Doctor Seuss is now justification for legal decisions

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You thought America was nuts before?  the left has now completely jumped the shark.   Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals vacated an environmental permit using Doctor Seuss as their legal rationale.


The pipeline would have crossed through two national forests, so why was it stopped?


“We trust the United States Forest Service to ‘speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues.’ ”


This was actually part of the written opinion.  The problem?  It is a quote from "The Lorax" by Doctor Seuss.


Based on that -


A review of the permit records led the court to decide that the Forest Service “abdicated its responsibility to preserve national forest resources.”

“This conclusion is particularly informed by the Forest Service’s serious environmental concerns that were suddenly, and mysteriously, assuaged in time to meet a private pipeline company’s deadlines,” the opinion reads.

The court granted a petition to review the Forest Service’s Record of Decision and Special Use Permit, vacate the Forest Service’s decisions and remand to the Forest Service for proceedings consistent with the new opinion.


So environmental activist left judges are now basing legal decisions not on the constitution, but using Doctor Seuss to justify their ideology.


I am willing to bet no one has even ever heard this story, but this is how the left constantly acts. "Any means necessary" to achieve their ideological break down of America.  It astounds me how so many on the left here (this website as well as in general) take advantage of what America has given them or they have earned simply by virtue of being in America, and want to tear it completely apart and destroy it for the "social justice" model.


And YES Opher - I will believe and state until my dying days that you would not have ever had the opportunity that you have had to not only spout your ridiculous ideology, but to say anything at all or travel as you have if the US hadn't propped up much of the European economy for the last century.  As well as defending you from becoming a fascist dictatorship twice.


I have seen nothing here rational from FJ, Opher, Mischka,  Bill, etc that ever offers an answer to real issues, simply just platitudes, ideology, or how to become more statist.


Please defend how Doctor Seuss is now setting a legal precedent?  And how none of you on the left ever present solutions to any of the big issues, you simply chastise those who don't agree with you for being contemptible.


Because there is no alternative to freedom and liberty that has EVER been successful.


