The joke that is called "collusion"

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As has been discussed multiple times, collusion in and of itself is NOT a crime.

 

The sad thing is, no collusion has been proven to have even happened.

 

What has been proven (and won't even be investigated) is unprecedented domestic spying which is abuse of power by Obama.  What has been proven are laws broken by Hillary Clinton with classified emails and using a fictional dossier to generate a a FISA warrant to justify its abuse of power.

 

The evidence has already been laid out in a slam dunk case for how Clinton committed multiple felonies by violating the espionage act.

 

What is even more astounding is how this is ignored and excused by those on the left, through their donkey tinted glasses.  Defending the indefensible simply because they are on "your team".

 

I digress, but it was telling that The Clintons - who used to command hundreds of thousands of dollars per speech to their foundation when they had power and could pay to play were just in Montreal and got less fans than the hapless Haps even get by filling only 17% of the available seating - and most tickets sold at a steep discount of $10.

 

By most accounts the Mueller investigation is winding down, even from comments they have made, and what are the results?  So far, negligible.  No collusion has been identified or proven (primarily because they refused to look at those who actually were guilty of it)

 

All criminal indictments to date are process crimes or financial crimes, either committed well before the people  interacted with Trump, or AFTER the investigation began, and created by the investigation

 

Other than the point that this investigation is completely political,  a "successful" independent investigation doesn't require indictments to be successful.  Exonerating everyone involved is just as successful - if it weren't politically motivated.

 

Thus far, here are the people who have pled guilty, and their crimes:

George Papadopoulos: Pled guilty to lying to the FBI, no evidence of underlying crimes with regard to collusion.

Paul Manafort: Pled guilty to counts related to work for Ukrainian politicians and tax issues.

Rick Gates: Pled guilty to a false statements charge and to conspiracy related to work with Ukrainian politicians.

Russian nationals: Indicted on conspiracy charges related to interference with the 2016 election, but with no actual relation to the Trump campaign.

Alex van der Zwaan: Pled guilty to making false statements to the FBI about contacts with Gates.

Michael Cohen: Pled guilty to tax and bank charges, as well as campaign finance violations, as well as lying to Congress about Trump business in Russia.

 

Theorignal FISA warrant wasn't even against any of these folks, in fact, the person investigated has been charged with NOTHING after 2 years.  Carter Page isn't listed here because nothing illegal happened.

 

But hey, let's keep up the witch hunt and send a report to congress to impeach President Trump, right?  We have stopped being a nation of laws and have stopped peaceful tasnition of power which we have done better than any country in history by politicizing and worse, criminalizing the opposition

 

It is time to end this persecution.  No matter what you think of President Trump and his good or bad qualities, and his ability to govern or not, this farce needs to come to an end.  stop the total and complete #resist campaign just because you are butthurt you didn't get a third term of Obama through Hillary to complete the "fundamental transformation", and let the man govern.  If he fails, replace him through the ballot box.  If he succeeds elect him again in 2020.  Stop undermining EVERY act he tries to do as the legitimately elected president.

 

Many were pissed with Obama (and for you racists out there who see everything through the prism of race), not because of his race, but because of his radical ideology.  He was the most radical (and unqualified) president ever elected.  You saw TEA Party protests rise up once they saw what policies he was going for, but there was NEVER a constant attempt by everyone from the media, to academia to hollywood that tried to take him down before he ever did anything.  Americans gave him the benefit of the doubt.  He was a failure, we all know that.

 

Amazing how so few that opposed Trump (and I was one) will give him the benefit of the doubt.  You latch on to this comment or that comment, and use it not to engage, but simply to justify your hate and anger that he is even in the office.

 

Even FJ admitted he only hates Trump for one minor reason in a different thread.  Yet he will give him NO credit for any of the good he has done, even though the reason wasn't even a policy issue.  It was simply a personal grievance with something he said years ago.

 

The absolute unmitigated hate among the left is nonsensical.  You cannot justify what he has done in the past 2 years that is harmful - at least not legitimately and with facts.

 

He simply won an election and congress was kept by republicans and you cannot stand that fact. You hate that average citizens rose up and said "We don't want to go down this leftist political road".

 

Get over yourselves.  And I know there will be serious bitching from lefties on this site to this article, and I bet not a single one of you will admit that he has actually done some really good stuff as president.  I don't agree with all he has done, and will criticize him as necessary, but not a single one of you has been honest enough to say "hey his decision to do XXXX was the right choice".

 

You simply cannot accept the fact that he isn't Hillary.

Comments

Troll Hunter Added Dec 4, 2018 - 7:37am
Massive spying started with President Cheney and the Patriot Act.
FISA warrant started BEFORE the dossier and was renewed multiple times because of new evidence continually being found.
 
