Civilizing Trolls

Civilizing Trolls
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Autumn (bless her heart) recently tried to rationalize with and civilize a resident troll.  I admire the effort and sympathize with the exasperation she must be going through with this guy.  But, trolls and idiots (often redundant) are the price that must be paid for a wide-open venue.

 

I wanted to contend with some of the statements made in her olive branch comment, but all this (I thought) was a bit off topic for the post/thread.  Thus... this separate post.  I would ask Autumn to please excuse this rare contention (quibble actually), but I question some of her sincerity directed to the troll.  Granting that little white lies are a necessary tool when trying to pacify them.

 

 

Also granted, this troll and I have a history which may cloud my judgment on the subject.  I consider this little guy my personal troll on WB.  Sure, he freelances and torments others, but on the whole, he's mine.  I wear that as a badge of honor. :)  Then there is my nature to poke him with a stick every now and then.  What can I say?  Sometimes his irrational flailing about is entertaining. :)  But back to my point…

 

First, Autumn points out "You hold the dubious honor of being the participant that I’ve received the most complaints about by far.  In fact, excluding complaints regarding you, I don’t recall the last time someone complained about anyone using this site." <sarcasm> Now THAT is a surprise! </sarcasm> :)

 

But then comes what I contend is a little white lie... Autumn writing "Unlike your complainers, I think your comments generally add value and serve to highlight flaws in logic and reasoning of your opponents."

 

I don't mean to nit-pick, but... really?  I can count on one hand the number of times this troll's comments were relevant to the post at all... and less than that, the number of times anything he wrote added to the thread/discussion.  That's if you can even make heads or tails out of what he is writing.  Often, it's equivalent to "mambo wanna dog face Traitorlynn to the banana patch".

 

That little white lie being a little too big to swallow, Autumn had no choice but to add "…emphasis on 'generally'".  But I submit "generally" implies majority and I just don't see it.  Even the word "rarely" would be a stretch too far.  “Practically never”?  Probably more accurate.

 

Then comes the attempt to tame/civilize the troll... "So why not tone it down and say what you need to say without resorting to insults and foul language."

 

Good advice, and something that would definitely contribute to the overall quality of WB... so I understand at least the attempt.  BUT... can a troll really be tempered?  It's an age-old question and my opinion is I've never seen it happen in all my days of blogging.  You’re asking a duck not to swim.  The duck doesn't know anything else.  To paraphrase a contemporary artist, "Haters gonna hate.  Trolls 're goona troll."

 

So then comes the carrot... "I think you’ll find your thoughts will be far better received, not to mention...read."

 

But the carrot assumes those things ("received" and "read") are something the troll values.  Again, I doubt it.

 

The carrot is, at least, a statement of fact; minus the obvious cognition of "where exactly does one go from near ZERO?  Other than up"?

 

I understand wishing circumstances to be different; but then reality must be recognized and dealt with. There will always be trolls... so maybe the better question is; "Is it too much to ask that trolls be at least minimally literate?"  The latest/new troll to take up residence under the WB bridge of "reason, civility and coherence" is at least that.

Comments

TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 1:14pm
For the record, I have not "complained" about said troll in over a year. There is no point in it. And... Autumn has changed my mind on the subject of trolls (and what to do with them) in general.
 
This post is not meant to advocate for driving off the trolls; but rather expose that when dealing with them we should understand that they are what they are.
 
The best way to deal with a troll in my opinion is just ignore him. AND... when he crosses the line, be liberal with that little red X. You'll be doing a favor to your readers (those who have put forth a valid effort to read and engage on your posts). But, if you're that adverse of "censorship", OK... just leave those little droppings for people to step over. It's not that big a deal.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 1:50pm
Tex
 
I'm sure that Jeff will like that LOL
 
BTW: He might be a bit of tuff on some stuff, but I like him. Of course that will qualify me now to be hated. But that's ok.
 
Know why ?
 
Because not everybody agrees to your views either. And whether someone writes politely or not is not important. Give and take. Often it's the between the lines that is the message. So - what's the use of this article really ? Some kind of vendetta stuff ?
opher goodwin Added Nov 14, 2018 - 1:54pm
I guess one man's troll is another man's droll wit. Depends on one's viewpoint.
But all too often on WB we are getting knee-jerk responses with little or no relevance to the topic and no attempt at rational argument.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 1:56pm
Oph
 
Hey, you got a new job as diplomat now ? LOL
 
(Sorry, I'm just in that mood :-)
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 2:00pm
BTW: I've had real fights with Michael B here, you remember ? But what the hell, life goes on, and at one point we started to understand each other better. We saw that there's certain points where we're both stubborn at. So we both found points we agree on. 
And since then things cooled down. That's what I defend Jeff. There's more that is visible. And some people have a temper. Personally I prefer people who show temper - in whatever form, Why ?
 
Because that way I see that they feel.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 2:02pm
Oph Sorry. Too many typos there. But also Tex, I hope you see what I mean.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 2:37pm
SE >> I'm sure that Jeff will like that LOL
 
I'm sorry... why are you assuming it's "Jeff"?  I don't think his name was specifically brought up in the post.  Maybe I'm taking about a completely different troll.
 
SE >> He might be a bit of tuff on some stuff, but I like him.
 
But... while we are on the subject of Jeff (outside the scope and subject of this post)...
 
I guess it's just a matter of taste.  If you like him... good for you.
 
I don't find him "tuff" at all (my taste and opinion).  The words "offensive, vulgar, and retarded" come to mind.
 
SE >> Of course that will qualify me now to be hated. But that's ok.
 
You seem to be expecting a Michka like response?  Why?
 
I may question your sanity and objectivity for that opinion... but I don't surely hate you for it for it.  And note that I haven't used one vulgar, obscene word in response to our disagreement.
 
You and I have enough differences of opinion and quarrel all the time.  I don't take it personally.  With Jeff... everything is personal.
 
SE >> Know why ? Because not everybody agrees to your views either.
 
Views have nothing to do with it IMO.  You and I have different view, yet our comments and discourse can have meaning and value.  That goes for a lot of people with differing views.
 
SE >> And whether someone writes politely or not is not important.
 
I would disagree, it is only important in reflecting the content of their character (or lack there-of).
 
SE >> Often it's the between the lines that is the message.
 
Really?  As a favor... would you kindly find me a Jeff comment that contains such a "between the lines" message and explain it to me?  And would you kindly give me a rough estimation as to the percentage of his comments have such hidden meaning?
 
SE >> So - what's the use of this article really ? Some kind of vendetta stuff ?
 
Admittedly this is a "stick poke" of sorts.  But surely there is a bit more to it than that concerning the overall nature of trolls?
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 2:38pm
Opher G >> I guess one man's troll is another man's droll wit. Depends on one's viewpoint.
 
I don't think so.  Again... an example or two of this "droll wit" you speak of would be nice.  I'm not saying that it's not there at all... but if it is, it's the rare exception.
 
I would encourage anyone and everyone to peruse his "contributions" for such gems.  I would link to articles… but those are very, very, rare.  Why is that?  Because trolls comment… not write articles.
 
Opher G >> But all too often on WB we are getting knee-jerk responses with little or no relevance to the topic and no attempt at rational argument.
 
Which is the very definition of a troll and Jeff M comment.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 2:38pm
SE >> But also Tex, I hope you see what I mean.
 
I get (and value) your opinion on this... but we don't agree.  I think for you and Opher it's just a matter of whose ox is being gored.  It's not yours so, instead you see “meaning between the lines” and “droll wit” that is rarely there.
 
I offer Ryan Messano an example.  He was an amateur, compared to Michka, in terms of trolling; but he drove you guys bat-shit crazy?  How much “droll wit” did you see with Ryan.  Personally, I saw an equal amount as Jeff Michka… meaning zero.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 2:54pm
Tex
 
You're cool, admitted :-) You see, my problem is that I think Jeff (it was too obvious that you meant him....and you know that) may be not polite and is aggressive at times, but to my personal POV he says no bullshit.
 
I think some people are sensible to answers. I can remember Ryan Messie. To me, he was simply a fake religious weirdo, and I told him so. I was blunt. And I gave this asshole shit, if you know what I mean. No diplomat there.
 
You see, when I read answers or articles or comments I always imagine the person behind it at that moment. I try to look through his eyes, where does he live, where does he come from, what are his plans (if he's open enough to tell bits). And - emotions are important, in whichever form they come across.
 
That way I always hope to learn something of that person. Get a bigger picture. And there's a big difference between a mentally restricted person like Ryan and Jeff, believe me.
 
I'm not defending Jeff as a main point but you brought him up with this article. I just say that there are far worse, and more narrow-minded people here. But they don't make it to a subject because they use a more …. hm... sophisticated and less emotional language.
George N Romey Added Nov 14, 2018 - 3:22pm
I love the troll avatar.  Seriously, there are people in life that everyone avoids.  Prior to social media they had no platform.  They were ignored by others but social media makes them feel they can be part of the "cool kid crowd."  However, since they have a hate for what they deem as "the in crowd" (this being on social media) they fight back with taunts, insults, and jeers.  But they really never add anything of substance to any conversation.  They think writing in all caps on some kind of bazaar short hand somehow says "no, I'm the cool kid here." 
 
Ultimately they were like that fat kid in school.  When the teacher was trying to have a serious discussion with his/her students the fat kid would constantly say something stupid.  The teacher would roll his/her eyes while the students would laugh.  But the kid clueless to the fact he was being laughed at, not laughed with.  Training exercises for their future as a social media troll.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 3:24pm
SE >> Jeff (it was too obvious that you meant him....and you know that)
 
Of course, I meant Jeff Michka.
 
SE >> You see, my problem is that I think Jeff may be not polite and is aggressive at times, but to my personal POV he says no bullshit.
 
OK... not polite and aggressive is a nice way of putting vulgar, obscene, and hate-filled... but point taken. 
 
As for as "bullshit" is concerned through, if Michka entered a no bullshit zone, he'd melt like the Wicked Witch of the West.
 
SE >> ... Ryan Messie ...
 
Ryan was Jeff Michka, just less obscene… and more verbose/literate.  I know you guys aren't going to see it... but that's my point.  It's all about oxes.
 
SE >> And - emotions are important, in whichever form they come across.
 
I'm OK with that.  But Michka comments (if they are even coherent) are nothing but the emotion of vile hatred and little else.
 
SE >> I'm not defending Jeff as a main point, but you brought him up with this article.
 
Jeff was the point of the article.
 
SE >> I just say that there are far worse, and more narrow-minded people here.
 
Yes... those goring your oxes for example.
 
SE >> But they don't make it to a subject because they use a more …. hm... sophisticated and less emotional language.
 
And… they are semi-literate and coherent?
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 3:25pm
Again... If you really want to help me understand what you're saying...
 
As a favor... would you kindly find me a Jeff Michka comment that contains such a "between the lines" message and explain it to me?
 
To make it easier, here is the last comment Jeff Michka made.  Other than being (for the most part) deranged and un-readable... what hidden gem of hidden meaning exists here?  Please enlighten me.  (Find another is you need to).
 
"The Left" ol Lyin Lindsay whines about and Kenny, not worth a farthing or lists items Ds might investigate.  Why would they if there was no reason, unless you buy into Kenny's crapola.  I rather doubt there will be any T party defectors to help do more than investigate, what you lying rightists freak out over.  I suspect, like any sane person, ol Orange Dictator has been fleecing the public, swelling the family coffers left by Trumpy's father.  Trump steals, Trump takes  He's a damnable real estate developer, in my book, that alone makes him a simple, unethical thief.  Gee, d on't you have some jihad to attend to, brainless Kenny?   Why are rightist young slimebags  "better prepared?"  Can they lie better than  Kenny or other cheap rightists?" -- Jeff Michka
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 3:44pm
George R >> I love the troll avatar.
 
It's definitely applicable to the subject of the post.  I feel for Autumn reaching the point where she thinks she must try to civilize a troll.  It would be easier to catch, clean and dress a greased pig.
 
George R >> Seriously, there are people in life that everyone avoids.  Prior to social media they had no platform.
 
Yeah... there is a social misfit aspect to all of this.  And I have to admit to having a morbid curiosity concerning the Michka (and a few others) and what made him the way he is.  Kinda of like passing a really bad car-wreck.  One might theorize a lifetime or drugs or alcohol... a stoke or "mentally restricted" (as SE characterized the condition).  I've inquired... but nobody seems to know.
 
George R >> But they really never add anything of substance to any conversation.
 
That is a key point to the article.  We're all expected to pretend that Michka "generally" "contributes" something.  Yet substantive examples are in short supply.
 
All these defenses are really just saying one of two things…
1) He’s not goring my ox, so whatever…
2) Throw the troll a bone of flattery before trying to civilize him
 
I've just never been one to pretend the emperor (or troll) has clothes, when his bare backside is staring everybody in the face.
George N Romey Added Nov 14, 2018 - 4:18pm
If I experienced a social media site in which I thought all the contributors were total morons and well below me I'd move on to somewhere I thought the participants were more up to my par.   But the typical troll is trolling (hence the term "troll") for self validation and gets it by taunts.  
Liberal1 Added Nov 14, 2018 - 4:21pm
LOL  I personally like trolls.  I find their ramblings to be rather humorous and, very occasionally, they accidentally make sense.
 
As was previously stated, those you consider to be trolls are most likely different than mine.   Your point about the comment to post ratio is on target, however.
 
For example, there is a certain poster who has been here a couple months longer than I have that I consider to be a troll that you may not.  His 3 articles to his 390 comments fits your criteria and I think of him as a"libertari-troll" because he says things like "I have never thought of freedom as a gift from others." on a post about a certain branch of the US military which he apparently thinks little of (I wonder if he thinks the English sold it to his ancestors?).  That thinking may be closer to your's then it is mine (I don't know so I'm just wild ass guessing here) so you might not think of him that way.
 
BTW, I don't think your average troll likes carrots.  They either think it is one of them lefty vegan things or else the color reminds them too much of Trump.  We might need to have a poll on what is the best thing to go along with that stick.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 4:27pm
Mogg Tsur
Your assessment of the word "troll" and it’s evolution is correct.  It is now (IMO) one of those words like "fascist" that people simply adopt as a piece of poo to be thrown at an opponent they don't like for whatever reason or disagree with.
 
It is not my intent to use the word in such a manner.  My peers will have to be the judge of that (given my heated relationship with the troll in question).
 
To be clear, my definition of the word "troll" (as applied to this post and my general use) is a more classic definition; as in one who mainly desires to evoke an emotional response/reply.  With that being the main goal, they...
1) Often or mainly resort to little more than personal attacks
2) Use liberally emotional language and obscenity
3) Pay little heed to the subject of the post
 
I think all of these characteristics describes the troll in question.  It doesn't take much observation or objectivity to see that.
 
