Theft From the American People

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Update to those whom may first be joining in the discussion.  It appears Jeffrey Kelly, the person whom was the impetuous for the writing of this article has CHANGED his username.


He now goes by the moniker of "Morgoth".


What makes this noteworthy, one of the final postings I made in his article was to inform him I created a spreadsheet that included date & time stamps for his postings and I was forwarding it to the appropriate authorities.  Clearly We The People were paying him, WHILE on the job to argue on the "interwebs". And why I firmly stand behind my position gov't employees MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE.



Jeffrey Kelly and I got into a discussion about voting and the conversation evolved into all rights secured by the Constitution. Various replies went back and forth with some very good points made by various people.


Should those whom collect public services, in some form or other be allowed to vote?




There, I said it. Call me all the names you like. Sticks and Stones.



Jeffrey claims he has a disabled child and receives SSI payments. I asked the simple question.


How much have you and your wife paid into the system?”


He spends thousands of hours arguing on the interwebs while I work 60 to 70 hours a week, getting my first day off today after 15 days and I live paycheck to paycheck.


I have a coworker who came her with family from Russia and she's going “part time” because she no longer is eligible for the NYS, funded in full, health insurance for her two children (from different fathers). DESPITE the fact our company offers health insurance AND pays two-thirds of it for us.


She learned (my coworker), it's easier to be lazy and vote herself benefits that steal my labor to support the family she chose to have!!!


This is the impression most hardworking Americans understand and see:


Woman demands someone take care of her 15 children.


...SOMEONE needs to pay for all my children...”



Tell me again how lowlife that do these things to themselves somehow becomes MY RESPONSIBILITY!


And tell me again how it's not pure and simple THEFT!






