Racism is back on our streets and football terraces!

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Yes the ugliness of racism is rearing its head again throughout Europe and in the States. Bananas are being thrown. The yobs are chanting.

I thought we'd grown out of all that. But fascists are marching on our streets again making their Heil Hitler salutes. Islamophobia is mainstream and sanctioned as OK. Antisemitism is on the rise, hate crime is through the roof.

How have we got to this in a fairly settled multicultural society?

 

How are those racist thugs on the terraces thinking? We have truly multicultural teams now. Many of our best players are Black or Asian. Mo Salah is probably the best player in the world and a Muslim. How on earth have we arrived at the resurrection of racism?

 

So what is the cause?

 

Is it a direct result of radical Islam?

 

Is it due to Islamic terrorism?

 

Is it a result of mass migration?

 

Has it come out of the world recession?

 

Is it the rise of divisive populism scapegoating minorities?

 

Is it due to inequalities created by globalism?

 

Is it Brexit and Trump empowering xenophobia?

 

Is it the result of a decade of Tory austerity?

Is it tribalism creating division?

 

Is it a failure of integration?

 

Has global warming played a part?

 

Is overpopulation a driving force?

 

Is it a failure of education systems?

 

Is global poverty to blame?

 

I suppose the most important question of all is how do we eradicate this ignorant mentality?

Comments

opher goodwin Added Jan 3, 2019 - 7:10am
Perhaps this year we will get back to a level of sanity?
Stone-Eater Added Jan 11, 2019 - 8:03am
The poorer a society becomes, the more racist it becomes, the more the natives try to defend their home country against invaders. It's like in nations: If you have no enemy, you can't make anyone else responsible for your own failures.
 
And we in the West have the least reason to complain. We can inform ourselves, we are somewhat educated, and we can vote. And if we don't figure how to use these instruments properly, it's not the fault of any immigrant or refugee but ourselves.
 
Dino Manalis Added Jan 11, 2019 - 8:38am
 We should stay safe, but racism has to be swept away as much as possible.
Webmaster Added Jan 11, 2019 - 9:11am
"Is it a direct result of radical Islam?"

Suffice it to recall how Sharia law was imposed in London to answer this question in the affirmative. It is also the fault of the authorities, who in time did not put a barrier on the path of radical Islam to the European countries. London's 'Muslim Patrol' aims to impose Sharia law in East London
Stone-Eater Added Jan 11, 2019 - 9:12am
Riley Brown Added Jan 11, 2019 - 10:20am
Before Obama ran for President I thought most racism was dying out because I saw little evidence of it everywhere I went in the US.  There were still poor and very violent black neighborhoods that I wouldn't advise anyone to walk though but racism had little to do with that cultural behavior.
 
When Obama started running I saw a resurgence of racism start up.  At first it was from Democrats who called anyone who didn't like Obama a racist, and quickly started alienating everyone they demonized.  Once Obama was in office there seemed to be a lot of dissatisfaction in the Black community because they refocused their attention on all the inequalities they preceived, and expected
Riley Brown Added Jan 11, 2019 - 10:28am
the Obama administration would correct.  When things like unemployment got even worse they blamed racism and White people all over were demonized on a scale we'd not seen for decades.   Now that Trump is on the scene things got even worse. 
 
The Democratic leadership has pretty much declared all things Trump including almost half the country that supports him, are all RACISTS, and they don't do it quietly, they scream it from the rooftops.  Democrats tend to be loud and get in your face, and Republicans tend to be more private about their political opinions, but the damage still gets done. 
 
We've done more to set back racial harmony in this country in the last 10 years than we did to erase it in the previous 30 years.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 11, 2019 - 11:30am
Create new governmental bureaucracies ... that always works right? 
 
What? 
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:00pm
Stone - yes I think racism is stoked up by fear! When people feel their lifestyle under threat they blame others. They don't tend to blame the real culprits though do they?
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:02pm
Dino - I agree. Racism has no place in a civilised country. We should judge people on their character and not their colour or race.
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:05pm
Opes - I think racism has its seeds in ancient tribal behaviour. When we were hunter gatherers we had to have sufficient territory to meet our needs. That meant keeping other groups out. The more different a group the more they were distrusted.
It takes time to breed those primitive urges out of people. It takes time to trust!
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:08pm
Web - Racism has certainly increased due to Muslim terrorism and these radicalised extremists. They are a tiny minority though.
This is not what is happening in London. You'll find shit like this all over the world. 
Most Muslims don't support this extremism.
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:10pm
Web - it is right-wing propaganda groups who are trying to exaggerate these problems. This is how these groups flourish. Radical Islam is a problem but not to a great extent. It needs tackling.
The Owl Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:12pm
Opes...Stop it.  Stop it right now.
 
Reason and logic have nothing to do with either the problem or the solutions.  You should know that by now! 
 
