ocean between you and us so I wouldn’t start chugging the Valium on our account.
 
 
“A lot of Europeans say; Get out of here, Americans. If you need another war - this time with Russia or China - leave us out of that. But as an American you're too far away to understand that.”
 
Look, Stone, I realize you have a giant bug up your ass about the US.  But not all of the ills of the world are our fault.  The fact you think the US is a threat to your security is laughable.  No, we aren’t trying to conquer the world, in fact under Donald the Thud it looks like we are pulling away from Europe.  So, take heart, Stone.  Donald the dick is your best friend in this matter.
Katharine Otto Added Nov 13, 2018 - 8:01pm
Jeffrey,
I hesitate to comment, because this thread is so loaded, but I'm an American and I agree with a lot of what Stone is saying.  What other country has military bases in 770 other countries?  What other country has a military base in the US?
 
We are waging war all over the planet, none of which have been constitutionally declared by Congress.  We haven't engaged in a legal war since WWII.  
 
War is extremely profitable, if you are a government contractor, and the stocks do very well on Wall Street.  
 
Back in the day, I worked with veterans, most from Vietnam.  We were involved in the second Iraq war at the time.  To a man, the vets told me they wanted to support the troops, but they thought the war was wrong.  It seems combat veterans are the strongest pacifists, but they don't speak up.  I have to wonder if they were so cowed by their military discipline that they are afraid to challenge the military authority.  If veterans developed the courage to call for the US to cease and desist from its militaristic aggression, they might get more respect.
Morgoth Added Nov 13, 2018 - 8:25pm
Katherine, that’s all true but remember, a lot of those bases are just left over from the Cold War.  Base closing is a big political deal because they benefit the local economy so much.
 
No, Katherine, there’s no “master plan” for world domination.  Stone is a bit of a conspiracy theorist, we’ve done this whole song and dance before.  The reality is that the end of the Cold War brought a weakening of US positions throughout the world.
 
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:08am
JK
 
Stone is a bit of a conspiracy theorist
 
Nope. I sincerely refuse that. 1+1=2. If there would be NO conspiracys, why hold some information secret for 50 years or more ? Because after that new grass has grown on the pond and nobody cares anymore.....
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:12am
https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-has-been-at-war-93-of-the-time-222-out-of-239-years-since-1776/5565946
 
Well......maybe you call that site a "conspiracy" or Russian troll site, but denying is pretty difficult. So now you know why Europe has to be careful.
 
Again: All those US military bases OUTSIDE of the US are designed to defend an invasion INTO the US ? Please :-)
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:16am
Katherine
 
Thanks. Some of what I think may not be true, but there is a feeling ..... and I'm not the only one. The world domination by the US$, the massive weapon production, the fact that the US ignores more and more international gremiums shows us that they simply think: "We're no. 1 anyway, so fuck the rest if they don't go along with us".
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:23am
BTW JK:
 
It would take too long to analyze foreign policy of the US and NATO since 1992. But let me tell you that right here in Europe, we see NATO as a threat. And NATO is a gang of criminals led by the US with EU followers. NATO is not thought to be a defense organization.
 
It is designed to take influence and get hands onto the biggest natural resources which are in the biggest country of the world: Russia. And this has been going on for decades. The nightmare of the US has always been a tight partnership between Germany and Russia. That also played a part in creating NATO and the EU.
 
That's all.
John Howard Added Nov 14, 2018 - 9:50am
@ Jeffery Kelly,
 
Technically we do have a draft.  Selective service is still in place demanding that young men sign up when they are of age. That conscription, aka the draft, aka slavery, aka involuntary servitude is what it is, is not a matter of my opinion. It is a matter of fact and dictionary definitions. That it has been made legal is irrelevant. What the Nazis did to the Jews was all perfectly legal. Deep thinker that you obviously are, have you come to the conclusion that legal = morally good?
 
