DIMMS Call for Florida & Arizona to Count Illegal Immigrant Votes & Ballots Outside the Registered Count

Every day the wave of immigrant travel a little farther through Mexico towards America. In reality Mexico does not choose to send them back by force so they continue coming. It is obvious that someone is paying the vehicles owners to transport them toward America. Those that pay for the caravan have alliterative motives. On is to change the demographics of America in hopes to make the nation's government from one party, through voting by those immigrants, enclaves from other nations pretending to be US citizens.

 

Those in favor of the immigrants keep saying “this is a nation of immigrants!” True enough the Spanish brought to America more illnesses then they took back to Europe, Asia, and Africa. The population when the pilgrims arrive was about half due to the germs brought from Spain. So the pilgrims met less resistance. The first few years they ran the colony as a cooperative with common ownership and community responsibility. Famine ended most of their lives. They reached a little farther into the Bible and discovered that the promise land was divided up into individual land holding by need and then additional land had to be earned. Private property rights governed the pilgrims, or as Thomas Jefferson put it, “pursuit of happiness.” Individuals were not owed happiness by the state.

 

The success of the pilgrim spread through Europe and led to many risking life and limb to venture across the ocean to America with knowing that the colony and then the United States did not own them happiness. They gave them the opportunity to pursue happiness, property earned often by the sweet of their own effort, the knowledge and skill they possessed, and for a few capital from Europe. Thus “this is a nation of immigrants!

 

Dr. Milton Friedman an Nobel recipient and author of many books and articles including 'Free to Choose' says this to an audience, “You had a flood of immigrants, millions of them, coming to this country. What brought them here? It was the hope for a better life for them and their children. And, in the main, they succeeded. It is hard to find any century in history, in which so large a number of people experience so great an improvement in the conditions of their life, in the opportunities open to them, as in the period of the 19th and early 20th century.”

 

The immigrants left Europe with its class structure and regulations to maintain that structure. Franklin as an envoy spent years in England trying to discuss the problems of the colonies and finally left to join the revolution. He realized that the colonist were a lower class and that they were bared from ever changing class to higher ones. They were ruled by regulations to insure the stayed in their classes.

 

What the immigrants found is a nation with economic classes but little if any barriers preventing them from changing class. Thus a nation with significantly less regulations. Friedman mentions how regulations strangle the ability of people to do good things. He observed:

 

I’ve always been amused by a kind of a paradox. Suppose you go around and ask people: ‘The United States before 1914, as you know, had completely free immigration. Anybody could get in a boat and come to these shores and if landed at Ellis Island he was an immigrant. Was that a good thing or a bad thing?'” [Ellis Island ~ 1880 with the growth of local welfare sent those that would end up on welfare back to the native nation.  1914 progressive, modern liberals, and socialist (progression of names) started state and national welfare programs.]

 

You will find that hardly a soul who will say that it was a bad thing. Almost everybody will say it was a good thing. ‘But what about today? Do you think we should have free immigration?’ ‘Oh, no,’ they’ll say, ‘We couldn’t possibly have free immigration today. Why, that would flood us with immigrants from India, and God knows where. We’d be driven down to a bare subsistence level.’

 

What’s the difference? How can people be so inconsistent? Why is it that free immigration was a good thing before 1914 and free immigration is a bad thing today? Well, there is a sense in which that answer is right. There’s a sense in which free immigration, in the same sense as we had it before 1914 is not possible today. Why not?

 

Because it is one thing to have free immigration to jobs. It is another thing to have free immigration to welfare. And you cannot have both. If you have a welfare state, if you have a state in which every resident is promises a certain minimal level of income, or a minimum level of subsistence, regardless of whether he works or not, produces it or not. Then it really is an impossible thing.

 

Dr. Friedman goes on to explain: If you have free immigration, in the way we had it before 1914, everybody benefited. The people who were here benefited. The people who came benefited. Because nobody would come unless he, or his family, thought he would do better here than he would elsewhere.

And, the new immigrants provided additional resources, provided additional possibilities for the people already here. So everybody can mutually benefit.

 

But on the other hand, if you come under circumstances where each person is entitled to a pro-rata share of the pot, to take an extreme example, or even to a low level of the pie, than the effect of that

situation is that free immigration, would mean a reduction of everybody to the same, uniform level. Of course, I’m exaggerating, it wouldn’t go quite that far, but it would go in that direction. And it is that perception, that leads people to adopt what at first seems like inconsistent values.

 

Look, for example, at the obvious, immediate, practical example of illegal Mexican immigration. Now, that Mexican [Americas] immigration, over the border, is a good thing. It’s a good thing for the

illegal immigrants. It’s a good thing for the United States. It’s a good thing for the citizens of the country. But, it’s only good so long as its illegal.”

Ref: http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2008/02/what-milton-friedman-really-said-about-immigration

 

The immigrants like the Irish when they left, they left never expecting to return and most did not. They were fully committed and committed to survive thus committed to blend into the American society, the melting pot. They became Americans because they had no where to return to.

 

This is not the case for the present wave of immigrants since after WWII. Many come here for economic opportunity and like the British colonist and other European colonist they never broke the ties or citizenship with their native country. (WB participants have complained about these practices of the colonizing nations.) American by necessity was not the last and only option. America was not a melting pot so they created enclaves of the home nation, as the colonialist had done where the laws of the native country and religion ruled despite conflicting with the nations laws and culture. The problem of the Muslim wave into Europe is the fact that they have brought the culture and religious laws and class distinctions with them and they differ from there their feet reside. They do not keep those differences only within the enclave, nor did the colonist. Such enclave can be consider hostile to the nation and the president is authorized by the Constitution to defend the nation from external and internal threats.

 

The Constitution give Congress the exclusive power to regulate immigration and the president specific powers to act in the interest of the safety and security of the nation. Thus a President and in the past presidents have acted to limit or prevent immigrates from entering the nation in defense of the nation. Congress has the power to present a bill and if necessary to over-ride a VETO that directs the President to do it's bidding.

 

Voting is reserved for citizens and the 14th amendment and subsequent case law that applies to immigrant without permission by Congress to be in America as permanent resistances is clear. They do not have the right to vote. Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94 (1884) John Elk, a Winnebago Indian born a member of one of the Indian tribes, being within the territorial limits of the United States, were not, strictly speaking, foreign states"; but "they were alien nations, distinct political communities", with whom the United States dealt with through treaties and acts of Congress. The members of those tribes owed immediate allegiance to their several tribes, and were not part of the people of the United States.

