Illegal Immigration, the difference between Democrats and Republicans

The political argument has never been about having a secure border that will stop all the drugs and criminals, it's really about stopping anyone who wants to come here from just being allowed to walk right in without even being checked.

 

If Democrats had their way right now they would welcome EVERYONE in the current caravan, without even making them stop and identify themselves.  They have done everything they can to prevent Republicans from being able to stop them at the border.  Their mantra is that the few tiny number who might be criminals or terrorists are not a sufficient excuse to deny the tens of thousands who are not, "THEIR RIGHT" to immigrate to the US.  They believe everyone in the world has the right to live in the US if they want to.  They believe even the poorest and most unhealthy immigrants pay taxes when they get to the US, and do work that American Citizens won't do but need done.  They point at the Statue of Liberty, ask us to re-read the quote, "give us your poor your tired your huddled masses".

 

If Republicans had their way right now they would build a border and enforce all our existing immigration laws.  They talk about drugs, criminals and terrorists a lot but know those are a tiny minority of the millions who want to come to the US.  They also know the numbers and the vast majority of Illegal Immigrants are dirt poor and will need to be highly subsidized with tax money in order to provide them with basic educational and medical services, and food and housing that meets US standards.  They hesitate to confront large corporations who increase their own profit margins by paying them low wages counting on the fact that they and their families are otherwise being subsidized with tax money. 

 

Yes, Republicans know its true, the average poor immigrant his a huge revenue loss for the US, but Democrats argue that we're a rich country and can afford it even thought Republicans remind them we are borrowing money every year because as a country we spend more than we take in in taxes.

 

I do wish we could put an end to this by allowing the Democrats and all their supporters to sponsor all the immigrants they want with THEIR OWN MONEY.  If they want to bring millions of poor people here just offer to pay whatever difference it costs, and  that would take the Republicans biggest rational argument right off the table.

Comments

Steel Breeze Added Dec 20, 2018 - 11:24am
the key that always seems ignored is illegal, to me,thats the whole problem,we have to either enforce laws or throw them out.....
Riley Brown Added Dec 20, 2018 - 11:35am
Steel Breeze, I agree and don't think it's ever a good idea to get to accustomed to having laws we choose to keep but ignore because we don't like them.
 
Too often these days our Politicians and Judges have been allowed to ignore laws with impunity, and get away with it.
 
Our founders made rules to prevent future rulers from becoming dictatorial demigods by making it impossible for them to bully the public without their consent, but today politicians and judges do that all the time.  They ignore laws and force their will on the people because we've allowed them to get away with it.
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 20, 2018 - 11:39am
Agreed, they can take them in at their house. Note that the go to response to anyone who raises their voice in opposition tn their open door policy is to say that you are angry or a hater. Always make it about emotion. When you cant win with logic just make it an emotional argument. There is no compromise to be made with these people
Ward Tipton Added Dec 20, 2018 - 11:46am
Tell that to my wife and daughter. Apparently we are subject to all manner of restrictions as Americans overseas. They even denied her a visa to visit fearing she would just "overstay" her visa ... despite owning a home here. My daughter has to go through more medical procedures to get there than my wife had to go through with difficulties from the pregnancy ... just so she can "prove" she is my daughter. 
 
But it we were in Mexico? If we were coming across the border illegally? How much sympathy am I supposed to have? 
 
 
Riley Brown Added Dec 20, 2018 - 11:54am
Burghal, most Democrats don't believe the average illegal costs taxpayers money, so I think they would gladly agree with the stipulation that they pay if they do.
 
In their minds if an illegal family is picking fruit for min wage it's because Americans won't...  and they are right.  In order to attract American workers the jobs most illegals do would need to pay something more like $20, and everyone pay more for their fruit.
 
The facts are not tough to document, the average immigrant family has several kids all getting free schooling at a cost to taxpayers up to $10K per yr each, in many parts of the US, free medical for the family can easily be another $1,000 a month, WIC and other subsidizes can add another $1,000 pretty fast.  Taxpayers can easily be losing $25K per illegal family, so Illegal Dad and maybe Illegal Mom too, can work in the US for min wage. 
 
It takes a lot less than that to entice Americans into doing those jobs, then you don't need the illegals and their families, or all the taxes it takes to support them.
Dave Volek Added Dec 20, 2018 - 12:06pm
Unfortunately, effective immigration means hard decisions. No western society can absorb a lot of immigrants and keep social order. 
 