Ryan Messano Added Nov 30, 2018 - 12:13pm
Liberals are lazy and uninformed. Jeffrey is no exception.  They compensate for their lack of intellect, which is a common trait of the lazy, as ‘Genius is an Infinite capacity for taking pains’, with impudent and belligerent pride.
They don’t know what they don’t know, and will force their stupid and nonsensical ideas down the throat of a protesting society by banding together with fellow ignoramuses.   There are at least 22 liberals and RINOS on WB, and their combined corruption and ignorance makes it very tough for the truth to be heard and accepted.  Until you put them in their place, they will constantly, like Jeffrey, launch impertinent attacks.  Now, these loons are contenting themselves with calling me a loon, and imitating Athens, giving me an ostracism.  Lol.   Good luck with that.
Dave Volek Added Nov 30, 2018 - 12:27pm
From what I can see, the American welfare is a mess!
30 years ago, social assistance in Canada was a hot political topic. One reason was that it was a little too easy to get on social assistance.
The provinces are responsible for social assistance delivery. Over the years, most of them have refined their programs such that they are much better at finding the truly needy or distressed families and allocating resources in those directions. Most of the people I know on welfare are physically or psychologically handicapped--and I would not want to wish them on any employer. Nearly all able-bodied Canadians would prefer to take on a full-time minimum-wage job than go on social assistance.
So should we blame the ideology behind social assistance? Or should we blame how these programs are designed and managed, which then leads to how legislation is created?  
George N Romey Added Nov 30, 2018 - 12:32pm
The division line should be a disability that impairs someone from conducting a full life, like work.  Society should have compassion for those afflicted to the point they can't provide for themselves, or those that must take care of such an individual.  Particularly a society as rich as the USA.
Should they have the ability to vote?  Again, yes if they have a disability for which impairs them and they cannot control. 
Mismanagement of programs should mean the end to programs. It should be that programs are forced to be accountable.
Gerrilea Added Nov 30, 2018 - 12:35pm
Dave V--- I have no problem helping those in need, at least temporarily.  Sometimes life can get out of hand and you find yourself in a place you never could have imagined.
How they are designed and managed needs to be addressed.
If you have more children than you can afford, give them in the the extreme example of that lady having 15 children.  Or if you don't want to give them up, sterilization.  Or if you don't want that....don't ask for help.
We have to stop believing we can save the entire world.  I'd rather show the world how to save itself. 
Ryan Messano Added Nov 30, 2018 - 12:39pm
Further, we didn’t have an income tax until 1913 and the 16th Amendment.
That needs to be repealed.  It’s not the governments job to do welfare or health care. The churches and the wealthy need to do their jobs and stop slacking off!
Gerrilea Added Nov 30, 2018 - 12:41pm
George, I'd agree up to a point.  You admitted the "counselor" you had told you to apply for SSI because you couldn't find a job.  That's the problem with all these "free trade agreements" and "open borders".  The Democrats (in collusion with the Republicans) created this mess in the first place and then "offer" their "solution"...enslavement to the almighty state.
Families used to take care of each other, Religious organizations filled in the blanks as well.   If your own family won't help, why must the State?
We've been thoroughly divided.
FacePalm Added Nov 30, 2018 - 1:11pm
Americans once understood this principle extremely well, because they studied the Constitution and made certain to send ONLY people to Congress who UNDERSTOOD that the powers delegated to general government actors are FEW and DEFINED.
Davy Crockett learns a Constitutional Lesson.
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents...”  
  —James Madison
"I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for public charity, ...[it] would be contrary to the letter and the spirit of the Constitution and subversive to the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded."
-- Franklin Pierce(1804-1869) U.S. President
Source: 1854, he vetoed a bill to help the mentally ill
"I feel obliged to withhold my approval of the plan to indulge in benevolent and charitable sentiment through the appropriation of public funds...I find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution.
-- Grover Cleveland(1837-1908) 22nd & 24th US President
Source: In 1887 when vetoing an appropriation to help drought-stricken counties in Texas
"The constitutionality and propriety of the Federal Government assuming to enter into a novel and vast field of legislation, namely, that of providing for the care and support of all those … who by any form of calamity become fit objects of public philanthropy. ... I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for making the Federal Government the great almoner of public charity throughout the United States. To do so would, in my judgment, be contrary to the letter and spirit of the Constitution and subversive of the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded."
-- Franklin Pierce(1804-1869) U.S. President
Source: May 3, 1854, President vetoed a bill
"To the extent that these [New Deal policies] developed, they were tortured interpretations of a document [the Constitution] intended to prevent them."
-- Rexford Tugwell(1891-1979) American agricultural economist, served in FDR's administration, one of the chief intellectual contributors to the New Deal, director of the New York City Planning Commission, Governor of Puerto Rico, and a professor at various universities.  1968
Source: quoted by Roger Pilon, Restoring Constitutional Government, CATO’S LETTER #9, p. 3, published by the Cato Institute (1995).
"In “A jury’s duty” (11/8) by Mike Romano, John Junker asserts that juries have the right to nullify laws in principle but should not use this right in practice. Would he then be willing to give up the rights of free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, freedom to organize a labor union, abolition of slavery in the North, and the repeal of alcohol prohibition—all of which were given to us by juries who put the principle of nullification into practice? Without jury nullification no systematic veto exists for the people and tyranny ensues."
-- Patricia Michl Sumner
Source: November 29, 1995, Necessary nullification, letter to the Seattle Weekly
Dino Manalis Added Nov 30, 2018 - 1:24pm
 All citizens should vote, whatever their monetary condition.
Ken Added Nov 30, 2018 - 1:47pm
It is morally wrong to not have some skin in the game and be allowed to vote.  48% of the country pay no federal income tax.  Many of those actually get money back from the government.  Of course they are going to vote for the folks that will keep giving them stuff.
Citizens have a responsibility to support their country, not just to leech off of it.  Everyone should pay some amount of tax, even if it is only a few dollars.
If you pay no tax, you should have no right to vote
George N Romey Added Nov 30, 2018 - 2:20pm
Gerrilea, some families do not have the resources.  In fact family members aren't in much better financial shape.  I can testify for a fact that religious private charities are overrun.  Again, I'm talking about the truly vulnerable.  