Added characteristics (such as being generally incoherent) may be mentioned but are irrelevant to the label applied.
 
Case in point, I disagree with (early on often) both Stone Eater and Opher Goodwin.  We have heated and emotional debates.  Neither is a troll.  I do however reserve the right to place each in other boxes as (and when) I see fit.
James Travil Added Nov 14, 2018 - 4:41pm
As I see it, the biggest difference between someone like Jeff and Ryan is that Ryan was such a cowardly little punk that he actively tried to get people he disliked here banned. Initially that illustrious group was limited to four people (the "Four Horseman of Ryan's Apocalypse" as I called us), that being Opher, Stone, myself, and Jeff. The list later grew to include many but regardless us original four remained. And anyone who pissed off Ryan has at least my understanding (to some degree). The next biggest difference between someone like Jeff and Ryan is Ryan actively tried to get others to change to be more like him and acceptable in his narrow vision. That really burns me up, the notion that I or anyone needs to conform to some elitist snobs ideas. Someone being a Christian, including a devout Christian does not bother me one bit (which is why I can get along with you Tex) but someone who is self-righteous and tries to force their nonsense on me and others infuriats me to no end. To me Jeff is nothing like that. He is just negatively and unbridled chaos, which are things I can understand. Plus he comes up with some hilarious nicknames for people he hates (Doomsday Book being my favorite to date). 
James Travil Added Nov 14, 2018 - 4:41pm
Incidentally, the above all said, I can understand your frustration. 
George N Romey Added Nov 14, 2018 - 4:48pm
Ryan's problems go well beyond WB.  He's been banned from just about every social media outlet.  There was a post put up with him being escorted out of a school board meeting by the police.  He  believes homosexuality and porn are to blame for all society's ails. He clearly appears to be a raging closet case with issues galore.  For all practical purposes he's schizophrenic to the core.  
 
Although he's a very sad individual you have to wonder if he will pop.  He's clearly a powder keg ready to explode.  Or he ends up committing suicide hating himself every time he has a sexual urge (more than likely towards men).  
Neil Lock Added Nov 14, 2018 - 4:59pm
Lynn: You say that Autumn made an "olive branch comment." Why not link to it, or at least to the thread it was on? Else I can't find it easily.
 
I'm probably one of the most "Jeff M tolerant" writers here (I'm inured to his barbs, and besides which, he rarely launches them at me personally. Interestingly, Michael B behaves similarly, even though he knows I'm a "Limey.") So I'm on Autumn's side; let's try to see if Jeff M has virtues that might outcompete his vices.
 
I've noticed three or four decent comments Jeff Michka has made. To re-find them, I would need better filters than WB has at the moment, like: "What has he said on my threads?" And it shouldn't take 30 seconds (or more) to get into a profile.
 
Stone-Eater: Your comments on this thread have been exemplary. Thank you.
 
James: Thanks for your reminiscences of Ryan Messano. I felt I was No. 13 of his 12 - another he would like to accuse, but couldn't even start to make any case against me.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:06pm
Liberal1 >> LOL  I personally like trolls.  I find their ramblings to be rather humorous and, very occasionally, they accidentally make sense.
 
I can see your point.  Done right, trolling could in fact be hilarious.  I've never seen anybody pull it off... but in concept; I'm there.
 
As I mentioned, I'm not above poking someone with a figurative stick to get a response, but usually have motives beyond that.  This post falls into that category as did my original post about a year ago on the subject of Michka.  A Writer Beat Fairy Tale  (one of the commenters mentioned this post was basically trolling on the subject of a troll).
 
Liberal1 >> As was previously stated, those you consider to be trolls are most likely different than mine.
 
It's probably like the definition of "pornography"... We know it when we see it.
 
Liberal1 >> Your point about the comment to post ratio is on target, however.
 
See... agreement.
 
Liberal1 >> For example, there is a certain poster who has been here a couple months longer than I have that I consider to be a troll that you may not.
 
Well I hope I would apply the standard I described above.  The word troll (like fascist) does not have an ideological monopoly.  You can completely agree with everything I say/think... and be a troll.  It's simply a road one decides to go down (some by choice, some by fate).
 
Liberal1 >> That thinking may be closer to your's then it is mine (I don't know so I'm just wild ass guessing here) so you might not think of him that way.
 
My thinking (agreement/disagreement) would be immaterial to ascertaining the status of troll.  I would have to know the context of the statement in relation to the topic.
 
Another sure sign of a troll IMO (and lest see if we agree) would be repeating himself; basically saying the same thing in comments across many posts over time.  So, if the commenter you mentioned posted this exact phrase again, and again, and again... that would point towards a troll.
 
If Jeff Michka doesn't have a master file where he copy/pastes his "comments" to WB... he's wasting a lot of repetitive typing.
 
Liberal1 >> BTW, I don't think your average troll likes carrots. 
 
The carrot is, of course, figurative; simply something the one offering it hopes the troll (or whoever) will like and trade for.  In the example cited the carrot is in becoming more "received and read".  In relation to trolls (and this one in particular) … that would be like offering a literal carrot to a carnivore. :)
 
Liberal1 >> We might need to have a poll on what is the best thing to go along with that stick.
 
I've never been one to add much of anything to the stick. :) 
 
As for your silly little poll? :)  “You're fooling yourself!  We're living in a dictatorship!  A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes…” 
 
When our benevolent ruler wants our opinion… she’ll beat it out of us…  :P
Ken Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:29pm
I suspect the types of posts neil is talking about are non-political.  I have heard that he occasionally contributes good comments on apolitical threads.
 
He has scorched earth syndrome with anything/one who has remotely conservative political beliefs.
 
Trust me, he isn't your personal troll, I just use the red x a good bit, and have set specific standards for him and made it clear what is expected for his post to remain on my thread.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:49pm
James T >> As I see it, the biggest difference between someone like Jeff and Ryan is that Ryan was such a cowardly little punk that he actively tried to get people he disliked here banned.
 
Well, if I'm being honest, about a year ago I did advocate to have Jeff Michka at least reined in; and booted if that didn't work.  It's not as if he would have been the first (another troll, John G, had just been banned from the site).  Anyway, that was the final point made in A Writer Beat Fairy Tale... that we would be better off without the trolls.
 
Autumn's response was basically "Deal with it".  OK... I'm a big boy.  I dealt with it.  And... in hindsight she was right, I was wrong.
 
Do you hear that WB leftist!  I... TexasLynn... was wrong!
 
James T >> ... Ryan ...
 
If I'm bearing my soul here, I must admit I got a perverse bit pleasure out of the %$#@ Ryan stirred among the leftist here on WB (maybe you were a bit collateral damage).  I couldn't help but think "welcome to my world".  But even today, my correlation between the two seems to fall on deaf ears.  Maybe it is me... but IMO there is a correlation (see below)
 
If I remember correctly, eventually it reached a point where people were threatening that Ryan should be banned or they would leave.  Now THAT, I thought was beyond the pale.  If Ryan went in that manner (because of his abuse), then I would have called out the double standard (because Jeff M is a lot more abusive that Ryan ever was).
 
James T >> The next biggest difference between someone like Jeff and Ryan is Ryan actively tried to get others to change to be more like him and acceptable in his narrow vision.
 
I'm sure Ryan would have liked for me to join his "crusade".  Note that I didn't.  Why?  That style is not what I think Christ wants from me... for one thing it has zero chance of getting someone to consider my argument.  So how much good can come from it?  It just stirs the port and pisses everybody off... kinda like a... troll.
 
James T >> Someone being a Christian, including a devout Christian does not bother me one bit (which is why I can get along with you Tex)
 
Exactly.  How much does it seem to bother me that your a "Satanist".
 
James T >> but someone who is self-righteous and tries to force their nonsense on me and others infuriats me to no end.
 
And for good reason.  I feel the same way when the secular world does the same thing on me.  And... again... I don't think "force" and "yelling" and "berating" is what Christ wants from me in that regard.
 
James T >> To me Jeff is nothing like that.
 
Agreed.  And I'm not saying the two were clones.  Not being exactly the same does not negate the premise of sharing some other characteristics (such as trolling).
 
If you look at my definition above... (now provided here) wouldn't you say this applied to Ryan? (replacing obscenity with self-righteousness)
 
One who mainly desires to evoke an emotional response/reply. 
With that being the main goal, a troll...
1) Often or mainly resorts to little more than personal attacks
2) Use liberally emotional language and obscenity
3) Pay little heed to the subject of the post
 
Because I don't see how anyone argues the above definition doesn't apply to Michka.
 
James T >> He is just negatively and unbridled chaos, which are things I can understand.
 
No argument here... but those characteristics don't absolve him from being a troll... it just defines the flavor of troll he is.
 
James T >> Plus he comes up with some hilarious nicknames for people he hates (Doomsday Book being my favorite to date).
 
As I said above... "Done right, trolling could in fact be hilarious", and Jeff can entertain.  Which is one reason I poke him with a stick every now and then.  BUT... occasionally entertaining, again, does not absolve him from being a troll.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:49pm
James T >> Incidentally, the above all said, I can understand your frustration.
 
I'm much less frustrated that I was a year ago.  So please don't think this post is about that.  I promise, you, I can handle the slings and arrows of Jeff Michka.  Knocking him on his proverbial ass from time to time is actually cathartic.
 
So, don't worry about that insignificant detail, look at these more important points of the post.
 
1) It's sad that Autumn has seen the situation reach a point where she thinks she needs to try and do the impossible, civilize a troll.
 
2) It's a given that there always will be trolls.  We can deal with them by exposing them, then ignoring them, deleting them when necessary, and occasionally... poking them with a stick. :)
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:53pm
Ok. I've said what I had to say now go ahead and bash some more. If that relieves you it has done its purpose, no ?
 
Gnite.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:55pm
BTW: Luckily you all seem to be clean and pure in the face of god since hesheit has one LIL
Stone-Eater Added Nov 14, 2018 - 5:57pm
LOL. Sorry. Jeff the bad dangerous troll caused a typo.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 6:07pm
SE >> Ok. I've said what I had to say...
 
Fair enough, thank you for your comments.
 
SE >> now go ahead and bash some more. If that relieves you it has done its purpose, no?
 
I hope you are referring to the bashing as to Michka (and not yourself). I think you have been treated with respect in this thread. Respect being earned, when extended I try to reciprocate...
 
As for as bashing Michka. I've got no qualms here. It would take ten more such posts to equate to what they prick does in 24 hours.
 
Gnite.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 6:09pm
SE >> LOL. Sorry. Jeff the bad dangerous troll caused a typo.
 
I'm sure the Michka will eventually crawl out from under his bridge and I'll let him have his say... as long as he keeps the obscenity in check.
Ken Added Nov 14, 2018 - 6:42pm
I'm sure the Michka will eventually crawl out from under his bridge and I'll let him have his say... as long as he keeps the obscenity in check.
 
Hah!  I was wondering if he had attempted to respond here yet.  Not really surprised he hasn't
Jeff Michka Added Nov 14, 2018 - 6:45pm
AH,ol generate neoconfederate TraitorLynn.  Someone really needs to shove your vegetables into a manure spreader and fly a crop duster into it..  What you don't like about me is calling you out as a total, complete hypocrite with you neoconfederate as super patriot self image you obviously bask in.  As much as you go on about me, you seem to suffer from an excessive amount of narccisim . You are a big deal "IT guy" in your mind, use to telling people what they MUST do, according to TraitorLynn.  You've done it here.  You've gone on about "the wonder of TraitorLynn", ace Texican, and have resented me for calling you a fake.  Did counter it, didn't admit it, just called me a Troll.  So I was right.  You clearly have an ego problem, go on and on about evil Jeff, but always deflecting any questioning of you and your phony baloney Texas-sized ego-driven drivel.  And to make it worse, you hide behind Geezus, knowing it buys you a break: "But TraitoLynn is a good Xtain, "...he can't be a rank hypocrite 'cause he loves Gawd."  But he can't admit he's a political hypocrite.  You obviously crawled out from under a cow turd, so keep up the Troll crap, wothless Xtain Loser.  Tell WB about what a remarkable super patriot you are  all pee'd off about the NFL, then tell us how to break up the Union...and that latter makes you a traitor, not rightist hero.
Jeff Michka Added Nov 14, 2018 - 6:56pm
I know two comments in a row are frowned on, but then there's the poor, downtrodden, aging out (he's nearly 60!!!) was basically shiftlessly unemploed, and came on WB to cry, shed tears, and in his words "find defenders," you know ol Geeho Romey, who probably dislikes me as much as TraitorLynn, but basically for the same reason.  Geeho was so 'hapless and helpless," his family undoubtedly walked on him.  I didn't think Geeho a complete loser, to the contrary, he had things to offer, but spent his time crying and expecting people on WB to dry his tearfilled eyes, and they did.  According to Geeho, he's back on his game, so to celebrate, he wrote an article where he called people that actually did things, including drying Geeho's eyes, they were "stupid" and went on how they were.  If there was any stu[pidity, it was drying Geeho's little eyes.  Now which WBer will pat him on the back and tell him he'll be an elite sooner rather than later when he's "too old."  He'll spit on you later, rather than sooner, but he will spit on you.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 7:02pm
Houston!  The Michka has landed! LMAO.  Jeff!  Thank you!  A whole (mostly obscenity free) comment that I can leave up!  A rare treat!  So, ladies and gentlemen... HERE is the rebuttal... choke full of "between the lines" meaning and "droll wit". :)  Don't read it all at once.  Take it in slowly!  Savor each word, each "sentence", each para... oh wait there are no paragraphs.  Anyway... enjoy. :)
 
The Michka >> I know two comments in a row are frowned on, but...
 
No Jeff, for you... I'll make an exception.  Just not for the obscenity.  Ken and I have our standards.
 
George, if you don't mind, I'll leave both comments up... since they essentially prove the point of the entire post.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 7:14pm
George R >> But the typical troll is trolling for self validation and gets it by taunts. 
 
Exactly!  What most get out of WB is interaction, discussion and debate (to various degrees of ability).
 
BUT when that obviously isn't the goal of a particular participant.  When their goal is something different, like "self-validation via taunts".  That's a troll.  Who here will say the latter is not a (to the tee) definition of Michka?
 
George R >> Ryan's problems go well beyond WB...
 
And you don't think Michka's don't?  You think outside WB he not a prick? 
 
George R >> He (Ryan) believes homosexuality and porn are to blame for all society's ails.
 