 

Thus, born a member of an Indian tribe, even on American soil, Elk could not meet the allegiance test of the jurisdictional phrase because he “owed immediate allegiance to” his tribe, a vassal or quasi-nation, and not to the United States. The Court held Elk was not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States at birth. “The evident meaning of these last words is, not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance.”  Ref: Wikipedia [Elk wanted to vote started the case]

 

Thus the arguments in Florida and Arizona to count votes when illegal immigrant votes have been mixed by accident or on purpose with citizen ballot is creating fraud. In all case the public officials have committed criminal act on purpose or by incompetency. I believe election laws do not separate the two.  As an election judge the five assigned to a polling place are expected together to not make any errors.  And to report errors that occurred so the clerk can correct them since we can not.  

Comments

Jeff Michka Added Nov 12, 2018 - 5:30pm
Idiot Sutrino wants you to fall into line and lockstep march to "imiigrants voting" as the reason behind the election nonsense (again) in Florida, but like Orange Scumbucket, talks about illegals voting but can't prove any of it.  Nobody saw all the buses bringing in those illegals to vote.  Maybe they were in New Jersey to get out in the streets with fellow migrant Muslims to cheer 9/11.  You people are just wowsers without a cause.
Ken Added Nov 12, 2018 - 5:46pm
alliterative motives?  Do we expect everyone in the caravan to speak in alliteration?
 
We are not a nation of immigrants.  We are a nation of citizens.  Immigrants are not members of the country unless they become naturalized citizens.
 
As citizens we have the right to determine who immigrates to our country and who doesn't.  Will they be a drag on our society/economy or will they be a benefit?  Merit based immigration - that isn't something racial, it is simply a fact.
 
 
Bill H. Added Nov 12, 2018 - 5:51pm
So far, no real evidence that "illegals" voted in any state. Lot's of BS and whining in the ERW media, along with Russian social media accounts passing along false information that the Trumpies will believe because Trump the mega-liar said it's true.
Many of the late ballots were mail-ins from US servicemen abroad, and ironically Trump (on Veteran's Day) says that they shouldn't count.
Ken Added Nov 12, 2018 - 6:01pm
Bill, again you lie. 
 
There is evidence of fraudulent pollsters pushing through illegals to vote in the James O'Keefe video.
 
Lawyers for both Gillum and Nelson have filed a court case to count specific illegal votes.  Maybe if voter ID was actually required in more places there would be more "proof"
 
To deny it is happening is just false reality.  The entire reason democrats are going against the entire majority of all demographics that want voter ID is because they need their "useful idiots" such as yourself to continue to have plausible deniability and be able to say blatant lies with a straight face.
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 12, 2018 - 7:42pm
Ken, the article was about citizens that started out as immigrants. 
 
Bill, in Florida just two counties couldn't follow the rules and these same two counties failed to adhere to the law in past election.  The officials have been cited for breaking the law.  So past experience is sufficient indicator.
 
Ken, Bill and Jeff want to be on the side of good.  Wanting doesn't make to true.  Seeing reality is the starting point and both Bill and Jeff are not there yet.
goldminor Added Nov 12, 2018 - 8:02pm
A little known election rule in Florida is 13 strikes and you-uuurre out, sarc.
 
Well Snipes just hit her 13th strike. Let's see how that works out. But regarding immigration into the US there has to be some upper level limit as to how many are to be allowed in every year. Although this post raises interesting points one main pint is left out, imo.
 
That is since the early 1900s the population of this planet has now grown to 8 billion souls from around 1.8 billion back in the day. Are we trying to compete with India and China for population nujmbers? I hope not.
Troll Hunter Added Nov 12, 2018 - 9:02pm
Thomas thinks republican-led states are some how "allowing" about 23,000,000 "illegals" to vote in their republican-led states.
I mean, seriously?  That's what Tom thinks?
Goddamn..
Jim Stoner Added Nov 12, 2018 - 9:10pm
I am in favor of all states being required to issue proper voter ID's--which should be issued at no direct cost to the individuals themselves-- and being required to have proper, standardized methods of counting votes for all Federal elections.  I also strongly urge  measures to reduce the impact of dark money and phony 501c3 organizations which disguise their political intent.  The current procedure is riddled with this form of legalized corruption. 
I am opposed to any non-citizens voting.  Florida electoral tabulation methods are disgraceful, but we must allow them to complete their process of counting all legitimate votes. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 12, 2018 - 9:13pm
I mentioned for other question that researchers have determined that stress effects birth rate in animals.   And humans are animals.  Japan, Europe, and America birth rates of citizens have decreased and I believe that as the nations government created more regulations the stress created reduces the birth rate.    Those that are coming from third world nations are under less stress when they move to western nations and especially when the nations redistributes wealth to them.  So their birth rate increases.   Given sufficient time as the immigrants become members of the melting pot their expectations will match that of citizens and they too will have similar birth rates.  This does effect immigration and illegal immigration.   Immigration has always occurred and given a few generation the immigrant are for the most part citizens of that nation.  The major area of difference is the religion they follow.  For Islamic nations the non-muslim is a second class citizen and not actually allowed to become a citizen.   A hundred mile look from space at the subject.
 
Stress effects the population so when humans were hunters and gathers there was a steady state population.  It increased when farming, boats, and domesticated animals came about.   Nothing much happened to the maximum population  for hundreds of years.  Craftsmen built individual machines because the capacity of wood based machines didn't allow higher precision.   The industrial revolution caused the next major growth in population in those nations that joined the revolution.  Precision metal machines multiplied the productivity by orders of magnitude since the precision machine tools made other machines.  The population growth that we now see is the result of the orders of magnitude growth in productivity where it occurred. 
 
Wealth grew and due to the shortage of labor the wage of people also increased.   What is attracting illegal immigrant is the difference in productivity.
 
Troll Hunter, back your words with facts.   So far Florida's two counties are being question and the DIMMS are in charge and the gain in votes is for the DIMMS candidate.   Put your facts forward.  We are waiting breathlessly.
Troll Hunter Added Nov 12, 2018 - 9:25pm
Tom:
Yes, all the votes in Florida are being counted.
Why don't you want vote of United States of America citizens to be counted?
Are you a terrorist?
Jim Stoner Added Nov 12, 2018 - 9:26pm
I would suggest another explanatory theory for changes in birthrates, driven by three factors:  1) the change from primarily agricultural economies, often at subsistence level, to industrial ones reduced the number of children workers needed to keep up families' livelihoods--in fact, in modern societies more children means more expenses and more difficult cash flow; 2) family planning methods have allowed families to have the number of children they want, instead of leaving it to biological accident; and 3) the reduction in infant mortality means less live births are needed to fill families' desired size. 
Ken Added Nov 12, 2018 - 9:46pm
Interesting how no one is reporting about the 5 "emergency election centers" that were set up in heavily democrat areas in AZ that everyone was allowed to flow through, without checking any verification - they wouldn't even ask what the emergency was claiming "HIPPAA" protection for the voters.  There is a good chance those were the entire difference in the AZ elections.
 