Western European countries are in a state of semi-chaos, much caused by the destabilization of Libya. The USA has turned a blind eye to the cheap labor provided by illegal immigrants (who is rebuilding Houston these days?). 
 
Other than finding a different approach to who we are governed, I don't have a solution to this mess.
opher goodwin Added Dec 20, 2018 - 12:11pm
I think a country has not only a right, but a need, to regulate its borders. No country can allow unrestricted immigration.
That being said I would hope the developed countries operate a compassionate programme to enable refugees, whos lives were threatened, to be considered for entry.
A regulated immigration is good.
What does need to happen though is to deal with the problems that create mass migrations - war, extreme poverty, persecution, global warming and overpopulation.
Gerrilea Added Dec 20, 2018 - 12:29pm
Riley B--- I'm usually on the same page with you most of the time. I don't see this as a Democrat vs Republican issue.  Both sides want them here.  Democrats for the votes they'll allegedly get and Republicans enabling their corporate masters to feed off them as slave labor.
 
How do we stop it?  E-Verify.  Criminal prosecutions for those whom hire them. End the H1B Visa program. Voter ID that validates citizenship.
 
Both sides play their part and nothing gets done, the status quo is maintained. 
 
Neither side speaks the truth, especially when they spout morality on one side and national debt on the other.
 
Dino Manalis Added Dec 20, 2018 - 12:30pm
 Each visitor should be evaluated for public safety reasons.  Legal immigration ought to be welcome and expanded for skilled and unskilled workers and other family members.
Steel Breeze Added Dec 20, 2018 - 12:38pm
Dino; bull-fucking-shit.....since we obviously cant seem to monitor immigration sucessfully, all immigration should be suspended until we can....
George N Romey Added Dec 20, 2018 - 12:42pm
Certain groups want illegal immigrants, particularly business groups.  Immigrants drive down the cost of labor, particularly in areas of trade.  An illegal immigrant will swing a hammer for far less.  Since said groups don't want to speak their real reasons they come up with fake "social good."
 
The news media is the worst.  They are simply looking for new viewers.  
Eric Reports Added Dec 20, 2018 - 2:20pm
Devilcrats want to submerge us into a 3rd world welfare state.  Republicans would forever be in the minority and never win another major election.  The top one percent would remain the same.
Eric Reports Added Dec 20, 2018 - 3:06pm
They chose globalism because they want to run the world with no opposition.
Ken Added Dec 20, 2018 - 4:23pm
They believe even the poorest and most unhealthy immigrants pay taxes when they get to the US, and do work that American Citizens won't do but need done. 
 
Actually, they don't believe this, they just use it in their emotional talking points to justify their new voter policy.
 
If Republicans had their way right now they would build a border and enforce all our existing immigration laws. 
 
This isn't accurate either.  If Republicans wanted a wall, they have had plenty of opportunity to build it.  They don't want to lose the Chamber of Commerce low wage employees - (which keeps wages depressed across the board for all works and benefits companies the Chamber of Commerce represents)
 
Mark Levin in the past couple of days even pointed out the actual job statistics don't back up what the democrats say.  the jobs "americans don't want to do"  maids are 51% citizens, waiters i think were 58%, taxi drivers 68% custodians 74% - he went through an entire list of those jobs "assumed" to be immigrant friendly.
 
The only ones that are intent on protecting our country are the conservatives - pretty much just the freedom caucus in Jim Jordan and Mark Meadows
Ken Added Dec 20, 2018 - 4:30pm
the key that always seems ignored is illegal, to me,thats the whole problem,we have to either enforce laws or throw them out.....
 
I would have agreed with you a decade ago.  I don't today.  Democrats don't want even legal immigrants to assimilate.  If they become part of American culture, they begin to understand that their socialist big government from back home was abusing them.  That is why they keep putting them in their nationality or ethnicity buckets.  Anything to keep us balkanized.
 
Never in our history have we taken the volume of LEGAL immigrants we are taking annually today.  most decades we admitted less than we do annually now.  We also have gone through several perids of little or NO legal immigration to give the most recent wave of immigrants a chance to assimilate - something that is not happening today.  Many immigrants have no loyalty to America, our values, our traditions or our people.
 