Dino Manalis Added Dec 20, 2018 - 8:41am
 Dr. Seuss seems to be a policymaker!
Mustafa Kemal Added Dec 20, 2018 - 9:04am
"Please defend how Doctor Seuss is now setting a legal precedent?"
Ken, the jump from using Docter Seuss quotes to Doctor Seuss setting legal precedent is a very large logical jump.
Now, if they had said
One Fish two fish red fish blue fish 
you might have a point.
But I dont like GMO in my
 food because
I Do Not Like Green Eggs and Ham
is not a bad argument. Its a little emotional i agree.
But when the Cat in the Hat Comes Back!
Watch out
Gerrilea Added Dec 20, 2018 - 10:06am
Mustafa--- LMFAO, you are sooo right.
I too, do not like green eggs & ham, either!
Ken--- I understand your points, they have admitted on the Veritas Tapes they will do everything they can to stop a duly elected POTUS from doing the job we hired him for.
Obama did the same thing with that pipeline.  Said one thing to his supporters and then approved it anyways, if I recall correctly.
I'm torn on the issue, we need to be self-sufficient but how many disasters has private-for-profit business created that has brought this planet's ecosystem to the brink of annihilation? 
How many people have water that is flammable because of fracking?  Homes that are toxic like in Love Canal? The Gulf Oil explosion, the disaster in Alaska and on and on. 
Then on the other side, agencies out of control that intentionally release toxins into water. Durango, Colorado comes to mind. Or they intentionally flood people's homes and then claim it wasn't for nefarious reasons.
Aren't they taking out dam's in the Midwest to drive people out of their homes? YES!  Forcing millions into cities that are nothing more than concrete prisons.
Then they are currently trying to destroy the actual records of their criminal acts.
Look, I voted for Trump but it's clear this new master is the same as the last one.
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 20, 2018 - 10:34am
Dr. Seuss would be a step up for most of the dolts working in government
Ken Added Dec 20, 2018 - 11:50am
how many disasters has private-for-profit business created that has brought this planet's ecosystem to the brink of annihilation? 
that is an easy answer.  ZERO.
There is NOTHING we could do that would annihilate the earth's ecosystem, let alone bring it to the brink.  We could set off every nuclear bomb ever created simultaneously and the earth wouldn't bat an eye.  We could wipe everyone and everything out, and the earth would simply reset itself and move merrily forward with or without us.  A million years from now, the earth is going to be the earth whether the love canal was toxic or not.
Gerrilea Added Dec 20, 2018 - 12:53pm
Ken--- Wow, okay...I'll move on, we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
I will point out that the planet will remain, life on said will not.  There is a problem with your thesis.  Ecosystem does not equal planet.  This 3rd Rock From The Sun will be here until our Sun turns into a red giant.
We have, collectively caused the extinction of 322 species.
Ken Added Dec 20, 2018 - 1:59pm
Life will remain too.  there is life all over the planet, deep in the oceans, in the polar regions, deep in the deserts.  nothing we can do will destroy all life, and it will be here as long as the earth and the sun are here.
99% of all species that ever existed have been gone extinct.  322 species is a drop in the bucket.
Life existed before we were here and will exist long after we are gone.  Don't delude yourself with self-importance.
Gerrilea Added Dec 20, 2018 - 2:20pm
Ken--- Such patronizing, I didn't know you had it in you.
You've taken one of my lines. I've never believed humanity was as powerful as it thinks. We will become extinct just like all other life that has existed here. We do have a choice and the ability to leave this planet and disrupt that cycle.
When I reference the damage caused by private corporations for pure profit, it rarely is done without a cost. Someone pays for their greed and mostly that effects the rest of us in some fashion, like flammable drinking water. Or toxic waste sites where the taxpayer is left holding the bag whilst the owners laugh all the way to their banksters.
Mustafa Kemal Added Dec 20, 2018 - 2:28pm
"There is NOTHING we could do that would annihilate the earth's ecosystem, let alone bring it to the brink"
Thats a very strong claim. Can you support it?
Anyway,  try going to the beach in near Houston.
Mustafa Kemal Added Dec 20, 2018 - 2:32pm
Gerrilea, have you seen 
Blood on the Mountain?
It is comprehensive in that you can clearly see the hegelian dialectic used by the elites
Ken Added Dec 20, 2018 - 4:13pm
Thats a very strong claim. Can you support it?
Can you tell me anything man can do with our current level of scientific knowledge that would wipe out all life on earth forever?  If you can't, my point is proven.
Mustafa Kemal Added Dec 20, 2018 - 11:24pm
"  If you can't, my point is proven."
That  is a logical fallacy known as
Argument from ignorance
we used to make silly jokes about it in school.
Gerrilea Added Dec 21, 2018 - 12:44am
Mustafa K--- ROFL, thank you for the laugh and the link.
My family worked in the coal mines in Pennsylvania and my Dad was an IBEW member.  One of my first frightful memories was him coming home, getting his 357, loading it and telling my Mom that GAF had sent "armed security" to the plant he worked at and he was going to stand with his "brothers" from the union.  Those "armed security" had already killed one guy and put 3 others in the hospital at other locations.
Our sordid history of businesses beating and killing workers is rarely ever brought into the light of day.
I'll figure a way to see the documentary, I don't have Netflix or anything like it. I don't have cable either and have only 2 televisions left in my house.
Doug Plumb Added Dec 21, 2018 - 5:32am
Law requires a book as a reference from which to make laws. If not Christianity, why not Dr. Seuss ? At least Dr. Seuss is a more logical choice than the Talmud or Koran. Dr. Seuss doesn't want to kill us.
Mustafa Kemal Added Dec 21, 2018 - 9:55am
interesting, my family is miner stock also. My mother was born in Leadville, Co. in 1934. Her parents were Austrian immigrants brought in to work the mines.  He died of black lung at 35.
As they say
make good money five dollars a day
made any more and Id move away
As I said, the movie is about so much more than these peoples plight. It captures in a nutshell the ways they can divide us so that we cannot fight them, including the use of patriotism. That and whose side the law and the police are on.