Not 1 was set up in a predominantly republican area.  Hmmm...
 
Maybe it isn't all illegal voters, but it is institutional fraud run by leaders of the democrat party, just like Florida and Georgia
Ken Added Nov 12, 2018 - 9:49pm
and being required to have proper, standardized methods of counting votes for all Federal elections
 
The can't do that.  constitutionally,the states have the right to manage and run their own elections however they see fit.  The feds have no say in how a state does it.  So the only way you have standardized voting is if all the states get together and agree to do it identically
Ken Added Nov 12, 2018 - 9:50pm
Why don't you want vote of United States of America citizens to be counted?
 
As usual, you ask the wrong question to deflect.  The more important question Troll is why do want to count votes that have no verified chain of custody and therefore no record as to whether they were legitimate votes?
Jeff Michka Added Nov 12, 2018 - 9:52pm
No, Troll Hunter, they aren't terrorists (yet), but they just don't love America.  Remember, the re4ason to eliminate abortion and birth control is to stop "those people" from having sex.  Good Trumpists don't have sex, so why should "the Other" enjoy.  Of course, hysteria needs to be stoked, and the number 1 reason is to set the stage for "outlawing elections," as the Orange S**tbag has alluded to.  Gee, those 2020, elections will just have to be canceled and Orange Turd will have to remain "president by acclaim".  And of course WB rightists are more talk talking about all those "illegal voters" of which there's absolutely no evidence to support, and you've even got leamos like Kenny, not worth a farthing or a penny, raving about 14,000 people in "the caravan."  The caravan gets bigger and bigger.  by the time it gets to the border, there will be several million people in it, by numbers crunched by Kenny the worthless.
Jim Stoner Added Nov 12, 2018 - 10:20pm
Ken,  That's not quite true.  Both the 17th and 24th amendments prescribe aspects of how the states must run elections for Federal offices (among other things, preventing any kind of tax for voting, which would apply if states charged more than nominal amounts for voter ID). 
Further, the Voting Rights Act (you would probably say it was unconstitutional) gave Federal justices scope to review methods of implementing elections in certain states where voter suppression was rampant.  If the current methods of suppression and improper counting continue, Congress would be well-justified in enacting standards to apply to those elections. 
 
I would say it is more important that citizens' votes be counted than that there always be a proven chain of custody of the ballots.  If a citizen follows the rules of the election in submitting one's ballot, it must be counted, regardless of the incompetents who may be handling them later.   If there are cases where the evidence indicates the same person has more than one ballot attributed to their name, then some evidentiary rules might be appropriate in determining the valid one, as opposed to simply throwing both out.  
goldminor Added Nov 12, 2018 - 10:33pm
Good stuff, J Stoner.
Bill H. Added Nov 12, 2018 - 10:56pm
All little Kenny cares about is politics, and that his boys win.
It's all about every damn thing leaning to the "Right" that makes him happy.
One can only wonder if he has a real life?
Ken Added Nov 12, 2018 - 11:05pm
Further, the Voting Rights Act (you would probably say it was unconstitutional)
 
Not only is much of it unconstitutional, but that was evidenced by the fact that the Supreme court threw out specific chunks of it a couple of years ago that came up in a case.
 
The 17th amendment is one of the biggest abominations ever passed, breaking the senate from its original intention. 
 
That said, what you are talking about and what I am talking about are different.  That states how states will elect senators, but what I am talking about is how states run elections.
 
It is entirely up to the states how they set up ballots, how they count ballots, how they register ballots, how they certify ballots, etc. 
 
The federal government cannot specify a "specific" type of ballot for every state, how it will be counted, what will be considered, what won't, early voting laws, absentee voting laws, etc.
 
That is why I am saying it will not be consistent from state to state.  They don't even regulate who shall be on the ballot or in what order.  in CA for example, the silly voters said "top 2 votegetters in primaries are on the general election ballot, regardless of party. 
 
Thanks to silly voters passing that (and not understanding the consequences), it is almost impossible for a republican to win a statewide race in anything.  In fact, more often than not it is 2 democrats in the final general ballot due to how it works.
 
Those are the kinds of things I was referring to that the federal government has no say over and why there won't be consistent ballots or laws from state to state on the execution of the election.
Jim Stoner Added Nov 12, 2018 - 11:21pm
First, I love the CA "jungle primary" approach as an example of states doing something constructive and innovative.  You, as a constitutionalist (at least, I would allege you think you are) should recognize that political parties were not part of the original design, and they should not be privileged in general elections.  
Second, states should not be allowed to run their elections any way they want if they are systematically disenfranchising citizens whose right to vote is guaranteed by the constitution. 
I am in favor of making voting as easy as possible--making Election Day a national holiday, or moving it to a Saturday would both be good ideas--buttressed by unique ID's with up-to-date security technology that include citizenship status and the location where they can vote (but not requiring residential street addresses, or moving their precinct out of town). 
 I'm not in favor of making voting mandatory (which many countries do), because people should vote because they want to do so and know what they are doing, rather than merely avoiding a fine. 
 
Finally, the Roberts court ended the Voting Rights Act provisions, not because the law was unconstitutional, but because their opinion was that circumstances had changed and the enforcement provisions were no longer needed.  I suppose that was within their rights and responsibility to make that judgment, incorrect though it was. 
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:26am
Wow !!!
 
14000 immigrants to a country of 320 million......immigrants.
 
LOL
 
Cognitive dissonance 2.0. Updated.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:28am
BTW: Wehret den Anfängen !
 
Hm. ..who said that again ? ;)
Ken Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:00am
First, I love the CA "jungle primary" approach as an example of states doing something constructive and innovative
 
 
what a shock...what is constructive and innovative about disenfranchising many because of a supermajority - much of which was created unconstitutionally by birthright citizenship
 
You, as a constitutionalist (at least, I would allege you think you are) should recognize that political parties were not part of the original design,
 
parties were unavoidable as political alliances would always be formed, the warning - if you read washington's farewell address was against a two party system arising, as we have now.  Even worse than that is a state like CA who has taken it to the extreme and is a one party system.  That is  a totalitarian mindset the founders warned against over and over.
 