And yes, anyone can tell by your childish playground bully style of writing that you don't give a fuck. That's OK. Nobody cares about your feelings.
Morgoth Added Nov 14, 2018 - 1:36pm
@Stone-Eater:
”Nope. I sincerely refuse that. 1+1=2. If there would be NO conspiracys, why hold some information secret for 50 years or more ? Because after that new grass has grown on the pond and nobody cares anymore.....”
 
Stone, I followed you for a long time.  You frequently comment on my articles. You are a conspiracy theorist.
 
Do conspiracies occur?  Absolutely.  But for some reason you seem to think that hidden forces conspire for decades or even centuries.  It doesn’t happen that way, Stone.  Human nature mitigates against it.  


 


 
“Well......maybe you call that site a "conspiracy" or Russian troll site, but denying is pretty difficult. So now you know why Europe has to be careful.”
 
I have no idea what that is.  But I would also say that other nation states have been at war for a long time as either direct or indirect participants.  We aren’t the only ones, Stone.  We are just the latest.  Or do I need to remind you of Europe’s own warlike, expansionist history?
 
“Again: All those US military bases OUTSIDE of the US are designed to defend an invasion INTO the US ? Please :-)”
 
Do you know the history of those bases, Stone?  Many of them were occupied at the request of the countries they are in.  The US leases bases for its military, including a rather extensive navy.




 
“The world domination by the US$,”
 
LOL, yeah, we dominate the world.  Everyone does exactly what we tell them....LOL
C’mon, Stone, you are smarter than that.  The US is at loggerheads over other countries, even countries that are part of NATO.  The US and China are engaged in a trade war, there are trade issues with Canada and Mexico....yeah, we dominate the world.
 
LOL
 
 
“the massive weapon production,”
 
That is matched by other countries, Stone.  Do I need to give you the link again?  The US may top that list but your innocent Russians and Chinese are right behind.  Your poor Europeans dominate that list.
 
It’s economics, Stone.  War is good for business.  Arms dealing is a multi-multi-multi-billion dollar industry and everyone is cashing in.  It sucks but it’s true.
 
 
 
“the fact that the US ignores more and more international gremiums shows us that they simply think: "We're no. 1 anyway, so fuck the rest if they don't go along with us".”
 
Under Trump that is starting to be true.
 
 




“BTW JK:
 
It would take too long to analyze foreign policy of the US and NATO since 1992.”
 
Why not before, Stone?  Oh...wait...that means you’ll have to think about the Russians and the Chinese and they are so innocent in everything they do.  Even now those innocent lambs are just trying to protect themselves.
 
“But let me tell you that right here in Europe, we see NATO as a threat.”
 
You do, other Europeans don’t.
 
“And NATO is a gang of criminals led b
Morgoth Added Nov 14, 2018 - 1:36pm
I’m not repeating myself.
Morgoth Added Nov 14, 2018 - 1:57pm
@John Howard:
”Technically we do have a draft.  Selective service is still in place demanding that young men sign up when they are of age. That conscription, aka the draft, aka slavery, aka involuntary servitude is what it is, is not a matter of my opinion.”
 
Except the Supreme Court disagrees with your analysis.  That works for me, I’ll take their opinion over some dude posting at Writer’s Beat.
 
“What the Nazis did to the Jews was all perfectly legal.”
 
Actually no, the Nazis never codified murder.  Even their T-4 Program, a program that had a patina of legality due to a “Hitler Order” on the subject, ran into legal issues.  The Nazi Government never passed laws saying that it was legal to murder Jews.  Those murders were committed outside of the legal process.
 
Now, what was legal was the disenfranchisement of German and Austrian Jews during the 1930’s.  But their actual murder, along with the murder of Polish, Soviet, Hungarian, French, etc. Jews, remained illegal and was simply covered up.  It was a state secret even though people knew something was happening to them.  Even when the news got out it was simply brushed aside.
 
Yer sorta wandering in my area with this stuff, John.  Please feel free to ask questions.
 
“Deep thinker that you obviously are, have you come to the conclusion that legal = morally good?”
 
