On Trump 2: Demographic Change (We Will Replace You---And Always Have)

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Demographic Change

 

Demographic change has been a hallmark of what is now the United States, even before the area was the United States and even before Europeans settlers arrived.  This is nothing new.

 

Before European explorers and settlers arrived, Iroquoian Nations, such as the Five Nations (later the "Six Nations:" the "Iroquois") and the Huron Confederations, began to impinge on the established Algonquin tribes in western New England, southern New York and in the Ohio Valley in the 16th Century.

 

 Access to steel-bladed weapons and firearms after the arrival of French, Dutch and, later, English/British settlers allowed the Five Nations to expand its footprint at the expense of Algonquin tribes like the Delaware and the Mohicans and Iroquoian rivals like the Huron, the Erie and the Neutral nations (the latter two decimated) in the Beaver Wars over control of the fur trade in the 17th Century.

 

Relatedly during this period, the British displaced the Swedes in what is now Delaware and the Dutch in New York and New Jersey.

 

Within the next approximately 100 years, particularly from 1697 to 1763, the British were able to displace the French from North America.  This lead to population displacement, such as French settlers from Arcadia in what is now the Canadian Maritimes being transported to French Louisiana to become the ancestors of today’s Cajuns.

 

Between 1763 and 1776, attempts on the part of the Crown to reconcile the conflicting needs and interests of former French Colonists and French allied tribes in the former New France, existing British colonists in the 13 Colonies and traditional British allied tribes (such as the Five Nations and the Cherokee) was a major source of friction between the Crown and the 13 Colonies.

 

Before and after the American Revolution, the immigration of disloyal, primitive and tribal Highland Scots, grasping and avaricious Lowland Scots, and the swaggering, violent and disputatious Ulster Scots/Scots Irish was a major source of disruption . . . as was these groups’ relative success as compared to established settlers.  The various Scots groups would do work (such as working as itinerant peddlers and stoop laborers) and settle in places (on the Frontier) more reasonable people (or those with better options) would not.

 

Additionally, many of the Highlanders were Papist and most of the other Scots were non-conformists, outside the scope of either the Anglican “Broad Church’ or the established Congregationalist Churches of New England.

 

Initially, they were Presbyterian, but the lack of resources on the Frontier drove them into the arms of other nonconformist denominations (such as the Baptists) that put less stock in the academic background of the clergy and more on their zeal, ability to preach and devotion to the Bible.  Other nonconforming groups joined them like the Society of Friends in Pennsylvania and the Methodists as that movement grew out of the Broad Church in the 18th Century.

 

These events provide a template for the effects of the immigration of others like Christian and Jewish Germans, mere Irish, Eastern and Southern European Christians, Eastern European Jews, Lebanese, Armenians and Syrians, Mexicans and others in the mid to late 19th Century and early 20th Century.

 

New arrivals are resented due to their low status, differing cultures and . . . eventual economic success.  It was true 242 years ago and it is true today.

 

It was unquestionably a factor in Trump’s election in 2016, as demonstrated by some of Trump’s more fringe supporters chanting ”You will not replace us” when they marched through Charlottesville, VA a few years ago.  However, American History indicates that newer group tends to "replace" (or at least amalgamate with) older groups, usually to everyone's ultimate benefit.

 

Although illegal immigration was the issue Trump's Campaign seized upon, perhaps noting the uproar that sank the "Gang of Eight" Immigration Reform Compromisee in 2007 and Immigration Reform in 2013, it is worth noting that the illegal immigrant population was stable during the period when Mr. Trump launched his campaign and that the number coming from Mexico was declining. 

 

It is also worth noting that, while Sen. Obama supported the legislation in 2007 and President Obama supported 2013 legislation (and attempted to implement part of it by Executive Order), he was not a major factor either time.  In fact, both major parties' triangulation while trying to court the growing Hispanic voting population while trying to placate existing stakeholders (the white working class for Republicans, the Union Hierarchies for the Democrats) seemed to lead to the election of Trump as surely as Grenville and North's Government's  attempts to balance competing interests in British North America had lead to the American Revolution after 1763. 

 

While Mexicans still constituted the largest number of illegal immigrants (and the number of Central American illegal immigrants was increasing), a Wall on the Mexican Border hardly seemed an immigration panacea.  This seemed especially true given the fact that this approach does not address the issue of people over-staying their Visas, a large source of the problem. 