Second, states should not be allowed to run their elections any way they want if they are systematically disenfranchising citizens whose right to vote is guaranteed by the constitution. 
 
There is little constitutionally to prevent this, although I agree with the concept.  There are actually several spots on my CA ballot I leave blank,I will not vote for radical KEvin DeLeon or Dianne Feinstein.
 
I am in favor of making voting as easy as possible--making Election Day a national holiday, or moving it to a Saturday would both be good ideas--buttressed by unique ID's with up-to-date security technology that include citizenship status and the location where they can vote (but not requiring residential street addresses, or moving their precinct out of town). 
 
This is something we can agree upon.  As long as voter ID is required, make it as easy to vote as possible - I am not a fan of mail in ballots, however, because that is unverifiable.
 
 I'm not in favor of making voting mandatory
 
Nor am I.  There are many that pay no attention and don't care.  I would prefer that those that actually do care vote, those that don't can do whatever they want
 
Finally, the Roberts court ended the Voting Rights Act provisions, not because the law was unconstitutional, but because their opinion was that circumstances had changed and the enforcement provisions were no longer needed
 
Actually, it was a bit of both, but I believe it was unconstitutional to burden those states in the way that they did.  There is nothing constitutionally that allows for that
Ken Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:09am
 14000 immigrants to a country of 320 million......immigrants.
 
ever heard of precedent SE?  2 more caravans forming.  Next could be 100k, one after that 1 million...where does it end?
 
Do you not understand that a sovereign country has the right to allow in who they want?  There is NO RIGHT to invade a foreign country. Whether it is 1 person or 1 million people.
 
Your opinion here is IRRELEVANT.  you don't live in America, you don't have to deal with the constant issues this causes.  This is a CRISIS and an INVASION.
 
gee, what are 14,000 people?  how about the fact that 1/3 of mexicans in America are here ILLEGALLY?
 
We have AT LEAST 5x the ENTIRE population of switzerland illegally in our borders.
 
It is so easy for you to sit on high and be judgemental, but it NEVER stops.  Each group we choose to all in sets a precedent for the next.
 
Your attitude about it is disgusting.  Yea, No way want America to be the policeman of theh world, but hey,they must accept EVERY person who wants to come in.  even if well over 3/4 of them don't even have a high school education.  Screw America, eh?  We are so rich and awesome, we can take everyone in the world and shame on us that we don't take 12,000 here, 5 million there, right?
goldminor Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:21am
Ken ...Stone is overlooking, for some reason, the 2,000 illegals being caught every day of the week. That amounts to 730,000 illegals per year.
Stoner ...you also overlook the new estimated number of around 20+ million illegals now presumed to be in the US. For years that number was stated as only 10 or 11 million illegals which was a big media lie perpetrated on the American people.
Ken Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:24am
gm, the 20 million number is a decade old, it is over 40 million now
Troll Hunter Added Nov 13, 2018 - 5:20am
I heard it's 66,000,000!  
Speaking of, if we pulled a Reagan and amnestied all these hardworking, nice family folks, America would overnight have tens of millions of new taxpayers with which to help make America great again.
FacePalm Added Nov 13, 2018 - 7:03am
Ken-
IIRC, there was a recent MIT/Yale study which showed the illegal immigrant population to be at LEAST 22million, but possibly as high as 30 million.
 
But i thought of a solution to Florida vote counting problem.
Disallow every vote from both Palm Beach county and Coward county, for failing to follow long-established State law.  Maybe next time, they'll get their shit together.
 
Not my call, though.
 
I DO recall D'OhBama deliberately encouraging illegals to vote in 2016 - and i seriously doubt that the Project Veritas video which caught poll workers - even the poll JUDGE - encouraging illegals to vote was an isolated instance.  i believe it was PANDEMIC, because this is how democrats have "voted" for decades.  Even though i loved JFK, the "joke" slogan of "Vote early - vote often" was quite literally true then and remains so to this very day.
 
i sincerely hope that an intensive investigation into whether or not illegals voted - especially in California - and if they're found to HAVE done so, to throw those votes out and deport everyone who voted illegally.
 
Of course, a court would need to hear arguments over the question of whether any State can be compelled to turn over it's records to the federal gov't in order to ensure honesty in elections, but as this is a basic premise of America - one vote per American Citizen - there really shouldn't be a problem with it.
 
But all voting "irregularities" need to be investigated fully, and prosecutions ensue, in order to strongly discourage any kind of voter fraud in the future.  This would mean not only checking for illegals, but also duplicate voters(who vote more than once), those voting by proxy for dead people, those voting in the wrong district, AND, probably MOST importantly, the voting machines themselves, whether or not ANY were hacked and votes changed.
 
To finish up, all the COUNTING of votes needs to be deeply scrutinized, as well - for as Stalin said, "Those who vote decide NOTHING.  Those who COUNT the votes decide EVERYthing."
 
My preference would be to go to STRICTLY paper ballots in every state, and that those who count the votes do so in a room not only under supervision, but also with surveillance cameras uploading video streams live to online sites set up to handle massive traffic on election days. who are required by law to retain the video records for a minimum of six months, and if those charged with doing so do NOT, to apply criminal and civil penalties for failure to maintain those records.
 
As long as the software for such video records is not turned over to the friends of the D'OhBama's, but a REPUTABLE firm, things should work out fine.
Dino Manalis Added Nov 13, 2018 - 8:41am
 Immigration is welcome, but it should be legal, that's why the administration has to incentivize and expand legal immigration of skilled and unskilled workers and family members.  Such action would be a continuation of pro-growth policies in America!
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 9:00am
Goldie (Hawn was a nice one ;-)
 
Stoner ...you also overlook the new estimated number of around 20+ million illegals now presumed to be in the US. 
 
Well.....that ain't their fault when you're not capable to figure a proper control system. No, you rather hassle European tourists on airports with questions like "Are you a terrorist" or "do you have a visa" ? Well, as a European, or Swiss, I doubt that any of those would want to enter the US illegally.
 
Americans don't need a visa to enter Switzerland, but we need one to enter the US. This is called discrimination. And we even accept that. If I were minister here, I'd change that. No visa for both or visa for both. But our asslicking government hasn't the guts to stand up.
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 13, 2018 - 9:05am
Ken, the supreme courts during the 1960's in Alabama acted on apportionment irregularities (Reynold v. Sims). Equal representation is a Federal standard that the states have to abide by which includes only citizens voting. We have the district courts involved in apportionment district boundaries. We could see photo ID reach the Supreme Court.
 