Stopped reading right there because you never get your facts straight...
Steel Breeze Added Dec 4, 2018 - 8:14am
@Ken,agree wholeheartedly.......i dont 'like' President Trump and didnt vote for him,but just as with President Obama,who i felt the same way about, i give credit where due, as any free thinking individual should..........liked...
Leroy Added Dec 4, 2018 - 8:26am
To play the devil's advocate, isn't the offer to give Putin a $50 million apartment proof of a conspiracy to commit a crime to overthrow the elections?  Trump wanted something from Putin, right?
Dino Manalis Added Dec 4, 2018 - 8:35am
 Trump probably doesn't know how to collude with the Russians, while Hillary has plenty of experience.
Stephen Hunter Added Dec 4, 2018 - 9:22am
Ken, collusion happens all the time, as it is part of our pack mentality approach to life. You scratch my back and I scratch yours. It is really a mob or bullying mentality at the end of the day, and pressure is exerted to make the decisions that benefit companies financially, in spite of the facts that the act is not good for society. Why not outlaw lobbying and political donations? 
It happens on the left and it happens on the right! It is human nature, and if we do not step in as a society and say no to big business, then they will continue to rape our planet and we will eventually have no place to live. 
If this is leftist thinking in your opinion I respect that, but I am not a die hard liberal. (my father was a far right conservative) I want to do want is best for the citizens of earth, and see less people suffer.  
Liberal1 Added Dec 4, 2018 - 9:47am
"It is time to end this persecution.  No matter what you think of President Trump and his good or bad qualities, and his ability to govern or not, this farce needs to come to an end. "
 
I can't stand Trump, but my dislike is based upon numerous other things than any alleged Russian interactions.
 
I don't think Trump himself "colluded" with the Russians.  What I believe is, though Trump himself didn't "collude", he surrounded himself with self-admitted criminals who did.  When a half dozen of your closest advisers commit felonious acts, many that did involve foreign interactions and numerous interconnections, then I think prosecution rather than "persecution" is called for.  In fact, I'm surprised that they haven been prosecuted under the RICO act yet.
 
Lastly, I agree with you about Obama.  I never liked him either.  He did some good things, but he totally jacked up what should have been universal healthcare, tremendously increased what I consider to be unconstitutional spying on his own constituents and got thousands of good service men and women killed for nothing (fuck his "surge"!).  Hillary is a manipulative, lying, criminal hag, IMO, too.  So in other words, don't try to tell me I am defending them.  The past and present Democratic leadership are pretty despicable.  The thing is they are just slightly less despicable than the past and present Republican leadership, not that that is saying much, so a pox on both their houses.  (I'm planning on voting for John Kasich in the next election.  He sucks a lot less than anyone else I see considering a run for the White House.  I might be "liberal", but I'm not stupid.)
goldminor Added Dec 4, 2018 - 10:53am
The Mueller witch hunt is a disgrace to our nation.  There was never any evidence of criminality by Trump or his advisers during the campaign. So there was never any justification for starting the Mueller investigation. The foundation for the investigation is all built on manipulation and lies.
 
The Mueller probe in itself is a greater threat to the stability of the US than Russia currently is.
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 4, 2018 - 11:05am
Mueller needs to be investigated. You really think the dirty business in the DOJ and FBI only started under Comey's watch? Guess again. I've seen toilet brushes cleaner than Mueller. The man is a criminal of the lowest order and nearly everyone else in the Gestapo, ....uh, sorry. I meant FBI
Ryan Messano Added Dec 4, 2018 - 11:12am
With all due respect, I'd call the Russian collusion investigation a crime in itself.  It's beyond a joke.  It's treason against America, and Hillary and Obama are responsible, with all their Democrat henchmen.
Bill H. Added Dec 4, 2018 - 11:16am
 
Trump may have not colluded at a level personally that is of significance, but it's becoming more and more obvious that his organization was involved deeply.
I believe it will become crystal clear over the next few months, so stay tuned.
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 4, 2018 - 11:18am
Thats all we can do Bill, just stay tuned. It's a laugh a day
Leroy Added Dec 4, 2018 - 11:39am
"Trump may have not colluded at a level personally that is of significance, but it's becoming more and more obvious that his organization was involved deeply."
 
Could you kindly provide an example or two?
 
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 4, 2018 - 12:27pm
Could you kindly provide an example or two?
 
Yes, and please exclude any citations from The New York Times, The Washington Post, ABC,NBC,CBS,PBS,NPR,MSNBC,CNN or FNC. Each and every account will be virtually identical, all traced back to "anonymous" sources....
 
Just cut the fucking bull shit. With a couple of notable exceptions we are all grown ups here so lets just say where the bear shits in the buckwheat. IF there was anything even remotely actionable that card would have been played long ago. Mueller has squat and he knows he has squat. His job now is to run out the clock until the reins of all of the state's security are rightfully restored to the exclusive purview of the elites that have used and abused the same for decades. Mueller has skin in this game too because if they finish peeling back the rest of the lid on this giant can of worms and start emptying all of the contents Mr. Mueller will also be the proud recipient of a long and well deserved prison sentence. If it were up to me I'd just cap him on the spot
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 4, 2018 - 12:29pm
Past presidents have been easily kept quiet, but Trump is a wild card. They cant be sure just how much he might actually reveal, but rest assured they know what he knows
Bill H. Added Dec 4, 2018 - 12:37pm
 
As expected, the only "proof" you guys will even consider would be from Fox, Breitbart, The Blaze, or InfoWars (and even Trump himself!)
I'm certain it will all become obvious over the next month or so.
In the mean time, keep biting your nails and denying.
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 4, 2018 - 1:21pm
Yes, I'm sure we'll see. Just like we've "seen" and "heard" for the past two years
George N Romey Added Dec 4, 2018 - 1:26pm
We've done massive spying since Eisenhower empowered the Surveillance State in the 1950s.  We spy on "them", they spy on us.  So what?  It's like two teenage boys comparing penis size.
Leroy Added Dec 4, 2018 - 2:01pm
Try me, Bill.  I don't have Fox News.  In fact, I don't have cable.  I am not familiar with the Blaze.  I don't like Brietbart's, so I never read it.  Is InfoWars still out there?
Ken Added Dec 4, 2018 - 4:48pm
To play the devil's advocate, isn't the offer to give Putin a $50 million apartment proof of a conspiracy to commit a crime to overthrow the elections?  Trump wanted something from Putin, right?
 