And Opher,  The answer to your question is "all of the above" once you take out the derogatory slam at the Torys.  Part of the reason why you are seeing some prosperity these days is that the austerity has flushed out the drags on economic development and restored a level of confidence in the consumer to re-energize one of the most important elements of economic growth.
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:12pm
Riley - It was the same in the UK. Racism was very much dying out but Brexit has empowered racists. They feel they have been vindicated. I perceive the same in the US with Trump - he has energised a very unpleasant minority of fascists.
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:13pm
Ward - create an ethos through the world that considers racism a vile primitive and disgusting thing and have governments support that.
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:21pm
Riley - I do not agree that this is the product of any one party. The Nazis, KKK and White Supremacists are certainly not Democrats! I think you are misrepresenting. 
I had great hopes for Obama but it created a backlash of racist against him and made people of colour more aware of the discrimination that was holding them back. In that way I think it did make matters worse.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:23pm
"Ward - create an ethos through the world that considers racism a vile primitive and disgusting thing and have governments support that."
 
I would agree with the first part, though the second I cannot help but believe is delusional. Government supports only that which supports government. When they get into the mix, they invariably screw things up, whether intentionally or inadvertently ... often in direct conflict with whatever their presupposition may ostensibly have been to begin with. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:24pm
Riley - BTW - half the country do not support Trump. He is the most unpopular President ever with an approval rating of 39%. That means 61% think he's crap.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:27pm
@Opher. You would have to give me some parallel with the Brixton and other race riots that blacks had to take to fight racism. Who are the ones against the Muslims, are there many Blacks? Who are the ones mostly against gays? Is it church loving folks? Fear plays a role in one's attitudes and perceptions.  There is an underlying current in the US that foreigners are coming here not wanting to learn the language and coming with their perverted religious practices. 
 
At a time, it was disease-carrying immigrants coming to the US. Now Trump is speaking of the rapist and murderers, Trumping up fear.
There was also a time when welfare entitled, job, and man or woman stealing immigrants were ostracized in the US.
 
I will follow the discussion to further elevate my understanding of the matter.  I entertain certain bias regarding light skinned refugees coming here and getting employment over Blacks. It was a fact that Caribbean Blacks were employed over Black Americans, who were seen as lazy. Perhaps some of what I sated mirror the root of the problem in the UK.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:36pm
"Riley - BTW - half the country do not support Trump. He is the most unpopular President ever with an approval rating of 39%. That means 61% think he's crap."
 
And our current cackle of corrupt and complicit congress critters still has single digit approval rates if I am not mistaken, and yet surprise, surprise, surprise, they keep getting reelected. 
 
Besides, there is no need to worry. Those very same polls said trump will never win the nomination, much less the presidency ... there is no need to worry and no way those polls could be wrong or biased ... oh wait. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:37pm
Ward - leaders create an ethos - whether that is in a country, a sports team or an organisation. When you change the boss you change the ethos.
The guy at the top sets the tone!
Bill H. Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:39pm
 
Riley - When Obama was President, the racists became absolutely furious. Trump used this to his advantage and has been fueling it ever since.
Is this not obvious?
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:47pm
Dr. Rupert Green - this is a complex issue. Racism used to be focussed against Blacks and Pakistanis. Now it has switched to Muslims and Eastern Europeans due to terrorism and mass immigration.
Muslims feel persecuted and oppressed. The result is greater radicalisation and less integration. They feel marginalised, unwanted and attacked. We now get Muslims wearing Burqas and going about in traditional clothes instead of integrating. We get vigilante groups patrolling because of attacks from fascists. It has created more racism and divided the community.
Muslims only make up 5% but they are highly visible and tend to collect together in areas (for protection) - the result is that they appear to present a bigger threat.
The right-wing groups exaggerate the problem, select damaging material and try to drum up anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim sentiment.
Likewise with Eastern Europeans. They come over in large numbers. Consequently there are many who do not speak English and many Eastern European shops that have opened. It spooks the indigenous population who feel pushed out - and they have been in a number of areas.
 
Ward Tipton Added Jan 11, 2019 - 12:49pm
"When you change the boss you change the ethos."
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. 
 
"When Obama was President, the racists became absolutely furious.
Is this not obvious?"
 
Yeah it was actually. "The police acted stupidly" ... "Black Lives Matter ... because All Lives Matter is racist." "The first time I have ever been proud of my country" ... I do not think they could have made their contempt any more obvious, or served any better to increase the divide between the people. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 1:14pm
Ward - as I remember it a lot of Republican's lost their seats in Congress. It is now a Democratic controlled house isn't it?
We'll wait and see what happens to Trump. I don't think the American people really want more division and hatred do they? He is the most divisive person there has ever been. He'll start a fight in a china shop if he thinks the broken crockery favours him.
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 1:17pm
Bill - I certainly agree. Trump has very cleverly used the fury of the racists and the fury of those left behind by globalism to create a base sufficiently large to elect him. He has effectively stoked their fears and hate and used it to energise them.
But it is still a limited base that requires the complacency of the minority in order to gain sufficient clout.
I don't think the majority will be so complacent twice. They too have been energised by Trump's actions.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 11, 2019 - 1:23pm
I seriously doubt you have heard me in support of Trump as a person, though anyone who can piss off both the democrats and republicans to the degree that he has, does give me some hope. 
 