Well, though I wouldn't use the word "all", I would agree that "porn" is a horrible problem within society.  Homosexuality less so in terms of degree.
 
So am I any different than Ryan, then.
 
Again, this isn't an about "issues" and "ideology".
 
George R >> He clearly appears to be a raging closet case with issues galore.  For all practical purposes he's schizophrenic to the core.  Although he's a very sad individual you have to wonder if he will pop. He's clearly a powder keg ready to explode.
 
And?  Michka isn't?
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 7:15pm
Neil >> Lynn: You say that Autumn made an "olive branch comment." Why not link to it, or at least to the thread it was on? Else I can't find it easily.
 
The "olive branch comment" was included in its entirety dispersed in the post itself... in quotes.
 
Here is the whole of it (undispersed)...
"Michka, You hold the dubious honor of being the participant that I’ve received the most complaints about by far.  In fact, excluding complaints regarding you, I don’t recall the last time someone complained about anyone using this site.  Unlike your complainers, I think your comments generally add value and serve to highlight flaws in logic and reasoning of your opponents…emphasis on “generally.”  So why not tone it down and say what you need to say without resorting to insults and foul language.  I think you’ll find your thoughts will be far better received, not to mention...read." -- Autumn Cote Added Nov 13, 2018 - 6:50pm
 
Here is the link to the post... "Here's What's Wrong With WRITER BEAT" just search on "Jeff Michka" to see what "Autumn Cote" is referring to for reference.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Neil >> I'm probably one of the most "Jeff M tolerant" writers here (I'm inured to his barbs, and besides which, he rarely launches them at me personally.)
 
Again, my purpose is simply to expose the Michka... nothing more.
 
All he does is launch at me personally (and a few others)... again it's a badge of honor.
 
Neil >>  So I'm on Autumn's side; let's try to see if Jeff M has virtues that might outcompete his vices.
 
Knock yourselves out. :)  I'll handle the vice side of things until you get back to me with something. :)
 
Are there any other Holy Grails you and Autumn will set your minds to?  :)
 
Neil >> I've noticed three or four decent comments Jeff Michka has made. To re-find them, I would need better filters than WB has at the moment
 
Of the 5593 comments Jeff Michka has made on WB to date... let me concede three or four or even as many as a dozen that might fall in the category of "decent".  Don't let it be said I'm not reasonable and even handed. :)
 
But Neil?  Don't you think that it's pertinent that you can't readily lay hands on even ONE decent comment says something.  And "comment" is all this guy does.  He doesn't post.  How hard would it be to find a "decent comment" for ANY other WB participant?
 
Shouldn't you just be able to go to Michka's profile and pick one from the first page that comes up?  Yes, of course.  But you can't.  And THAT says something in relation to my point.  Is it an accident that I ask a few Michka apologist to give me a (as in one) concrete example of his "meaning between the lines" and "droll wit"... and all I get back is <crickets>?
 
I'm sure someone can eventually (given enough hours) find SOMETHING of an example.  But if it was going to be easy... somebody would have done it by now.
 
Neil >> Stone-Eater: Your comments on this thread have been exemplary.
 
Yes... they have.
 
Neil >> James : Thanks for your reminiscences of Ryan Messano.
 
Yes... thank you.
TexasLynn Added Nov 14, 2018 - 7:15pm
Ken >> I suspect the types of posts neil is talking about are non-political.
 
They would have to be... and non-social. 
 
Ken >> I have heard that he occasionally contributes good comments on apolitical threads.
 
As have I.  But I don't pretend they are the rule.  I don't even pretend they make up 1% of the volume.  And I'm mean for pointing out the emperor has no clothes.
 
Ken >> He has scorched earth syndrome with anything/one who has remotely conservative political beliefs.
 
Absolutely... but that alone does not a troll make.
 
Ken >> Trust me, he isn't your personal troll...
 
Whoooaaaa!  Now you've gone too far.  I've been accommodating to all commenters, but you, sir, have crossed the line.  Do NOT even pretend that Michka is not MY personal troll.  Yes, we have a "open" arrangement and I'm fully aware that he harangues other conservatives, but I assure you, sir, he knows who his master originally assigned him to.  TexasLynn. :) :) :)
 
Ken >> I just use the red x a good bit, and have set specific standards for him and made it clear what is expected for his post to remain on my thread.
 
Yep... I would encourage that policy for all trolls.  Michka is the only one I've had to use it on... but I see a bit of a prodigy skulking in the wings... :)
goldminor Added Nov 14, 2018 - 8:25pm
Texas Lynn ...maybe sharpen that stick a bit more just for the fun of it all.
Thomas Sutrina Added Nov 14, 2018 - 8:35pm
WB is here as a platform for trolls to let off steam.  So as long as they aim at the statements of people and not the properties that are not controllable then they have not stepped out of bounds.  Attacking myths is in the middle territory.  
 
So how does one handle them.  Well this article is an example.  often one can use there statements as a foil.  Humor is another tactic.  The one I tend to use is to tear their arguments apart with facts.
Ken Added Nov 14, 2018 - 9:10pm
but I see a bit of a prodigy skulking in the wings... :)
 
A couple of them, actually, but I am not going to put limits on normal trolls like I do on Michka.  Unless they attempt to completely derail topic, if they are reasonably polite and don't make personal attacks - especially with constant crude remarks, I will not remove them.  
 
I believe in the civil society.  To participate in my threads you may disagree, but you must be respectful of others.  It is that simple.
 
I get frustrated in some threads and with some people (particularly Opher) and say things in more firebombing ways than I probably should, but I still don't get crude and nasty, even though I may question integrity and motive and fact.
Women are Inferior Added Nov 14, 2018 - 10:21pm
Ya' all do realize what a huge ego boost you are providing to trolls in general and one in particular? "DON"T FEED THE TROLLS", says the sign. And I thought that you staunch right-wingers didn't negotiate with terrorists, especially left-wing ones! LOL!!!!
 
No matter though...the fact that most sides are making efforts to listen as well as to speak is always a good thing. Truth be told, I'd be glad to sit down and a have a beer with everyone here.
Koshersalaami Added Nov 15, 2018 - 12:07am
Personally, though I don’t have much use for the constantly screaming approach and don’t find it effective, I don’t think it’s anywhere near as bad as really blatant bigotry based on a series of obvious lies about an ethnic group or religion. In the case of this site, at least two religions. Manners are apparently more of an issue here than slanderous content if what Autumn hears collectively from us is any indication. 
Koshersalaami Added Nov 15, 2018 - 12:10am
I hope no one thinks I’m making a veiled reference to TexasLynn. He is not who I am referring to. 
Flying Junior Added Nov 15, 2018 - 2:25am
A troll is a trouble maker.  Not somebody who pisses you off.
 
"The Left" ol Lyin Lindsay whines about and Kenny, not worth a farthing or lists items Ds might investigate.  Why would they if there was no reason, unless you buy into Kenny's crapola.  I rather doubt there will be any T party defectors to help do more than investigate, what you lying rightists freak out over.  I suspect, like any sane person, ol Orange Dictator has been fleecing the public, swelling the family coffers left by Trumpy's father.  Trump steals, Trump takes  He's a damnable real estate developer, in my book, that alone makes him a simple, unethical thief.  Gee, d on't you have some jihad to attend to, brainless Kenny?   Why are rightist young slimebags  "better prepared?"  Can they lie better than  Kenny or other cheap rightists?"
 
I've read this comment three or four times.  I still don't get what is supposed to be wrong with it.
 
Should I translate it?
 
Number one, Lindsay Wheeler is the lyin'est son-of-a-bitch on this entire site.  As a man who takes his Christianity seriously you should be absolutely disgusted with an insane apostate such as Lindsay.  I don't normally advocate shunning.  But that is one sick freak of nature.  Would not touch him with a ten foot pole.
 
Jeff is not the only person tired of hearing a vague vilification of, "the left."  Y'all are sick in the head.  You claim that there is no truth or virtue to be found in people to the left of your own extreme politics.
 
So Kenny lists this compilation of democratic wish lists as if this is a dire warning for all Americans.  In other words something that we should fear.  Jeff points out that none of these proposed investigations are based on anything less than well-known and provable fact.  He furthermore suggests that republicans will be of no help whatsoever in carrying through any investigations.
 
Jeff observes that Trump has been abusing the office of the president to steer business to his hotels and Mar-a-Lago.  Then he remarks that it is Trump's trademark to steal and fraudulently obtain money from innocent victims.  Again, this is all public domain.  Everybody should know this stuff.
 
The last couple of sentences are a bit unclear as to context.  I guess he is tired of listening to the same lies over and over from so-called experts and wonks.  Right-wingers buy into an entire mythology of alternative facts, fake news, you name it.  It is hard to believe that this has happenned in the U.S.
 
So find another comment if you want to illustrate that Michka is a troll.  That fucking Lindsay is damn troll if I ever met one.  Scares the shit outta me because he is more or less serious.










Thomas Napers Added Nov 15, 2018 - 3:25am
I agree the Flying Junior.  Disagreement does not make one a troll.  Nor does the use of foul language and insults.  As it relates to this post, because you dedicated it to calling Michka a troll, you deserve every insult he dishes out.  However, he didn’t just dish out insults. He also highlighted the fact you’re a hypocrite and traitor for claiming to be an American and at the same time writing this: A Case for Secession
 
I wonder, what else have you written where Michka is justified in calling you a hypocrite and traitor?  
Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 3:31am
Wow. This is really cool. And isn't it a somewhat bad sign that an article about ONE person gets more responses than many professionally written articles about worthy subjects ?
 
This is like a meeting of bored old ladies complaining about people of their neighborhood at their daily 5 o'clock tea LOL
Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 3:32am
....from now on, ladies, I'm not into that anymore. I prefer the pub around the corner :-)
Flying Junior Added Nov 15, 2018 - 3:56am
You fucker!  I'm gonna get you for this!
Flying Junior Added Nov 15, 2018 - 4:05am
Daa!  Say!  Wait just a minute...
 
Stone you commented nine times on this thread and I only jumped in once.  Now you're like the football coach or a drill sergeant?

Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 4:12am
FJ
 
I hate football and I hate the army. I'm going to play a round of pool now, and since I've said it all (and also all that wasn't necessary at all ;-) I'm gonna win that game. You know, I've learned pool and snooker in New Zealand, and these Maori guys aren't only good shearers but also good gamers :-)
Flying Junior Added Nov 15, 2018 - 4:15am
The last time I shaved a couple of pigeons was in Llandovery, Wales.  I used to play a lot in Pacific Beach.  I miss it.

James Added Nov 15, 2018 - 4:35am
“Good advice, and something that would definitely contribute to the overall quality of WB... so I understand at least the attempt. BUT... can a troll really be tempered?” ~ TexasLynn
 
Yes, it was very good advice. But can a genuine troll really be tempered, probably not. To borrow probabilities from your own post, it is likely closer to 'practically never' than 'rarely'. But I think it might be worth a try. 
 
Obviously some are a lost cause. Their entire purpose is simply to be a pest. They either have nothing of substance to offer because it's beyond their capabilities or getting attention & annoying others satisfies some need for them. As long as they're accomplishing this, they're satisfied.
 
I will say, though, that I think some people engage in troll-like behaviors in part because it's easier than trying to engage in a constructive way. And, perhaps out of a sense of revenge. A way of getting back at ideological opponents who rely on a lot of snark or get too uncomfortably close to the truth at times.
 
Some of those people might be reachable. So, I would say it may be worth a try but isn't worth investing much time. Personally, I tend to just ignore them. That is, after all, the thing that grates on them most next to being banned. However, if this were my website; if I had something invested here, maybe I would find it is worth some effort & patience to look for the diamond in the rough. I've encountered a few in my years.
 
Speaking more broadly about how to reduce trolls & haters, many argue that the total anonymity of being online is why there is so much senseless vitriol. No doubt that plays a roll, but I think it has more to do with being behind a screen & not face to face. I'm not convinced that requiring real names/identities would dramatically cut back on trolls & haters. I say this because {though I haven't used Facebook in years}, I can say from my experiences and what I still hear from others is that there is no shortage of people with real names, real bios including where they went to school, where they work, pictures of their kids who will readily hurl the most vile of insults at people who say or believe things they disagree with...
 
As for dealing with them, it's a lot of maintenance but I think good old fashioned {human} moderating is the key to better social media forums. And I don't think they should be too liberal with the censoring/banning.
 
There are many things I don't like about it, but one thing I do like about the Disqus platform is that it allows you to block other users so you don't have to sift through their nonsense. Those who enjoy the garbage can continue to partake. It's an especially valuable feature for avoiding those trolls who like to carpet bomb a thread. So much clutter. Prohibiting multiple consecutive posts seems a good remedy, too.
 
There may be some undesirable characters around here but a handful of them is a vast improvement to what I'm used to dealing with. Hopefully Writer Beat will be able to maintain a better class of writers/commentators.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 5:01am
What exactly is a troll ?
 
Someone who simply insults and attacks people without posting real stuff himself ? Or is it one who continuously talks about the same subject and tries to convert others endlessly to a religion or a certain ideology ? Or one who comments on absolutely ever article just to show he's around and wants to be noticed, but his comments are more or less general stuff that doesn't allow another to even get an idea of what the guy thinks ?
 
Probably we all have something of a troll in us simply for the fact that we ARE on a public platform. But I'm glad that here at WB everyone can use the language he wants, and we all know when we're here that we either have to accept that or take refuge at a site where teacher says NO GO.
 
Or shut the whole digital shit down and forget about it ;-)
 
 
Koshersalaami Added Nov 15, 2018 - 7:24am
I haven’t been here long so I have a question about what it and what is not acceptable. 
 
Would the N word be censored? If so, why?
 
I certainly don’t plan to use it. Not remotely how I think. I personally think that minority vilification is intellectually invalid, preferring to look at what causes behaviors that lead to such conclusions - assuming that the behaviors are accurately described when they’re often just asserted or exaggerated way beyond truth. But the content of minority vilification here gets pretty extreme. 
 
That Jeff is considered the most offensive person here is quite frankly an embarrassment to the site. 
 
I’m serious about my N word question. If it would be censored, why would it be censored? My take on this place is that it would be censored based on rudeness but not based on content, and I think that’s bass ackwards. 
Koshersalaami Added Nov 15, 2018 - 7:26am
Sorry, what “is” and what is not acceptable. Is there an easy way to delete your own comments if you make an error so you can rewrite? Also, I find that I can’t copy text from comments, at least on an IPad, and that would be a really useful function. 
Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 8:12am
Kosh
 
Would the N word be censored?
 
You mean nigger or negro ? LMAO. This is PC shit. My wife is a negro and proud of it. Me too. And I don't want to tell you what the words mean that Africans use for us Whites, from nasara to toubab to jòn.
 