The 15th amendment on race not used as a criteria to vote was not enforced until the 1965 VOTING RIGHTS ACT, thanks Ken.   And Jim S. adds 17th that changed the election of Senators to popular vote and 24th that poll tax.
 
Ken, Troll, is a DIM drown and the goal is to win by any means, thanks Bill H..
 
The question Troll is asking are stupid. So I am waiting for him to put some facts to back up his words. And now as expected Jeff boy has added his obscured comments.
 
"Jungle primary" Jim S., mean no responsibility. California socialist do not want to be responsible to the lesser classes citizens. School boards in large cities have used this method for years. The parent has no one to call and word of mouth is ineffective when the area the person represents it very large.  It becomes to expensive for us lesser citizens to get a message out.
 
Jim S. we continue to get these generalities about disenfranchising citizens. How about specifics. Historically, data, has not backed up any significant disenfranchise and everyone of these problems have solutions that will happy be fixed.
 
The point of voting is that it should not be an after thought. The double precinct have ~2100 registered voters. About a dozen people registered to vote.  One provisional ballot for a soldier that destroyed his mail-in ballot, and ~650 ballots cased.  So about a 1/3 of the citizens took the effort to register also took the effort to vote. I want voters that take an effort. For other elections the level have been half.
 
Goldminor we have the rule of catch and release which then results in people not showing up for court dates. So in reality no one is caught, open door. Good comment FacePalm, 30M illegal immigrants in American not 20M. 
 
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 9:06am
BTW: Do you realize that India has 1.3 billion people on the size of half the US ? So what's the problem ? I'm also not for open borders everywhere UNLESS there's jobs for everybody. Problem is while we're dumbing down education on a large scale everywhere and at the same time require MBA for every lousy job it can't match. You can't complain about all the immigrants on welfare while at the same time push the working society to a level where only a guy with a university degree can find a job.
Ken Added Nov 13, 2018 - 10:46am
if we pulled a Reagan and amnestied all these hardworking, nice family folks, America would overnight have tens of millions of new taxpayers with which to help make America great again.
 
Reagan also noted that was the single worst decision he made as president.
 
We don't have jobs for everyone.  Funny how you leftists complain about how wages haven't gone up for decades and don't note it is the regulatory environment.  You also don't not that it is because you don't understand basic economics and when you keep increasing the supply of labor so much wages must stay depressed because the demand just isn't there for millions more working.  Without bringing the millions of cheap workers in, wages would have been rising.
Bill H. Added Nov 13, 2018 - 11:03am
SEF - You hit the nail on the head concerning education.
Over here, we try to run companies so lean that their product quality goes to hell (ex: communication networks, power grids), send as much of the operation as possible overseas, import cheap labor from overseas, pay the labor below-par wages, degrade or eliminate former employee benefit programs, pay executives extravagant/disproportionate wages, and most ironically of all, automate positions with robots from China while not creating new jobs here in the US to expand and maintain the automation process. Most of the skills required to engineer, build, and maintain automation are no longer offered in most schools. Corporations that are automating are simply buying Chinese robots and bring in H1-B visa workers to maintain them at the direction of the robot manufacturers.
If we are going to create automation jobs here, it would require that US companies take the incentive and investment required to retain displaced workers and invest in creating the training required to engineer, produce, install, and maintain automation equipment here in the states, but the era of investing in employees or education has all but vanished.
Of course, there are still tax incentives that promote offshoring in the U.S. tax code, which provides deductions, offsets, tax credits and incentives to corporations to offshore their profits overseas. Trump's new tax plan will give a permanent preference to foreign income and lead companies to shift more profits to tax havens knowing that they could permanently avoid virtually all taxation on such profits.
Again, the rich profit even more while the average citizen pays.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 11:33am
Ken
 
Funny how you leftists complain about how wages haven't gone up for decades and don't note it is the regulatory environment.
 
I told you many times I'm not a leftist. I'm simply looking at "what is" and I comment to that. I don't need drawers to get intellectual security.
Bill H. Added Nov 13, 2018 - 12:27pm
 
SEF - Ken simply labels anyone who doesn't agree with his propaganda as "You Leftists", as do the other puppets we know out here.
I guess the only thing he has in life is his narrow-minded politics.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:00pm
Bill
 
That "leftist" labeling seems some sort of brain Ebola. But let's not waste time on that....;-)
Ken Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:00pm
I told you many times I'm not a leftist
 
You profess not to be, but the philosophy of your posts denotes otherwise
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:02pm
Bill H., the colleges that have been teaching our educators in grammar and high schools are modern liberals and socialist that donate, shown by statistics ~ 95% of their campaign donations to Democrats. The public unions that control education by union rules and negotiations are filled with the products of these colleges. These unions also shown by statistics ~ 97% for democrats through labor and campaign donations and public advocacy.  That means Bill and SEF, you are addressing your concerns about education to democratic politicians that earn those campaign contribution by implementing the modern liberal and socialist ideology they share with the education system.
 
Complain about the loss of vocational education needs to be aimed and Democratic politicians, modern liberals, and socialist ideology that doesn't put value in vocational education. Ideology that doesn't put value in the end result of such education, higher paid skilled American labor sufficient to fill the jobs available.
 
Minority factions of modern liberals, socialist, and crony capitalist (the swamp) purchase politicians and together these advocate politicians promote as a majority the importation of cheap and often illegal foreign labor, high pay to executive public and private, off shoring proprietary technology to nations like China and India where they then purchase high value product at low cost, etc.. They are vassals of the swamp.
 
Your correct Bill H. <<Again, the rich profit even more while the average citizen pays.>> And politicians get their cut as facilitators, both parties.
 
What they can not ship overseas to get higher profits they use illegal immigrants that do not have the promise of welfare and can face deportation.  Levers to get the wages down.   
 
The reason they want illegals to vote to create one party rule, however; the DIMMS need to keep them under the thumb of deportation, use them.   That is why when Obama had the trifecta his first two years he ignored the promises to legalizes illegals.    There is no political advantage to remove the threat of deportation.    
 
Bill H. and Ken do I got it correct?
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:18pm
Ken
 
I have an opinion based on what I see and experience, not on what I might be told or what I read. And that results in having a view that's neither left, right, above or under. It's called common sense. Politics is sand in the eyes.
JP Added Nov 13, 2018 - 1:47pm
Why is it when Repukes are winning all is well and when Dems counter it's outside the rules set by those in control? I agree with Stone-Eater to some extent.  However, look up epistemology.  
TexasLynn Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:00pm
Thomas S >> The question Troll is asking are stupid.
 
Troll H is a troll.  Asking stupid questions and getting people to waste time on them is what trolls do.  That and personal attacks are the craft and trade of guys like this.  None of his questions or comments are serious... just trolling.
 