The house can only begin the impeachment proceedings, it will need the senate to complete such a process? 
 
All politicians are by nature, divisive, and also sycophantic, and generally narcissistic and sociopathic ... this is not a surprise. Obama was no better or worse in many ways. Whoever comes along next will be no better and no worse ... which is exactly why I will never have any real faith in the ability of an ever-changing government fixing the problems that you and I must deal with on a daily basis. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 1:24pm
Ward - no - the new boss is only the same as the old boss in some ways - they both support the same top 10% and global elitism. 
Obama was eloquent, intelligent and good at politics and diplomacy.
Trump is crass, vacillates, crude and has pissed off all his allies.
Obama was received by the public in Europe with warmth and enthusiasm.
Trump is perceived as a thug and a clown and was received with jeers, riots, protests and dislike.
The fact that Trump harnessed some of the worst elements of American society, the racists and sexists, and panders to them is highly regrettable and says a lot about ordinary Americans. They allowed a man of such dubious morals to be elected.
Of course all lives matter but right now it is still blacks who are being shot by police, discriminated against and not given a fair chance.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 11, 2019 - 1:30pm
Uhm, Have you uhm, ever seen uhm, Obama speak without uhm without a teleprompter? Eloquent? Hahahahahahahahahaha An excellent reader perhaps. 

Crass? The cops acted stupidly. All lives matter is racist. What about his comments on Immigration that so many people find offensive ... until they discover the quote is from Obama? 
 
Diplomatic? You mean like receiving a Nobel Peace Prize for droning nations where Trump only implemented a temporary travel ban to perform the same background checks that we do for American citizens? 
 
Is Trump all of these things as well? Absolutely. Part and parcel with the job ... which again, is why I see it needing to be restrained, not allowed to rule over us. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 1:38pm
Ward - I've seen him speak many times without a prompter - always smooth and eloquent.
Diplomatic - as with not interfering with the politics in countries of his allies, not pissing allies off, not making off the cuff decisions without consulting, doing things without understanding the intricacies of the situation and thinking that his own intuition is better than trained experts.
Black lives matter may well have a racist element to it but I contend that it should not have been necessary in the first place. It is an angry reaction to an abomination.
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 1:40pm
Ward - I said the leader sets the tone. The tone Trump sets is not normal and it is inciting some very base and violent responses. He is unleashing hatred and using it. That is not normal, not par for the course and not good.
George N Romey Added Jan 11, 2019 - 1:43pm
What's Brexit have to do with racism?  Racism has been dying out.  20 years ago if a dozen moronic clan members wanted to hold a rally in butt fuck Mississippi it was pretty much ignored in the national media.  The local television network might cover it in a 60 second segment.
 
Today the MSM descends like all hell is coming lose.  What for a few dozen dumb asses in their brown shirts yelling Hail Hitler.  And of course this must be because of President Trump.  Again people need to go to a library and start reading some books.  
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 1:46pm
Brexit has unleashed a huge increase in hate crime George. It was focussed on immigrants and has given an excuse to those who are xenophobic and racist. A similar phenomenon to that whipped up by Trump against Mexicans and Muslims.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 11, 2019 - 2:06pm
"Ward - I've seen him speak many times without a prompter - always smooth and eloquent."
 
Please do tell where? He even used a teleprompter in an address to an elementary school.
 
"Diplomatic - as with not interfering with the politics in countries of his allies, not pissing allies off, not making off the cuff decisions without consulting, doing things without understanding the intricacies of the situation and thinking that his own intuition is better than trained experts."
 
Does the Arab Spring ring any bells? Crimea? Concerted efforts to influence elections in Israel? Any of that ring any bells? 
 
Racist reactions are one thing ... but when the president jumps in and takes side, this is engaging in racist and divisive behavior. Neither one is any better or any worse than the other. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 11, 2019 - 2:32pm
Racism is the strongest political vector for the left and they preach about racism every day using racism as a platform. 
 
Ryan Messano
 
"He's [Opher] resorted to the normal leftist end game of censoring ideas he doesn't like, while he pretends to be interested in solving societal problems."
 
He leads with anti-capitalist threats and suborns racism while refusing to attack the left on any issue. Socialism is like Pampers for him--the solution to all problems.
 
The antics of a common stooge. 
 
 
Spartacus Added Jan 11, 2019 - 2:34pm
Oh boy.  I had thought Opher had gotten past his fixation on "racism".  I had hoped he finally had understood that he cannot define racism even though he frivolously labels people who disagree with him, "racists".
 
Opher, you cannot define what you're talking about.  You have no evidence of these people discriminating solely due to ethnic differences.  Additionally, racism makes nearly zero sense in our mixed-race cultures.  Everyone has mixed ethnic backgrounds.  
 