My wife laughs about that whole discussion :-)
George N Romey Added Nov 15, 2018 - 8:19am
Trolls are those that hurl personal insults with very little intellectual opinion.  Even when they do say something thoughtful its lost in all their bs.  Notice that person in question has never to my knowledge posted an article.  Why?  Because it takes time, effort and some brain matter to do so (at least anything beyond the 3 paragraph rants that seem to make their way to WB).  Far easier to attack people.
 
TexasLynn, Ryan is a troubled human being and at some point we should feel some level of compassion albeit he makes it hard to do so.  Mika on the other hand is just an everyday, ordinary asshole.  I suspect he's been that way all his life.  In my near 60 years on this Earth I've met a ton of them.  
Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 8:30am
George
 
LOL
 
I bet if you would have a beer with Jeff (he even mentioned that somewhere), you guys would have no problems in the end.
Koshersalaami Added Nov 15, 2018 - 8:34am
George,
”Notice that person in question has never to my knowledge posted an article.”
 
Jesus H. Christ. I went up the thread, found Jeff’s name, clicked on it, and found his article output. It isn’t frequent but it’s there. You couldn’t be bothered to take the damned minute to check before you accused him of something?
 
Seriously. You’re better than that. 
 
 
George N Romey Added Nov 15, 2018 - 8:36am
I hate to say this but after nearly 60 years I have zero desire to be around assholes.  I can't even fake it.  Its why I didn't last in my past two jobs. Working for an asshole and a bitch and I'd be like "go away and get out my face."  Assholes (and bitches, pardon my language) get their power from making others miserable.  They become really frustrated and angry when they see they aren't making an impact.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 8:38am
BTW:
 
You know why I defend Jeff ? There was this little thing. He's coming to Europe and likes Italy. He's open for new stuff to experience and live in. He was never complaining about how sad his life or the world are. 
 
I don't look at the language, but at some little things that people reveal in time.
 
And then....I can almost see the smirk of people behind the keyboard .... if you know what I mean. I guess Jeff is a lot more tolerant than many of the people here like to appear.
 
Some call me a do-gooder or a US hater. Ok, I can live with that. But these only never cared to read more carefully the whole I said. BTW: Opinions are subjective, and can never be a reason to judge a person as a whole.
 
Dino Manalis Added Nov 15, 2018 - 8:40am
 Jeff may be civilized, but chooses to disagree on some issues, that's normal.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 8:45am
?????
Steel Breeze Added Nov 15, 2018 - 9:40am
i get your meaning,however,i've never seen anything on social media of any real importance so it dont matter to me.....this is just sumthin to pass the time with mornin coffee.....
Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 9:46am
George
 
That's why I decided in 2001 NOT EVER to have a boss anymore.
FacePalm Added Nov 15, 2018 - 9:48am
Michael B-
I'd be glad to sit down and a have a beer with everyone here.  
 
Don't try it on the same day...you'll eventually be on the phone to Ralph O'Rourke(no relation to Beto, but often generates the same nausea).  Also, i gave it up Jan 17, 1994.  I found i tended to do and say incredibly stupid things with my beer muscles and beer goggles.
 
When i first got here to WB, he posted to my initial article.  I think i deleted one or 2 of his posts, but left the rest up until later; to the best of my recollection, i also deleted Bill H.  Both apparently were irritated that i was pointing out the fatal flaws democrats were making.  QUITE irritated.  i figured it was mostly because i was pointing out truths they didn't want to hear - or were afraid of hearing.
 
i reached out to Jeff initially, but when he rejected my overtures, decided to ignore him.  There has been one subsequent post of his i commented on, because it was funny, and complimented him.
 
Other than that, i just skip over his posts most of the time.  i'm getting old, and i don't care to waste what little time i might have left.  One of my favorite sayings is:
"If you ever find yourself in an argument with an idiot, the first thing to do is ensure your opponent is not similarly employed,"
 
or
 
"Never get into an argument with an idiot; they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
 
IME, those who seek attention don't really care what KIND of attention they get, just as long as they get it; it's oftentimes like Stockholm syndrome, in a way, or a woman who's grown used to getting a beating every now and then - they miss the adrenaline rush.  Couldn't tell you how many women - PRETTY ones, too - would cry on my shoulder about how badly they were being treated, and as soon as they healed up, off they'd go, right back to their abuser.  *shrug*
 
However, what has helped me over the years is a few tips from a lady who wrote an article entitled "What Shamu Taught Me About A Happy Marriage."  It was related to how tiny people train whales to do tricks.  A websearch will turn it up, if interested, or on request, i'll find it and post a link.
 
But as this entire thread has been devoted mostly to giving him attention, that's just feeding the energy he wants right to him.  Interesting comments, too, especially about how much attention this was getting as opposed to more worthwhile topics..."a chacun a son gout," i suppose("to each their own taste").
Jim Stoner Added Nov 15, 2018 - 10:49am
Talking about words:  I have to mention something I saw recently in a chat (not here)--it's my nominee for word of the year. 
"Wypipo". 
Say it out loud.  It's basically how an ebonic black person would say "white people", so it means whites as blacks see them.  It sounds/reads so African!  I love it. 
 
Jeff Mischka:  He's just part of the local flavor.  I like the fact one can dare to go out here and just say it.   
 
I do want to know if there's a way to go back and edit my comments; I guess not.  As with emails, though, it does pay to go back and review before hitting "Submit".  I am a bit of a spelling/grammar freak and it bothers me when the writing is incomprehensible.   So, yes, that would get under my skin, but what's the point?  I mean, literally. 
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 10:56am
First and foremost, thanks to all for the comments and observations…
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 10:57am
Michael B >> Ya' all do realize what a huge ego boost you are providing to trolls in general and one in particular?
 
Maybe, maybe not.  Trolls like to be fed (as in replied directly to).  This is more of persistent poking of a troll.  They hate that. :)
 
Michael B >> Truth be told, I'd be glad to sit down and a have a beer with everyone here.
 
Then you're a better man than I.
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 10:58am
Koshersalaami >> Personally, though I don’t have much use for the constantly screaming approach and don’t find it effective, I don’t think it’s anywhere near as bad as really blatant bigotry based on a series of obvious lies about an ethnic group or religion.
 
True... but my inclination is simply not to tolerate either; and apply each deficiency accordingly toward the character of the practitioner.
 
Koshersalaami >> Manners are apparently more of an issue here than slanderous content
 
I think Autumn leaves it up to us to call out each as we see fit.  Slanderous content is called out all the time.  This post calls out the other.
 
Koshersalaami >> I hope no one thinks I’m making a veiled reference to TexasLynn. He is not who I am referring to.
 
Nobody thought that... :)
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 10:58am
Flying J >> A troll is a trouble maker.  Not somebody who pisses you off.
 
Agreed... in the sense of being a trouble maker for the sake of being a trouble maker.
 
Don't my comments above make that clear?
 
Flying J >> I've read this comment three or four times.  I still don't get what is supposed to be wrong with it.  Should I translate it?
 
I appreciate the attempt... not everybody is fluent in asshole.
 
Flying J >> Number one, Lindsay Wheeler is the lyin'est son-of-a-bitch on this entire site. 
 
You got all of that from "Lyin Lindsay"?  I guess that's some of that "between the lines" stuff.
 
Flying J >> As a man who takes his Christianity seriously you should be absolutely disgusted with an insane apostate such as Lindsay. 
 
Have you seen me side with Lindsay (or with Ryan when he was here) on his "slanderous content"?
 
Where you not part of a recent thread where I was rebuked by Lindsay... "Well, the only thing is to kick back and watch America sink into a Brown Cesspool. The Rileys, the Cullens, the TexasLynns can't stand up for their own people!"
 
Simple reasoned dialog isn't good enough?  I've got to perform a Michka like screed to appease your sense of adequate disgust?  Sorry FJ... I may dabble in a profanity every now and then for effect, but frothing-at-the mouth obscenity laced tantrums are not my style.
 
Flying J >> Jeff is not the only person tired of hearing a vague vilification of, "the left."
 
I will admit that I do not shy away from applying the leftist label.  Unlike, some I find the label apt when describing a general stance held by most on the left.  Are there always exceptions on such stances?  Yes, just as there are about generalizations on the right.  It's the overall stance that is conveyed in the label.
 
As for vilification?  Many of the problems in this nation and the world IMO are caused by leftist ideals.  That's just a fact (of my opinion), just as it is a fact that you believe the opposite (problems caused by rightest ideals).
 
Flying J >> Y'all are sick in the head.  You claim that there is no truth or virtue to be found in people to the left of your own extreme politics.
 
OOOOKKKK...
 
I'm going to skip the rest of the "translation"... I'll concede there are bits and pieces of actually found in the Michka screed... but just as much not (and of FJ origin).
 
Flying J >> So find another comment if you want to illustrate that Michka is a troll.
 
I'm pretty good with just about any random comment you pull from the Michka archives... including this one.
 
Flying J >> That fucking Lindsay is damn troll if I ever met one.  Scares the shit outta me because he is more or less serious.
 
A wise man once said... "A troll is a trouble maker.  Not somebody who pisses you off."
 
Lindsay pisses you off because he holds views reprehensible to you.  If I'm understanding his views correctly (racist and anti-Semitic), I find them the same... but abstain from the emotional response.  He does not piss me off.
 
In a different manner, I find Opher Goodwin's general views (socialism, world government, radical environmentalism, rabid atheism) reprehensible as well.  I will debate (even heatedly) our differences... BUT... Opher Goodwin does no piss me off.  Opher Goodwin (and Lindsay) are not trolls.
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 10:59am
Thomas Napers >> I agree the Flying Junior.  Disagreement does not make one a troll.
 
As did I.
 
Thomas Napers >> Nor does the use of foul language and insults. 
 
Agreed.
 
Thomas Napers >> As it relates to this post, because you dedicated it to calling Michka a troll, you deserve every insult he dishes out. 
 
On this post?  Absolutely.  Minus the really obscene comments, I'm willing to give Michka a lot of leeway.  And especially on this post since he is the subject.
 
Thomas Napers >> However, he didn’t just dish out insults. He also highlighted the fact you’re a hypocrite and traitor for claiming to be an American and at the same time writing this: A Case for Secession
 
OK... you seem to agree with his assessment.  And you are both entitled to that opinion.  I don't know you that well Thomas, but Michka holding that opinion of me is a confirmation of what I believe.  The day imbecilic assholes agree with me on anything is the day I question those beliefs.
 
Thanks for the link to the article in question "A Case for Secession".  I stand by every word, and I stand by my love of country and the founding principles of the republic.  THAT post is all about saving what the founding fathers tried to give us currently slipping away.
 
I'll leave it to those whose wish to read it to decide.
 
Thomas Napers >> I wonder, what else have you written where Michka is justified in calling you a hypocrite and traitor?
 
I don't know Thomas... maybe you can research that.  And links are always helpful...
 
Thanks for the comment.
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 10:59am
SE >> Wow. This is really cool. And isn't it a somewhat bad sign that an article about ONE person gets more responses than many professionally written articles about worthy subjects ?
 
LOL... Jealous?
 
Or maybe... maybe the article about ONE person stuck a chord that needed struck?
 
SE >> This is like a meeting of bored old ladies complaining about people of their neighborhood at their daily 5 o'clock tea LOL
 
Or maybe it's a meeting of a bunch of guys fed up with one particular dog taking dumps in everybody's yard... LOL
 
SE >> ....from now on, ladies, I'm not into that anymore. I prefer the pub around the corner :-)
 
So, you say... but you keep coming back. :-) LOL
 
SE >> What exactly is a troll ?
 
And you're back... (and always welcome).
 
I've given the definition of troll as I used it and intended it for this post...
 
Here it is again...
 
To be clear, my definition of the word "troll" (as applied to this post and my general use) is a more classic definition; as in one who mainly desires to evoke an emotional response/reply.  With that being the main goal, they...
1) Often or mainly resort to little more than personal attacks
2) Use liberally emotional language and obscenity
3) Pay little heed to the subject of the post
 
SE >> Probably we all have something of a troll in us simply for the fact that we ARE on a public platform.
 
True dat... I, would probably make an excellent troll if I decided to go to the dark side going the sarcastic witty route rather than the Michaesque incoherent asshole route.
 
SE >> But I'm glad that here at WB everyone can use the language he wants,
 
Me too.
 
SE >> You know why I defend Jeff ? There was this little thing. He's coming to Europe and likes Italy. He's open for new stuff to experience and live in.
 
Good enough.  Personally?  Europe and Italy are welcome to him.  I don't want him anywhere near Texas.
 
Jeff also promised that he wouldn’t have time for WB when he moved to Europe.  One can only hope…
 
Do you know when (the date) this glorious riddance is to take place?
 
SE >> He was never complaining about how sad his life or the world are.
 
Fair enough... I've never heard him complain about his sad life... though I suspect he lives one from his demeanor.
 
SE >> I don't look at the language, but at some little things that people reveal in time.
 
Fair enough... I take a different approach and generally look at the whole package (big and little stuff).  Obscenity laced screeds are kinda revealing in my book.
 
SE >> And then....I can almost see the smirk of people behind the keyboard .... if you know what I mean. I guess Jeff is a lot more tolerant than many of the people here like to appear.
 
Tolerant?  Jeff?  OooooKKKKK... I don't see it... but you do... fair enough.
 
SE >> Opinions are subjective, and can never be a reason to judge a person as a whole.
 
Agreed... Jeff's left-wing opinions are not my problem with him.  It's him being an asshole and a troll (two separate things).
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 10:59am
James >> But I think it might be worth a try (tempering a troll).
 
Worth a try?  Sure.  What do you have to lose.  I don't blame Autumn for trying.
 
Not that I've been much help.  She offered her soothing words, the presented her carrot only for me to come up and poke the troll repeatedly with a stick.
 
I can't disagree with much of anything you said here... so thank you for the contribution.
 
The total control over your own threads is the one thing that allows me to participate on WB.  If not for that (if I couldn't remove Michka when he crosses that line)... I would move on.  One feature I would like would be the ability to ban someone from ever posting to your thread.
 
Some people here say they never have and never will delete a comment.  I can respect that.  I do not fall into that category, though I will give as much reasonable leeway as possible.
 
Great comment.
 
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 11:00am
Koshersalaami >> I haven’t been here long so I have a question about what it and what is not acceptable.
 
There is actually a page of rules which are pretty broad.  Can somebody link to it?  I don't have it.
 
Koshersalaami >> Would the N word be censored? If so, why? I’m serious about my N word question.
 
No... It's not (my opinion on the rules).
 