That was before he was a candidate, and yes he wanted something from Putin - he wanted to build a big Trump Tower in Moscow at the time.  Since it never came to fruition though, it is completely irrelevant
Ken Added Dec 4, 2018 - 4:55pm
What I believe is, though Trump himself didn't "collude", he surrounded himself with self-admitted criminals who did. 
 
You may believe that, but none of the evidence points to it.  It does however point to Clinton and all her cronies.  In fact the only reason her cronies aren't "self-admitted" criminals is because Comey gave many of them immunity for nothing during the email investigation.  Including all of those in her innermost circle.
Ken Added Dec 4, 2018 - 4:59pm
You really think the dirty business in the DOJ and FBI only started under Comey's watch? Guess again. I've seen toilet brushes cleaner than Mueller. The man is a criminal of the lowest order and nearly everyone else in the Gestapo, ....uh, sorry. I meant FBI
 
His entire history is checkered and troubled.  He frequently persecuted (not prosecuted) people just to wrap up high profile crimes.  Falsely convicted a man in a bombing, never apologized even once the man was exonerated (after the life had been ruined and the man committed suicide of course).  He has been dirty and corrupt his entire career.  He first and foremost in the investigation had multiple conflicts of interest and should have recused himself.
 
The history of Mueller is lurid and full of criminal behavior.  The fact that he has gotten where he is is an unbelievable set of double standards for them and then the rest of us
Ken Added Dec 4, 2018 - 5:04pm
.  I am not familiar with the Blaze. 
 
If you aren't familiar with it, I suspect you soon will be.  It is the digital platform created by Murcury Radio Arts (Glenn Beck).  As of yesterday it merged with CRtv - the digital platform that start with LevinTV (Mark Levin) and has since expanded to included major conservative viewpoints from Steve Deace to Eric Bolling to Michele Malkin to Willy Robertson to Ally Stuckey to Steven Crowder and many others.
 
It is now the largest digital platform of conservative thought available, with a variety of conservative thinkers.  They aren't all Trump supporters, they aren't all of the same mind on many things, they are, however, similar in the love of America, belief in constitutional principles, and belief in the American experiment of "Can man govern himself", as well as a strong believe in individual liberty and individual rights.
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 4, 2018 - 5:17pm
Yes, but can they play the piano ? :)
Leroy Added Dec 4, 2018 - 6:49pm
"That was before he was a candidate, and yes he wanted something from Putin - he wanted to build a big Trump Tower in Moscow at the time.  Since it never came to fruition though, it is completely irrelevant"
 
To my understanding, according to what Cohen now says, it went well into 2016, not long before the election.  Perhaps he was courting Putin to help him with the election.  That is what the left will say and that is how Mueller will paint it.
John Minehan Added Dec 4, 2018 - 7:15pm
The thing that I have never understood about this is why the SIGINT intercepts reported to have coming from British GCHQ and the Dutch SIGINT operation were not, of themselves, predicates for a FISA Warranty . . . if they were credible.
 
Yes, they are foreign sources but we have a strong relationship with the Brits.  Were the reports not deemed credible or did we drop the ball?   
Cullen Kehoe Added Dec 4, 2018 - 11:28pm
@Leroy - My understanding is the Moscow real estate dealings went up until he won the nomination in June, 2016. Then it was either pulled, cancelled, or fell apart. 
 
Trump has alluded to that already by publicly saying he's a business man and didn't know if he was going to win the nomination or not. So he continued with his business dealings. 
 
To my eyes, there is nothing improper here. It appears that in hindsight, Cohen and others claimed it all ended in 2015. So they may have lied about it. But who knows right? Maybe there was a deal on the table in 2015, then it went quiet as he won more primaries and only officially killed when the nomination was secured. So those involved really thought it ended when it "went quiet". (Cohen would have known everything, but others maybe not.)
Cullen Kehoe Added Dec 4, 2018 - 11:30pm
At the end of the day, Trump is in the business of real estate. He was working on a deal to either build or buy some real estate in Moscow. 
 
Does that seem unusual? It doesn't to me. 
Ken Added Dec 5, 2018 - 1:18am
To my understanding, according to what Cohen now says, it went well into 2016, not long before the election.  Perhaps he was courting Putin to help him with the election. 
 
Cohen is a convicted liar on multiple fronts. TIFWIW
Ken Added Dec 5, 2018 - 1:21am
Yes, they are foreign sources but we have a strong relationship with the Brits.  Were the reports not deemed credible or did we drop the ball?   
 