This is completely unsustainable.  over 1/3 of the country is foreign born.  We need a decade or more with NO immigration to assimilate the massive influx we have had or we cannot survive.
George N Romey Added Dec 20, 2018 - 4:58pm
Do immigrants do some of the jobs Americans do not want to do?  Yes, particularly since many of these jobs do not require the ability to speak English.  If the immigrants weren't here those jobs would go to uneducated, unskilled Americans.  Or wages for those jobs would rise and some of those jobs would be replaced by technology at a faster clip.
 
Today even some of the most unskilled jobs require some ability to use a touch screen device such as the counter employee at McDonalds.  People that can't read and write will increasingly find it harder to find work, or that menial job will simply be replaced by technology.
 
50 years ago a Janitor job could provide a lower middle class living.  In other words the person could afford the basics without state assistance.  Today's immigrants if they do take those jobs at minimum wage are going to need state assistance.  The way to get that assistance is to have children.  Illegal immigrants with children will also take priority over a white male citizen. Anyone that tries to tell you differently doesn't know what they are talking about.
 
The number of jobs that require no skills and no language ability are being automated.  What's going to happen when the supply of illegal immigrants well more than outweigh the supply of low end jobs?
Riley Brown Added Dec 20, 2018 - 5:29pm
Gerillea, I did say in my forum topic statement, Republicans "They hesitate to confront large corporations who increase their own profit margins by paying them low wages counting on the fact that they and their families are otherwise being subsidized with tax money".
 
Yes I know many Republican supporters don't want their representatives to mess with their "good thing" but overwhelmingly the Republican party would put an end to most illegal immigration if they could.  The Democrats just want to stop calling them illegals and let them all come here.  There is a huge party divide.
Riley Brown Added Dec 20, 2018 - 5:37pm
Dino, are you saying the US and all other relatively rich countries allow anyone who is not criminally inclined to enter, stay in and enjoy the benefits associated with living in those rich countries?
 
How would the raise the money to pay for the resulting huge waves of immigrants, especially those who have no money, education or job skills?
 
Should that also include free medical for people who come here to get treatment for super expensive medical conditions that is not available where they come from?
 
Lastly, if the answer is yes, would you and your like minded friends be willing to pay the cost of making that happen by yourselves, so that people who don't want to be as generous as you won't complain about the impact to them?
 
Riley Brown Added Dec 20, 2018 - 5:40pm
Eric, I must admit sometimes I think many Democratic politicians are only looking at potential votes when they speak out against enforcing immigration laws.
Riley Brown Added Dec 20, 2018 - 5:50pm
Ken, I have a hard time seeing how you think Republicans wouldn't build a wall tomorrow if they could, the vast majority vote for anything that pushes us in that direction every time.  If they were the only ones voting it would already be done.
 
The only thing in their way is that it's not just up to them, Democrats get counted too.
 
Funny you should mention the numbers thing, and you are right we havn't just let anyone in the US since long before the Statue of Liberty was erected.  Most people don't know the history, yes most are decedent from immigrants, but most of them were carefully screened for health problems and financial backing, and would have been one of the millions sent home if they weren't healthy or couldn't find a financial sponsor.
 
Oh and for all of you who missed it, the Statue of Liberty wasn't built by the US to welcome the world's poor huddled masses, it was a gift from France.
Jeff Jackson Added Dec 20, 2018 - 6:07pm
Riley, perhaps we could find out who in our government is responsible for allowing 13 million people in this country illegally. The low wages of the illegals have driven down the wages of everyone, except, of course, professions where your academic and pedigree backgrounds are meticulously examined. The economic impact of illegals, stressing our infrastructure, educational and medical institutions is in the hundreds of billions. Name for me, please, another country in the world that spends billions on illegals.
Riley Brown Added Dec 20, 2018 - 6:23pm
Jeff, I think in this case you have to follow the votes.  Who gets more if illegals get to stay here?
Ken Added Dec 20, 2018 - 7:14pm
I have a hard time seeing how you think Republicans wouldn't build a wall tomorrow if they could,
 
They could have put it in any of the CR given to Trump so far, including the one he just rejected today if they actually wanted to fund it.  The senate can pass budget measures through reconciliation requiring only 51 votes. 
 
If the Republicans wanted the wall, they could have pushed it any time and the democrats couldn't have said a thing.
 
The same with defunding planned parenthood.  The same with defunding anything they wanted including parts of planned parenthood and the democrats could have done nothing about it.
 