Koshersalaami >> That Jeff is considered the most offensive person here is quite frankly an embarrassment to the site.
 
Then you haven't seen his worst stuff.  I wouldn't call him offensive as much as abusive.
 
Koshersalaami >> Is there an easy way to delete your own comments if you make an error so you can rewrite?
 
Yes, you can do it from your profile/comments page.
 
Koshersalaami >> Also, I find that I can’t copy text from comments, at least on an IPad, and that would be a really useful function.
 
Ahhh... technically the best solution would be to... get a computer... :)
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 11:00am
George >> Trolls are those that hurl personal insults with very little intellectual opinion.
 
That is one key aspect of their character.
 
George >> Notice that person in question has never to my knowledge posted an article.  Why? 
 
Michka has posted articles but the time frame is many months.  Abusive comments are his trick and trade.
 
George >> Ryan is a troubled human being and at some point we should feel some level of compassion albeit he makes it hard to do so.
 
That seems to be a shared opinion.
 
George >> Mika on the other hand is just an everyday, ordinary asshole.  I suspect he's been that way all his life.
 
That seems to be a shared opinion.
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 11:00am
Dino >> Jeff may be civilized,
 
Dino?  Hello?  I'm with SE on this one... "?????"
 
The whole point of the article is that a troll (Jeff) can't be civilized.
 
Dino >> but chooses to disagree on some issues, that's normal.
 
"Normal" would be another word I wouldn't associate with Jeff.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 12:19pm
Hey Tex...
 
you're really cool, man. I answered to Dino's comment of
 
Jeff may be civilized, but chooses to disagree on some issues, that's normal.
 
with
 
???
 
Then, you replied that you agree. But you only cited and combined the points "Jeff may be civilized" and "?????" and this changes the context completely. You left out the rest of the sentence, which changes the whole thing.
 
My ??? did point to the fact that I thought that Dino just wrote something to be on the thread, not really following the whole thing.
 
In your interpretation it sounds as if I would agree on questioning Jeff's sanity, which is not the case. I merely wanted to point out with ??? that Dino's comment is a non-reflected intermission.
Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 12:23pm
But Tex...
 
I like that. You're a good fighter LOL
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 1:14pm
SE >> I merely wanted to point out with ??? that Dino's comment is a non-reflected intermission.
 
Point taken.  So I an corrected in that we don't agree... on Jeff's sanity (actually civility but I question his sanity also).
 
And we do agree on the Dino inspired non-reflected intermission.  All cleared up?
 
That said, I like Dino.  Every now and then he makes a brilliant point in a couple of sentences.  And every now and then you wonder if he read any of the post/comments.  This is one of the latter. :)
 
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 1:17pm
SE >> But Tex... I like that. You're a good fighter LOL
 
I don't fight often, but when I reach that point/decision... I leave nothing on the table.  I'm the kind of guy who would much rather kill a fly with a sledgehammer... as a warning to other flies. :)
Stone-Eater Added Nov 15, 2018 - 1:41pm
Tex
 
Hm. Not wise, really. I'd not try to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. But maybe in Texas any method is ok, even when it's obvious that it doesn't work ? Well, different countries different ideas LOL
 
But I think I'd have a good time in Texas. Not that I like empty flat countrysides covered by dust and sand, but I could go to a bar and say: Hi there. Then the guys look up and think: Who the fuck is that ? Then I just sit down at the bar and wait for people coming up and asking me: Where the fuck do you come from and whaddya doing here ?
 
Finally we'd end up playing pool and gettin' pissed until anytime AM and having a good time. I don't think that Texas is much different than Montana. It doesn't always to be politics. Sometimes it's good to just have a good time :-)
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 1:44pm
Michael B >> i reached out to Jeff initially, but when he rejected my overtures, decided to ignore him.
 
I had a similar experience... and ignore him for the most part.  I do poke him with a stick every now and then and beat the %$#@ out of him with it when I decide he needs it.  Like about 24 hours ago.
 
Michael B >> There has been one subsequent post of his i commented on, because it was funny, and complimented him.
 
That was a long, long time ago... (at least 6-9 months to be precise).
 
Michael B >> Other than that, i just skip over his posts most of the time.
 
I (and Autumn) suspect that dam near everybody skips over comments.  I'm sure a few will claim to read them as an extended kindness... but I'd be skeptical.
 
You can't skip over his posts/articles.  They are too few and far between.
 
Michale B >> IME, those who seek attention don't really care what KIND of attention they get, just as long as they get it
 
You may be right on this one... I may be wrong.  For me, it's just an educated guess.  Jeff M (IMO) is not a happy camper right now.  Good.
 
Michal B >> Interesting comments, too, especially about how much attention this was getting as opposed to more worthwhile topics..."a chacun a son gout," i suppose("to each their own taste").
 
This topic is discomforting for some.  I get that.  I take these comments to mean "Can't we all just get along" and pretend we're a big happy forum.
 
As I stated that's the idea when your ox isn't the one getting gored.  Yet the hysterics over Ryan Messano?  No correlation to this stuff what-so-ever...
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 1:44pm
Jim Stoner >> Jeff Mischka:  He's just part of the local flavor.  I like the fact one can dare to go out here and just say it.
 
OK... I'm with you. :)
 
I would counter (tongue in cheek) that just because you can create a %$#@ flavored jellybean, doesn't mean you should.
 
Jim Stoner >> I do want to know if there's a way to go back and edit my comments; I guess not. 
 
There is not... only delete them and repost them.  (I have done that if I catch it immediately after submitting).
 
No editing makes since, otherwise how would you properly quote someone or debate them if they can change what they said? 
 
Jim Stoner >> As with emails, though, it does pay to go back and review before hitting "Submit".  I am a bit of a spelling/grammar freak and it bothers me when the writing is incomprehensible.
 
I'm with you, but that takes time and we're always in a hurry.  I cringe at a lot of stuff I see (in my posts/comments) after the fact.
 
I generally try to use a word processor (Word) to give things a once over before I submit... but that's only good for certain things.
 
Another big problem is I can't proofread what I write... my mind fills in blanks and I see what I intended... not what I wrote.
 
Jim Stonger >> So, yes, that would get under my skin, but what's the point?  I mean, literally.
 
I may not be following your question.  What's the point of allowing the likes of Michka "get under my skin"?
 
He's an asshole and a troll... we all have our weaknesses and our limits.  In my defense, I think I've shown considerable restraint (minus the last cathartic 24 hours).  When this thread dies down... I'll go back to "ignore him" mode until I reach a point where I don't again...
George N Romey Added Nov 15, 2018 - 2:00pm
The thing with Mika (and others like him) is that he tries to be the spoiler in often good discussions.  So if for example we are discussing immigration in a mature, intelligent, logical fashion he has to make a smart ass comment claiming anyone that believes in preventing illegal immigration is a racist and a  horrible human being.  He does so in a childish manner that screams "I'm one of the cool kids too."
 
For those that take the time to write well crafted, well researched articles, even if you don't agree with their opinion(s) it's an insult.  Any moron can write in big letters "TEXAS LYNN IS A RACIST" or other such nonsense.  Rather than pose a counter argument they like to "attack" with their over the top,  all caps rant.  
 
We've already probably spent too much of our precious time discussing a total asshole.  I'm sure he's getting off on this big time.  Like I said he's that fat kid you remember from school.  The teacher is having a great class discussion and poses a question.  The fat kid goes nuts to be called on. When the teacher finally does the fat kid says something completely unrelated, irrelevant and insulting.  The teacher moans (his/her class discussion has just gone to the dogs) and the other kids are laughing.  The fat kid thinks he's just nailed it but is oblivious to the fact the other kids are laughing at him not with him.
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 2:04pm
SE >> Hm. Not wise, really. I'd not try to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. But maybe in Texas any method is ok, even when it's obvious that it doesn't work ? Well, different countries different ideas LOL
 
Hm... Have you ever tried it?  I promise you... the fly is dead, dead, dead.  And the sense of satisfaction?  You can't beat it.
 
Figuratively... it looks a lot like this post/thread. :P
 
SE >> But I think I'd have a good time in Texas.
 
Of course, you would...
 
SE >> Not that I like empty flat countrysides covered by dust and sand,
 
LMAO... spoken like a man who doesn't know anything about Texas.  Most people envision the depictions of TV and movies... just how accurate do you think that is?  It’s also like everybody in the south being “racist”.  Practically nobody in the south is racist any more than anywhere else (in the world).
 
Granted, I do have a couple of podunk (meaning insignificant) gas/oil wells on my property... but my part of Texas is rolling hills and forests and river bottoms/swamps.  It's a big state with a lot of different terrain.
 
SE >> ... wait for people coming up and asking me: Where the fuck do you come from and whaddya doing here ?
 
%$#@... you and Offer Goodwin! :) Do you know how diverse we are?  We wouldn't give you (or your accent) a second look.  I guess you could go out of your way to find a biker bar or something... but other than that?
 
Now... you want some attention in Texas?  Sit on that bar stool and read aloud any Jeff Michka comment... and you'll get it.
 
SE >> Finally we'd end up playing pool and gettin' pissed until anytime AM and having a good time.
 
But of that, I have no doubt.
 
SE >> I don't think that Texas is much different than Montana.
 
I don't know that much about Montana (I'm sure they're very nice people) but I would disagree off-hand simply because Texas is different from everywhere. :)
 
SE >> It doesn't always to be politics. Sometimes it's good to just have a good time :-)
 
True dat... :)
Jim Stoner Added Nov 15, 2018 - 2:43pm
TL:  Thanks for the responses.  
What I meant would get under my skin is if people wrote intentionally incomprehensible things to bug me.  That prompted my "what's the point? Literally".  Unfortunately, I was a little incoherent there, myself. 
 
Jellybeans:  When I took my kids to the Harry Potter thing  (the one in Florida) we bought them a package of special jellybeans.  (a riff on JellyBelly, I guess).  I think there was one that was snot-flavored, another that was dog shit flavor.  They got a great kick out of it,  though the commercial appeal is (or should be) limited.  Like, there was no temptation to be a repeat buyer. 
Jeff Michka Added Nov 15, 2018 - 3:49pm
CA needs to be broken up, one part becoming TraitorLynn Well, folks, ol TraitorLynn got his year long anger at frustration over "me" out wity this one.  Like in many times before, he just wants me to leave, even wondering here when I will go, because why would I want to bring this on the road.  You gotta wonder, and it really isn't clear, WHY TrairorLynn is soooo, angry, and he obviously is.  TraitorLynn is a low level narcissit.  He loves his crafted image of the smart, wise Xtain, not "awful and terrible" like ol Jeff.  And then there's Geeho R, the crying, whining failed elite he'll never be, absolutely sure I'm an asshole, confirmed by TraitorLynn.  One of TraitorLynn's "points" was I repeat thing often over several comments, and will again.  He resents being repeatedly reminded, AND REMINDING OTHERS, he is a rank hypocrite, not rightist hero.  Tratorlynn has, more than once, gone on and on about NFL players taking a knee in protest, but then published an article about his desire to break up the union like a modern confederate.  So let's see: On one hand, TraitoLynn wants people to believe he is a super patriot, full of hate and anger over football players dissing the national anthem, flag and the pledge, and how these player dis the military.  And yet, AMERIited State of White People, the Other, just that, the Other.  Well in my book, .'s hypocrisy.  Does it make TraitorLynn a hypocrite, but I'm sooo terrible and bad.  TraitorLynn goes on and on about him being Mr. & Mrs. IT, that all, including the site owner MUST Obey.  MUST Obey, and his irritation has been constantly shown when Autumn hasn't banned me.  Autumn must be "an enemy of the people."  Ol Geeho R, crying over his shattered career, always claims I've never written anything here, but seems he still has had no understanding of how this platform works.  Now, Geeho has cried and cried over the "fate" of him getting older, not having a "Geeho-class" job, and had people here dry his eyes, make offers of help. and ol Geeho never thanked any of those offerings to help, let alone follow up or thank them, and now according to Geeho, he's back making six-figures, but I wonder for how long.  So ol Geeho writes an article calling women that got out on the streets to protest were 'stupid' and how they were wasting time.  A 20 something coming up behind him will undoubtedly take his gig.  But Geeho's hate of me is that unlike others here, I didn't dry his little eyes, or obediently said "You're so right, Geeho."  Actually, a few times I did, but just got called "mika" and was told I had "better leave WB".  You might really wonder about someone  suposedly a brilliant wit, wonderful writer and family man, TraitorLynn would spend a year trying to get rid of me, then whine because I'm still here.  Yeah, he's a hypocrite, so maybe that's it. TraitorLynn, despite his moral high horse and Love of gawd, has said and written very personal and nasty lies about me, and cries if someone does the same to me, and yet...well, folks.  This is just supplying mr. Gaslight with gas for his lamp.  And Mr. IT knows precisely what I mean.
George N Romey Added Nov 15, 2018 - 4:06pm
Wow we've pissed him off now.  A long ranting paragraph with the screams of a lunatic.  Didn't even stop to break his rants up into paragraphs. So again he is being laughed at, not with.  Mika just doesn't get it.
Jeff Michka Added Nov 15, 2018 - 4:24pm
Uh huh, Geeho.  I'm soooooo angry, slamming fists on the table and stomping my feet.  Like Leroy, no paragraphs for you.  I'm "The paragraph nazi." I don't think you get it.  You, cowaed, still have to live with yourself, since, laughing as she heard "I'll have a job someday" your wife slammed the door on her way out.  You don't get I only have marginal concer over anything you or TraitorLynn and a few others have to say about me.  I've heard it all here.  Don't congratulate yourself, loser.  Will you cry to wsucram15 when the business that wasted it's time hiring an old man like you, when that kid takes your job?  LOL Oh, that's right you called her "stupid."
FacePalm Added Nov 15, 2018 - 5:35pm
In answer to an earlier request:
Posts here can't be easily edited.
i try to always proofread my posts, but still make occasional typos, which i find(naturally) after hitting the "submit" button.
If i catch them right away, here's what i do.
First, i highlight the whole post.
Next, i click on my icon and go to "Comments" on my profile.
Then i hit the red "X" to delete my last post.
Then i go back to the thread in question, and re-enter the text, make the corrections needed, then hit submit again.
 
Only way i know of to do this, and it's not fast.  It's just possible.
 
OTOH, if i DON'T catch the typos right away - or there's an intervening post in the interim - i just let it go.  Pretty certain no one posting here is always perfect in their proofreading, and since everyone knows the limitations of this site, most misspellings or typos are forgiven.
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 6:25pm
Jeff.  Thank you again for another "paragraph" of mostly gibberish.  It was a bit long and normally that's not a problem (since I don't have to read your crap), but since this is my thread, I had to inspect it for obscenity.  I'm pleased to announce that this comment met my liberal standard of acceptability.
 