Of course not.  But I also understand that ideas of morality change and shift with the times.  Two hundred years ago it was perfectly legal and morally acceptable to own slaves in the US.  Ninety years ago it was perfectly legal and morally acceptable to keep and execute hostages as part of a military occupation.  Times change, people change.  The draft is legal right now.  Whether or not it’s morally acceptable is questionable.  But right now that’s not the issue.
 
And yes, anyone can tell by your childish playground bully style of writing that you don't give a fuck.”
 
I don’t.  Life’s not a popularity contest, John.  My article, my rules.  I allow anyone to comment, I allow anyone to have their say but I’ll be fucked if I let you trample over me.  BTW I never delete comments.  Well, I make exceptions now and again but for the most part I let people have their say and use any language they want.  Even if they are critical of me.  Why?  Because it’s fair, John.  That’s all I care about.  So thank you for contributing.
 
“That's OK. Nobody cares about your feelings.”
 
I could give a shit if people care about my feelings or not.
wsucram15 Added Nov 14, 2018 - 2:22pm
SEF..STOP IT.
My family is military as are some of the people on this post. You dont have to like it, but my older brother was forced to serve and my sister was shot at rebelling against that war.
Now..my father enlisted young, but his father was an alcoholic and he had many brothers and sisters, it was expected of him. So he was on a navy ship I believe on DDay.  They had found out his age by then and kept him on a ship in the galley.  But he enlisted becuase it was what he was supposed to do then.
Now my younger brother is career military and he is that way because of my father. Yes, he did things in the middle east that most likely would piss you off, but you know things were done to children and also his men.   He was military and he was doing his job. He was high ranking and had orders. I had many fights with him about his job over the years, but he did what he thought was the right thing.  I will even tell you this it cost him a rank once, doing the right thing.  Its not thought of very well. Orders are orders.
 
Why are you trying to tell anyone, especially one in service of a country..what they have done is wrong?  I dont do that, nor should you.  You dont have to like what the US does, most of the time, I dont..but you dont attack the people for it.  We dont make those calls.  How many times must I tell you this.  Every country has a military.  Come on it is not the service people most of the time.
 
Also the veterans to be honored are dead as well as those still alive, I saw a huge disservice this year to them and while I did not serve it was just distasteful.
 
You need to speak to those in authority...not the people in service.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 2:26pm
Jeffrey
 
You stick to your POV I stick to mine, that's ok.
 
You say: The US was demanded to protect country *X* so the US set up a base there.
 
Now, in the case of Syria, the Russians were demanded by Assad to help out to get those fanatic hordes which are actually a following of Al Qaeda ideologies (Saudi Arabia, your good friends) out of Syria which extended to As-Shahab, Azawad and Boko Haram.
 
Now, the US said NO ! Assad is a gangster ! He did not ask US to protect us but asked the Russians ! Therefore it's not legal ! Gaddafi was a gangster, Saddam was a gangster ! We killed them all because they didn't wanted OUR "protection" ! We are the only ones who are legalized to protect other nations, because the others are all communists...etc etc etc....
 
Come on. That's too cheap LOL
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 2:29pm
BTW: Of course it's economics, what else ? So why pretend that it's about religion or political systems ? People aren't as stupid as THEY think.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 2:37pm
Jeanne
 
was forced to serve and my sister was shot at rebelling against that war.
 
Hey, I'm sorry, you know me. I don't know now to what you refer exactly but I simply hope that the US starts to value civil achievements higher than military adventures in the future. As I said, nothing against you or your family. One is born into an environment, and it's not easy questioning that. I know it from my family. I should have followed my father as CEO in an insurance company and I refused and went to a world trip instead.
 
It took me 20 years until my father understood that a child is not 1:1 like his parents. He never understood how I would prefer a life "out of a suitcase" to a life in a nice proper house with n bedrooms.
John Howard Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:06pm
wsucram15 writes,
 
"You need to speak to those in authority...not the people in service."
 
I strongly disagree with this notion. As a believer in free will, I hold every individual accountable for their actions. I do not grant that "The Authorities made me do it," is a moral get-out-of-jail-free card.
 