My advise is to give the trolls (like Michka and TH) as much leeway and benefit of the doubt as you can.  Often their screeching just proves your point.  It's best to ignore them... and if it gets too bad (or abusive) delete them.
 
Better that, than to have your thread polluted with little troll turds all over the place.
Jim Stoner Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:07pm
Two things:  I am with Stone-Eater and deny that I am a leftist.  This spectrum is reductionist, as has been proven many times by political research.  To measure someone's ideology, at least three dimensions are needed (I would say they are the economic one, the social one, and the foreign policy one).  You tell me what you think a rightist or a leftist is across all three dimensions, a conservative or a liberal; I guarantee you that I do not fit neatly into your categories, and I doubt you do, either.  
I will tell you three things that I will own up to:  I am a radical (I want to make some changes from their very roots), a secular progressive (which I can define as placing primary emphasis on the progress of human civilization), and an idealist (not Kantian, more Nietzschean--I believe in the great destiny of our species and that we can make it happen, by ourselves, if we develop more wisdom).  
 
Second thing:  I think Ken was onto something when he said "We don't have jobs for everyone."  This is the great truth that politicians of all stripes will not tell us.  It's fine to say, "jobs, jobs, jobs" or even "good jobs", but we should all realize that this is an uphill battle, the current low unemployment/wages rising/labor shortage notwithstanding.  This "Trump boom", if you will, is extremely temporary.
The reason is not politics, or immigration, really  It's the reality of a global labor market, with outsourcing and technology eliminating jobs.  These facts will continue, and the question is what the public policy should be to deal with the real issues.  I do have some ideas on this that I will propose here shortly. 
 
TexasLynn Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:22pm
Thomas,
Good post.  Your analysis of why what worked in the last century won't work now is very insightful.  It all comes down to the environment being changed (mostly by the left).
 
Immigration is a mess because the powers that be (GOP and Democrats) both want large numbers of low skilled immigrants in this nation.  It doesn't matter to them if these immigrants are legal or illegal.
 
The left wants them ...
1) so as to change the demographics of the nation to be more poor, uneducated, and dependent
2) so as to vote Democratic.  Illegal up front and eventually legalized (via amnesty)
 
The right wants them ...
1) For cheap labor
 
A lot of things need to happen for immigration to work properly again.
 
Control: By definition, a nation must control its borders so that it chooses who visits and immigrates.  Once controlled the nation must decide the criteria for who we want to immigrate and in what numbers.  That control has not been in place in decades.
 
Welfare: As you state in your article, before, the purpose of many immigrants was for people to escape the conditions they were in for a better life... but that better life required work, since no one was going to take care of you.  NOW many people come here with the knowledge that if they get in... it's just a gravy train.  And they're right.  THAT needs to change and those who would come here for that purpose need to know it.
 
Assimilation: Those who came in the past had a desire to be American and to integrate into our system and values.  Now we get a lot of people who despise our system and come here anyway with no intent to integrate.  These people need to be weeded out in the process.
 
Voting: As stated above, votes is one of two main goals of the left.  Yes, they get quite a few illegal votes (and they protect those votes by opposing voter ID and non-prosecution) ... but the real gold mine is the eventual amnesty they see in the future.
 
All that said... none of these problems are going to be fixed anytime soon... if ever.  There is too much money and power vested in the status quo.
Bill H. Added Nov 13, 2018 - 2:50pm
 
T.S.
Educate yourself on which party continuously cuts and blocks funding for higher education. Educate yourself on which party gives in to the corporations who want the make the H1-B visa program as easy as possible. Educate yourself on which party actually provides incentives for offshoring jobs. Educate yourself on which party gives corporations the loopholes for more offshore tax dodging. Then get back to me.
We've been battling for the return of "shop classes", more technical schools, and help from the businesses who would hire these people for years, only to constantly get the funds required, or the needed pressure on businesses denied by.....you guessed it! The Republicans.
It's always only about the Corporate bottom line, and not at all about what is best for a good balance between business's needs and the citizen's needs, which in the long run would really make America great.
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 13, 2018 - 3:36pm
Bill H. I never start judging something from cost.  I have wasted months of effort with no value added to the company because the manager directed me to make junk, but he didn't know it and wouldn't listen to the questioning of lesser employees of the company.  He didn't take the concern and go back and examine if that lesser employee was correct.   So Bill I look first at what children have learned.  If the Republicans did that before they cut funds then I agree, however; I suspect they didn't actually cut funds for the reason of poor performance.  
 
HI-B visas is a great example of the swamp purchasing favors from congress and if you check I would bet that it is a bipartisan effort and more then just a token one.   I agree Bill that congress serve the interests of the swamp.  Both parties are members of the majority faction that serve the interest of the swamp: health care, trade policies, infrastructure, etc..  Also if you check it is a bipartisan effort because the swamp does not discriminate on which wheel it will grease.
Bill H. Added Nov 13, 2018 - 4:49pm
TS-
Valid response.
What we now need is a new party that will work in the interests of the people. If they play their cards right, both the people and businesses will benefit. Obviously there would need to be some initial sacrifices from both sides, but if both sides agree and work towards the goal, the sacrifices and the time period would be small and short.
It requires a mindset of concern and action. Greed is now the only driving force in this country.
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 13, 2018 - 6:21pm
Bill H., Today's GOP leadership branch is like the Whig party of the first half of the 1800's and the Democrat party of the first half of the 1800's tactic wise is very similar to the present pre-Trump party.  As it is today those two for mutual advantage created a congressional majority faction to enrich themselves.  They dominated the political theater and put up the candidates, blocking others from being heard. 
 
Money and control of the media gives them the power to command elections.  Both parties are given access to the media in order to maintain the balance within the majority faction.    This is as true today as it was in the 1850's.    The barrier to creating a third party is huge and many think impossible.  It was not impossible in the 1850's and it is not impossible today.  Just as it is impossible for a totalitarian government to squash the formation of resistance.  They can only suppress it with effort to keep it below a threshold needed to revolt.  But as the suppression increases the rate of resistance naturally happens. 
 
Pursuit of happiness is a might powerful force.  That is what is driving illegal immigration into this nation and it can not be stopped.  It can be made orderly and it can be controlled with success in the above 80% range, maybe 90% range. (Revolutions require at least 10% of a population revolting and half not turning them into the government.) 
 
Convention of state side steps the federal government but requires a super majority of states to come together to draft amendments and a super super majority to actually amend the Constitution.  State governments are vassals of the federal and maybe already be corrupted.   How can we reverse the corruption?
 