As far as paying tax.  Even in this alleged great job market most jobs being created are low wage jobs.  This has been the trend since Bush.  You can't get blood from a stone.  On the other hand are the rich that can hire a fleet of attorneys and CPAs to find legal ways to avoid paying taxes.  So the middle, particularly the upper middle income class is getting squeezed.
People aren't taking low wage jobs on the pretense they will pay less tax.  That's nothing more than a nonsense talking line from Fox News.
Neither Party has an answered to get more people in better paying jobs.  The Democrats think if everyone gets a college degree that somehow all Americans will be making the big bucks.  The Republicans think its just a matter of "applying for one of those good jobs." Both are clueless and to that point no wonder there's so much anger in this country.  Do you think Chelsea Clinton had to spend her mornings combing through the job postings on LinkedIn or Indeed praying against all odds she might get called for an interview.
My church is located in one of the most affluent areas of Miami. During my tough time I reached out to the Church for rent assistance.  It nearly, literally, killed me.  I just wanted life to be done.  When I spoke with the Pastor's assistant he pulled out a huge log of parishioner's that had sought rent assistance over the year.  The binder was huge.  And this is in a well to do area.  
Don't kid you technology, offshoring, HB1 Visas, forcing workers to do more with less and just plain old greed are destroying this country's financial stability from the inside out.  Unless you think the US can be great again with everyone driving for Uber.  
George N Romey Added Nov 30, 2018 - 3:33pm
Human beings evolve over time.  Its why we still aren't living in caves and defecating in the woods.  Our Fore Fathers owned slaves because that's what land owners did at the time.  They weren't evil per se.
In 1921 when FDR contracted polio he knew he would never work in the private sector again.  Why?  Because the prevailing belief at the time even among the educated elite was that a cripple man was mentally deficient.  I wouldn't call FDR mentally impaired at the time.
The point is our thinking changes and updates over time.  We now have people unable to walk working in occupations that require the ability to think critically.
Ultimately we've learned, or should have learned, some human beings are born or become such that they cannot adequately care for themselves.  In a country this rich we should be willing to care for them and/or provide assistance to families that are coping with such a family member.  Imagine caring for a 21 year old that can't do much more for themselves than a 3 year old.
Anyone that would think differently is a grade A asshole.
Gerrilea Added Nov 30, 2018 - 4:41pm
George--  I don't think I said we shouldn't help those in need. Are they in need because they had 15 children? Drug addiction? Lazy? Company downsized? Physical/mental disability?
How many can we help and who pays the piper in the end? We sure as hell know the wealthy elite will NEVER do it.
Look, I was unemployed, unwillingly for over 2 and 1/2 yrs in the "Great Recession" of 2008.  I applied for "help" and got nothing and was made to feel like I was a lazy inbred white supremacist.  I learned about all those "religious" charities....the wait time for any kind of help...3 yrs.  NOW if I had even 1 child...POOF....I'd have an apartment, furnishing and have it paid for.
I spent 30 yrs (at that time) of my life paying into the God Damn system and got nothing. If it wasn't for the grace of total strangers, I'd been homeless or ended it all.
I do understand where you are coming from.  We've been had.
How'd we get here? People voting to steal other peoples money.  The corporations that pay no taxes and their corporate officers should not be allowed to vote, period.  Collecting social services, working at government job or the like? NO voting for you.
How do you think the Military Industrial Complex got so big?  People voted their stock porfolio's and poor people were conned into believing the lies.
George N Romey Added Nov 30, 2018 - 6:15pm
I was there with you. People that scream white privileged are clueless to what they speak about. We have a problem that women can use out of child wedlock as an ATM machine.
Here’s my solution. We give assistance to a young girl only if she agrees to have her tubes tied. If she wants to reverse the procedure she pays for it out of her pocket and loses assistance. No more supporting mothers that have not the financial, emotional, or mental resources to take care of multiple out of wedlock children.
Gerrilea Added Nov 30, 2018 - 10:42pm
Mogg T---  The largest single employer in the world is the US Dept of Defense with 3.2 million.  When you total all employees at the Federal & State levels, in all departments, agencies etc we pay for 21.9 million publicly paid "employees".  The US Gov't is the largest enterprise in human history.
They consume 40% of our GDP, not including the future benefits they've been promised.
I can't vote for all those public employees but they get to vote for the person whom will tell them their "job" is safe when they vote for them.
In no uncertain terms, it was a scam.  Until Trump got elected.
For me it boils down to this:  People today are getting public "benefits' whom never paid a dime into the system. 
It never made sense to me as a child, my mother died when I was 13 yrs old. My father got "survivors benefits" for my sister and myself, for years.  My mother worked as a waitress and didn't pay in what we got, not even close.  Reagan changed the law and my sister kept getting benefits sent to her directly until she graduated college, my "benefits" ended when I was 18 yrs old.  I never saw a dime of that money. My father didn't need it, he made $90,000 a year in construction as an IBEW member, IN 1972.
If you pay taxes and your job isn't in government or government based, like Lockheed Martin, you can vote. 
If you don't pay taxes and get social services like food stamps, medicaid for your children, you don't get to vote.
If you work for a "tax free" foundation, agency or religious group, you don't get to vote.
Simple, keep voting to those whom actually are footing the bill. 
I don't care if you own property or not, most of us can't afford to fix our 20+ yr old vehicles because we don't have the opportunity to get living wage jobs...they've been shipped to slave-labored nations.
George--- I agree with your suggested solution.  There has to be conditions placed upon people if they want us to help them.
Mustafa Kemal Added Dec 1, 2018 - 12:37am
OT, but I thought you might find this interesting
Beware the Trumpenleft
Gerrilea Added Dec 1, 2018 - 1:12am
Mustafa--- No, not really off topic, in fact....damn you...I read the whole thing.... It was wonderful.
"Trumpenleft":  Its official Russo-Nazi-sounding code name is still being decided on by leftist cryptographers, but most people know it as the “Trumpenleft.”
"The Trumpenleft is determined to sabotage (or momentarily disrupt) this revolutionary work, mostly by tricking these actual leftists into critically thinking about a host of issues that there is no good reason to critically think about … global capitalism, national sovereignty, immigration, identity politics, corporate censorship, and other issues that there is no conceivable reason to discuss, or debate, or even casually mention, unless you’re some kind of Russia-loving Nazi."
Hell, if I didn't know any better, I was one of them....ROFL.