But did they?  Nope.  I don't see why you have a hard time seeing that.
Ken Added Dec 20, 2018 - 7:17pm
the Statue of Liberty wasn't built by the US to welcome the world's poor huddled masses, it was a gift from France.
 
That isn't really accurate.  Read the whole poem in context.  It isn't about the world sending us all of their undesirables, it is the fact that we are a beacon to those who want to rise up and are being held down by the systems they are in.
 
It is not reasonable to expect us to take care of the entire world.
 
Your previous comment better sums up the immigrants cried out for by the poem rather than jsut the "poor huddled masses" piece.
Bill H. Added Dec 20, 2018 - 7:59pm
 
Friends I know who profess to be Democrats and have had discussions about this subject with in no way endorse "open borders", as many professed and obvious Republicans out here seem to think. Seems that Fox News and other RW sources like to push this one.
Most do not agree that a wall is the answer. I also agree with this. If we are going to implement cost-effective border protection, it would best be done by using technology,such as drones, satellites, enhanced sensors, and increasing the staffing to implement, operate, and maintain these systems. This is exactly what most Democrats I know support.
A wall is more of a message than an effective way of controlling illegal immigration. It would also be an ecological disaster, in that it would prevent many species from migrating and create increased inbreeding of species.
Cullen Writes Added Dec 20, 2018 - 8:09pm
This will be one of the biggest issues of the 21st century. (Already is if you look at the caravans coming from Central America and the refugee crisis into Europe in the last few years.) 
 
Population growth is exploding in many developing countries around the world. In Western countries people aren't having enough kids to even keep the population growing at all. If Western countries stopped all immigration, their populations would stagnate, if not go down. 
 
But...if millions of people in many developing countries are living in squalor and the average Joe in Europe or the U.S. (or Australia) is living comparatively in luxury, at what point does it get weird to keep out people who just want a roof over their head and 3 square meals and often are hard-working?
 
It's becoming a complex issue. And this sort of thing WAS one of the reasons for the fall of Rome. (Bear with me.) There were barbarian tribes living in Germany and Eastern Europe who were slowly being pushed into the Roman Empire by the Huns (Mongol people from Asia) from the East. So the barbarians started invading having nothing left to lose. 
Ken Added Dec 20, 2018 - 9:21pm
Friends I know who profess to be Democrats and have had discussions about this subject with in no way endorse "open borders"
 
They aren't talking about the average democrat - they are talking about the elected democrats.  How many times do I have to post you quote after quote of elected democrat leaders openly calling for open borders?
 
If we are going to implement cost-effective border protection, it would best be done by using technology,such as drones, satellites, enhanced sensors, and increasing the staffing to implement, operate, and maintain these systems.
 
Absolutely false.  A wall would be far more cost effecting with less recurring fees.  That said, how exactly is a satellite going to deter someone it spies crossing the border - do you know how much it costs to build and launch a satellite?  I do - my brother organizes all of that for the U.S.
 
A wall is more of a message than an effective way of controlling illegal immigration
 
How do you know since it has never been tried?  What we are doing today isn't working, and even if it is just sending a message - let's hope it is received and taken to heart. 
 
People don't have the right to walk into my home and eat my food just because they are hungry.
 
It would also be an ecological disaster, in that it would prevent many species from migrating and create increased inbreeding of species.
 
Same thing degrowther environmentalists said about the Alaska Pipeline and every other technological item they disagreed with.  And they have been proven wrong every time.  Caribou in Alaska are thriving and simply altered their migration habits.
 
You are always great on talking points, but you are also always short on facts.
Bill H. Added Dec 20, 2018 - 10:58pm
 
Ken, the only "facts" you will ever accept are "facts" that meet your beliefs or platform views.
If a Democrat President had been elected and proposed building a wall, I know god damn well you would be the first one out here to oppose it.
Gerrilea Added Dec 20, 2018 - 11:08pm
Riley ---
 
"...the Republican party would put an end to most illegal immigration if they could.
 
--Reagan gave amnesty to anyone who came here before 1982. Which was the green light for millions more to come here.
--Bush II proposed changes to immigration law to make it easier for illegals to come here and work!
--Senator Orrin Hatch, Republican, introduced the Dream Act in 2001.
 
Clinton, yes Clinton's Immigration Act of 1996 gave funding for a border fence and gave amnesty to illegal immigrants who had committed any crimes prior to April 1st, 1997.
 