I'm feeling generous... so I'll try to reply as best I can to your comment (this one time) like I do everyone else.
 
Here we go...
 
The Michka >> CA needs to be broken up, one part becoming TraitorLynn
 
I assume this is in reference to my post (linked to earlier by Thomas Napers), title "A Case for Secession" in which I advocate for the amicable and peaceful separation of the states.  It was written when a group in California was pushing for secession after Trumps election.  You see, when a southern state breaches the subject, it's nuts and traitorous, but when California did it... well... it was a natural and rational reaction to Trump's election.
 
I would encourage everybody to read the post for themselves and not take my, or Jeff's or Thomas' word for anything.
 
Now... how a part of CA is supposed to become me... I'm lost on that... maybe FJ can translate...
 
The Michka >> Well, folks, ol TraitorLynn got his year long anger at frustration over "me" out wity this one.  Like in many times before, he just wants me to leave, even wondering here when I will go, because why would I want to bring this on the road.
 
OK... this is tougher than I thought... gotta read between those lines...
 
I think I'm supposed to have been angry for a year (why a year) ... and it got it out "witty" or something like that?
 
Jeff thinks I want him to leave.  He's right.  WB would be a better forum without Jeff Michka; but then you could just fill in the blank there couldn't you.  ________ would be better off without Jeff Michka.
 
I do hope you leave Jeff... just as much as some of your apologists hoped Ryan would leave and for the same reasons.
 
The Michka >> You gotta wonder, and it really isn't clear, WHY TrairorLynn is soooo, angry, and he obviously is.
 
<sarcasm> Really, is it that obvious? </sarcasm>
 
In my defense, I will simply ask readers to make their own judgment (based on this post and history of posts/comments) who has the anger issues.
 
The Michka >> TraitorLynn is a low level narcissit.
 
Well, that's a new one.  I don't really take much offense to it since there is little to back it up (and it's coming from Jeff); if someone wants to chime in on the accusation... knock yourselves out.
 
Now... with that in mind, not too long ago I was accused of being a "humorless ass".  To THAT, I took great offense.  I just so happened to be one of the "funniest asses" I know.
 
The Michka >> He loves his crafted image of the smart, wise Xtain, not "awful and terrible" like ol Jeff. 
 
For the record... I was a slightly above average student in high school and college.  I'm learned my trade (Information Technology) well enough to make a decent living at it and still do.  I consider myself of average intelligence with the blessing of a simple bachelor’s degree from a medium sized college.  Then... 20+ years’ experience in my profession.
 
Wise?  No... many of the dumbass things I've done in my life beg to differ.  Did I learn from some of them... absolutely.  From all of them... LMAO... no... not really.
 
Christian?  Guilty as charged.  When I stand before God in judgment he will ask "What did you do with the life I gave you" and I will answer "I wasted it all... except for accepting your Son as my Lord and Saviour."
 
The Michka >> And then there's Geeho R... absolutely sure I'm an asshole, confirmed by TraitorLynn.
 
I can't speak for George.  I'm sure he's had his share of good and bad as have we all.  I wish him (and everybody on WB) success in all important aspects of their lives.
 
It is indeed George's opinion that Jeff Michka is an "asshole".  I agree; as do many, many others.  BUT Jeff, to your credit, there are a few on WB that don't.  We will not bother with a vote.
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 6:26pm
The Michka >> One of TraitorLynn's "points" was I repeat thing often over several comments, and will again.  He resents being repeatedly reminded, AND REMINDING OTHERS, he is a rank hypocrite, not rightist hero.
 
It's either that... ORRRRR... you're a one trick pony Michka, lacking the brain cells or ability to do anything new.
 
The Michka >> Tratorlynn has, more than once, gone on and on about NFL players taking a knee in protest
 
I did write an article on the subject (maybe two, but I don't think so)... though I'm sure I commented on others articles on the subject.  I guess, technically that equates to "gone one and one"...
 
I'm sure I've gone on and on and on and on... on a lot of things the mind of the Michka.
 
The Michka >> but then published an article about his desire to break up the union like a modern confederate. 
 
I did write the fore mentioned article.  I will note that it is not my wish that the Republic be broken up (as stated in the actual post), BUT that would be better than the direction we are headed now.  The word "confederate" never appears in the article.  It was inserted by Jeff's sick twisted mind as has happened with a lot of things.
 
The Michka >> So let's see: On one hand, TraitoLynn wants people to believe he is a super patriot
 
I am patriotic.  I believe the USA (despite her many faults and failures) has been the biggest source of liberty, freedom and prosperity the world has ever known.  And... as for all those failures... we are the worst of nations in the world... with the exception of all the rest. (to paraphrase Churchill on another subject).
 
The Michka >> full of hate and anger over football players dissing the national anthem, flag and the pledge, and how these player dis the military.
 
I do indeed believe that those who kneel disrespect our flag, anthem, pledge, country, and veterans; These protests are misguided in what they are trying to accomplish.  (I don't intend to go off on that tangent in this post).
 
The Michka >> And yet, AMERIited State of White People, the Other, just that, the Other.
 
In no post or comment in all of WB or the internet or ever... have I sought to create this, that or other thing of "White People".  If by my comments anyone here thinks I'm either racist or anti-Semitic; then you're as intellectually bankrupt (and stupid) as Jeff Michka.  (Excuse the bluntness there).
 
The Michka >> Well in my book, .'s hypocrisy.  Does it make TraitorLynn a hypocrite, but I'm sooo terrible and bad.
 
Out of curiosity, what color is the sky when you look up from your book?
 
The Michka >>  TraitorLynn goes on and on about him being Mr. & Mrs. IT.
 
I think I've mentioned it a few times in context within a post or two.  Much less than Opher being an educator and maybe as often as the engineers, and truck drivers and other professions on the forum.
 
I'm good enough to make a living at it.  I don't know what else I can say...
 
But... somehow... this little tidbit of information is one of the shiny objects Michka as latched on to.
 
You almost miss these little nuggets... but... I'm just a Mr. IT by the way, Jeff; not Mrs.  I've no hang-ups, misconceptions or identity crises on that matter.
 
Though... [tongue in cheek], I have briefly identified as a "young, petite, black female" to make the point that one should not put much stock in avatars.
TexasLynn Added Nov 15, 2018 - 6:26pm
The Michka >> that all, including the site owner MUST Obey.
 
One time... just before I wrote (or was it just after) A Writer Beat Fairy Tale; I asked Autumn to rein you in.  And I admit that the moral of A Writer Beat Fairy Tale was...
 
"There seemed to be no stopping the Michka from throwing poo whenever and wherever he liked... but then all the billy goats (Gruff and not) realized just how much more civil, and reasoned, and coherent, and peaceful comments sections where with half the trolls as before.  Then they reasoned that zero would be even better.  The Michka was driven off and the bridge known as reason, civility and coherence that lead to Writer Beat was used peaceably again.  And they all wrote and commented reasonably happily ever after."
 
Would Writer Beat be better without Jeff Michka... Yep.  I stand by that 100%.
 
The Michka >> MUST Obey, and his irritation has been constantly shown when Autumn hasn't banned me.
 
Constantly?  Really?  Got anything to back that up?
 
I do not envy Autumn and her job... dealing with trolls like you and troll pokers like me.
 
The Michka >> Autumn must be "an enemy of the people." 
 
Really?  Got anything to back that up?  Care to quote any disparaging quotes from me concerning Autumn?
 
Idiot.
 
The Michka >> I've never written anything here,
 
It's a stretch, but not too far off.
 
But let's be precise.  Your last post (as in an article) was March of this year (2018).  That nine months ago... and counting.   Since you have been here (September 2016), you article count is still in single digits (9)... yet you have well over 5000 comments.
 
Comments are the weapon and domain of the troll.
 
The Michka >> You might really wonder about someone [who is] suposedly a brilliant wit, wonderful writer and family man, TraitorLynn would spend a year trying to get rid of me
 
Why thank you Jeff, it's so good of you to notice my "brilliant" wit did you say?  And then my "wonderful" pros and dedication to family!
 
Why would I spend a year trying to get rid of you?
 
The answer is simple.  I haven't.  And I'm the narcissist...  I wrote one email to Autumn asking her to rein you in when you were particularly nasty (much, much worse than now) about a year ago... and that's it.
 
She didn’t, and I accepted her decision.  I never mentioned you sense, other than to put you in your place every now and then (via comments) ... and this... the second of two ass-whoopins you really, really needed.
 
The Michka >> This is just supplying mr. Gaslight with gas for his lamp.  And Mr. IT knows precisely what I mean.
 
That's news to me... it was torture trying to decipher your ramblings in this response.  But no, Michka, I have no idea what you mean...
 
Explain it... or don't... I don't give a crap.
 
The Michka >> TraitorLynn, ... has said and written very personal and nasty lies about me...
 
Nasty?  Yes.  Sometimes the truth isn't pretty.
 
Lies?  I stand by every word.  You are a vile and obscene person, Jeff Michka... you exude hate in troll-like fashion.
 
Off with you... there are plenty of bridges in Europe you can crawl under.  Unfortunately, I'm sure there is Internet as well... so do what you're gonna do...
Ken Added Nov 15, 2018 - 6:38pm
J - aside from political differences, this is why you and I disagree so often.  That comment is the very definition of a trolling comment.  It isn't trolling to you simply because it validates "your side".  As long as it is something that validates you you are ok with it.
 
let's break it down in another way
 
He begins by attempting to marginalize the person(s) he is about to attack.  An Alynskyite tactic
 
It is condescendingly rude - as were you in your response about it.  How often have you seen me go by "Kenny"?  He is intentionally trying to be insulting and while you guys didn't catch it "isn't worth a farthing" is a subtle way of the children's rhyme "Kenny isn't worth a penny".
 
It is intentionally inflammatory.
 
It asserts facts yet gives no evidence to back them up.  We simply are to assume that everything he says is factually correct - when in reality, little of it is.
 
When asked to give evidence of his assertions he simply moves on.
 
He frequently calls me a liar - yet when I link evidence to the comments he states are lies, he never responds, he simply moves on and attacks somewhere else.  As do others frequently.
 
I won't discuss my article here as that is off topic, simply to say you missed the point of the article.  Most of what they are attempting to investigate aren't even in their scope of allowable congressional checks and balances.
Jim Stoner Added Nov 15, 2018 - 6:53pm
I just read "A Case for Secession". 
I like the fact that you are thinking creatively of what could be, instead of simply what is. (That was the amazing thing about the collapse of the Soviet Union, the difficulty of thinking what is the unthinkable but just out of sight).   
The problem with your argument starts with  use of the word "secession", a very highly charged word.  Breakup of the US is nonsense, at least for the next 100 years or so.  If you are suggesting that everyone else has to separate from the US if Texas does, that's also nonsense.  As far as the US allowing TX to do it as a solo project, that's been put to sleep by what we refer to as the Civil War.   If the concept is changing the relationship of the states to the central government, some sort of new Federalism that is more like a confederation (not the CSA, though!), with a lot more autonomy for states, it's worth discussing. 
The CA thing is interesting, though it is going nowhere so far.  If the state presented a request to DC to break it into 2 or 3 or 4 pieces, approved within all the legislature and signed by the governor, and each of them looking for representation in the US Senate, would it be considered?  Can it be?   There is no precedent for an existing state to do that, though of course the territories were carved up at a (much earlier) stage of development.  I don't think it would pass any Congress that I can foresee.  Maybe after the Democrats stack the Supreme Court in 2023--look, TL, there's an argument I'd go for to facilitate it!
Jeff Michka Added Nov 15, 2018 - 6:56pm
Are you saying your fmily is a family of "Pros," TraitorLynn, and I know you want me to start calling you names, or maybe threats, and why change my topic "you're just a hypocrite, when that is contrary to your "brave Texan" personage and other self congratulatory BS you feed yourself.  With a family of "Pros," does that mean you stick out a Tenner$ and ask, "Now who will say wonderful things about me?" And they all say, simultaneously "Ten bucks ain't enough to say nice things about you.  I realize you want a knock down drag out fight, and that will bring me down to your level.  You've spent a lot of time (over a year) trying to get me to leave or be banned.  And ol Lyin Kenny has thrown his 2 cents in.  Kenny complains because when he lies, then later finds "evidence," it's usually questionable sources or broken links.  I along with others are suppose to chase Kenny's "Truths".  No way and why waste our time.  Don't want to be called a lair, Kenny?  Real simple....don't lie.  And if you think hiding behind Geezus buys you a pass, wrong, not with me.  It just makes you like TraitorLynn....a hypocrite Xtain.  Never see that around here, eh?  And TraitorLynn wants to be critical of "the number" of articles I've contributed.  Well, at least I don't try and get my articles to scroll off my recent list like TraitorLynn.  Gee, I'm just so unhappy because TraitorLynn doesn't approve of me.  Sad.
Ken Added Nov 15, 2018 - 7:02pm
As far as the US allowing TX to do it as a solo project, that's been put to sleep by what we refer to as the Civil War.
 
An aside from the article here and off on a tangent, but that is actually inaccurate.  TX was an independent country when it agreed to join the US.  It received several special dispensations for turning its sovereignty over.  One of which any time, at their discretion, they can leave or break themselves into up to 5 separate states.
Ken Added Nov 15, 2018 - 7:04pm
it's usually questionable sources or broken links
 
Prove it.  Show me a "broken link" I have put in.  Define "questionable source"?
 
And where have you ever backed up a single accusation with even a questionable source?
Jeff Michka Added Nov 15, 2018 - 9:12pm
Rereading comments, discover Tom Naper actually into the actual hypocrisy I've been talking about, before all the intellectual whizbangs here.  And I've tangled with Naper before, but he got over it and can clearly see TraitorLynn's hypocrisy.  Next?
Koshersalaami Added Nov 16, 2018 - 12:23am
I don't blame Jeff for whatever he says here for the simple reason that this is a hit piece. The title is Civilizing Trolls but it could just as easily be Jeff's a Putz.
Ken Added Nov 16, 2018 - 12:58am
The title is Civilizing Trolls but it could just as easily be Jeff's a Putz.
 
LOL, True, but that would be accurate as well...
FacePalm Added Nov 16, 2018 - 1:01am
KS-
Yep, like i was sayin' - it's like picking at a scab.  It won't heal right until you leave it alone.
James Added Nov 16, 2018 - 3:23am
@TexasLynn
You're welcome & thank you.
 