Jim Stoner Added Dec 1, 2018 - 2:31am
Gerrilea,  I don't know why you were unable to receive unemployment benefits when you lost your job during the Great Crater. I can see why you may feel that was unfair when others were able to receive them. 
As for myself, I have put over a milion dollars into the Federal treasury through income taxes (not counting the Medicare/Social Security investments in my future security), and have never received a dime in direct payments from it (except when I worked for the government, a couple of summers).  However, I am well aware of the benefit I receive of being able to live in this great country, secure in my possessions and in the defense of the country, able to work, make contracts, own property, etc.  I am not envious of those who have a disability payment, or who are poor and unable to feed their families without assistance, and I respect their opportunity to participate in our political process, the same as my own.  
Gerrilea Added Dec 1, 2018 - 3:25am
Jim S--- Unemployment? Who said anything about a fee my employers were forced to pay to the state for employees that lose their jobs?
It's not about envy or "gratefulness" or emotional manipulations, as Jeffrey K has done in various articles and postings he's made.  This about reality. 
If you don't pay taxes into the system, why do you get to vote in said system? If your job is paid for by the system or you are paid by the system and have paid nothing into said... because of x, y or z and because we are a generous people, WHY should you vote???
Here's a solution.  How about you get an equal amount of what you paid into the system?  If you have no job and never did, you get nothing.  If you work for government or its "contractors", you get nothing.
The idea of "means" testing must go.  If we are to reverse the damage without Martial Law or War being declared, we must do something.
Mr. Vengeance Added Dec 1, 2018 - 3:59am someone's civil rights should be suspended or stripped because they're poor? LOL! I know what you mean though. Many people can't seem to figure out that among the reasons Trump was elected is because we're getting sick and tired, literally and figuratively, of being treated like fourth-class citizens in our own fucking country.
Once while stationed in Germany, I met a pretty girl at a bar. We hung out and chatted, and I was more than willing to buy her drinks. I thought I was going to get lucky, but she went on to say that she was on public assistance and couldn't be seen bringing men home with her. When I offered to get a room somewhere, she said she was too afraid of being tailed. Only in Germany, I guess, lol.
Flying Junior Added Dec 1, 2018 - 4:10am
So the point of this rant is to disallow disability payments from the Social Security Administration?  Is it your point-of-view that it was never intended to actually take care of American families but was merely supposed to be a golden parachute for those who actually lived very much beyond sixty-seven years?  Maybe you see all SS and Medicare payments as a direct robbery of the American taxpayer.  Or just disability payments as a robbery of hard-earned payroll taxes.
How about the robbery of Trump's filthy tax cuts?  Are you out of your mind?
You are always free to move to another country.   Because if this keeps up, nothing could please me more.
Where is the nurturing feminine side, Gerrilea?  I'm going to chalk it up to your incessant embrace of the neo-conservative agenda.  You are an interesting case.  You have completely lost your way.  Yet you claim a certain superiority over just about everybody else.
Just impress us by your efforts working towards cleaner air and water and we will be forever in your debt.
Doug Plumb Added Dec 1, 2018 - 4:59am
People have no problem buying $200.00 shoes from kids in China forced to work 70 hour weeks at 25 cents an hour but give some American or Canadian who is a little fucked up some welfare and they have had enough.
No problem with multiple wars and over a hundred foreign occupations. No problem with fluoride in the water.
Maybe we have no problems with the wars and foreign occupations because there is fluoride in the water.
Doug Plumb Added Dec 1, 2018 - 5:01am
Redemption through work is the answer, keep your nose pointed toward that grindstone and you will be OK. No time to look up, I have to work!
Gerrilea Added Dec 1, 2018 - 5:04am
Flying J--- Stereotyping much???
I've never bought into the Neo-Liberal or Neo-Conservative agendas. They are the same thing, "Steal what isn't nailed down and if you can't, get a crowbar."
Trump didn't steal anything.  Giving tax breaks to those whom need it the least establishes his set of priorities, just like Obama did and everyone else up to and including Reagan.
Here, it's simple: How about you get in "benefits" what you've paid in??? No more or less. 
General taxes for defense, highways and infrastructure are non-refundable.
And if you want to vote, don't be a government employee or a "beneficiary" that hasn't ever paid into the system.  I will make exceptions for active fact...they should get to vote twice. If we are going to put them in harms way, they should get a vote on it too...AND have it mean something.
Gerrilea Added Dec 1, 2018 - 5:08am
Michael B--- The "progressive left" wants to abrogate rights, why shouldn't we go for the first and most fundamental ones? Like free speech and voting.  They've got the 2nd , 4th, 5th and 8th amendments.
See who blinks first.  That's my goal.
Mr. Vengeance Added Dec 1, 2018 - 5:27am
@ Gerrilea - That's a refreshing way of putting things, to say the least! In the military, one is taught to attack their enemy's weaknesses, rather than their strengths, so I think your selection of targets is pretty good, lol. However, I have to say that my Mom was on welfare for a couple of years, but she went to school, got a job, and never looked back. The success stories, unfortunately, are too few and far between to gain much notice.
JC Teecher Added Dec 1, 2018 - 7:46am
"She learned (my coworker), it's easier to be lazy and vote herself benefits that steal my labor to support the family she chose to have!!!"
That is exactly why 80% of all immigrants want to come to America.  The progressive liberals,  (on the left and some on the right) are the cause of it.  Why?