The "racism" label is for an older generation who just do not know any better and haven't the ability to change their views.
Riley Brown Added Jan 11, 2019 - 6:05pm
Opher,  the KKK was a Democratic institution which enjoyed great popularity in some parts of the US a long time ago, but now they and all the white supremacists are pretty much irrelevant fringe groups with so few members that politically speaking they have no influence.  There are no parts of the country where they are not despised by most of the public.
 
I am sure the KKK would not have approved of Trump, he seems to fond of Jews to suite their sensibilities.  If some think some of what Trump has done about illegal immigration is a good thing, I wouldn't take that as an "endorsement", it means as much as them saying they like Ford trucks. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 6:39pm
Opes - I've never had much respect for the guys at the top. I've never thought they represented me. They represent the money and always have. But some are still better than others.
Trump is the one who has cynically exploited the hatred and division for his own ends.
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 6:41pm
rycK - still in denial of what is in front of your eyes. Racism is real.
I stand for fairness and equality. That is what Republicans do not seem to like. I believe that comes out of some arrogance and sense of superiority.
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 6:43pm
So William you really think that this multicultural society of yours has made racism obsolete. I wish. Try telling that to Lyndsey. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 6:46pm
Mogg - not for me Mogg. Racism has its roots in hunter/gatherer tribalism. We can do better than that. We can become civilised.
I agree with MLK - we should judge people on their character not religion, colour or creed. Unfortunately, just when things were getting a lot better, Brexit and Trump have cynically exploited divisions to create more hatred and racism is worse again.
Shame.
But I know that, through good education, we can create more understanding, tolerance and abolish racism.
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 6:49pm
Riley - that may be so but there are more fascists marching in the US and Europe than for a long time. Hate crime is increasing. Fascism is increasing. Racism is increasing.
The KKK do support Trump - https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16138358/charlottesville-protests-david-duke-kkk
They need opposing. Fascism and racism are stains on humanity.
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 6:51pm
William - BTW - I'm not fixated on racism. I just think it stinks and when I see or hear about it I am disgusted.
It is getting worse and it needs highlighting.
Are you suggesting it doesn't exist? Or are you just OK with it?
opher goodwin Added Jan 11, 2019 - 7:00pm
William - 'prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.'
It is both easy to define and recognise. Racism is pure bullshit. There are good and bad in all races, intelligent and stupid.
We're all one people.
And I do not go around labelling people racist but I sure call them out if they make racist statements or do racist acts.
Trump has certainly deployed racism and racism was deployed in the Brexit campaign. That is not to suggest that all Trumpists are racist or all Brexiteers though.
Jeff Michka Added Jan 11, 2019 - 9:54pm
Geeze, don't ever express any view, unless pre approved by other WB rightists, like ol Fartacus, and then there's Riley Skidmark.  Now ol Riley KNOWS racism is the pervue of democrats, and like Sutrino, want us to believe the KKK is a institution belonging to Ds.  And David Puke is....a D?  Dull blown, like other former Rs, now a T.  And those folks are just good white people, with torches chanting "Jews will not replace Us."  It's my profound hope Jews, Latinos, Blacks, anyone  replace them all, and send them scurrying to apply for food stamps.  Theses "good white people" have claimed for years that minorities getting food stamps were buying Cadillacs, so it won't be a problem for the white folks to get along on SNAP.  And of course the rightists want to believe racism in the States ended when Barack Obama was elected, yet the screaming racist fascists can't still wrap their empty little heads around the fact we did have a black president, who was partly hamstrung on being more forceful because then   He'd be viewed as just another "angry black guy" and further use it as an excuse.  If he had gotten angry, good white people would be now rounding up blacks and either interning them or just shooting more of them as a matter of "national security."  Racism is also scapegoating, and gee....who is being used as good white people scapegoats, Latinos who good white people will tell you have taken "Their" country, and "their jobs."  Uh huh.  All those good white people would be picking lettuce and cleaning toilets, if it weren't for those "invaders."  So we need to get rid of them and all MAGA up.  Toilets in Trump prperties and resorts are going to be a little dirty.   You good white people bought the MAGA lie, lock stock and barrel 'cause you're sooo scared. LOL
Katharine Otto Added Jan 12, 2019 - 1:43am
Opher,
My two cents' worth, for what it's worth:  I think we live in a more interconnected world than ever before, with media spotlighting people of all persuasions.  Also, there are mass migrations of people being displaced from their homelands, so we've become more aware of differences, because they are in our faces.  It's easier to claim to love someone (or group) you've never met than to have compassion for the strangers in your midst.  
 