I have no information to back this up, but my gut tells me that the reason the brits keep asking Trump not to release FISA information or information about the dossier is that it is going to embarrass them and also implicate them in working with Obama
Cullen Kehoe Added Dec 5, 2018 - 1:30am
If Trump was "courting Putin", we would have heard about it already. What I know of this investigation is they all believed they'd find dirt on Trump right away and haven't found anything for over 1.5 years. 

If there was any actual wrong-doing, Trump should be removed from office but I think there is less than a 1% chance of that. This has the look to me of a fishing expedition by people who originally were convinced Hillary would win the election and then who were convinced that Trump was "colluding" with Russia. They knew they'd find it once they started investigating him. 
 
That's the reason for all the false stories about Trump as well based on anonymous sources. You had a lot of people that believed deeply that they just KNEW Trump was cavorting with Russia except they can't find any real evidence to the fact. 
 
(And the independent counsel almost seems like a setup. Rosenstein and Sessions sent Trump a memo recommending that he should fire Comey for his mishandling of the Hillary email mess.
 
But politically savvy guys like Bannon, when they heard Trump had fired Comey, knew IMMEDIATELY that would trigger an independent counsel against Trump. So...a Washington guy like Rosenstein, as he's writing this recommendation, was unaware that what he's encouraging the president to do would bring about a full scale "Russia Collusion" investigation? Seems like a setup to me. Why do that to your own boss who can fire you...unless?) 
Ken Added Dec 5, 2018 - 1:56am
Trump has been harsher on Russia than any previous president.  That is a simple fact.  He has sanctioned them, he has shown NATO how to stop them (except merkel is a weasel), he has armed Ukraine rather than just sending MREs like Obama did.  Anyone thinking Putin and Trump are working together is simply denying reality
Flying Junior Added Dec 5, 2018 - 3:19am
Ken,  Your article is well-researched and fair.  And you are quite right that cooperation or collusion, as the media likes to call it, between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence is not in and of itself a crime.  In a way your article seems like a confession that indeed there was a great deal of cooperation and collusion between Trump and Putin's spies.  But that does not rise to the level of violating federal election laws nor does it rise to the level of a provable conspiracy to commit crimes.  You say that collusion has not been yet proven.  Yet you are compelled to state that even had it occurred it would not have been a federal crime.
 
There is, of course, a mountain of evidence suggesting cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence.  The most obvious would be the CIA analysis of the hacking of the emails by John Podesta and also the DNC.  There were markers which identified the hackers as Russian intelligence.
 
Perhaps Putin wisely saw that he would be better off with Trump in the White House instead of his avowed enemy, HIllary Clinton.  It might have simply been a gift to Trump.  Or it might have been motivated by enlightened self-interest on the part of Putin.
 
Didn't Donald Trump Jr. just admit that he went to the meeting in the Trump Tower to discuss Russians providing dirt on Hillary Clinton?  The gift of hacked intelligence might be construed as a conspiracy to violate federal elections.
 
The Michael Cohen conviction is in the news.  So he lied to the FBI about Trump's business dealings in Moscow and by extension with Putin.  I appreciate that you did acknowledge this truth.  But aren't you missing something?  With a deal like that in the balance, don't you think that the meetings with the Russians held some importance for Trump?  Trump wanted a Trump Tower in Moscow.
 
Too bad he wasn't planning infrastructure for American cities.  I think that the only infrastructure that he cares about would be the framework of his financial dealings.
 
Remember Trump just flat lied right after the election about any contact with, collusion with or influence by the Russians?  He just lied about it like a kid with chocolate on his mustache and his hand in the cookie jar.  Most of the time lying is plenty good enough for his followers.
 
Do we really want a liar-in-chief instead of a commander-in-cheif?  (Cue the WB conspiracy theory nut cases.)



Ken Added Dec 5, 2018 - 4:15am
In a way your article seems like a confession that indeed there was a great deal of cooperation and collusion between Trump and Putin's spies. 
 
I am not sure how you see it that way, I have no evidence one way or the other
 
  Yet you are compelled to state that even had it occurred it would not have been a federal crime.
 
That is correct.  not just not a federal crime, but even if it had occurred, collusion in and of itself is not a crime.  It depends on a lot of other factors
 
There is, of course, a mountain of evidence suggesting cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence. 
 
Please link ANYTHING that supports this assertion (please no crazy conspiracy leftist websites however just like I would never support my claims from WND or InfoWars.
 
The most obvious would be the CIA analysis of the hacking of the emails by John Podesta and also the DNC.  There were markers which identified the hackers as Russian intelligence
 
Exactly how does this link Trump or his campaign to it?  this is conflation of facts.  The Russians also attempted to hack the RNC emails, but they RNC weren't fooled by the phisching that Podesta was.  That doesn't mean they were collaborating.
 

Perhaps Putin wisely saw that he would be better off with Trump in the White House instead of his avowed enemy, HIllary Clinton. 
 
His avowed enemy?  Again, please support this.  I have no doubt that Putin would have far preferred Hillary  and her "reset" button in the White house than Trump.  An extension of Obama who he had completely no respect for and has said so.
 

Didn't Donald Trump Jr. just admit that he went to the meeting in the Trump Tower to discuss Russians providing dirt on Hillary Clinton? 
 
I haven't heard or read his quotes about the Why, but I have heard and read that NOTHING came out of the meeting, and President Trump knew nothing about it.  So again, no collusion, and even if he did, there is still nothing criminal.
 