I agree, authors having control over their comment threads is a great feature. I also think it's great that WB doesn't get into the business of censoring content. I'm not squeamish about harsh language, but I respect that some people are so I generally avoid using it online. In my view, offensive terms, vulgar language, even insults in a forum isn't nearly as off-putting as numerous comments which are completely off-topic.
 
I'm glad to hear some have stated they will never delete a comment. It's something that crossed my mind when I first noticed the capability. I won't say I will never delete one under any circumstances, but I definitely don't intend to. I think it would have to be fairly extreme. I'm more inclined to ignore off-topic and/or trolling comments & urge others to do likewise lest a flame war just pollute the whole thread.
 
Make no mistake, I'm no saint. I've poked the bear & wallowed in the mud with trolls many a time, but I've come to realize it solves nothing, wastes too much time & seems to lower everyone's standards a bit. Social media & society in general needs a lot more civility. And, as the saying goes, "be the change you wish to see in the world". So that's what I'm trying to do. And no, it don't come easy.
Flying Junior Added Nov 16, 2018 - 3:39am
KS,
 
Deleting your own comments is easy.  You just go to your profile and click on, "comments."  You can easily delete any comment you ever made.
 
Jim Stoner,
 
Impressed by Wypipo?  I guess it is pretty funny.  We need more virtue signalling white guilt guys on the WB to counter balance all of the crazy Jew haters!  If you have instant streaming, you should watch Season I of, "Dear White People," on NetFlix.  It's great.  It takes place at a New England Ivy League College.  A black girl has a show on college radio of the same title.  The first few episodes are based on a huge scandal that took place at my own beloved UC SanDiego a few years ago called the, "Compton Cookout."  We didn't do that racist shit when I went there.  We didn't even have fraternities until 1983.
 
You want to really have some good times assuaging your white guilt, go to The Field Negro.  Maybe you already know of it.  There are resident trolls who sort of fuck the comment threads up.  But the Field is the best.
 
Welcome to the WB Jim.

Stone-Eater Added Nov 16, 2018 - 3:48am
FJ
 
Field Negro seems to be quite interesting :-)
The Burghal Hidage Added Nov 16, 2018 - 4:10am
We all go home or no one goes home.....if you want free speech there will be trolls. The key is being smart enough to determine who is who, or which is Mich :) Unlike some I do not use the delete button. If you have something stupid to say on one of my threads the stupidity is preserved for all time. No need to make the case against trolls...they will do it for you every time
The Burghal Hidage Added Nov 16, 2018 - 4:12am
There Autumn, a substantive comment. Does that qualify me for my post to go up again, or is there someone on your staff with the WaPo who can't bear my criticism?
Ken Added Nov 16, 2018 - 4:38am
I'm not squeamish about harsh language, but I respect that some people are
 
I don't think that people are squeamish about it, I think that most objecting to it prefer it not be used unless it furthers the conversation.  There is a difference there.
Doug Plumb Added Nov 16, 2018 - 5:20am
I think that some people don't like free speech as much as others. I suggest that we all pretend to like it because we should enjoy it while it lasts. Michka does make some good points. I don't care if he is a troll sometimes. I wouldn't dare censor anyone, that is a venture into the dark side under the belief that it cannot drag you completely under.
  As BH says, if you want free speech you are going to have to tolerate those whom you don't like. Its that simple and this thread has been a waste of time.
Ken Added Nov 16, 2018 - 5:39am
doug, you clearly don't understand what "free speech" means
 
We tolerate you, and most of your speech is ignorant, rude and racist.  But we actually don't have to.  Autumn could shut you down at any time and decide you are unwelcome here, yet she doesn't.  She allows you to continually dredge the bottom of the channel of humanity and allows us to tell you how ignorant you are.
 
The difference between you and a mischka is only that you aren't rude about your bias, otherwise you are one and the same.
Ken Added Nov 16, 2018 - 5:40am
and that may actually be offensive to mischka, as I probably shouldn't put you in the same category
Koshersalaami Added Nov 16, 2018 - 7:32am
"The stupidity is preserved for all time." That's the main reason I've rarely deleted and never here. Of course at some point you have enough evidence. 
 
Part of the conversation is predicated on the idea that minds can under the right circumstances be changed. I enter conversations with the assumption that that can happen to me at any point. I question the value of talking to people who don't enter conversations with that assumption. I'm not interested in conversations with Talking Billboards. I think the Talking Billboard approach is fundamentally cowardly and also fundamentally inequitable: You shouldn't have the opportunity to persuade anyone of anything if you’re not reciprocally willing to be persuaded.
George N Romey Added Nov 16, 2018 - 8:50am
Every time I see Mika responding I can't get that old Britney Spears song out of my mind, "Oops I did it again."
TexasLynn Added Nov 16, 2018 - 10:54am
Ken, Michka does attempt to marginalize people with just about every comment, it is practically the one tool in his toolbox.  Other than that, there isn't much there, there.
 
As for as ignoring requests for details or clarification... Michka's not alone on that one.  But understand that debate and discussion is not his goal here.  It's simply trolling... which means to get a heated response and that's it.
 
Thus... any amount of reason and evidence is wasted on him.
 
So, with that in mind, it's best to ignore him, knowing that everybody else is doing the same.  Delete him when he crosses the line.  Poke him with a stick (just for fun) every now and then; beat his ass with it (like this post) once or twice a year. :)
TexasLynn Added Nov 16, 2018 - 10:54am
Jim Stoner >> I just read "A Case for Secession".
 
Thank you for extending that courtesy.  That is article by which Michka dubs me "TraitorLynn".  So, judge for yourself.
 
You are right that the word "secession" is highly charged... but I made the decision to use it because it best defined what I was advocating for.
 
I don't want to rehash that whole post... but I will use your comment to clarify what I meant (so thank you for the opportunity).
 
Jim Stoner >> Breakup of the US is nonsense, at least for the next 100 years or so.
 
It is probable?  No.  Possible?  Yes.  (I think I said that in the post)
 
I think if it happens, the catalyst will have to be a non-Southern state... like California.  And they are nuts enough to do it. :)
 
Jim Stoner >> If you are suggesting that everyone else has to separate from the US if Texas does, that's also nonsense.
 
I'm not suggesting that.  I'm saying that I believe in self-determination and that states SHOULD be able to make that decision for themselves... not only as a matter of fairness... but as an unalienable right.
 
Jim Stoner >> As far as the US allowing TX to do it as a solo project, that's been put to sleep by what we refer to as the Civil War.
 
Yes, for the most part.  But pretty well anything two-thirds of the states agree too can be revisited and reversed.
 
Is it likely... no... possible... yes.  That's all I'm saying.
 
Jim Stoner >> If the concept is changing the relationship of the states to the central government, some sort of new Federalism that is more like a confederation (not the CSA, though!), with a lot more autonomy for states, it's worth discussing.
 
Absolutely.  While a confederation was NOT the intent of the founding fathers, state autonomy was.  Any return to the founding principles is worth discussing.
 
Jim Stoner >> The CA thing is interesting, though it is going nowhere so far.  If the state presented a request to DC to break it into 2 or 3 or 4 pieces...
 
To be clear, I'm aware of provisions and ideas that states can possibly break up into new states (within the Republic) ... but that is a separate issue, not addressed in that post.  That's not what I was advocating; but rather states (like CA) becoming its own autonomous nation.
 
Jim Stoner >> There is no precedent for an existing state to do that (split), though of course the territories were carved up at a (much earlier) stage of development. 
 
Didn't Virginia do that (Virginia and West Virginia) ... though granted it was because of the Civil War.
 
Jim Stoner >> I don't think it would pass any Congress that I can foresee. 
 
As things stand now, no.  But things can change quickly.  The attitude towards gay marriage for example.  I'm just saying put the subject objectively on the table and civilly consider it.
 
And one last point... I make it very clear in the article, that I advocate something resembling an amicable divorce in which various parties agree to go their separate ways.  Not another civil war... which many believe we are headed towards as things stand now.
 
Again... thank you for reading my post and for this opportunity to clarify.
TexasLynn Added Nov 16, 2018 - 10:55am
Jeff Michka >> Are you saying your fmily is a family of "Pros,"...
 
As in "professionals"?  No.
 
Let me be clear as to everything you know about my family.  NOTHING.
 
I haven't told you (or anybody on WB) anything about them.  So, anything you think you know was invented in your own sick little brain.
 
Jeff Michka >> And TraitorLynn wants to be critical of "the number" of articles I've contributed.
 
I simply point out that trolls like to comment; not write articles.  You like to comment, not write articles.
 
Jeff Michka >> Well, at least I don't try and get my articles to scroll off my recent list like TraitorLynn.
 
I know, right?  Remember when you actually went and “Liked” my article "A Case for Secession" (after it has rolled off the "recommended" list) so it would reappear.  Then... (and this is hilarious), you wrote on some other post "It's back..." thinking I'm ashamed of the post and don't want people to see it; being too moronic to realize that if that were the case I could just delete it.
 
Then... your little escapades got a few more people to read it and a few more insightful discussions from those people.  It was nice.  Kinda like Jim reading it above... due to this post.
 
The amazing thing is that YOU were THAT stupid and acted on that stupidity.  One would think you would have learned from that experience… BUT… Now I am left with zero doubt that you really do believe my volume of articles is to get others to scroll off... So, the really amazing thing is that YOU are STILL THAT stupid.
 
Jeff Michka >> Rereading comments, discover Tom Naper actually into the actual hypocrisy... Next?
 
So, two idiots... who (at least one of them) probably didn't read the article agree on something... OK...
 
About ten people on this thread agree you’re an asshole… Next?
TexasLynn Added Nov 16, 2018 - 10:55am
Koshersalaami >> I don't blame Jeff for whatever he says here for the simple reason that this is a hit piece.
 
You're 100% right... which is why I have given him his full say on this post.  And as long as he doesn't go the obscene route, will continue to do so.
 
I think there is more to the article than just Jeff... but the thread went the way it did.
 
I did try to steer it a bit earlier with...
 
"So, don't worry about that insignificant detail, look at these more important points of the post. 1) It's sad that Autumn has seen the situation reach a point where she thinks she needs to try and do the impossible, civilize a troll. 2) It's a given that there always will be trolls.  We can deal with them by exposing them, then ignoring them, deleting them when necessary, and occasionally... poking them with a stick."
 
... but a thread often has a will of its own... I'm OK with that.
 
Koshersalaami >> The title is Civilizing Trolls but it could just as easily be Jeff's a Putz.
 
Again... 100% correct, especially give the direction of the thread.
 
Koshersalaami >> I enter conversations with the assumption that that can happen to me at any point. I question the value of talking to people who don't enter conversations with that assumption.
 
That's a good approach.  And actually, my mind was once changed by WB... and concerning Michka.  I did think the likes of this troll should be banned.  Debate (specifically from Autumn) did convince me I was wrong.  He (and other trolls) should not be censured.  Exposed with proverbial ass-whoopins... is completely different.
TexasLynn Added Nov 16, 2018 - 10:55am
James >> I agree, authors having control over their comment threads is a great feature. I also think it's great that WB doesn't get into the business of censoring content.
 
Me too.
 
James >> I'm not squeamish about harsh language, but I respect that some people are so I generally avoid using it online.
 
I really don't consider myself that squeamish either.  And if I give Michka credit for anything, he's not near as vulgar and obscene as he has been in the past.  I do not, however, have any delusions that he is not capable of returning to that level.  I assume a couple missed medications and he's there.
 
And... I'm not beyond a few curse words myself.  I think Ryan chastised me for it once. :)
 
James >> I'm glad to hear some have stated they will never delete a comment. It's something that crossed my mind when I first noticed the capability. I won't say I will never delete one under any circumstances, but I definitely don't intend to.
 
Like I said, I respect the ideal.  There is a special place in heaven for those who achieve that standard... I will never see that place. :)
 
James >> I think it would have to be fairly extreme.
 
I wish I had saved some of the most egregious Michka comments.  I promise you... they would meet your standard.
 
James >> I'm more inclined to ignore off-topic and/or trolling comments & urge others to do likewise lest a flame war just pollute the whole thread.
 
You can try... but the best advice I ever got on WB was when one of my posts had been polluted and a reader (not involved in the war) told me, that I needed to clean that crap up as a service to the serious readers and commenters.  He was right and that's been my policy since.
 
James >> Make no mistake, I'm no saint. I've poked the bear & wallowed in the mud with trolls many a time, but I've come to realize it solves nothing...
 
Like I said, this (for me) is cathartic as much as anything.  It too will pass, and I'll be back to my old self.  I've probably a bit of pittance to do for this one.
TexasLynn Added Nov 16, 2018 - 10:56am
TBH >> We all go home or no one goes home.....if you want free speech there will be trolls... (There Autumn, a substantive comment.)
 
TBY!  Thank you for gracing my thread with your presence... even it it seems to be forced by Autumn's rules. :)
 
Again, I respect those of you that don't use the delete button for any reason.  I definitely leave stupidity up for all to see (this thread being a perfect example).  Obscenity to a certain level... no.  That's my decision and I hope it can be respected as well.
 
TBH >> No need to make the case against trolls...they will do it for you every time
 
True Dat...
Koshersalaami Added Nov 16, 2018 - 11:39am
Secession?
I think it's possible. Unfortunately, I think a lot of what would lead us there comes from successful Russian internet interference. They start memes and rumors that get taken up, like most of what¡s been said about George Soros. 
 
The issue is that the country is not running remotely remotely according to the will of the majority. California could leave, probably with Hawaii, but that would exacerbate the problem terribly, leaving underrepresented Democrats way underrepresented in what's left of the US. That means other states would look to join California. Then we'd be looking at the United Blue States and the United Red States. 
TexasLynn Added Nov 16, 2018 - 1:01pm
We seem to agree and not... :)
 
Koshersalaami >> Then we'd be looking at the United Blue States and the United Red States.
 
It's just a divorce due to "irreconcilable differences".  Split the assets, figure out where the kids (smaller states) go and wish each other luck... Given a little time, maybe we can even mean it. :)
 
We're headed there anyway... so why not do it amicably?  We can respect each other and maybe eventually be friends again. :)  (as stated in the post)
 
Koshersalaami >> Secession?  I think it's possible.
 
As do I, but I don't think it's such a bad thing. 
 
Koshersalaami >> Unfortunately, I think a lot of what would lead us there comes from successful Russian internet interference. They start memes and rumors that get taken up, like most of what¡s been said about George Soros.
 
OK... here we disagree... which is understandable.  The Russian influence/interference IMO is severely overestimated as is likely that of Soros.  Still if either is spending money and resources to undermine anything... it should be exposed. 
 