All of your suggestions probably play a role, but I suspect that in the past racism was more covert, with ethnic neighborhoods, for instance.  With more congestion, people have less elbow room, and that makes them "touchy."  Also, the media likes to harp on racism to generate ratings.
Doug Plumb Added Jan 12, 2019 - 5:02am
Who says "more racism" and how do they justify making that statement ?
  Who benefits from racism ?  Answer: the folks who want to destroy America, its common law and bring Talmudic Noahide laws into practise, since their already on the books.
  Of course AGW has something to do with it 8-)
opher goodwin Added Jan 12, 2019 - 5:03am
Opes - I tend to watch either BBC or Channel 4 and back that up with the I newspaper and the internet.
Oh yes - the media is all run by the wealthy and hence the spin they put on things. I always take that into account which is why I like to hear things from the horses mouth - i.e. I go to hear Corbyn speak.
I am most comfortable with close friends but can usually tell immediately when I meet someone if we are going to get on. I can form very strong bonds instantaneously with some people.
Doug Plumb Added Jan 12, 2019 - 5:03am
I've spelt things atrociously in that last paragraph. Excuse me while I give myself ten lashings.
opher goodwin Added Jan 12, 2019 - 5:07am
Jeff - yes I do find it very Orwellian the way that fascism and the KKK are projected as products of the left. It seems there is a lack of understanding of history.
Racism is alive and well and growing again. It needs highlighting, exposing and dealing with. Maybe the next President will have the sensibilities?
Doug Plumb Added Jan 12, 2019 - 5:07am
Opher, when the TV says that all racism is the product of White people and that all White people need to be killed, people like you will go along with it. But really it will just be an ostensible reason to execute an operation already required by law, kill all the Christians (Noahide).
So who's the raciest racists of them all ? Can you say it ? Are we allowed ? Or is it something we just shouldn't talk about - for fear of being racist?
opher goodwin Added Jan 12, 2019 - 5:11am
Katharine - I think in the past people were more segregated and so were not exposed to the racism that created that segregation. The blacks and Latinos lived in their areas and the whites lived in theirs. The workplace was also segregated.
Mass migration has created problems, politics has demonised people and integration means there is more contact. I think that has created more of an overt threat. Many whites are now aware that they are on the verge of becoming a minority and no longer have privilege and that scares them.
Doug Plumb Added Jan 12, 2019 - 5:42am
What white privilege? Give an example Opher.
Stone-Eater Added Jan 12, 2019 - 5:46am
Oph
 
Racism will never stop unless people a) have the interest b) the money to travel, live and work abroad and develop (or keep) an open mind away from consumerism and MSM prejudices.
 
And that will never happen. Live with it.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 12, 2019 - 6:08am
I am still waiting for answers ... apparently in vain.
George N Romey Added Jan 12, 2019 - 6:30am
Where is the factual evidence racism is growing? Opher is another sheep listening to MSM and the boogeymen. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 12, 2019 - 7:04am
Doug - Private education, old boy network, discrimination in employment - using contacts and prejudice to ensure that your children and relatives and friends have an unfair advantage.
opher goodwin Added Jan 12, 2019 - 7:07am
Stone - I don't want to live with it. It is improving. In my lifetime it has got a lot better. In my school it was almost non-existent. You don't get things better without a struggle. That struggle is worthwhile.
opher goodwin Added Jan 12, 2019 - 7:12am
Ward - when he visited Britain and talked to children and parliament there were no teleprompters. He spoke brilliantly and straight off the cuff.
I am quite sure that he was active in interfering with places where the US has economic or strategic interest - the ME, Israel and Crimea come into that category.
Interfering in those situations is not racist. Taking sides is not racist. It might be unwanted or even wrong though.
opher goodwin Added Jan 12, 2019 - 7:35am
George - the statistics on hate crime, the increase in members of fascist groups, the evidence from people I know, the election of various overtly racist groups into government throughout Europe. WB is no exception - it is a microcosm of what is happening. Since I've been on here the intolerance and rhetoric has risen.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 12, 2019 - 7:54am
I seriously doubt it
 
I tried to pull just a single example but there are so many ... including requiring a teleprompter for a talk to elementary school students or kindergarten students here. 
 
Inciting civil unrest and the overthrow of duly elected leaders in sovereign nations MIGHT BE unwanted or wrong? Hahahahahaha
opher goodwin Added Jan 12, 2019 - 8:07am
Ward - I think you will find that is precisely what the USA has been doing in Africa, South America and ME for the past seventy years. Why pick on Obama? He did less than most of the others. 
Stone-Eater Added Jan 12, 2019 - 8:20am
Oph
 
Strange.....here in Switzerland I don't notice racism but only scepticism against immigrants of any sort. And it's certainly not directed to skin color or where people come from.
 
What we can't stand are stupid idiots who think they can do here what they want without respecting the culture of the people. And these are not black people but whites like us, mostly from the Balcans. When you make the effort to integrate, you have no problem.
 
And the same counts for me when I'm in Africa. If I don't integrate, I get problems.
 