They know all too well that humans in general will choose to work less and receive more through handouts.  That did not use to be the case in America, but; it sure as hell is now.  Kids these days are taught that they can achieve greatness if they learn how to cheat, lie and steal.  That is why the majority of high school graduates are career users, and it starts at home, as many of them just take up permanent residence in their rooms or basements.  Most mommas are stuck in the "he / she is my baby" mentality, and never about pushing the sucklings out of the nest.
I saw that locked and loaded for bear defense mental mechanism play out with my wife's older brother, a 50 something baby to their mother.  She never saw any wrong in her baby boy, yet constantly was chiding and condemning the wife.
She would shovel money under the table to him all the time and he was too eager to accept it.  The wife just shrugged it off, until I found out her mother 68, was cashing in her retirement savings investments and giving the money to the brother.  I told her that mommy dearest was pizzing away her share of inheritance for big brother to party hardy, and party he was.  Going on cruises and buying big ticket Harley's, and keeping a steady supply of weed and coke for his whores.  
Finally, it all came crashing down after he had run through about 50k, and was leaving the bar late one night, drunk, and crashed his Harley.  A few weeks later we were paying our last respects over his casket.  Mommy dearest went bookoodinkydau, and is hanging on to reality by a thread.
The moral of the story is that kids need to be forced into, not being kids, by no later than 25....NOT 55!
George N Romey Added Dec 1, 2018 - 9:36am
Unemployment please.  In Florida its $152 a week for 16 weeks.  You try living on $152 a week.  The truth is that if you lose your job and your over 50 your in for a tough time.  If you are a young girl banging out babies left and right the welfare state will bend over backwards for you.
Gerrilea Added Dec 1, 2018 - 6:42pm
Michael B--- Thank you for putting your life on the line for our freedoms, especially the one that says we can disagree about everything AND still be Americans in the morning and slap the shit out of each other once again.
Yes, I see my position as a tactical move. Let them understand what they are attempting with "hate speech" and "reasonable regulations" and on and on and on. 
I actually have a reasoned legitimate argument. 
Your Mom wouldn't count, she was given a fighting chance and knocked it out of the park!  BRAVO & Kudo's.
JC Teacher--- It happened, coincidentally in the town I was born in, Johnson City, NY....or "JC" for short.  Our government "resettled" 60 thousand plus "immigrants" into our village.  It bankrupted the school system and destroyed the village.  It was so bad they had a public referendum to dissolve in 2009, I recall.  I graduated from JC High School and at the time it was #7 in the nation for graduating class participants. Out of a class of 236, 226 graduated...most with Regents Diplomas.  What I learned in HS is now taught in "college" at a Sophomore level.
Americans have been conditioned like Pavlov's dogs and intentionally "dumbed down".
George R--- EXACTLY the point, thank you.
Doug Plumb Added Dec 2, 2018 - 10:32am
Its not welfare in general, its the system we have that is the problem. That is what I read from these comments and its what I believe.
Troll Hunter Added Dec 2, 2018 - 10:41am
Aww, Grr!Lea is a little fascist.  She thinks poor people like her shouldn't vote.  
Also, may I make a suggestion, fascist?  If you are working 60-70 hours a week for 15 days straight and are still living paycheck to paycheck, either cut down your expenses, or find a better paying job.
Look, I was a poor waiter like you once, and after a year of it, I decided to do something about it.  Education can be your ticket out of poverty.  
Good luck!
wsucram15 Added Dec 2, 2018 - 10:45am
OK here we go.
In 2014, my plant closed...I had money and was receiving benefits from the WARN pmt agreement  and also unemployment benefits.  But I went in to see about medical because my pre-existing would cost me 1200 per month on my insurance. yeah.
So I went in to check, aside from the 401k, I had to exhaust all funds.  Unemployment in MD was around 373.00 weekly.  So I was eligible for medicaid then and they offered me food stamps at 17.00 per month.  Its gone up once when I had no benefits for a few months to 184.00 but thats it.
I was NEVER given or eligible for money and if you have any income at all you cannot get medical, stamps or money.  Now they check you here at least, They know what you own and is in your name and also if it is an asset.
So I sat in a room with people like me that made a good living all their lives and had to ask for help to be told, cannot have anything and then when we can, give to you it will next to nothing.
Why do you think the homeless rates went up so much through 2016? Even now, its still high.
I almost lost my house, and fought that. But I had help thanks to the governor at the time with one of the states attorneys.  I spoke in DC with VERY educated people who either did a deed in lieu of foreclosure or did lose their homes.  These people had masters degrees. I was one of the few to actually save my house out of that group.  Let me tell you what the mortgage industry did to people was horrid (illegal)  and Obama did not do enough, not by a long shot.  My major criticism of him. The thing with me is I was always frugal and never spent like a crazy person.  I was very lucky because at the time, my state had the highest foreclosure rate in the nation.
Stop bitching about people trying to get by. Im sick of hearing it, sick to death from all of you that contribute such a small amount it is irrelevant. But with all of us with small amounts it matters... 
There are very ill or handicapped people who need your help.  What about the elderly who supported this country while you were growing up in it. Have you ever seen a starving kid, let alone helped one? Shut up and go help.  It doesnt cost a dime to help...just some time. As far as social security/medicare its not going anywhere...not yet.  It will have to be changed but not yet.
Buck up pal........its your turn.  Stop listening to the bullshit in the media and look at the world.
PS I bet I still pay as much if not more taxes than you because I own two homes now, pay taxes like you on sales and anything else i do.