Too bad he wasn't planning infrastructure for American cities. 
 
Why should anyone be concerned about a deal that never happened?  And as a private citizen and a real estate developer, why was it his responsibility at the time to "plan infrastructure" for American cities?
 
Do we really want a liar-in-chief instead of a commander-in-cheif? 
 
You mean like all of Obama's lies?  Again, I go back to all of this hatred of Trump hypocrisy - where can you even once point to a single comment you made about Obama and his lies?  Just once?
 
I don't agree with all Trump is doing, and I was a never Trumper prior to election and had little faith in him after election, but I have appreciated what he has done so far.  I just simply don't have the absolute hatred that "he isn't hillary" so he is a pox on humanity.
 
Please, link evidence of the points you mention, and hey, can you mention a single good thing he has done? just one?  Are you part of those so hate filled that reject everything?  Even though the economic statistics say otherwise?  He has an historic approval rate among blacks at this point for a modern republican president, same with hispanics.  There is nothing he has done that is so evil that it deserves this kind of hatred that so many push.
John Minehan Added Dec 5, 2018 - 12:08pm
"I have no information to back this up, but my gut tells me that the reason the brits keep asking Trump not to release FISA information or information about the dossier is that it is going to embarrass them and also implicate them in working with Obama."
 
I don't think that is unreasonable, or even unlikely, as a worst case. 
 
In the case of the SIGINT intercepts, release would tell the Russians GCHQ's SIGINT targets definitively, so I can see the objection.
 
On the other hand, if someone in the Obama Administration had asked the Brits (or the Dutch) to collect on the Trump Campaign (the intercepts at issue did not actually come from routine collection against established Russian SIGINT sources) to get around restrictions on collection on US Nationals by the National Security Agency and others in the Intelligence Community, that could be a major issue.
 
The absolute (and, in my opinion, unlikely) worst case is that the Trump Campaign was actively cooperating with a Russian disinformation campaign against Mr. Clinton which the Obama Administration discovered while engaged in illegal political espionage against the Trump Campaign to add Mrs. Clinton.
 
If that were the case, I could see that scenario as a predicate for an intractable civil war.     
John Minehan Added Dec 5, 2018 - 12:13pm
". . . to aid Mrs. Clinton . . ."  Sorry!
Cullen Kehoe Added Dec 5, 2018 - 12:50pm
I think it's more likely that the Obama Administration simply abused its power (IRS, Holder, lots of examples of this) to spy on Trump "...in illegal political espionage against the Trump Campaign to add Mrs. Clinton."
Ward Tipton Added Dec 6, 2018 - 1:14am
I would strongly recommend reading a book by Alfred W. McCoy ... entitled Policing America's Empire. The American Police State began in earnest in 1898 and has fomented and grown worse ever since. 
Ward Tipton Added Dec 6, 2018 - 1:15am
And Ken, you lost me with "The sad thing is, no collusion has been proven to have even happened."
 
Steele is a foreign agent, hired by a political campaign, using paid Russian interests ... the only error in judgment here is to belief it is a partisan act, or a one-off ... when it happens all the time. 
Flying Junior Added Dec 6, 2018 - 3:34am
I’ll take that challenge.  It is a good opportunity to discuss this with some conservatives.  First let’s just put to bed this notion of the canard about Russian collusion between Hillary Clinton and fill-in-the-blank, whatever Russian entity that you pick.  The research was done by a Brit with contacts in Moscow.  So which Russian agency was she colluding with?  The mission was to reveal Trump’s deep connections to Russian intelligence.  But all that Steele could come up with was some salacious sex stuff.  It was not taken seriously by the FBI.  It did become known to the public shortly before the election, but as the information was sorely lacking in valuable content and without any proof or support to back up the allegations of supposed threats of blackmail against Trump, it was a pebble in the pond.  Quickly forgotten.  Well forgotten by most of us.  In fact I forgot it again after one friendly conservative was kind enough to tell me the rub last summer, the infamous Steele Dossier.
 
You guys throw around these ridiculous accusations like common currency.  Obama lies.  Hillary collusion with Russians.  I asked Snopes about these problems.  They hadn’t even bothered to address the issues.  The truth is the only reason this Steele Dossier story gained any traction was in response to all of the other news about Russian Intelligence interfering with the 2016 election.  It wasn’t important.  Everybody already knew that Trump was a slave to his dick.  So I googoled and finally found quite damning reports on the Dossier by Investor’s Business Daily.  I chuckled a little bit and added WaPo to my search terms.  It came up alright.  In an opinion piece.
 
Look, digging around for dirt on your opponents is older than the first Roman Republic.  Obama looked for anything on Romney.  Lord knows you guys looked for ten long years for any dirt on Obama.  There is a fundamental difference between such research and seeking damaging information from a foreign government.  The hacking of the DNC emails was an international crime.  Apparently it was a security breach that Trump found amusing based upon his open appeal to Russia to find the 30,000 missing emails.  The information found in DWS’ email server and presumably others was plenty damaging.  It basically cost the election.  All of the Bernie guys decided that Hillary was a DNC shoo-in.  The dumber ones refused to vote for her.  The primaries were rigged, right?  What the hell could be more damaging than that?  Yet Ken tells me that he accepts the official Trump family line that no dirt was provided.
 