Over the past 30+ yrs both parties gave millions of illegals amnesty.
 
Just maybe they're using "illegal immigration" to keep themselves in power with the false divide BUT both understand that our fertility rates have been dropping for the past 30+ yrs and now are below replacement levels.
 
Why I stated at the outset that I'd respectfully disagree with your position here today.  I lived through this history and recall it very well.
 
Bill H. Added Dec 21, 2018 - 1:17am
 
Ask the CEO of any large company that relies on contractors to perform construction, plant maintenance, infrastructure improvements, or other comparable work if they want to see a wall built. If they are totally honest, they will say NO.
 
Ward Tipton Added Dec 21, 2018 - 3:55am
"only Democrats could believe America does not have enough lawyers"
 
The last time I checked any figures ... which was back in the eighties, there was approximately one lawyer for every three hundred people. Far too many. Then there was the warning of Ben Franklin about people of title ... which has of course, gone unheeded. 
Flying Junior Added Dec 21, 2018 - 4:09am
If Democrats had their way right now they would welcome EVERYONE in the current caravan, without even making them stop and identify themselves. 
 
Riley,
 
This is the entire problem in a nutshell.  There is zero evidence that even ten or twenty democrats believe this ridiculous point of view.  The reason that you believe it is because this is what you have been told by the RW media.  So the entire argument is moot, because you have led with a false or erroneous statement.
Flying Junior Added Dec 21, 2018 - 4:12am
I do wish we could put an end to this by allowing the Democrats and all their supporters to sponsor all the immigrants they want with THEIR OWN MONEY. 
 
Actually democrats and republicans are sharing this burden.  Some do it through NGOs or charities.  Some do it through their local churches.  Doctors and support staff volunteer their own time and travel south of the border when needed.
 
Not every republican is a reactionary bigot.  Many republicans are wonderful, loving people.
Nobody's Sweetheart Added Dec 21, 2018 - 5:02am
Once they all figure out what a shithole America has become (thanks to them), they'll start going to China. GOOD!
George N Romey Added Dec 21, 2018 - 7:38am
Both parties want illegal immigrants. Both parties want cheap labor for their political contributors but the Democrats want to turn them into US citizens for votes.
Riley Brown Added Dec 21, 2018 - 11:15am
Ken just because the Republicans aren't a 100% united group doesn't mean the vast majority of them don't support the official Republican stand on the wall.  
 
I am sure there are lots of Republicans and Democrat who buy into their party's official stand on every issue.  That doesn't change their party's OFFICIAL POSITIONS.
Riley Brown Added Dec 21, 2018 - 11:17am
Ken, I was no claiming the people who point at the stature of liberty and quote parts of the poem are right or understand our history, in fact I think they don't, but that is the position of many Democrats who don't think there should be anything called an illegal immigrant.
Riley Brown Added Dec 21, 2018 - 11:28am
Bill I don't know where you live but you have obviously not spent much time near that border.  It's not Alaska, there aren't migratory herds of animals that roam those parched deserts, and the border doesn't cross any rivers used by migratory fishes like Salmon, it's just a line in the dry dirt and sand.  Except where there are buildings close to it, or it's being farmed 99.9% of it has desert that looks identical on both sides of it.
 
There are huge migrations that go past there, one very soon will be Monarch Butterflies, but they don't care about a wall, and neither do all the migratory birds. 
 
I know, at one time I liked to ride dirt bikes down there.  Most of the year there is nothing and nobody for miles.  I did see lots of lizards, a few rattlesnakes and an abundance of rabbits that seemed to like to be chased with motorcycles.  I'd be riding and see them closing in on me from the side, and when they caught up with me they would run in front of me for a few seconds and then dart off the side into the bushes.  I swear they were having fun.
Riley Brown Added Dec 21, 2018 - 11:34am
Gerillea, I think history is important and it's true that in the past some very prominent Republicans like Reagan thought they could grant amnesty to those illegals already here at that time and then secure the border to prevent more illegal immigration.  Even Reagan didn't want illegal immigration.
 