Also Troll is right..15 days strait and living paycheck to paycheck?
Try going from what you make weekly to living on that monthly? Shut up man.
I did it and I pay my bills, you cant live like you did, you have to cut out things and it sucks.  But I have everything I need, everything.
Try being happy and helping others...a different perspective. It helps.
George N Romey Added Dec 2, 2018 - 10:52am
When time allows I’m going to write an article about the fading America Dream. The bar keeps getting higher and higher. I went through what Jeanne went through. Five years of living hell.
Its going to get far worse. An education doesn’t mean squat if it’s not a STEM degree from an Ivy League school. Or your from money and therefore connections.
The Democrats are imbeciles babbling about a college degree. The Republicans are as equally clueless thinking it’s a matter of grit  and perseverance.
Doug Plumb Added Dec 2, 2018 - 12:23pm
Everybody just keep mopping the floor, don't turn off the tap (funny money). The country must go completely broke with funny money and the printers of it will ensure that their friends are the last ones to lose everything. Its that simple.
Logical Man Added Dec 2, 2018 - 12:40pm
A few thoughts on voting.......
When all parties are corrupt (they are) what's the value in voting?
When you vote you become complicit in the crimes of government (there are many)
Getting to choose a new master every few years makes you no less a slave.
Politicians are there to give the illusion of choice. You don't really have any as it's the bankers that run the place.
Gerrilea Added Dec 2, 2018 - 4:32pm
Wsucram15--  Funny, I was never able to own a home, even when I believed I made good money prior to 2008. The only property I own was paid for out of my Mother's estate, I got $27,000 and bought my burial plot and headstone, paid on bills and got my 16+ yr old Saab painted.  I went from a 2400 sq ft 2-family home/apartment to a 900 sq ft apartment.  I have MagicJack for my phone service ($20 a yr), I have a "TracFone" that costs me $100 a year for emergencies. I don't have cable AND I replaced all my lights to LED's.  They only "luxury" I have is the internet, $54 a month. Oh shit, I have three cats.  Surely I must give them up too?  WAIT, 10 yrs ago I DID EXACTLY THAT...
FUCK YOU and the high horse you rode in on.  I couldn't afford food for myself and I KNEW I couldn't afford to feed them anymore.  I did what needed to be done to survive, EVEN though it tore part of my soul out.  When you're poor there is no such thing as the luxury of emotions.
Oh, did I tell you that I make minimum wage??? Take home I get just under $289 a week.  All the extra hours I've been working will give me the chance to "pay ahead" on my natural gas bill and electric, winter is coming.
Could you point out where I said people should not be helped?  IN fact, my position is that if you are collecting benefits, you don't vote.
I'm willing to negotiate.
You get out what you've paid in and if you've never paid into the system YOU DON'T GET TO VOTE.  Leave the decision of what we do with our money to those putting it up to be spent.
It would be a more fair system than what we have now.  With a total debt of $189 Trillion, who pays the bill in the end? The wealthy elite will never pay the percentages we do in taxes, EVER!  We will, through austerity, martial law or war. Shit, the interest on that debt is $332 Billion.  Each and every American owes $1.1+ million and counting.
If we liquidated all the assets we have, which stands $459,000 for each person and tried to pay down that debt, we'd still owe billions AND be homeless and without a nation!
And your final solution is for me to shut up???
Never gonna happen.
Troll H-- I have a BA in History/Pre-Law from a private Jesuit College.  I've been working with other college graduates, one co-worker had a PHD.  Do not tell me that "edumacaton" will do anything but put you deeper in debt.
The only good paying jobs are in the DOD (and their contractors) or for government itself.  As Project Veritas showed us all just recently, you can't get fired.
And you want to give these bastards the right to vote???
No thank you.
George--- Thank you, I know you understand where I'm coming from, we've discussed our mutual experiences.  It would be a catharsis for you to share it with us all.
Logical M--- Ain't that the truth.  How many Banksters did Obama jail for the largest heist in human history?  ZERO.
Doug Plumb Added Dec 2, 2018 - 5:30pm
Gerrilea, why is it that you only make min wage ? Why can't you start up some kind of business like window washing? I know the commercial maids that go around cleaning houses bill at $75 an hour, plus. All you need is a car, a broom and a bit of knowledge of cleaning chemicals. Its good excercise, but lots of book/phone work until you are established and have a regular client base. I assume you are bondable.
Why don't you work to your intellectual capacity?
(I don't because I'm too busy thinking in my spare time. I'm cleaning a construction site right now for a temp agency, but I hate accounting and sales and am fine on a low income)
Doug Plumb Added Dec 2, 2018 - 5:30pm
Starting a business intelligently taxes anyones mental capacity - its not for the dumb.
Logical Man Added Dec 2, 2018 - 9:08pm
I had my own business for 10 years - one man band signpainter. I loved the creative end and hated all the associated bullshit - chasing arseholes to pay bills, accounting/government form filling and taxation issues.
Worked for businesses in a creative capacity ever since. I get to do what I enjoy and have others deal with the crap. I may pay more tax but at least I've not lost my mind. Not a bad trade off.
Mustafa Kemal Added Dec 2, 2018 - 9:16pm
Gerrilea, thought you might appreciate it.
Best regards,
Mustafa Kemal Added Dec 2, 2018 - 9:49pm
Gerrilea, sorry to hear you are making minimum wage.
You seem quite intelligent and under the assumption that you are industrious I would like to offer some ideas.
1) I have a friend who is a high level scientist at a national lab and he is desperate;ly trying to find a way to make a living that both makes a living and makes sense. The makes sense part comes from the fact that they are not really allowed to work any more and the main objective is to suck on the gov tit.  Thats not science. So, he has the golden handcuffs problem.