There is proof that Russian Intelligence was specifically meddling with the goal of a Trump victory.  Yes, Ken, the Russians hacked the RNC servers as well.  But despite your cute story about how dumb Podesta was, the simple truth is that the Russians decided not to publicize the republican emails.  And don’t anyone try to tell me that it was not the Russkies who provided to emails to Assange.  That’s established fact.
 
So, if anyone cares, the question of just who Russian Intelligence was trying to help is addressed in these two articles.
 
Secret CIA Assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump win White House
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.9b2c38725e7f
 
This article from Reuters is based on the same report and includes the Trump transition team Doublespeak response.
 
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-cyber-russia-idUSKBN13Z05B?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social
 
So it has been well-known to everybody who was willing to open their minds for two years now.  I submit that either you guys simply don’t care and that it was okay because it was Trump.  Or you simply stare truth right in the face and say it never happened.  Trump is the new truth.  If Trump says it is so.  It is so.









Flying Junior Added Dec 6, 2018 - 3:37am
We need to hear from Texas Lynn.  He believes in all of this nonsense.
Cullen Kehoe Added Dec 6, 2018 - 4:28am
Wow....if the Russians favored Trump....so what? I think they did want Trump to win. Because Trump wanted to let Assad stay in power in Syria. And Hillary said 'Assad must go'. 
 
But again, so what? How is that translated into something Trump did wrong? 
 
People seem to think Russia meddling equals Trump crime. It doesn't.
Flying Junior Added Dec 6, 2018 - 5:04am
I am not one of those to believe that impeachment is the end game.  Whatever crimes he committed are not important any more.  What matters is that the truth comes out.  It's funny how everyone likes to say that nothing has been proven.  Patience my friends.  The investigation is almost complete.
 

People seem to think Russia meddling equals Trump crime. It doesn't.
 
Sure, maybe not.  But I wouldn't be in the least surprised if substantial evidence of various conspiracies comes to light quite soon.
Leroy Added Dec 6, 2018 - 7:22am
Brilliant downplay, FJ!
FacePalm Added Dec 6, 2018 - 8:30am
Yeah, conspiracies by the campaign of The Liar, Flying Junior.
She certainly bought oppo research from Ukrainian sources.
She used Perkins/Coie(probably misspelled) as a through-put to pay Fusion GPS, which paid off Steele, and KNEW Steele got his alleged info from Russians, since that was Steele's primary area of expertise and experience; Steele himself was heavily biased, to the point where - knowing in full in advance that the FBI would drop him as a source if he went public - went public ANYway, due to his loathing and fear of a Trump presidency, as well as what he knew Trump would do about the pedophiles and human traffickers, i suspect.
 
What i've heard through the grapevine is that the D'OhBama maladministration persuaded the Brits to spy on Trump Tower, then used Fusion GPS to get(and elaborate upon via Blumenthal) the Steele dossier, which - according to Strzok in Congressional testimony - was the "primary evidence" that made the case insofar as authorizing(and re-authorizing and re-authorizing, and re-authorizing) the spying on Carter Page, which also made it "legal" to gather "incidental" intelligence.
 
It's also come out that at LEAST 3 spies were sent to Trump staffers, some to plant "evidence," and others to attempt to influence them to have deeper contact with the Russians; the whole Papadopoulis thing with the Australian ambassador was a set-up, as well.
 
Once Trump was elected, he was visited by Adm. Mike Rogers, who informed him of the surveillance; Trump promptly departed the Towers afterwards.
 
All this bullshit was illegal as hell, and the D'OhBama maladministration was neck-deep in it.  i found it quite amusing that despite the fact that The Liar outspent Trump by more than double, and despite the fact of all the spying, the oppo research, the illegally obtained FISA warrants, the illegal spying AND the declassification of multiple people's names who were supposedly protected from said disclosures, she STILL LOST.
 
"Ha-ha," to cite Nelson Muntz, of The Simpsons fame.
 
As to Mew-ler, i think it more likely than not that he was "picked" as Trump's Laurentia Beria inquisitor in order to distract from his OWN crimes, as any investigation into Mew-ler once he was "special" prosecutor would be delayed until his investigation was complete, and if not, "obstruction of justice" could muddy the waters considerably.  If he continues to drag it out, that would be a reason why. 
 
If you doubt, Rep. Louie Gohmert produced an excellent investigative report you can read here, if you have the patience to go through one of those damned .pdf files.  On top of all this, the Wikeleaks disclosure of the State Dept. cables revealed(among many other things) Mew-ler's DIRECT COMPLICITY in PERSONALLY delivering US Uranium ore samples to the Russians, ore samples classified as a "strategic asset," meaning that Mew-ler is quite likely guilty of Treason, which accounts for his increasing desperation and scurrilous tactics.
 
Yeah, Mew-ler is scum, alright; can't wait to see his OWN indictment and prosecution come down the pipe, as it will, eventually.
Flying Junior Added Dec 6, 2018 - 4:59pm
I didn't think anybody would be able to defend my most excellent sally.
 
I claim victory!

Ken Added Dec 6, 2018 - 10:58pm
Steele is a foreign agent, hired by a political campaign, using paid Russian interests ... the only error in judgment here is to belief it is a partisan act, or a one-off ... when it happens all the time. 
 