A third party will only succeed if it grows up from the states.  This is the advantage they had in the 1800's that we no longer have since the states have been made vassals.   
 
Fairness and caring are important moral of the democrat minded citizens and these are also part of the morals of conservatives along with loyalty, authority, and sanctity.   Bill H. is a city state like we have in Illinois 'fair' to the ~ 100 counties outside of Chicago that contains ~ 6M people to their ~4M?    Since the bi-camarel legislature is elected by popular vote the city dwellers make all decisions.  
 
Would it be far more 'fair' if the state senators each represented a county, thus 102 state senators?  The house would be controlled by the interest of the city dwellers and the Senate would be controlled by the territory interests of the state: oil, farming, wetland, coal, river transportation, clean water, hunting, etc.  
 
We know that the Supreme court and even district courts are creating laws.  Do you agree?  Equal representation has been an issue that has reached the supreme court in 1965.  Does not exist in Illinois and other states.  The election of state senators to represent the interest of the people in each county would create a balance of interest.  State without a dominant city population distribution would not be harmed.  
 
Immigration interest of the cities with the concentration of crony capitalist is different then interests of rural area with crops to harvest.  So even the topic of illegal immigration of this article is better served by equal representation.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 13, 2018 - 6:27pm
Jim
 
Thanks.
goldminor Added Nov 13, 2018 - 8:56pm
Bill H ...agreed on the need for a valid 3rd party. As it stand now the Rs and Ds have gotten to comfortable over time. Too many within the parties are mostly worried about getting reelected, and not with handling the needs of the nation. Look at the current stated objective of the Ds " a cannon load of subpoenas" aimed at Trump. That is insanity, imo. Look at the stated goal of Maxine Waters who plans to wage was against banks and some other institutions. I find that disgusting.
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 13, 2018 - 10:09pm
Jeff boy, Everyone was civil so I am not going to let you start spitting out hate.   Start your own article.
Bill H. Added Nov 13, 2018 - 10:43pm
TS/goldminor-
I'm glad I am finally getting thru.
What we have now does the people no good.
Trump has got to go, and we need to quickly move back to sanity.
This "Right"/"Left" bullshit is childish, and not only entertains the present
" Leader", but is putting our country exactly where Putin wants us to be.
We were at what I observed as an apex back in the '50s up to the early '60s. Everyone's parents were making a decent wage and could buy a house and new car with no problem. Employers not only cared about their employees, but invested in them as a long-term asset, which obviously paid off in the long run. 
In school, I was able to take classes like wood shop, plastics shop, metal shop, electronics shop, auto shop. and chemistry in Junior High School (what??), and with all that experience, I could go anywhere I wanted to, and I did. With only going as far as 2 years of Junior College, I retired as the Director of Engineering for one of the largest communications networks in the US with over 72 direct reports nationwide. And guess what, I dropped out of High School, never attending 11th and 12th grade.
Well, at least I will die happy, but I am pissed that recent generations are not able to pursue the opportunities that I was able to take advantage of.
Jim Stoner Added Nov 13, 2018 - 11:13pm
The only plausible scenario for a major third party to emerge:
1)  Republicans to shrink (post-Trump) to something less than a full competitor for power in Congress and the Presidency :  e.g. <150 Representatives, <40% popular vote.  They might still retain 40-45 Senate seats at this point. 
2) then the Democrats will fracture over leadership between moderate and progressive wings.   The moderate Democrats might become the odd party out, initially, but would be well positioned to pick up share from either the rump Democratic or Republican side, as well as a good shot at disaffected Independents. 
 
You could call it a CA scenario, because it's a little like that now in California, which is a pretty decent-sized country in itself.   I don't think condition 1) can be achieved before 2025, but maybe I underestimate how quickly the pendulum can swing. 
 
I don't really think that a Libertarian or Green party can emerge as a major party:  the Republicans hold the ultimate loyaty of libertarians (Paul father and son being an example), while the Green party is little more than an irritant to the Democratic party, and the Democratic party is sure to move toward the Greens.  
Bill H. Added Nov 13, 2018 - 11:21pm
 
Good summation, Jim!
goldminor Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:50am
I would say take note of the biggest group of voters, the independents. I registered R in 2016 only so that I could vote in that primary. Otherwise, I am an independent as I see problems with both parties. In 2016 the independents were the largest group of voters. That is why the Democrats and the pundits got the election so wrong, imo. Even with this election the same thing. The Democrats still are not reading the independents correctly.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 6:32am
Bill
 
I can sign  everyting you say, but leave Putin out of the game. Why ? Because the US has a long history of influencing/ousting regimes by any means, so even when Russia WOULD HAVE tried same (which is not proven) just say: Ok we're even ?
 
The problem with the US is that they NEVER admit their own failures and dirty tricks but are quickly ready to point the finger to others.
 
Greetings from Switzerland :-)
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 14, 2018 - 7:58am
Bill H., I haven't found a socialist nation that has an economy that is in direct proportion to the extent of controls they employ to achieve a socialist state.  What I find is an inverse relationship.   Obama believed in direct proportion  while Trump believes in inverse proportion.  So I will take Trump over Obama any day of the week if I only had those two options.  That appears to be the type of choice we will have in 2020.  
 
History suggest that you can not create a viable third party in two years.  I do not see one popping up.  Your all talking as if it will be easy to start a third party.  Bill H.  How about starting an article on the subject.  
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 9:19am
I just heard this on the radio... A pirate ship was just discovered off the coast of Florida.  It's unique in that much of it's treasure horde was still intact; including a gold statue weighing almost a thousand pounds, a chest filled with precious gems... and two stuffed 2018 ballot boxes from heavily Democratic districts. :)
Jeff Michka Added Nov 14, 2018 - 7:09pm
Ol TraitorLynn has to show he's a great humorist, as great as him as "Mr. IT."  He'll invite you to his latest troll article so you can see his brilliance and superiority over people like Autumn, by attacking me.  With all his brilliance and knowledge as "Mr. IT," he'd have his own website and could make it just how he wants things here.  He won't do that, takes more than handing out some neoconfederate bumper stickers  to his pickup truck pards.  There are no illegals voting, Sutrino. It's all rightist whining, and you have expertise in rightist whining.  You can call the site Traitorbeat, TraitorLynn.
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 14, 2018 - 8:05pm
TexasLynn, are you sure that someone didn't discover this ship earlier and didn't tell anyone so they could harvest the 2000 ballot boxes?  Did they report seeing indentations or these boxes and were there other dents?   Curious minds want to know.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 8:09pm
Hey everybody!  You're ALL invited over to my latest "troll article".  Come on over and see how brilliant I am as I hand Jeff Michka his proverbial ass!
 