What's so difficult about that ? People who are too stupid to figure that should stay home, whatever their reason of wanting to leave is.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 12, 2019 - 8:45am
"Ward - I think you will find that is precisely what the USA has been doing in Africa, South America and ME for the past seventy years. Why pick on Obama? He did less than most of the others. "
 
If you have read my comments, you know I have belittled every one of them from the French policies and oppression in Africa, to the Indian oppression there and to a lesser degree, Indian and Chinese influence and activities here in the Philippines ... and of course against the Spanish and American occupations here and the creation of the first American police state here ... and then moved into the efforts to divide us by race, rather than realizing that we all have common ground and common interests ... by and large ... The American and Soviet intrusions into the Middle East ... and let us not forget the Eurocentric Hispanic population from the carnage wrought by the Conquistadores from Hispaniola or Spain ... those Hispanics who claim rightful ownership of the Americas despite being every bit as Eurocentric as the oft maligned white male. 
 
Stone - The key there is integrating, and most of those interviewed in the Caravan I have seen, have no desire to integrate into any American society ... the same is by and true largely with the Muslims and Chinese and a great many other groups, though segments of their societies will integrate as necessary, in order to build their own social and cultural enclaves ... but when they begin demanding the implementation of their own laws it becomes patently obvious there is no intent to integrate, but to implement their own social order here. 
Steel Breeze Added Jan 12, 2019 - 10:41am
there exists no greater promoter of divisiveness (?) than the blathering idiot box that folk stare at slackjawed.....
Benjamin Goldstein Added Jan 12, 2019 - 11:17am
I don't see many banana throwers in the streets of the UK and don't know whether the problem is actually as big as you make it seem, but a start to solve all problems is to get rid of socialists, of course. ;-)
Stone-Eater Added Jan 12, 2019 - 12:01pm
Opes
 
The real problem is the lack of true assimilation of new populations.
 
That's what I say. If some newcomers could behave in Africa as they do here in Africa they would not last weeks.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Jan 12, 2019 - 2:28pm
By the way there is a good video of NYE 2018/19 in Cologn with English subtitles that show how obscene some of these migrants behave. You see an unedited situation where they throw around fire crackers in an underground station, destroying the cable work by shere vandalism and then start a brawl in a wagon. All in a time span of 12 minutes.
https://youtu.be/KxJZmyvyDCU
Ward Tipton Added Jan 12, 2019 - 3:41pm
They are just making expressions of their cultural heritage Benjamin Goldstein ... is that not what the press would have us believe? 
George N Romey Added Jan 12, 2019 - 3:48pm
There is zero empirical evidence in the US that hate crimes are on the rise.  For the MSM people like Opher are a godspend because he believes anything they tell him.  He doesn't have the intellectual capacity to think ideas through.
 
I remember in the 60s and 70s what the US was like.  The "N" word was often used in the workplace and within communities.  Today no one would ever utter the "N" word in the workplace unless they wanted to be fired.
 
Opher is trapped in this 1960s time wrap never realizing his generation were the big sell outs.  I work with Millennials and understandably they think the entire peace and love was a joke.  Just a reason to do drugs and have sex.
 
Notice the Baby Boomers were the generation that destroyed the middle class.  Became obsessed with making money.  The biggest draft dodgers like Bush and Cheney became the biggest neocons to feather their own nest. If Opher is upset with the direction of the world he should blame all his ex hippie friends that somehow end up liking the dollar sign much more than the peace sign.
 
 
Benjamin Goldstein Added Jan 12, 2019 - 4:13pm
Ward, yes, the media is becoming ever more ludicrous and they try to make people believe that.
 
Romey, it is so hard to grasp what line of thinking really led to the current authoritarianism and the race obsession. I think your love and peace hippie hunch is a good point. I had once an article here, "Europe is radical", that simplifies it a bit in saying that basically all leaders are now Gill Stein and the Greens. There was once a dystopian novel, written by feminist icon Fay Weldon, that illustrated it in a funny manner: "Chelcot Crescent". It's a fun read and spot on. 
 
Because really the culture that it all sprang from is probably Woodstock. It isn't those who study their Marx stuff really. It was the socialist agit prop pop culture. It claimed to be against war and was just against America. Leading members of the German green party still brag today how they smuggled weapons to Latin America to topple pro-American regimes in favor of anti-American regimes. I would even say that Opher does not fall into this type of socialist, but I haven't paid enough attention to really judge.
 