And that uncorroborated report was used by the FBI  KNOWINGLY (as we now have evidence of as of today), and never revealed as to the source (again as we know as of today).
 
Saying it happens all the time is absurd.  NEVER in american history has the administration in power used the power of the federal government to try and influence an election like this.
Ken Added Dec 6, 2018 - 11:20pm
Wow, way to conflate everything.  There is no "victory" - for whatever reason, I had to go to my profile to even find this article, it didn't even show up in the top 100 when I looked tonight.
 
 
First let’s just put to bed this notion of the canard about Russian collusion between Hillary Clinton and fill-in-the-blank, whatever Russian entity that you pick. 
 
The research was done by a Brit withcontacts in Moscow. 
 
There was no "research"  It was a made up dossier paid for by clinton's campaign to demonize Trump, and then given to a pro-Clinton FBI who used it - without corroboration - to get a FISA warrant to spy on someone simply because they were in the Trump campaign (which we know now had at least 2 FBI spies embedded in as well)
 
So which Russian agency was she colluding with?
 
 
Here is where you conflate one item with the other.  The collusion was not about the dossier.  The point was collusion at all Trump vs. Clinton.  Uranium One already forgotten?  ancient history now?
 
Shouldn't be, in fact, the Clinton Crime foundation was just opened up for a number of legal issues for "pay for play" documents revealed in the past 2 days, as well as multiple e-mails.
 
The mission was to reveal Trump’s deep connections to Russian intelligence.
 
The mission was to reveal collusion with Russia in general.  The only one proven to have done that was Clinton and OBama.  In fact, we know that the russian lawyer who briefly met with Don Jr to supposedly "give dirt on hillary" - wasn't even allowed in the US, but was given special entrance into the US by John Brennan and Obama for this trip.  Why? hmm..  Maybe because members of the campaign (as well as embedded spies) were watching what happened, and trying to build a collusion case or other abnormalities? maybe?
 
But all that Steele could come up with was some salacious sex stuff.  It was not taken seriously by the FBI.
 
that was far from the major details in the dossier, just what you happene to remember.  None of it was taken seriously by the FBI, but it was used as the primary piece of evidence in the FISA court to get the warrant.  Even in congressional testimony Peter STrzock stated "Without the dossier, we would never have brought this to the FISA court"
 

Look, digging around for dirt on your opponents is older than the first Roman Republic
 
Do you not understand that one campaign looking for dirt on another is one thing, but bringing the power of the federal government to assist you is entirely different?  This is BY FAR the worst abuse of power scandal in American history.  Obama is directly implicated as are the highest levels of the DOJ, FBI, and CIA, among others.
 
Yes, Ken, the Russians hacked the RNC servers as well.  But despite your cute story about how dumb Podesta was, the simple truth is that the Russians decided not to publicize the republican emails.
 
No, I have stated many times they attempted to hack the RNC as well,t hey weren't playing sides. They just wanted to sow dissent and kill confidence - which they have done because people like you buy this crap.  They DID attempt to hack the RNC - they didn't NOT release it, they didn't get it.  They weren't able to successfully get into it like they were through the phishing of Podesta.
 
I submit that you cherry pick facts to support your position, but have little real interest in honesty of the facts of the complete picture.
 
What is even more sad is that you, and most of the rest of the left simply hate Trump so much, or are so annoyed Clinton didn't win to continue our "fundamental transformation"
Ken Added Dec 6, 2018 - 11:23pm
Wow....if the Russians favored Trump....so what? I think they did want Trump to win. Because Trump wanted to let Assad stay in power in Syria. And Hillary said 'Assad must go'. 
 
I actually think you are wrong here Kullen.  I think they didn't care who won in the abstract.  They simply wanted to break down confidence in the American electoral system which was considered one of the most legitimate in the world.  I bet that actually they would have far preferred Clinton as they knew what she stood for, and she was easy to play (remember the reset button).
 
Even Facebook has stated that russians took out adds pro and con for both candidates throughout the election as they dug in afterward to see the validity of the adds, and it was fairly even on all 4 counts.
Flying Junior Added Dec 7, 2018 - 1:39am
Fair enough Ken.  I'll call it a draw or even give you the nod, if you prefer.  The bottom line is that you guys really don't care whether or not the Trump campaign was in cahoots with Putin.  That has been undeniably demonstrated in this discussion.  Deny and deflect.  Hillary!  Obama!  Whatever.
 
I care, because if it had not been for the double-whammy of the 11:59 p.m. James Comey torpedo and the unprecedented release of confidential emails HIllary would be president right now.  It is ironic that Trump saw fit to fire Comey just because he wouldn't take an oath of allegiance, (unprecedented in our history,) when he had basically just handed the presidency to Trump.
 
Live to fight another day.  Thank you for listening.  You're the best.

Ken Added Dec 7, 2018 - 5:23pm
The bottom line is that you guys really don't care whether or not the Trump campaign was in cahoots with Putin.
 
If there were any evidence that showed it was, of course I would care.  It is not deflection to point out the complete hypocrisy of the investigation - that was started completely based on a lie, and was an investigation looking for a crime.  That is soviet tactics.  There has been clear and undeniable evidence of the Clinton campaign paying Perkins Coie to use Steele to create a dossier in which he colluded with Russia to make up.
 