Trump, and the rest of his parties majority are definitely not in favor of another round of amnesty and he got elected by saying he'd build a wall and secure the border.  If he doesn't have a strong enough political alliance to make it happen that doesn't mean he doesn't want to.
Bill H. Added Dec 21, 2018 - 11:42am
Check Pumas/Cougars/Foxes/Rabbits/Coyotes/etc.
Isolation of species can lead to extinction
Ward Tipton Added Dec 21, 2018 - 11:55am
So can rabid criminal action by drug cartels against those people trying to get across the border. Or do you wish to ignore the fact that so many of those crossing illegally will be subjected to violent criminal acts up to and including being murdered by the very people "helping" them? 
Ken Added Dec 21, 2018 - 12:52pm
Ken, the only "facts" you will ever accept are "facts" that meet your beliefs or platform views.
 
How do you know?  You've never posted one to challenge my view
Ken Added Dec 21, 2018 - 12:53pm
If a Democrat President had been elected and proposed building a wall, I know god damn well you would be the first one out here to oppose it.
 
Absolutely false, but a democrat president would never propose it so it is moot.  How come Shumer, Pelosi and all the other voted for the wall in 2006 but are against it now?
Ken Added Dec 21, 2018 - 12:55pm
--Reagan gave amnesty to anyone who came here before 1982. Which was the green light for millions more to come here.
 
Not true, Gerri.  He signed off on amnesty on the condition that democrats agree to build a wall, which Tip O'Neill promised to do.  As usual, the democrats never fulfilled their end of the bargain.
 
Reagan later said "That was the worst decision of my presidency"
 
Context matters.
Ward Tipton Added Dec 21, 2018 - 1:09pm
There was also a substantial compromise for the federal mental institutions that did not work out very well for the people. 
Gerrilea Added Dec 21, 2018 - 1:15pm
Ken--- What evidence can you provide to support your rewrite of history?
 
Reagan, in his own words, on a border wall:
 
"Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems? Make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit, and then, while they’re working and earning here, they’d pay taxes here. And when they want to go back, they can go back. They can cross. Open the borders both ways."
 
 
 
Gerrilea Added Dec 21, 2018 - 1:48pm
The Memory Of Immigration Reform:
 
It has become popular for Republican commentators to say Reagan was fooled by Democrats to grant amnesty in exchange for a false promise of tougher border control. But the legislation was pushed by members of both parties and its failure bears bipartisan fingerprints.
 
"It's revisionist history," said Demetrios Papademetriou, president of the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute. "The narrative is produced by people who have opposed reform."
 
I contend it wasn't a failure, they got what they wanted.  The destruction of unions and a slave-labor force willing to vote for socialization where We The People ensure the profits of private corporations by paying "the working poor" government benefits.
 
Gerrilea Added Dec 21, 2018 - 10:45pm
Mogg T--- Your canonization of Reagan is disingenuous. St Ronnie just doesn't change his, "I was out of the loop" and "I don't recall" fraud.
 
The solution "that was worked out" was the West accepting millions into their nations and destroying the very fabric of their societies.
 
Which in turn, finished off/demonized unionization in this nation after St. Ronnie successfully destroyed the Air Traffic Controller Union with scabs.
 
And as I still contend, that was the intent. Both "parties" got what they wanted. 
Bill H. Added Dec 21, 2018 - 11:12pm
Ken-
Bullshit!
Posted plenty, you simply ignored or deleted them.
Nobody's Sweetheart Added Dec 22, 2018 - 5:29am
I gotta agree with Gerrilea, and cannot improve upon her comment:
 
"Both sides want them here.  Democrats for the votes they'll allegedly get and Republicans enabling their corporate masters to feed off them as slave labor."
 
That's it, nicely encapsulated, in a nutshell.
 
 
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 22, 2018 - 5:32am
 nothing relevant to say and twice as much need to say it.
 
PAY attention everyone! This is the definition of the term " pot calling kettle black "
Gerrilea Added Dec 22, 2018 - 4:42pm
Mogg T--- Isn't it odd that you attack me personally whilst I attacked your arguments?
 
"...argumentative old biddie..."
 
I presented valid historical analysis and you call me names and then claim what I've stated is irrelevant.
 
Ugh, keep on keeping on.  Many here already see the truth for themselves.
 
Thanks guys for the support.
 