In that, I think it is somewhat of a perfect film.
Ari Silverstein Added Dec 21, 2018 - 10:13am
The court used way more than a quote from a Dr. Seuss book to justify its decision.  That doesn’t mean the decision was just or Constitutional, what it means is that you have decided to belittle the court’s decision and the legal arguments presented by the Left.  In fact, all I read from this article is disrespect for the Left and their arguments. 
The sooner you treat them with respect, the sooner they may be inclined to consider your arguments.  Start by acknowledging the fact the Left does not wish to tear this country “completely apart and destroy it.”  In addition, acknowledge the fact the Left doesn’t believe their ideology is “ridiculous” or wish for us to become a “fascist dictatorship” like the Europeans.  Know this, the more Left-bashing I read from, you the more ridiculous your arguments start to sound. 
Ken Added Dec 21, 2018 - 1:37pm
Mustafa - I can prove my point as much as you can prove yours.  There is nothing man possesses that would destroy every living microbe on earth
Ken Added Dec 21, 2018 - 1:49pm
The sooner you treat them with respect, the sooner they may be inclined to consider your arguments.
I will treat them with respect once they stop being activists and start following the constitution.  The constitution was not based on Doctor Seuss.  Their argument was clearly unconstitutional and will undoubtedly be struck down.  With no constitutional basis for the argument they fell back on Doctor Seuss.
There is nothing here deserving of respect.
Start by acknowledging the fact the Left does not wish to tear this country “completely apart and destroy it.” 
Why should I lie when all evidence is to the contrary?  That is a technique the left uses to tear us apart.  constant lying and misrepresenting things out of context.  Many on this site have gotten quite adept at it
In addition, acknowledge the fact the Left doesn’t believe their ideology is “ridiculous”
I will acknowledge this.  And I pity the fact that they don't.
or wish for us to become a “fascist dictatorship” like the Europeans. 
Fascist is the right side of socialism.  I have never suggested that was the goal.  The goal is more to the left side of socialism - Communism.  Either way, however the goal is socialism.  My only point is that either way you go as long as you stay in the sphere of wanting socialism is that either extreme is authoritarianism/dictatorship.
Know this, the more Left-bashing I read from, you the more ridiculous your arguments start to sound.
So bash the messenger, eh?  Can't defend the ideology from the facts so go after the one breaking down the problems with the ideology.
I intended to keep exposing the hypocrisy, blatant lies, and goals of the left.  If you don't want to know the truth, feel free to stick your head in the sand and go read an Opher post that will confirm your beliefs.
John Minehan Added Dec 21, 2018 - 5:12pm
"I will not read Green Regs & Pams;
I will not read them SAMS I am;
I will not read them in my House;
I will not read them with my Spouse;
I will not read the words of Men Long Dead;
I will not let them in my head;
How I hate them, yes, I do;
Clausewitz; Jomani; and Sun Tzu"---Dr. Seuss (Per the SAMS guys in 1st CAV G-3 Plans, 1993)   
Mustafa Kemal Added Dec 21, 2018 - 8:13pm
" I can prove my point as much as you can prove yours."
Well, that means you cant prove it at all.
We can try this again:
"There is nothing man possesses that would destroy every living microbe on earth"
That is a strong assertion, can you support it? Or do you normally communicate in a community where you make declarative statements and all should accept them as fact?
Anyway, i think what you say may be true, but I still dont get what the point is. Is this some argument you are using to bolster the idea that we dont need to worry about what we do to the environment?
If so, it is a pretty flakey strawman.
Ken Added Dec 23, 2018 - 6:45am
Mustafa, either you are being comically absurd or just obstinate.  You argue that what I say is a logical fallacy, yet you give absolutely NO evidence to prove it is incorrect, because you can't.
The entire turn in the thread was what a danger we are to earth by gerri.  There is NOTHING humans can do to the planet that would stop it from thriving.  The only possible way we could do it is to blow it up - literally.  blow it into millions of asteroids.  As long as the earth exists, so will life on it, no matter what we do, at our current level of scientific knowledge.
That is simply absurd to say "earth is doomed if we aren't picking up our litter" (yes, I am being silly there, but that is basically what comments are saying - we have no long term effect that won't be handled by the earth whether we are here or not.
wsucram15 Added Dec 24, 2018 - 3:11am
Ari..thank you.
I have a masters in  the law, I would never support a decision based on a child's book. Furthermore,  at least in my state, while liberal, the law is taken seriously ESPECIALLY at the appellate level.  The forest service acted "arbitrarily and capriciously" regarding the impact statement and the special use permit which was the basis for the case.
The quote just made it seem the forest service in addition to other things wasn't doing their job in the area of protection also.
Ken..people kill or injure other people every day and walk on the better argument, it is the nature of the beast (case law).  This is a lesser example of that premise.
Although I must say, in an appellate court, this is unusual.
Just my thoughts which I know you reject, but you should stop putting people in a group, not all conservatives think like you, which I understand. Try it.
Ken Added Dec 24, 2018 - 12:36pm
not all conservatives think like you
I would hope not.  While conservatives have the same principles, we are individuals.  we don't work in group thought or group speak.  We don't believe in collectivism.  We have similar goals but many different ideas in the best ways to achieve them.
Ari Silverstein Added Dec 26, 2018 - 4:20am
The person lying and misrepresenting things is you.  However, my purpose in commenting wasn’t to have some policy debate or discussion on why your arguments lack merit. My purpose was to inform you that nobody is listening to you because of the manner in which you debate. 
The difference between us is this, I show the Left respect and the Left won’t even listen to you because you show them no respect.  It was A.E. Samaan that wrote: “Politics is the art of persuasion. Good ideas die because due to a lack of charisma or character.”