 

This issue has gptten a lot of attention from those attempting to understand the roots of the Trump Presidency.  However, it was not the biggest factor in Mr. Trump's election.

 

 

               

 

Comments

Katharine Otto Added Jan 4, 2019 - 11:09pm
John,
Interesting historical perspective.  It does seem the wall is more symbolic than practical,  Any idea why he is so obsessed with it now?  
John Minehan Added Jan 4, 2019 - 11:25pm
My only guess is that he wants to fulfill a campaign promise.
 
I appreciate what that one Border Guard said yesterday, it is his business not mine.  However, George Patton's 'Fixed Fortifications are a monument to human stupidity comes to mind."
Ryan Messano Added Jan 5, 2019 - 12:06am
If Americans stopped with the birth control, abortion, and porn, and actually understood the sex drive was for marriage and children, they'd actually  have children, and we wouldn't have problems with immigration, healthcare, or welfare.  Because children raised with married fathers in the home are much more stable, perform much better in education and work, and a younger population would drive down health care costs, just as an aging population is driving it up. 
Bill H. Added Jan 5, 2019 - 12:13am
 
Rather than be concerned with increasing populations of particular demographics, humans should be concerned with the problem of increasing populations, period.
 
Ryan Messano Added Jan 5, 2019 - 12:23am
Fake news, Bill.  The entire 7 billion population of the world could fit in Texas and Louisiana, living at the density of NY city.  We have food enough to feed 500 million more. 
Do A Deal Added Jan 5, 2019 - 12:34am
What kind of wilting little white snowflakes are scared of being replaced by the Jews and the brown people.  My guess is it would be mostly white men with small hands and thin skins.  What do you think?
John Minehan Added Jan 5, 2019 - 6:41am
"If Americans stopped with the birth control, abortion, and porn, and actually understood the sex drive was for marriage and children, they'd actually  have children, and we wouldn't have problems with immigration, healthcare, or welfare."
 
It strikes me that immigration would still be an issue, since people would still want to come here, some of them without papers.
John Minehan Added Jan 5, 2019 - 6:43am
"What kind of wilting little white snowflakes are scared of being replaced by the Jews and the brown people.  My guess is it would be mostly white men with small hands and thin skins.  What do you think?"
 
Or, at least use it as a wedge issue . . . . 
Dr. Rupert Green Added Jan 5, 2019 - 9:04am
Interesting read. It can be augmented with articles found here.
 
The great wall did not deter the Chinese invaders from taking over  China. The present Chineses were not the original ones who built the wall for protection.
 
In about 27 years, America will not be Majority White. That is "skeering" the shit out of White nationalist. The problem is not in the lack of a wall, it is in the lack of potency in their sperms.
 
The French were a liberal group of men they had it going with women of any race, even elevating them while Americans commoditize them.  Women of all races had access to education in French Louisiana before the Haitians ran the French out of town. Freeeench men like their women educated and educated women were used to entice French men to come over.
 
The people breaching the border are seen as less educated and the president made note of his desire to bring in the type of Whites Hitler preferred.
 
In the end, we will have a Black and Brown America at the point of penises, and the soon to be vanquished are hell bent and keeping the "rapist" as they are called from letting loose their sperm-filled gattling guns.
 
 
 
 
 
 
John Minehan Added Jan 5, 2019 - 9:41am
Speaking of the French, I am reminded of the Mettis War.
 
One should hope we can do better, or at least learn, as Canada has.
Bill H. Added Jan 5, 2019 - 11:53am
"Fake news, Bill.  The entire 7 billion population of the world could fit in Texas and Louisiana, living at the density of NY city.  We have food enough to feed 500 million more."
From a person who came from a family of 18 kids, I'm not surprised at this response.
Even A Broken Clock Added Jan 5, 2019 - 11:55am
John, excellent article, particularly at the end when you bring up the issue of visa overstays. That nowadays is over 50% of the ongoing increase of illegal immigrants, and the fact that this administration is ignoring over half of the problem indicates that this administration is not interested in dealing with real issues.
 
The wall is a totem, a symbol of the "lost manhood" of the US, and you are seeing the logical conclusion of this attempt at regaining manhood through this government shutdown. After all, Donald is afraid of looking foolish if he gives in on the wall issue. And what is more important? Having  a functioning government, or one person's ego? We all know the answer to that question.
 