Authorities = parasites. Those who serve them deserve what they get, including blame.
Morgoth Added Nov 14, 2018 - 10:05pm
Stone-Eater:
”You stick to your POV I stick to mine, that's ok.”
 
Absolutely.


 
“You say: The US was demanded to protect country *X* so the US set up a base there.”
 
I didn’t say demanded.  Asked or requested is more like it.
 
“Now, in the case of Syria, the Russians were demanded by Assad to help out to get those fanatic hordes which are actually a following of Al Qaeda ideologies (Saudi Arabia, your good friends)”
 
Not my friends, Stone.  
 
“out of Syria which extended to As-Shahab, Azawad and Boko Haram.
 
Now, the US said NO ! Assad is a gangster ! He did not ask US to protect us but asked the Russians ! Therefore it's not legal ! Gaddafi was a gangster, Saddam was a gangster ! We killed them all because they didn't wanted OUR "protection" ! We are the only ones who are legalized to protect other nations, because the others are all communists...etc etc etc....”
 
Stone, give it a rest.  Saddam made his bed when he oozed out of his borders.  Otherwise no one would’ve cared.
 
As for Syria, it isn’t just the US but other European countries, Turkey and others.  There are a lot of vested interests in the region that began over a hundred years ago by...Great Britain and France.  Why?  Because of oil.  Otherwise no one would give a shit, Stone.  That’s the reality of the situation.
 






 


“BTW: Of course it's economics, what else ? So why pretend that it's about religion or political systems ?”
 
I hope you aren’t including me in that, Stone.  I know it’s about oil and the strategic location of the Middle East.  Otherwise no one would care.
 
“People aren't as stupid as THEY think.”
 
Oh, shit...here it comes.
 
I’ll bite, Stone, who is “THEY?”
 
:)

Katharine Otto Added Nov 15, 2018 - 2:44pm
Jeffrey,
I didn't say there is a "master plan" for world dominion, unless you count the UN, World Bank and International Monetary Fund.  The "master plan" has to do with controlling the money, and the most tangible currency, these days, is oil.  All the wars are directly or indirectly devoted to protecting and/or exploiting this "black gold."
 
Of course there are lesser resources desired by the power-freaks, like land, other minerals, and cheap labor.  All governments exist to fund themselves, so a military is a necessary enforcer of government interests.
 
That servicemen have been bullied or conned into killing strangers to further the governments' financial interests is probably not their fault, but it shows how barbaric the human race remains, despite our fancy toys, including military toys.
 
 
Liberal1 Added Nov 15, 2018 - 3:22pm
Katharine Otto, have you ever read, "War Is A Racket", by USMC Major General Smedley Butler?  If not you should give it a read.  He was in the position to really know what he was talking about and I think you'll agree with him.
John Howard Added Nov 15, 2018 - 4:35pm
@Jeffrey Kelly tells us that:
 
"Whether or not it’s morally acceptable is questionable.  But right now that’s not the issue."
 
"Except the Supreme Court disagrees with your analysis.  That works for me, I’ll take their opinion over some dude posting at Writer’s Beat."
 
I get it:  morality is unimportant and if the parasites in the government say slavery is OK, then it is.  So fuck & shit.
 
Got it, Dude.  
Morgoth Added Nov 15, 2018 - 5:04pm
Yep, John, that’s the way it is.  Now, take some time and adjust that tinfoil hat, slam some Valium and make a nice cup of warm tea.  That’ll make it easier for you to live in fantasy land with the elves and orcs while the rest of us live in the real world.
Liberal1 Added Nov 15, 2018 - 6:17pm
#OrcLivesMatter
Morgoth Added Nov 15, 2018 - 8:46pm
LOL
 
Elves of the world...unite!!!! 
John Howard Added Nov 18, 2018 - 9:05am
Objecting to slavery is a sign of tinfoil-hat paranoia.  Got it, Dude.
 