Lenin once said "Show me the man, I'll find you a crime".  That is exactly what is happening here.
 
Your rewriting of history is pretty astounding as well.  ALL of the democrats wanted Comey fired, as soon as Trump did, he was a villain and Comey a hero.  Trump fired him based on a memo from Rod Rosenstein who recommended it.  It was NOT based on an oath of loyalty.   Even if it were, the president IS the executive branch.  He has the right to hire, fire anyone he wants for any reason at any time - or for no reason at all.  The phrase "I serve at the pleasure of the president" is literally constitutionally accurate.
 
Comey admitted to leaking (memos to his law professor friend to give to the NYT and WaPo) which not only is fireable, but also a felony, among other significant problems that thanks to the democrats taking control of the house in January, we may never get to the bottom of because they are going to stop all of the discovery simply for political purposes.
 
If you want the phony Mueller investigation protected, the actual investigations into the Obama abuse of power, the abuse of the FISA court, the lies by the FBI and DOJ should be equally protected, but hey, how political are you?  You want to bury the largest scandal in American political history simply because it is folks on your side?
Wendy Bugliari Added Dec 7, 2018 - 7:05pm
Let's play guess the traitor and the crime!
 
“The idea, according to the memo, was to set up a ‘joint special forces mission where together the U.S. and Russia take out a key ISIS person or place, then announces it after.’”
 
A memo Dmitriev sent after the meeting—described here for the first time—sheds new light on the conversation and indicates it addressed some of the thorniest diplomatic challenges facing the United States and Russia.
THE memo is characterized as a summary of some of the ideas discussed in the Seychelles. It’s not clear if Dmitriev, the Russian Direct Investment Fund CEO, drafted the actual document himself or merely sent it. Although RDIF is sanctioned, it was and still is legal for U.S. persons to meet with him and, in some circumstances, do business with the fund.
Wendy Bugliari Added Dec 7, 2018 - 8:43pm
Ken,
WHY did you even try that again?
"Uranium One already forgotten?  ancient history now?"
 
YOU realize the docs for Uranium One are available and point to BAD filing by LOBBY
                            History
Mississippi Governor Bryant (2012-present) served as Lt. Governor (2008-2012) under former Governor Haley Barbour (2004-2012). Prior to that he was the State Auditor from 1996-2008 (let the importance sink in). Barbour is a co-founder of BGR Government Affairs lobbying group. BGR represented Uranium One in the period of the Russian government takeover, while apparently failing to register as a foreign agent (FARA). It has long represented Russia’s Alfa Bank (from 2002 to present), owned by several prominent oligarchs, including German Khan, whose son-in-law was sent to jail for a month in the Mueller investigation.
 
As a Republican operative and lobbyist, Haley Barbour might be dubbed Mississippi’s Manafort, though Barbour hasn’t been indicted or convicted of anything – at least not yet. Barbour must be connected to Kavanaugh, since they have both long served as Republican operatives. It’s unclear what this Kavanaugh-Barbour reference is about: rel="nofollow">https://www.georgewbushlibrary.smu.edu/Research/Digital-Library/-/media/D66C9638A2EF4EA0AC3EB2CC4E9DBDD2.ashx
 
rel="attachment wp-att-51508">
 
Note that the word text in red was accidentally added when we enlarged the words “uranium one”. Based on the timeline, they are lying about foreign ownership on this form. Uranium One was a Canadian company bought out by Russia in two phases.  They may be trying to claim a loophole since there may already have been a US subsidiary.  And, yeah, we should have known.  The Republicans accuse the Clintons, left and right, of doing what they themselves did.

 
Not only did Mississippi Governor-Brexit Boy friend, Phil Bryant, attend an all white segregationist “academy” in high school, but he’s an active member of Sons of the Confederacy, even while being governor of the state with the highest percentage of African Americans.
Cheers,
~The Bug~
 
Wendy Bugliari Added Dec 7, 2018 - 9:00pm
cont..
Hyde-Smith was appointed interim Senator by Governor Phil Bryant, who was Lt. Governor under former Mississippi governor Haley Barbour. Barbour is the B in BGR Group. A FARA gov quick search shows that BGR has long worked for the Government of India, as well as other countries, including Saudi Arabia. rel="nofollow">https://efile.fara.gov/pls/apex/f?p=181:200:0::NO:RP,200:P200_REG_NUMBER:5430
Additionally, in the Senate lobbying database we find that BGR Group worked for Uranium One, when it was already owned by Russia. And, it has long worked for Russian oligarchs by representing Alfa Bank, and more recently LetterOne. BGR group recently cancelled its contract with Saudi Arabia. Recall that India was close to the Soviet Union, during the Cold War, and remains close to Russia.
Cheers,
~The Bug~
Bill H. Added Dec 7, 2018 - 10:22pm
Boom!
 
John Minehan Added Dec 8, 2018 - 9:48am
This may be of interest.  Since neither Corsi nor Stone have cooperated, this is flawed ab initio but an interesting speculative take.
John Minehan Added Dec 8, 2018 - 11:38am
Hmmmmm . . . but that does not say "removed" and no one has ever been removed . . . .
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 11, 2018 - 12:46pm
Ken where do you keep your burro stabled?

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