:)
 
Ryan Messano Added Dec 22, 2018 - 4:54pm
Note to all posters.  Unfortunately, WB has been infected with a very serious bug and virus.  It is  known as the Michkalattula virus, and is quite toxic to healthy conversations.  If you wish to have reasonable conversations, it is recommended to delete this troublesome virus QUICKLY when it appears on your post, to avoid noisome effects.  Thank you for your consideration, and I apologize about any inconvenience ridding yourself of this virus may cause you.  Either the Michkalattula virus will destroy WB or WB will destroy it.   Long live liberty, freedom, virtue, wisdom and Writer Beat!  Have a Happy Holiday Season!
Ryan Messano Added Dec 22, 2018 - 4:56pm
"...argumentative old biddie…"
A very worthy designation for the prissy Gerrilea, Mogg, my compliments.  
 
And your assessment of TBH is astute as well.  I suppose he'll be off to lissen to Pink Floyd soon, to revive his flagging spirits, either that or getting high as a kite. 
Gerrilea Added Dec 23, 2018 - 1:49am
Mogg T--- The comment has been deleted, either by you or the author of this article.  I've never witnessed the author deleting comments, even when they are heated and personal.  Instead Riley attempts to have a legitimate conversation with the poster(s) in question, to a point of having the patience of an angel. So, I must conclude you deleted your own posting.
 
Now you tell me to review that which you deleted.  ROFL.
 
Then you label your ad homimen as "colorful commentary". 
 
Who you zooming?  IS this comic relief night and I missed the memo???
 
And, for the record, yes I occasionally repeat myself, it seems I did so 3 times in the thread.  Go figure, I guess I believed the thoughts and ideas were worth it. OR because, in fact, the points raised were never addressed.
 
I'm pretty sure that's it.
 
 
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 23, 2018 - 5:08am
TBH, you cannot write a comment or article that is not built on what somebody else has said. You have workmanlike writing skill without purpose. 
 
then you've obviously not read my articles. as for my skills, well, I shall defer to the superior brilliance of your own flowery prose which you  so generously share with us every day. Thanks, shark boy. We're all better for it. 
John Minehan Added Dec 23, 2018 - 9:40am
"Mark Levin in the past couple of days even pointed out the actual job statistics don't back up what the democrats say.  the jobs "americans don't want to do"  maids are 51% citizens, waiters i think were 58%, taxi drivers 68% custodians 74% - he went through an entire list of those jobs "assumed" to be immigrant friendly."
 
Anecdotally, I'd question those statistics, a bit.
 
"Waiters" are usually locals in my experience, from what I hear from friends in the restaurant business or from what I have read (Anthony Bourdain's books, etc.). 
 
On the other hand, dishwashers, bus boys and people doing prep often are not.
 
Taxi drivers (or Uber drivers, since taxis are in decline) HAVE to have a US drivers' license (or have been in the US less than one year so that they can drive legally on a foreign one).
 
Does "maids" include baby-sitters, nannies, au pairs, etc.?  How about HHAs? 
 
How about carpenters and other laborers? 
John Minehan Added Dec 23, 2018 - 9:49am
Ken, I'm not knocking you (or Mark Levin) here.
 
One of my "pet rocks" is that statistics are good but you have to ask WHAT is being measured.
 
If quantitative data tell me one thing, but anecdotal observations tell me another, it might be worth revisiting what is being measured and how it is being measured.
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 23, 2018 - 10:03am
Which, John, is an excellent metric to follow when examining any poll
Ward Tipton Added Dec 23, 2018 - 10:10am
Poll a bunch of fishermen along any creek ... most are gonna lie anyhow ... just to keep their "trade secrets" a secret. 
 
Never trust the polls ... but more importantly, never trust those who commission them ... even if people did answer honestly, the polls are worded to provide the desired results. 
Ken Added Dec 24, 2018 - 4:34pm
JM - Carpenters were included, but I coudln't remember the statistic, so I didn't list it (it was somewhere in the high 50s or low 60s I think).  Laborers were not listed.  The point he was making was that the primary argument is that many of these "menial" type jobs are simply jobs americans won't do, and the point was not so much that they actually employed a majority of americans although according to the statistics he cited (it was from one of his books, but I don't have that particular book so I couldn't pick it up and quote it), but the fact that there clearly were a lot of Americans willing to do jobs that supposedly they were unwilling to do.  He was pointing out the dissonance in the democrat narrative vs reality about why these extra workers are so necessary to our economy.
 