The most devastating blow was the reap of the word democracy. It once, at some period at least in the early 20th century, was understood by all sides to mean the system created by the American founding fathers based on British and ancient ideas and traditions. Yet, the socialists in France and Germany have filled that word with very different content and we have now competing things running under the same word and the wider public gets confused about it. Most countries, as tyrannical as they are, call themselves democracies. Naive people believe it means freedom, but more often than not it means something like the Democratic Republic of North Korea. In 2015 all old German parties have declared that the new competition, AfD, were "anti-democratic" and that they were the democratic parties. These "democratic parties" are since busy installing censorship legislation and some leading members of the press are even asking to deprive people from their right to the ballot box.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 12, 2019 - 4:29pm
I would say Opher is very much a part of that, as he very much believes what he says and totally discounts both human nature and history. In his mind it is very possible for government to be kind, benevolent and even accountable in and of itself ... and truly concerned about the needs of the people and not self-serving. In my mind, this would be a classic sign of understanding the emotional precepts of the content, without understanding the minutia and the peculiarities that will arise when real world variables enter into the equations. I greatly enjoy his conversations and his taste in music and I believe his intentions truly are well meaning ... though I do not believe that there is the proverbial snowball's chance that government will seek to restrict itself for the benefit of the people. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 7:36am
Stone - I think people like to know that you respect their culture and are making the effort to integrate.
Over here we've got the return of football hooligan nutcases with their racism. Brexit has unleashed a lot of racist behaviour. They feel empowered.
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 7:38am
Ward - good on you.
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 7:41am
Opes - the reason why I say it is back again is because we have been through a period of time when it has been so much better. It is sad to see it on the rise again. The demonization of Muslims and immigration has created a toxic resurgence in racism. I hope it will settle after Brexit.
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 7:49am
Ben - people who behave in that way should be in court. The police need to deal with it. But I could show you similar things all the time with groups of right-wing British thugs. It's not just immigrants.
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 7:51am
George - very simplistic and silly.
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 7:56am
Ward - Nice one - no I don't discount human history or human nature but being an idealist I look to learn from that to create something better.
Yes I do believe we can have benevolent government. Some people really do want to make things better.
I'm certainly not as cynical as you guys.
Benjamin Goldstein Added Jan 13, 2019 - 8:13am
 > But I could show you similar things all the time with groups of right-wing British thugs. It's not just immigrants.  
 
When pigs fly...
Ward Tipton Added Jan 13, 2019 - 8:36am
"Yes I do believe we can have benevolent government. Some people really do want to make things better."
 
On the day we can grab them by the testacles and hold on til they are done squealing perhaps ... and retain control of their more sensitive ... and not so sensitive areas. Until then ... ain't gonna happen.
 
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 11:25am
Lot of pigs flying your way Ben. Perhaps they'll help you see better?
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 11:27am
Ward - it must be a lonely desolate world that you live in when you can't trust anyone, can't make anything better and have no hope for the future.
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 11:32am
Opes - I have a realistic view of the future. I am cynical of politicians yet the system has delivered a good standard of living for most people. We have to keep pressuring politicians to deliver. They keep favouring the wealthy elite but we can keep them afraid of being kicked out so that they have to compromise.
There are many politicians who do care about people - at least there are in the UK.
I do believe most people are pleasant and friendly. It is a minority who are unpleasant, cruel and nasty.
I have shown that my philosophy works. I changed my school into a friendly place with not macho bullying or violence, no racism or sexism and a great positive vibe. That can happen on a global scale.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 13, 2019 - 3:54pm
"I thought we'd grown out of all that. But fascists are marching on our streets again making their Heil Hitler salutes. Islamophobia is mainstream and sanctioned as OK. Antisemitism is on the rise, hate crime is through the roof.
How have we got to this in a fairly settled multicultural society?"
 
There were always a few who challenged the various systems. 
what else is new? 
 
Was there ever a time when we did not hear the rants and threats of the left wing as they demanded monies, wealth, food and more from the other people?
 
NO
 
 Opher never talks about left wing marches, destruction and such. How about the left wing Antifa, Venezuela, GAZA where the same threats are honked and touted?    
George N Romey Added Jan 13, 2019 - 4:02pm
In the US what's up is the national reporting of hate group activities. I suspect the same in the UK although the forced intrusion of a very different culture is not going to go well. Send a bunch of backwards Middle Eastern types into the elite communities on the coasts of the US (which are mostly lily white to begin with) and see how fast the "liberal types" will begin to complain about the great unwashed in their strange clothes.
 
Opher might be well intention but he is profoundly ignorant, usually taking his clues from organizations that represent everything is supposedly against.  For example from the BBC pushing their corporate neo liberal agenda on people unable to think for themselves.  To people like Opher the NY Times is God and YouTube is a channel dedicated to showing errant youth skateboarding.
 
His suppose love of "academics" is laughable. No institution has pushed the neoliberal agenda installed in the 1970s than higher education.  I attended business grad school from 1992 to 1996 at a public (not private) university and the mantra was neoliberalism and globalism, sold together as one.  Yes globalism was going "to teach the world to sing" (yes like the 1970s bullshit Coke commercial).  Yet he somehow thinks these people to be the savior of the ordinary man.  In fact he envisions they should be running a global government that will set the world free from greed of neoliberalism.  It's like saying Hitler would have been a shoo in to investigate the atrocities of the holocaust.
 
Even the homogeneous and peaceful Nordic and Scandinavian countries are not assimilating these people well.  The world is a diverse place and people by nature are tribalism.  The Internet and bs neoliberalism that teaches the alleged virtues of globalism (or one big lie) doesn't change the nature of man. 
 