Of course, you yourself were never drafted and didn't even serve in the military at all, but you live in the real world, so make some more of your like really cute, snide jokes, Dude and show us what an awesome intellect you are.  Joke about the draftees that died.  Like, maybe they're slamming Valium with the elves and orcs now, OK?  HaHaHa. LOL.
Morgoth Added Nov 18, 2018 - 11:10am
@John Howard:
”Objecting to slavery is a sign of tinfoil-hat paranoia.  Got it, Dude.”
 
No, “Dude.”  Objecting to slavery is perfectly acceptable, equating the draft as such is.  

 
“Of course, you yourself were never drafted”
 
But I signed up for it like everyone else, John.  And I would’ve gone if drafted because that’s the law.
 
“and didn't even serve in the military at all,”
 
That’s right, John, I didn’t.  BTW if I didn’t tell you this I appreciate your sacrifices for this country.  Thank you.
 
“but you live in the real world,”
 
Yessir I do.
 
“Joke about the draftees that died.”
 
Hey, John, I never, ever joke about soldiers who gave their lives in the service of their country.  Never.
 
 
wsucram15 Added Nov 18, 2018 - 1:34pm
SEF..
forced to serve means the draft, no volunteering.  Protesting a action like vietnam and getting shot at, actually happened.  It has happened since.
When I tell you there is conflict in the US..LISTEN, and stop judging by what you see on tv or in the news. 
wsucram15 Added Nov 18, 2018 - 1:39pm
JohnHoward..
Hello nice to meet you. You missed my point entirely as someone who didnt read the comment as it was intended would.
You address those in power, not the ones in service if you want to complain.  People in service are doing a job and at the level go to jail for not doing so...in fact most of you call them traitors.
Those in power dont listen, so you fight back. The MIC is being built up after being torn down, especially in power.  It is what is is..
 
John Howard Added Nov 18, 2018 - 1:57pm
Jeffrey Kelly writes,
 
"Objecting to slavery is perfectly acceptable,[but] equating [slavery to] the draft as such is [not acceptable]." (My guess at what you intended to write).
 
It would be interesting to hear why you think there is a substantive difference between slavery and the draft. I see none.
 
Also, I did not write that the Nazi's legalized murder. I said "what they did to the Jews", which was plenty of legalized evil, even if it did not include murder.  My point was not to nit-pick the details, but to say that evil does not become good or acceptable by being made legal.
John Howard Added Nov 18, 2018 - 2:02pm
BTW, I did not sacrifice for the country.  I was, like thousands of others, sacrificed.  Big moral difference.  I tend to look dimly upon little moral perverts who promote human sacrifice for the good of the collective. 
Morgoth Added Nov 18, 2018 - 4:55pm
@John Howard:
 
“It would be interesting to hear why you think there is a substantive difference between slavery and the draft. I see none.”
 
Because getting drafted isn’t for life, it is and was the law of land and the Supreme Court ruled that it is legal and not slavery.
 
You are free to disagree with me.  


 
“Also, I did not write that the Nazi's legalized murder.”
 
Good, I’m good you clarified that.  Feel free to ask questions, I know a great deal about Nazi Germany and the Holocaust.  I’ve written some articles on that, if you click on my name and go back to 2017 you’ll see them.
 




 


“BTW, I did not sacrifice for the country.”  
 
OK, I take it back then.
 
“I tend to look dimly upon little moral perverts who promote human sacrifice for the good of the collective.”
 
It’s good that I’m just a regular pervert.

John Howard Added Nov 19, 2018 - 2:08pm
Jeffrey Kelly,
 
OK, I understand your position:  slavery is OK if it's not permanent and it's made legal and we don't call it slavery.  
 
Of course, there is nothing in the definition of slavery that says anything about it being permanent or illegal.  Those are both irrelevant to the substance of the term slavery.
Morgoth Added Nov 20, 2018 - 9:41pm
@John Howard:
”OK, I understand your position:  slavery is OK if it's not permanent and it's made legal and we don't call it slavery.”
 
John, you have a major bug up your ass about this. Maybe you should get help to work through your issues.
 
I get that it upsets you that you had to serve.  That sucks.