Was there a connection between Trump campaign and Russians?  Is Sorros, through contributions to various organizations, funding the caravan of Central Americans through Mexido?
 
Valid questions.  BUT, the truth isn't available and if it were it's un-findable in the haystack of propaganda that now represents itself as news.
 
Truth and exposure was once the job of journalism... not anymore.
 
Koshersalaami >> The issue is that the country is not running remotely according to the will of the majority.
 
Depends on the definition of majority.  Majority of voters?  Majority of citizens?  Majority of residents?  Then there is the pesky issue of the republican (small r not the party) form of government instituted to protect the rights of minorities (as in groups not races) from the majority.
 
The "will of the majority" is three wolves and a sheep deciding on what's for supper; which is why our founding fathers chose a republic over a democracy.
 
Koshersalaami >> California could leave, probably with Hawaii, but that would exacerbate the problem terribly, leaving underrepresented Democrats way underrepresented in what's left of the US. That means other states would look to join California.
 
Yes!  Or group together as yet another nation!  Determine their destiny for themselves.
 
I don't categorize this (being underrepresented) as a problem but rather as a catalyst towards what needs to happen.  In the end you probably end up with four or five separate, more culturally homogeneous nations.  Good.
 
The flip side applies to Texas and Republicans.  Read the post, if you haven't.
 
See?  Is discussing secession in these terms all that bad (or even traitorous)?  For the civilized and sane among us… of course not.  But you two lefties (Kosher and Jim) need to be careful; there be trolls about. :)
 
"Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the Michka.  "How dare you use [the bridge of] reason, civility and coherence!... Now, I'm coming to gobble you up with poor formatting, faulty logic, vulgar name calling, and personal attacks." -- excerpt from A Writer Beat Fairy Tale

Thanks for your opinions and insights on the subject…
 
Stone-Eater Added Nov 16, 2018 - 2:10pm
Holy fucking shit. Still after Jeff ?
 
Actually I would prefer Texas to leave the US as I would like to see that states like Oregon and South Carolina are separate republics. Why...apart from the fact that Oregons and Carolinians are in my view people from a completely different background ?
 
Because - divide and rule. That way the US would stop to pester the rest of the world as being "one nation under god" and stop its hegemony.
 
Then it would be n nations under whatever. Closer to the "truth" :-)
The Burghal Hidage Added Nov 16, 2018 - 2:11pm
That wasnt personal at you Tex.  Trying to make a statement on another matter. Sorry for splashing your thread.
 
There are a few "contributors" on here whose sole purpose seems only to be provocateurs. Trolls is just easier to spell :)
TexasLynn Added Nov 16, 2018 - 3:30pm
SE >> Still after Jeff ?
 
The thread is cooling down... we'll be done soon enough.  Now, I'm just kinda having fun with it and rehashing the "Secession" post, Jeff thinks I'm scared to death of.
 
39 lashes for the Michka... just a few more to go...
 
SE >> Actually I would prefer Texas to leave the US as I would like to see that states like Oregon and South Carolina are separate republics.
 
See... agreement.  You "traitors" are popping up all over the place.
 
Texas?  California?  The North East or West?  It doesn't matter who goes first... any one could be the catalyst needed.
 
SE >> Apart from the fact that Oregons and Carolinians are in my view people from a completely different background?
 
Yes... cultural irreconcilable differences.  They could join California, join Canada or make a go of it on their own... best of luck to them.
 
SE >> Because - divide and rule. That way the US would stop to pester the rest of the world as being "one nation under god" and stop its hegemony.
 
Exactly ... the Republic of Texas could take over that particular function. :)
 
And the Peoples Republic of California and the Peoples Republic of the North East could finally have that kumbaya socialist meeting of the minds with the European Union.
 
In my original post I point out that the left should support this more than anybody... Just think, jettison Texas and a few other troublemakers and you instantly achieve within your new Utopian nation: 1) Total gun control and confiscation 2) Medicare of All 3) Total amnesty of all illegal aliens 4) Anybody and his dog voting in any election 5) Free college  6) Basic Universal Income  7) Minimum wage of 15 no 20 no 50 dollars an hour... the possibilities are endless.
 
Then there will only be poor old Texas (and those states who choose to join her) and Britain (after Brexit) against the world!  I like those odds. :)
 
SE >> Then it would be n nations under whatever. Closer to the "truth" :-)
 
So you liberal Europeans should really take another look at this proposal... don't you think.
TexasLynn Added Nov 16, 2018 - 3:33pm
TBH >> That wasnt personal at you Tex.  Trying to make a statement on another matter. Sorry for splashing your thread.
 
No, no, no; of course not... I knew exactly what you were doing... a perfect point made in perfect Doomsday Book fashion. :P
 
My retort (and hurt feelings) was tongue in cheek.
 
TBH >> There are a few "contributors" on here whose sole purpose seems only to be provocateurs. Trolls is just easier to spell :)
 
There will always be trolls; that's clear.  We each deal with them as we see fit.  We're almost done here....
Morgoth Added Nov 16, 2018 - 4:41pm
Jeff M. and I share a loathing of Nazis.  That’s good enough for me... ;)
 
Jeff is fine with me.  How he gets his point across is his business, not mine.  
 
I admit it to being rather crass on occasion myself.  I know that some of you may find that shocking.  :D
 
I'm generally more free on the stuff I write.  If a poster has a rules than I try and follow them, my only request is that you let people know what they are before arbitrarily deleting.
Jeff Michka Added Nov 16, 2018 - 6:37pm
TraitorLynn still wears a "traitor's crown" for being a neoconfederate, but he fools righists by trying to be "rightist relevant" playing a super patriot crowd, since being all civil war all the time gets a bit...silly.  And TraitorLynn's umbrage at the NFL players taking a knee in protest required TraitorLynn to embrace a "patriot' view.  Soooo upset over the flag, pledge AND military of the country he wants broken up, pee'd al over by "those people" his Show needed an outing.  Hypocrite.
George N Romey Added Nov 16, 2018 - 7:14pm
Oops, I did it again.
James Added Nov 17, 2018 - 12:37am
@Ken
I've met people who don't want any exposure to vulgar language at all and believe it shouldn't be allowed in social media. Some frame their reasoning as a protection for young eyes. I was using this more extreme example to illustrate the spectrum. I think most people fall into the category you describe. And yes, there is a difference between flippantly using obscenities or offensive words vs. using them for emphasis to further a discussion.
 
@TexasLynn
“but the best advice I ever got on WB was when one of my posts had been polluted and a reader (not involved in the war) told me, that I needed to clean that crap up as a service to the serious readers and commenters. He was right and that's been my policy since.”
 
Interesting that you should mention that. As far as I'm concerned, other than threats of violence perhaps, that's about the only reason I can justify for deleting comments. When a troll {or bot at some sites} are cluttering up a comment thread with numerous irrelevant, off-topic drivel and it's distracting enough to impede discussion. I actually had that in mind in my previous post as to just what an "extreme" circumstance would be.
 
BTW, that's why I really like the block feature some sites use. If you want to look at the garbage you can, but with a click one can choose not to ever see it again. And, I should add, I'm reluctant to use that feature as well. Only when it seems truly warranted. At sites which have that feature I see a lot of folks reply 'blocked for [insert bogus reason here]' to on-topic comments which simply aren't politically correct {or politically convenient}. Their choice, their loss.
Jim Stoner Added Nov 17, 2018 - 12:57am
Texas Lynn:  Thanks for your indulgence with your very lucid responses to my reaction to it, which I guess was a bit harsh.  You are absolutely right that West Virginia was carved out of an existing state, in extremis.  I'm amazed I forgot that. 
I have seen before the Texas secession talk, and the reaction of those who say, "good riddance".  It's tempting--Texans tend to have an attitude which drives other Americans crazy--but I am very encouraged by the Beto phenomenon, which suggests things are not as bad as they seem (like, when they re-elect Greg Abbott, which happened at the same time).   Perhaps there is hope for assimilation yet--something you probably don't want. 
Actually, one of my good friends here in New Mexico (someone who knows the governor-elect) is trying to make a case to her for vastly increased autonomy (he used to call it "NewMexit" but backed off--that's good, because generally the Brexit brand is a bad one).  
 
Flying Junior--I did see the movie "Dear White People", but I'm trying not to get too Netflixed--life is too short.  I am hardly plagued with white male guilt normally; maybe because I am so much not what the standard view of my age, gender and ethnic makeup would suggest I am.  No, really. Don't worry, I'm not going to be any more tempted to use 'wypipo' than I am 'nigga'--I'm not worthy.  I just liked the coinage, thought it was clever and inspired. 
Doug Plumb Added Nov 17, 2018 - 3:59am
Much of what we see on WB is what J Ralston Saul would describe as a true democracy, and its nature cannot change. Saul is a great contemporary philosopher who is probably only known to most Canadians as the one who walked behind his wife who was a governer general of Canada charged with maintaining the Common law as a (mostly) vestigal position. He outshines her by a long shot.
Flying Junior Added Nov 17, 2018 - 4:15am
And the Peoples Republic of California and the Peoples Republic of the North East could finally have that kumbaya socialist meeting of the minds with the European Union.
 
Bite your tongue, vile miscreant!  I am a loyal American first!  It's all y'all that are losing your way.  I mean, seriously.  Anyone who would vilify California and New York is automatically on probation.  Are you fucking twelve years old?  Where were you on September 11th, 2001?  You can't seriously claim to be an American patriot.  Where did you guys go wrong?  Civics 101.  I guess it's just a joke with you.  It's probably for the best.  To take your ridiculous politics seriously would be no laughing matter.










TexasLynn Added Nov 17, 2018 - 11:47am
Jim S >> Thanks for your indulgence with your very lucid responses to my reaction to it, which I guess was a bit harsh.
 
Harsh?  Not really.  You had disagreements and articulated them.  As long as they are intellectually honest (and not meant to be incendiary) I'm interested in hearing and discussing what you have to say.
 
Jim S >> I have seen before the Texas secession talk,
 
Of all the states you hear that from, Texas is probably number one... though we're not alone and it's not just a "right-wing" thing, since it crops up in the likes of California every now and then.
 
When it comes from Texas, it's spun as racism... when it comes from California, it's spun as a natural and rational reaction to Trump.
 
Jim S >> and the reaction of those who say, "good riddance".  It's tempting--Texans tend to have an attitude which drives other Americans crazy
 
I would imagine so considering how Texas is one of the last bastions preventing a blue dominance of the nation.  It is the hope of many of us that you guys on the left realize that you can have everything you want if you'll just cut us loose.
 
That reaction is the exact same reaction we Texans have when California secession is mentioned.
 
Jim S >> but I am very encouraged by the Beto phenomenon, which suggests things are not as bad as they seem (like, when they re-elect Greg Abbott, which happened at the same time).
 
Outspend your opponent (even an incumbent) two to one; not to mention millions in free national campaign ads... you're bound to make a showing.  I will admit that it was closer than I expected.  But the left can't afford to do that every time.
 
Jim S >> Perhaps there is hope for assimilation yet--something you probably don't want.
 
If you read much of what I write, I'm not very optimistic for the survival of the nation/republic.  In my opinion, we (western civilization) are in our death throws.  We are Rome... all over again.  It is the life-cycle of any republic.
 
So... towards those ends... assimilation is inevitable.  Secession and/or returning to the ideals of the founding fathers would only delay the inevitable.
TexasLynn Added Nov 17, 2018 - 11:49am
Flying J >> Bite your tongue, vile miscreant!  I am a loyal American first!...
 
As I stated to Jim above...
 
"You had disagreements and articulated them.  As long as they are intellectually honest (and not meant to be incendiary) I'm interested in hearing and discussing what you have to say."
 
Enough said...
Tamara Wilhite Added Nov 21, 2018 - 3:09pm
I can't tell if her "your comments are often logical" was part of a praise sandwich to minimize the pain of a hammer coming down or unfair false equivalence to try to minimize the severity of the troll's actions because it is considered "immoral" to judge.
Ryan Messano Added Nov 24, 2018 - 12:20pm
Great article, though it would be nice if you, Texas, would simply adopt the virtues of the Founders, minus the minority favoring slavery.  I realize my views appear radical, but I’d ask when did real Christianity not appear radical?
 
I disagree with Michka being your troll.  Pretty sure he’s mine.   Other than that, the article was hilarious.
The Burghal Hidage Added Nov 25, 2018 - 12:29am
Damn it Tex! It was your article! That was the dog whistle that brought Ryan back to us! 
TexasLynn Added Nov 25, 2018 - 9:28am
TW >> part of a praise sandwich or false equivalence...
Giving benefit of the doubt... praise sandwich.
TexasLynn Added Nov 25, 2018 - 10:03am
Ryan >> Great article, though it would be nice if you, Texas, would simply adopt the virtues of the Founders, minus the minority favoring slavery.
 
I'm not following you on this one, Ryan.  I'm terrible at reading between the lines, if you could be a bit more specific...
 
I will admit I constantly fall short of the virtues of Christ (as my example).  So, I suspect I equally fail with a few of the founding principles.
 
Ryan >> I realize my views appear radical, but I’d ask when did real Christianity not appear radical?
 
Very good point.  Christ was radical.  So radical, He was murdered by the powers that be (Jews and Gentiles).
 
You and I disagree on a few issues, one in particular being how we approach advocating with the world.
 
But... we're in agreement on a few as well.  Christ as Lord and Savior, being an example.
 
Ryan >> I disagree with Michka being your troll.  Pretty sure he’s mine.   Other than that, the article was hilarious.
 
I do take exception to that… but let’s not biker and argue about who’s troll is who’s… :)
 
Glad you enjoyed the article none the less.
TexasLynn Added Nov 25, 2018 - 10:03am
TBH >> Damn it Tex! It was your article! That was the dog whistle that brought Ryan back to us!
 
You think? :)  If I had anything to do with it, I was (at best) just a tool of karma.  So… "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war". :)
The Burghal Hidage Added Nov 25, 2018 - 11:19am
LOL :)
Mustafa Kemal Added Nov 28, 2018 - 1:17am
I come from a long distinguished line of trolls.

Some of us are not civilizable.
 
Mustafa
Morgoth Added Nov 28, 2018 - 6:53am
LOL
The Burghal Hidage Added Nov 28, 2018 - 5:37pm
that should be Must-ang, then :)
Mustafa Kemal Added Nov 29, 2018 - 1:58am
"But, trolls and idiots (often redundant) are the price that must be paid for a wide-open venue."
 
That sounds mighty generous TexasLynn, but I think disingenuous;
 
I think you have a thing for trolls
 
-in much the same way that many reasonable and good people here on WB have a thing for idiots. 
 
Mustafa ang

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