We feel things have really changed. We think the time to be well compensated for something that people need is over. Instead, we feel it is now  time to make something that the 1% want. They may not need it, but they want it.
He is thinking about getting training in how to build/repair high end watches. He tells me that there is one (1) certifief rolex repairman in New Mexico. This indivicual has a small shop, very expensive watches and people come to him for whom money is no object.
He makes a very good living.
2)Also, I have young relative that spent $30K and a year to get trained to build racing motors. He said when he got out he was immediately hired, (these numbers are not exactly correct) at 36K, the next year at 50K, the next at 75K and after 4 years he is about at $100k. He likes the work and his employer truly cares if he does a good job.
3) I have a neighbor who lives in the country in northern new mexico, has a decent house and makes a living repairing/rebuilding vintage Laverda motorcycles. These are classic Italian bikes.  People send him their bikes from all of the world, he works on them in his garage and then sends them back. He also appears to make a good living and enjoys his work. Those bikes look pretty nice too.
He only works on Laverda.
Ryan Messano Added Dec 2, 2018 - 10:12pm
May I recommend ‘Think and grow rich’.
Following it’s principles led me from $11/hr to $30k a month.
Ryan Messano Added Dec 2, 2018 - 10:12pm
In seven years.
Gerrilea Added Dec 2, 2018 - 11:44pm
Hmmm--- Look's like I deleted my own post??? ROFL...
Let's try this again:
Doug P, Logical M & Mustafa K ---  I'm not unwilling to work hard, did that all my life.  I worked 2 f/t jobs & a p/t job while in college to try and pay for it.  I had to take loans out as well. 
I did run my own business for 5 yrs. NYS passed regulations that put me out of business.  The best investment I ever made was a $200 Quickbooks Program.  It did everything from P & L reports, to Cash Flow, Invoicing & Payroll, once it was set up.
I paid myself $450 a week and had 4 employees, paid them $400 a week and I generated $1.4 million in sales over that time.  I worked 12 hr days and it was great.
But now, at 50 something yrs old. I'm finding I have parts of my body that I didn't know existed. 
"Oh, that feeling in your stomach isn't's your gallbladder"???
Oh that pain in your back isn't arthritis, it's your enlarged Spleen.
SAY Whaat???" 
The spleen??? What does that do and why's it there again?!*&!!!! 
YOU have an infection! 
What's H-Pylori???
Oh and you have Celiac's disease!
Ugh, as I chuckle softly because it hurts my slipped disk too much!!!
Wait, I'm not done, then because of the massive amounts of antibiotics I was on to kill the H-Pylori & an abscessed tooth,  I got a "thrush" infection in my throat I've been battling for 9 months now.
I'm not sure I could work like I did as younger person. I've learned to "settle" and try to find some peace and happiness in small places.
That's the key for me these days.  Life's too short and we miss so much by chasing the almighty dollar. 
And Logical M, if you can do something you enjoy and get paid for doing it, bonus points all the way to the bank or debt collector or the kids or the car or _______.
Thank you guys for the great conversation.
And Mustafa, that link was great, I've been sending it to friends, they love it! What a great find.
Ken Added Dec 3, 2018 - 6:52am
While I get your point, and don't totally disagree with it, there is some other stuff that needs to be discussed.  It depends on what kind of assistance.  While I don't think social security should be around, and I believe if it were ever truly challenged by anyone that could be considered to have standing, retired folks with SSDI shouldn't be prohibited from voting.  It is those that make up most of the 48% that pay no federal income tax that shouldn't be allowed.
The founders understood the takers vs. the producers, and they restricted voting to those that owned land (before federal taxes even existed).
They understood, you have to have skin in the game to be reasonable.  That is why as much as I hate the federal income tax in general, I believe it is important that no one that pays no taxes should be voting.  The minute folks are allowed to just vote to "give me stuff" we are self destructive.  And that has been happening for almost 2 decades now
David Montaigne Added Dec 3, 2018 - 7:08am
Socialism is evil, socialism is theft.  Period.  Workers should have full citizenship rights.  Welfare recipients should not be able to vote.  This obviously destroys a civilization.  The only welfare to those "in need" should be voluntary contributions.  Those "in need" (and those in school) should be thoroughly educated to understand what will happen to them if they are irresponsible: they will have a hard life of many hours of menial work.  Otherwise, the system will eventually implode when the lower middle class can't take it anymore.
Gerrilea Added Dec 3, 2018 - 9:58am
Ken---  I've been working out the details, as I discussed this with everyone.  I'd say, you get out what you put in.  Some taxes are non-refundable, like Defense & Infrastructure. 
The days of giving our government a blank check has to end.
Your SSI payments should equal the amount you put in, divided out over however many years you expect to live after you retire, just like private 401k's.  Pensions are a ponzi scheme and should be banned. How many employers (and their corporate officers) have stolen those funds and left millions empty-handed OR worse, went bankrupt?  The State of Illinois is on the verge of dissolution because of them.  Where'd all the money go?
Now, as for SSDI, how in god's good earth can you get a higher payout just because your disabled?  What constitutes a disability?  George R pointed out that he was "advised" to apply for them because he couldn't find a job.
The first step is to reserve voting for those whom pay (or paid) into the system.  If you work for government (or one of it's contractors), you can't vote either.  There are, as of this morning, 23 million gov't employees.
The only exception would be military (active & former), as I said before, they get to vote twice.  And FYI, I've never been in the military.  NOW it's get a tad tricky if they go on to become a paid mercenary for our government (which many of them do) at that point we'd have to "negotiate" their status.
This plan would only effect voting at the Federal level. Let each State do what they decide.
David M--- I do not believe socialism is evil, just communism watered-down but I do understand your points and agree mostly.
George N Romey Added Dec 3, 2018 - 11:03am
I've lived a very, very unusual life and not all of that I can say has been good. I've been around .01% and I've been destitute. Anyone that has swung between such extremes really gets a solid understand of how the world is viewed by different economic classes.  When time allows I will write articles on both.
For now I can say the .01% see the world in a very distorted and unrealistic manner.  That's logical considering how much easier life can be and that they are closed off to any economic suffering.
On the other hand as far as the welfare state.  My experience is that two thirds are just living off whatever meager scraps the state will throw their way, despite how much of a horrific existence it becomes.  Another 20% or so are people trying to turn their life around but our system makes it nearly impossible.  Our system is designed to keep them poor and underutilized because they for many are a profit center.  The final 20% are people that through no fault of their own fell on bad times.  A job loss. Sickness.  Sadly, the welfare system is again designed not to make them self sustainable Some like myself find the means to prevail even through some very dark days.  Others fall victim to substance abuse, mental and physical illness or suicide.  And then some just become permanent wards of the state.
It's a very complicated issue for which our welfare system isn't very good at solving.  Moreover, too many people like to throw out slogans and make speeches that have no bearing to the reality on the ground.  
Ken Added Dec 3, 2018 - 3:57pm
Pensions are a ponzi scheme and should be banned. How many employers (and their corporate officers) have stolen those funds and left millions empty-handed OR worse, went bankrupt?  The State of Illinois is on the verge of dissolution because of them.  Where'd all the money go?
You are mixing apples and oranges here.  There is a big difference between private sector pensions and public sector pensions.  Even wildly progressive FDR thought public sector unions were immoral and should be illegal.Chicago negotiated state employee benefits with money they never had.  Some private sector companies have done poorly with pensions as well, most are quite careful with them however.  I work for a fortune 50 company and not only is our pension fully funded - it is over funded at about 108% of liabilities.
The problem with public sector pensions is those doing the negotiations are not the actual employers.  It is an incestuous relationship between politicians and unions.  Politicians give unions huge benefits, unions put money in politicians pockets.  If the politicians don't play ball, the unions go out and fund one that will.  While the actual employer (the taxpayer) has no say in the matter at all. 
There are many rules surrounding private sector pensions and how they are set up and maintained, but these same rules don't apply to government.  They just dump them into "unfunded liabilities" and spend the money on whatever they want to currently.  It should be illegal to do that, but what lawmaker is going to restrict their own power?