A person that insults has no charisma or character, therefore there is little chance the other side will listen to you, let alone be persuaded by you.  You should also keep in mind that hard core leftists are likely too far gone, but there is a center and that’s where most of the population lies.  How you debate with the hard core leftists matters.  If the center sees one that insults and the other side engage in respectful debate, they are likely to agree with the other side, simply because they’re more likable. 
One last bit of information before you dismiss what I just wrote, I’ve never voted for a Democrat and did vote for Trump.  So you can’t discredit what I just wrote on the account of the fact we have different political philosophies. 
Ken Added Dec 26, 2018 - 11:46am
I do not dismiss anything, I listen to everything.  I also get where you are coming from.  Those who are respectful to me I try to be respectful.  Those who post lies on a regular basis to support their ideology, I do not respect and will call them out. Yes, those are the hard core leftists, and they are the ones that repeat the same lies over and over.  I could simply delete their posts from my threads for the lies that they are but then the Bill H, Opher, FJ, etc  of the world would call me guilty of suppressing free speech and what a hypocrite I am (even though that in itself is an invalid argument as free speech doesn't apply here).  Instead I refute their comments, but often times, they are so over the top and so consistently saying exactly the same things that were just refuted in the previous article and the article before that and on and on that it just gets incredibly frustrating.  There are a certain subclass of responders out there that it is incredibly difficult to continue to be civil to, and it is hard to show respect for someone that has garnered no respect at all and is undeserving of it.
I know it likely would be time consuming and painful thing to do, but if you go back through my article history, you will see I started out refuting politely, asking to post facts to back up their assertions, etc., and some folks like Bill simply just keep doing  hit jobs and/or name calling and labels.
Post a link (or even multiple links, even if from mainstream sources -  it is just extreme right wing propaganda.  The constant blinders they use are the problem in this country. The constant dishonesty of the left is the problem and needs to continually be called out wherever it is used.
This is like congress (and I am not thrilled with Republicans, believe me.  So disgusted with them I left the party close to a decade ago), but everyone talks about bipartisanship and compromise, yet why is it that the only ones that ever have to compromise to get bipartisanship are the republicans?
There is this hard left ideology that marches in lockstep toward statist collectivism, and its stranglehold on the media, education, entertainment has to be broken.  It is breaking down the culture and is the most destructive enemy this country has ever faced. 
Maybe I am a voice in the wilderness.  Maybe I am a poor voice, but all I try to do is get the truth out to as many people as possible so they can see what is really being done to them.  I just get incredibly frustrated by those that either refuse to see the truth, or those that choose to deny the truth rather than see how vile and dangerous their world view is to freedom and the entire reason the world is more prosperous today than at any time in the history of the world. 
And we are letting it all slip away as we fall further and further into a failed ideology that will only lead to death and misery, and ultimately totalitarianism of one form or another
Ian Thorpe Added Dec 26, 2018 - 12:12pm
Ken, proof (as if further proof were needed,) that liberal snowflakes have the mindset of five year olds.
It should be easy enough for educated people to put together a cogent argument in support of their position.
I suspect in this case though the judges were playing to the crowd, by lowering the level of literary skills needed to understand that verdict to a level the people whose support they courted could cope with.
And so I will remind them once again, in simplied terms, of Schumpeter's warning: Socialism always leads to fascism.
Ken Added Dec 26, 2018 - 1:30pm
Schumpeter is absolutely correct as well.  The Socialism is a political system that creates no wealth.  Capitalism is an economic system.  The extreme of Capitalism is Capitalism.  The extreme of socialism to the left is Communism.  The extreme of socialism to the right is Fascism.  Either way leads to human misery and lots of death.
Phoenix Added Dec 27, 2018 - 12:45pm
Ari said "The sooner you treat them with respect, the sooner they may be inclined to consider your arguments.  Start by acknowledging the fact the Left does not wish to tear this country “completely apart and destroy it.”  In addition, acknowledge the fact the Left doesn’t believe their ideology is “ridiculous” or wish for us to become a “fascist dictatorship” like the Europeans.  Know this, the more Left-bashing I read from, you the more ridiculous your arguments start to sound."
The left does not inhabit the same shared reality as the non-left. This is because the left views both the truth and the lie as being equally valid or at worst, equally useful. There is not much -- if any -- common ground with someone whose ideology consists of purposeful deception. 
Ken Added Dec 28, 2018 - 5:55pm
Phoenix - that is the post-modernism they are embracing now that I have mentioned in a few places.  It doesn't have to be true in the specific case, just true somewhere so therefore since someone did it you are guilty.  It is like the "rape culture" B.S. someone was raped somewhere so even though YOU may not have assaulted someone you are guilty because of all those others who did.  Perfect example of the Rolling Stone article about the Virginia rape case and their justification for it.
The fact that they don't think their ideology isn't ridiculous doesn't mean it isn't ridiculous.  The fact that you have to respect their ideology for them to respect yours when their ideology doesn't deserve respect all point to the same thing.  You  must accept them in some form or fashion, which is the right must always be the ones to compromise, not the left.  you must come to them.  They never compromise.

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