The reality is, that as long as millions of foreign workers flow in we saturate the labor market and keep wages depressed and end up with more unemployed citizens as many foreign workers come in and specifically get paid less.  Particularly the H1B Visa where companies are bringing in foreigners to take jobs from Americans - and having those they are replacing train them in some circumstances (Disney was a big offender doing things like that)
Riley Brown Added Dec 24, 2018 - 6:05pm
John M, there are still large parts of America where illegals aren't common and the people who live in those places do everything.
 
They don't cry because there isn't anyone to do their janitorial work, they hire locals who aren't illegal.
 
Illegals on have a corner in the market where they live and are willing to work for the lowest wages.
 
Riley Brown Added Dec 24, 2018 - 6:10pm
Ken, I hate all the BS of the H1B visa plans because in reality most are not there to do jobs that Americans can't or won't do, they are there because they work for far less and put up with treatment that was not previously tolerable to the Americans who previously did that work.
 
I know people who have been displaced especially in the tech world.  They still know their jobs well, and want to do that work but have been replaced by people from other countries like India and Pakistan, who gladly work 12+ hour days 8 days a week and almost never take time off, for much less than my friends once made doing the same work.  Many of the foreigners know they have to supper please their employees or they and their families will have to go home. 
 
Without the H1B Visas, my friends would still have those jobs.
Ward Tipton Added Dec 25, 2018 - 1:29am
And would not have to train their foreign replacements.
Ken Added Dec 26, 2018 - 12:24pm
Riley, I don't disagree with the H1B view you have - the jobs that Americans "won't" do - is a myth, but I was maybe not as clear as I should have been that the H1B problem vs the low wage workers doing those menial jobs are different issue that lead to the same low results.  AA flooded labor market and one of the primary reasons wages have been stagnant for decades.  The left would blame republican economic problems while they keep the borders open and saturate the job market at both the low and middle income levels.  That also shows why the rich get richer and low and middle class stagnate.  The H1B folks coming in and aren't taking senior management jobs so that labor pool stays small and wages increase.
 
Not that that is an actual issue in economic terms as the economic pie (or GDP) continues to increase, but that adds fuel to the left's lie about how disproportionate incomes are evil
Riley Brown Added Dec 26, 2018 - 10:20pm
Ken, strange to me is how many poor people are staunch Democrats even though the Democrat party is in favor of almost unlimited immigration from poor countries with people who are the most likely to take their jobs by working for less. 
 
If your poor and don't want foreigners taking your job by offering to work for min wage without benefits, the Democratic party isn't on your side.
The Burghal Hidage Added Dec 27, 2018 - 3:21am
SHH-shh, you shush that talk Riley! Damn it! Now they'll start leaving the plantation!
James Added Jan 12, 2019 - 3:13am
For the most part I agree with you here, though I think you let the Republicans off a little easy. Yes, there's been tough rhetoric from many Republicans for decades now, but little action. Deliberately so. {Note: there used to be some tough rhetoric from Democrats, too.}
 
I put the chief reason for the lack of action by Republicans on the substantial influence of pro-business lobbyists, like the Chamber of Commerce. Their motivation is, as you suggested, the suppression of wages. A desperate workforce is great for the bottom line. I think neoliberal Democrats are motivated by this, as well, because they get plenty of corporate funding, too, but they are obviously looking to exploit this culturally as well. They see shifting demographics and, rightly or not, perceive that a very tolerant stance on illegal immigration will drive a wedge between Latinos and the GOP.
 
Actually, political expediency is where the two parties have a lot in common. Neither side want to meaningfully address the issue because it's a great political football to keep in play. It animates the base of both parties, one party pushes security, the other pushes charity, both stoke fear.
 
Democrats would never admit to what you outlined here but I agree, it is effectively what they support. It's become ever more obvious over the past couple of years in particular. Perhaps the most glaring illustration is how the rhetoric by Democrats has now moved into the realm of morality. They say a wall is "immoral". To me this implies any current barriers {which Democrats have supported/funded} are immoral as well, and since the function of a barrier is to impede illegal crossings then it suggests border patrol, surveillance, etc. would be immoral also. It raises the question why would they support any border security at all. Or do they?
 
I should add I'm not a proponent of a 2000-mile border wall. It's incredibly expensive, impractical, some private property sites will be dragged out in the courts for years, and it will do nothing to address the nearly half of illegal aliens in this country who entered legally.
 
I think the focus must be on reducing the incentives which draw in illegal immigrants — welfare aid & illegal hiring. One problem I have with this imbroglio over the wall is that it is creating a huge distraction from that.