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
Alexis de Tocqueville

Doug Plumb Added Dec 3, 2018 - 8:08pm
Ryan, how do you make that much money?
Doug Plumb Added Dec 3, 2018 - 8:08pm
Gerrilea, you should look into mega dosing vit C.
Gerrilea Added Dec 3, 2018 - 9:40pm
Doug P---
I've been doing that with vitamin D.  I'm a tad uncomfortable with vit C most of it comes from GMO sources.
I'm slowly getting better.  I also have been taking probiotics each day.
Thank you for the kind thoughts.
Cliff M. Added Dec 4, 2018 - 6:56pm
Great Story about the travesty welfare has become ,"Nearly Two - Thirds Of Non Citizen Households In America Are On Welfare" Today In the Drudge Report under Zero Hedge. Non citizens are collecting welfare at almost twice the rate as native Americans.
George N Romey Added Dec 4, 2018 - 8:06pm
Cliff bang out some babies and the woman moves to the head of the line. Even before a legal US male citizen. Don't think the illegals aren't aware of this fact.
Gerrilea Added Dec 5, 2018 - 11:18am
George, ain't that the truth.  As a "single" person I wasn't even allowed in the line.
Cliff M. Added Dec 5, 2018 - 11:30am
After non citizens are in the U.S. more than 10 years the welfare recipient rate rises to 70%.
Ward Tipton Added Dec 6, 2018 - 2:04am
Saying that government employees pay taxes is like saying the kid who only gets an allowance from his father then "contributes to the rent" ... it sounds good but it is just returning the money to the source, not making any direct contribution and still constitutes a net loss. 
Gerrilea Added Dec 6, 2018 - 1:00pm
Ward T--- Good Lord, I questioned that same "logic", in exactly the same manner.  I must have been a teenager when I thought about it, none of it made any sense. 
We pay you out of our pockets to do x, y or z and you pay us back, in smaller and smaller amounts and claim you've "paid into the system"???
What poppycock.
I recall the arguments I had and especially the replies like: "Well, you want the best and the brightest, right? Well you have to pay for it!" And I loved this one: "We can go into the private sector and get more!"
When those social contracts were written, it may have been true but why didn't they go into the private sector?  If I can make more, why would I settle for a "government job"?  The only answer I could surmise was THE BENEFITS, not the pay.  Their "health insurance" paid for boob jobs and penile implants and facelifts and nose jobs.
I must admit only one thing here, government jobs and the benefits they earned became the standard for the private sector.  And today, people view their 'benefits" as absurd.  That's because those same "government employees" sold off our nation to the highest bidders in slave-labored nations.
Mustafa Kemal Added Dec 7, 2018 - 10:48pm
"Socialism is evil, socialism is theft.  Period.  "
True, but dont forget
Finance capitalism is evil, finance capitalism is theft.  Period.  
You have to keep your eyes open, or they will fool you into thinking they  are the good guys, while they are picking your pockets.