If you do study the history as you obviously have John, you realize that the same arguments against immigrants today have always existed. This country has always been afraid of losing its character to "the other". What we must somehow learn is that it is the essence of being human that is most important, not the external markers like race and country of origin.
John Minehan Added Jan 5, 2019 - 12:12pm
People come in, stay, marry into local families and leave their cultural marks.  Things get better over time.
 
That's history; which is a record of life.
John Minehan Added Jan 5, 2019 - 12:14pm
Let's get even more focused: which is better a government shutdown of doing what you need to do to actually secure the border (which Schumer and Pelosi have suggested)?
opher goodwin Added Jan 5, 2019 - 12:37pm
A fascinating perspective that reinforces my views that the sooner we ditch the stuff of tribalism and embrace a more universal culture the better.
You are right. The wall is both symbolic and pandering to his base. It's practical function is useless. All walls prove ineffective. Like the Maginot Line they are just too easy to circumvent. Every fool knows most of the illegal immigrants come in legally on a visa and simply stay. In Palestine, even with the advantage of a short perimeter and a highly vigilant policing, they still manage to smuggle missiles in through tunnels. All walls, like the Berlin Wall, either get bypassed or come down. 
John Minehan Added Jan 5, 2019 - 1:04pm
This is the Inter-zonal Border I'm more familiar with . . .  and it was surprisingly ineffective  . . . .
Michael Dolan Added Jan 5, 2019 - 3:05pm
First of all let me say that Obama was an enemy of our America. Gives billion dollars too Iranian terrorist. Obama had 13 attacks in our states under his presidency. Islamic terrorist killed in the name of Allah U.                                                                                                                       Crooked Hillary gets away with all of her corruption and lies. I admire our president for his ability to fight back against open borders and fight to end open borders too those who come into America illegally.                                                                                                                   They come in and they kill-rape and Democrats cheer them.        
John Minehan Added Jan 5, 2019 - 3:45pm
OK, how is that responsive?
Dino Manalis Added Jan 5, 2019 - 3:56pm
 When the developing world is developed, demographic change will probably slow, but wars and conflicts will always produce more refugees many of whom will want to seek refuge in America.
The Owl Added Jan 5, 2019 - 6:21pm
No.  The Great Wall of China didn't stop the invaders...But it did slow them down.
 
The issue is assimilation.  It always has been; it always will be.
 
And lurking under Stone Eaters globalist exterior is the type of feelings that fuel the nationalist be the Swiss, German, British, Italian, French, Danish, Dutch, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Ghanaian, Brazilian, Canadian, and yes, American.
 
Stone Eater is miffed that the Bosnians, Croatians, the Serbs, and the other ethnic groups of the Balkans migrated to his pristine Switzerland.  How is that any different than, say the Irish, the Jews, the Dutch, the Germans, the Hondurans, the Guatemalans, and now the Somalians and Syrians migrating to the United States?
 
People enjoy their cultural identities and have a vested interest in maintaining them.  It is perfectly reasonable and ought to be an acceptable position.  When they arrive in their new homelands, the bind together as a means to keep roots in the cultural heritage of their homeland and ease the transition as they become citizens of their new homes.  
 
But to become citizens of their new land, the immigrant must work to dissolve and resolve his cultural differences with their hosts.  
 
Those that do carry forward traditions and beliefs that are meaningful and strengthen those that can be meaningful to both new arrivals and existing communities.  Those that resist the melting of the pot are destined to have difficulties both personally and communally and are reasonably subject to scorn and discrimination. 
 
The onus is on the host to be open and adaptive.  But the more difficult onus is on the immigrant to understand and to accept that HE must earn the right to change the customs and habits of his new nation by showing that HIS are compatible with and acceptable to his new community.
 
There is a cost to those choosing to immigrate to a new land, and the immigrant needs to accept that those costs may be both difficult to achieve and significant to his custom.
 
 
 
Lindsay Wheeler Added Jan 5, 2019 - 8:00pm
The Wall is NOT symbolic whatsoever. 
 
Is the Wall in Israel symbolic, John?  No it isn't!
 
It's funny that the Jews can have a wall, but the Jews in America don't want us to have a wall. 
 
Ethnic Dilution is Genocide. Us aware Anglo-Saxons and other aware Europeans are quite aware the effort by the Jews to genocide  the Whites by Race-mixing. 
 
John writes this long very informative article--but slips in the Leftist slogan of the day---""""It's symbolic"""". Screw you, John. 
 
This is a way for the people like Leftist Minehans to demean and belittle Trump and his supporters. Calling the wall symbolic is about saying that the shutdown is not about real strategy but a gimmick!
 