Ward Tipton Added Jan 13, 2019 - 5:06pm
"Ward - it must be a lonely desolate world that you live in when you can't trust anyone, can't make anything better and have no hope for the future."
 
Having never lived in such a world, I cannot imagine. 
 
You may have missed those conversations I have had with Stone where you would have seen that I have spent my life and all my resources traveling the world to assist in making it better. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 7:09pm
Opes - Imaginative-Pragmatic-Realist with a heavy dose of skepticism.
That sounds good to me.
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 7:12pm
rycK - that's because I see the Right-Wing being much more violent and aggressive. Though I will say that Left-Wing extremism can be quite ugly too.
What I want is a fair society without runaway capitalism causing immense poverty and grotesque inequality. I think that should never involve violence. I'm all for peaceful demonstration. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 7:17pm
George - why all this arrogant abusive tone? 
You are hardly the font of intelligence and truth. What makes you think you are so much better?
I happen to have a keen interest and am very well informed thanks. I also come up with workable solutions rather than daft statements.
I think you will find that mass migration throws up a number of problems that take time to deal with. It is not surprising that everywhere is struggling. Give it time. It doesn't help when the right-wing propaganda machine exaggerates those problems for political reasons.
opher goodwin Added Jan 13, 2019 - 7:19pm
Lol Ward - it had seemed to me that your distrust of all politicians and solutions must leave you without much hope but I am glad that you have been working to make the world better. That is a better image of you than I have been forming. What have you been doing?
Ward Tipton Added Jan 13, 2019 - 8:02pm
I offered to send you a copy of the book, although in reality, it is merely a brief synopsis, even at 125,000 words. I have gotten the project approved and worked extensively with other groups on similar and related projects with Indigenous (and/or Aboriginal) tribes in the Philippines, French Polynesia and Australia, with the national governments in the Philippines, Australia, Vanuatu, Costa Rica, Panama, Brazil (under negotiations and subject to change of course), Guinea, Cameroon, Nigeria, indirectly in Senegal and Uganda ... lots of work ... unfortunately none that pays which is why I am here so often right now, writing and trying to rebuild my personal corner ... there have been some extreme challenges to overcome and my distrust in governance lies not only with the nature of my service to the same, but also in the treatment (as in having my legal fiction declared non-existent) because I am working on solutions that work. The government is neither kind nor benevolent, nor lightly subject to change without personal empowerment and enrichment ... for the government ... regardless of how much it serves to benefit the people ... and that holds true for the UN as well as I can attest firsthand. 
Ward Tipton Added Jan 13, 2019 - 8:03pm
Oh ... and the Democratic Republic of the Congo ... though those are indirect through another similar org that does not have the same stigma as mine and still has a chance to work with the UN.
George N Romey Added Jan 14, 2019 - 8:08am
Opher because you keep up with this hippie nostalgia which you think is intellectual discussion, which it's not.  It's nothing more than dreamers clueless to the reality around them.  Right now there's great comments going on around David Volek's article about the Money Masters.  These are the people that are destroying the middle class in favor of the .01%, not Donald Trump.  But you can't participate in that discussion because you are ignorant of reality.
 
Donald Trump (for which this article was direct) is a nobody.  He's a nothing in the grand scheme of things.  He's nothing more than a side show to keep the sheep entertained and enthralled, either way.  The real damage in this world is being effected by lobbyists, think tanks, "pro business" groups, the halls of academia, mainstream media, money center banks and their owned central banks, large multinational corporations. Donald Trump has zero, nada, zip, zilch to do with any of this.  
 
There is no increase in racism.  Again, MSM does this to keep the sheep distracted.  Try to tell them about how zero percent interest rates are destroying the working class and as the saying goes "it does not compute."  Maybe stopping spouting off poetry and get a real understand of how the world is actually working.  
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 14, 2019 - 11:21am
Opher
 
"rycK - that's because I see the Right-Wing being much more violent and aggressive. Though I will say that Left-Wing extremism can be quite ugly too."
 
Really? 
 
Compare the right-wing violence to the Antifa violence and show us. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 14, 2019 - 11:22am
GNR
 
"Opher because you keep up with this hippie nostalgia which you think is intellectual discussion, which it's not.  It's nothing more than dreamers clueless to the reality around them. "
 
In agreement here. 
Ward Tipton Added Jan 14, 2019 - 12:04pm
"Compare the right-wing violence to the Antifa violence and show us. "
 
Are you kidding? Those radical right wing people (comprised of people from all political viewpoints) at the tea party gatherings tried to put thousands of union employees out of work by cleaning up their own mess at their rallies! The HORROR!!! THE OVERTIME!!! Just think of how much it would have stimulated the economy if these union workers would have been allowed to suck up all that overtime!
 
And they were violent in their words offering truth ... which is a violent act! Just ask any raging statist!