Not that it has anything to do with this or that post, but have I mentioned I'm an IT guy... some people call me Mr. IT.  I've even had my own website before and may decide to have one again... who knows what a brilliant guy like myself will do from day to day.
 
Hey!  Why don't we transform this site into TexasLynn Beat!  Just something off the top of my head!  I'm an idea guy after all!
 
Poke, poke, poke, poke... poke the Michka… :P
goldminor Added Nov 14, 2018 - 9:05pm
Bill H ...I am in agreement with part of what you have said, but I have felt this way for some years now.
Bill H. Added Nov 14, 2018 - 10:20pm
SEF - I don't think it's even close to being over. I believe Putin is bound determined to fulfill Khrushchev's dream of taking over the US without firing a shot as he stated back in 1956 "we will bury you".
Flying Junior Added Nov 15, 2018 - 1:58am
I wasn't really going to jump in to this morass until I read about the Florida exact signature match law.  There is between 3,500 and 5,000 ballots tossed out just due to that?  Fucking cracker state.
 
Once you have an immoral governor and secretary of state, democrats are forced to win by big margins to compensate for republican voter suppression.
 
It is fairly clear that Brian Kemp as Secretary of State of Georgia could have very easily suppressed fifty or sixty thousand voters and ballots.

Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 15, 2018 - 8:13am
Flying Junior, WHERES THE BEEF!!!!(FACTS ON REPUBLICAN VOTER SUPPRESSION.)  A politician or their attorney saying so is not a fact, that is an opinion.  
 
Flying Junior what is a fact is that two Florida counties have violated election laws that all the other counties followed.  The Democratic supervisors are finding ballots.  And another fact is that the Democratic committee told their voters that Thursday was the deadline for write in ballots for the Tuesday election.  We do know that affidavit have been obtained by some of those DIM votes saying they gave their write in ballot to a Democrat going around to collect them after Tuesday, fraud if they are in those found ballots.  
goldminor Added Nov 15, 2018 - 11:32am
Miami Dade is the largest county in Florida, about 40% greater population thhan Broward. Forty five of Florida's 47 counties had zero problems in this election. What more needs to be said? The situation in Georgia is just another attempt to override the will of the people. If that woman had any dignity, then she would concede.
 
The Arizona election should be looked into. Who knows what happened there as well. They let 2 counties continue with remedial fixes to ballots. Why not let all of the counties take a second look? Probably a bunch of illegals voting down there. I wouldn't put it past the Democrats at this point as they are desperate to regain control.
Frosty Wooldridge Added Nov 15, 2018 - 11:54am
I am convinced that Jeff Michka could be the perfect roommate for Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi and Sheila Jackson.  He owns a vacant skull and offers little constructive thought to any conversation.  
 
The fact remains that so many illegals live in Florida, that regular Americans have fled.  It will continue to degrade and decline into a third world morass.  
Jeff Michka Added Nov 15, 2018 - 4:09pm
Gee, TrtaitorLynn touts his brilliance, and good comment, Frosted Woodhead, xenophobe of the week, makes his entry into being snide, ad fails.  Doesn't Woodhead know George Sors pays my rent, as well as Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi, Sheila Jackson AND Hillary Clinton to get all the rightist "women to hate" in.  The building is managed for Soros by FDR.
Ken Added Nov 15, 2018 - 7:12pm
Miami Dade is the largest county in Florida, about 40% greater population thhan Broward. Forty five of Florida's 47 counties had zero problems in this election. What more needs to be said? The situation in Georgia is just another attempt to override the will of the people
 
I think the overall point is being missed here.  They know they aren't going to win any of these, but if they can pick up enough fake votes to do it so much the better.
 
The point here - and people are asking "Why are the republicans fighting, they know they are going to win, you arent going to make up 15,000 votes in a manual recount" (Fl Governor for example).
 
They are fighting because they cannot allow a precedent to be set by allowing votes to come in late, votes who's trail from ballot to count cannot be followed, unmatched signatures on mail in ballots, other inconsistencies like invalid dates, etc. on ballots being allowed to be counted.
 
If they let it go here, a precedent is set and any battle that is 0.25% or 0.5% or even 1-2% difference can be overturned with potential fraud and any effort to get it involved.
 
In 2020, close states like FL, PA,OH,MI could potentially be flipped.
 
If the precedent is set to allow "all votes must be counted" rather than "all LEGAL votes must be counted" opens the door to incredible amounts of fraud
Flying Junior Added Nov 16, 2018 - 3:43am
Thomas,
 
There is all kinds of evidence of Kemp at the least attempting to suppress the vote in Georgia.  I'll have to get back to you.

Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 16, 2018 - 7:46am
Mr. Kemp’s office uses a controversial method called “exact match” to verify voter applications, which in some cases means individuals can be purged from voting rolls if their submitted information has even trivial differences from their government identification, such as an entry error or a dropped hyphen. . . . Mr. Kemp’s secretary of state office has denied the accusations of intentional voter suppression, and said the reason for the backlog was shoddy voter registration work by liberal groups. Ref: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/11/us/politics/georgia-voter-registration-kemp-abrams.html
 
The rules of purging voter rolls by law can not be done on  an election year by Kemp.  So any purged votes have been done by local election boards.   Typically deaths and people moving are those purged.
 
I am providing the BEEF.  Obviously this is on absentee ballots and as an election judge I can assure you that Mr. Kemp is not the person checking thousands of ballot signatures and that non-experts are checking.  These ballot signatures can be challenged.  This is not voter suppression because of these rules.
Flying Junior Added Nov 17, 2018 - 3:28am
I'm sure that you are a very just and fair election judge.  What an honor!  I hope that you don't live in Florida or Georgia.
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 17, 2018 - 7:40am
I live in Illinois that has election day registration because we had electronic voter list to check.   So the voters signed the screen which as we know from using a credit card how different our signature is on those pads due to angle and tip of the 'pen.'   No required voter ID to vote and the list does not indicate the age of the voter.  So if you know someone is not going to vote we likely would not catch a replacement.   That defines ~2/3 of voters.
Jim Stoner Added Nov 19, 2018 - 2:08pm
(Broward County FL Board of Elections official Brenda) Snipes has resigned--I thought she would.  There was more discussion about this on another thread, but it works here. 
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 19, 2018 - 7:27pm
Jeb Bush picked Snipes.  The choice of the new governor will tell us if he support crone capitalist or conservatives.  Will he buckle or has a thick skin.

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