John is finding a way to not only legitimize ethnic cleansing, ethnic genocide of the whites by saying demography is okay, but then he mocks us who care to preserve our people. 
 
This was a dishonest article with a hidden agenda. 
 
 
Jeff Jackson Added Jan 5, 2019 - 10:37pm
John, nice historical context. "That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."- Aldus Huxley.
FacePalm Added Jan 5, 2019 - 10:54pm
John-
First, i appreciate the historical perspective.  i, for example, had no idea that there were so many internal conflicts that Scots brought with them to America.
 
Second, as to the Wall, America gave foreign aid to both Israel and Jordan to build theirs; Israel's has been remarkably effective.  Data's not in on the Jordanian wall's effectivenss
 
As to the Chinese wall, they've never had a problem with Hispanic immigration, now, have they?  So, it worked!
 
As to the immigration issue, period, Trump has often opined - and still does - that Americans welcome LEGAL immigrants.  It's the ones who cross ILLEGALLY that are the source of endless troubles and drains on resources.
 
i tend to agree with him, though it may be quite smart to first, stop the illegals/deport the ones already here, then declare at least a 10-year moratorium on the acceptance of new ones until the ones already here can assimilate and become in every facet an American and nothing BUT an American.
 
These sob's who come here and want to create the same kind of shithole they left can turn right around and go back, especially Muslims working toward the acceptance of Shar'ia. which would be a violation of their Oaths of Citizenship, imo an offense which should be prosecuted
every
single
time
any of them are caught promoting, teaching, or worse, IMPLEMENTING it.  We are NOT going to have "no -go" areas in America where police and firefighters get attacked when trying to do their jobs.  We are NOT going to have areas under muslim control where Americans cannot travel for fear of being stoned, beaten, or killed.  If muslims refuse to assimilate, let them gtfo.  Fast.  With a boot in the ass if they're moving too slowly.
John Minehan Added Jan 5, 2019 - 10:55pm
"John writes this long very informative article--but slips in the Leftist slogan of the day---""""It's symbolic"""". Screw you, John."
 
I don't see where I said it was "symbolic." 
 
I just don't think it can be effective. 
Adolf Dick McMenace Added Jan 5, 2019 - 11:56pm
"People come in, stay, marry into local families and leave their cultural marks. Things get better over time.

That's history; which is a record of life."
 
John, for someone who routinely writes very astute, intelligent, decent, and (occasionally) hilarious things, that comment stands out in its utter truthfulness and accuracy. I have to suppress the urge to go off on dildos who litter and pollute your posts, but you invariably fight your own battles in your own smooth way.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 6, 2019 - 3:53am
Yet some would have us believe that throughout the entire history of humanity only one in three races has ever been victimized ... that is the part I do not understand in this. 
John Minehan Added Jan 6, 2019 - 6:24am
"First, i appreciate the historical perspective.  i, for example, had no idea that there were so many internal conflicts that Scots brought with them to America."
 
My father's side of the family was Highland Scots . . . and, as a group, we can cause conflict if we are alone on an empty island.
 
Also, while the America was being settled, you had the Plantation of Ulster, the Act of Union and the '45, none of which made Scots the most popular people in the British Islands.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Jan 6, 2019 - 6:28am
The melting pot narrative has been challenged and discredited to a degree. Little Italy, China Town, Little Haiti, and such could be found in relevant states. I am concerned regarding the economic impact the wall will have in that Canadians will be prevented from their cross border purchasing here. The fear of the penis --rapists--is a code word similar to the big Blacks that inspired castration of Blacks.
Whites were worked into a frenzy with the shout of a Black raping a White woman. Of course, circumcised Jews met the same rage from White Christians. So a great piece of red meat is about protecting the White maidens from virulent sperms and monster cocks of immigrants who cannot afford a plane ticket or need a visa.
 
MUSLIMS are the new boggy man. The tales of rape in Switzerland, Scandinavian countries, France, and other European countries informs a visceral opposition to group. Hell, if that is what they are coming here to do, I would risk my neck and enter the woods to join my red neck friends to defend the nation. But the wall is against the prolific breeding Latinos as opposed to terrorists. Hitler built gas chambers to address his fear, trump is building wall to address his. 
 
The imposition of the penis of the concurred has always been a spoil of war. So, to have penises imposed on America will suggest it lost a war.  Hence, the wall is framed as national security concern.
John Minehan Added Jan 6, 2019 - 8:08am
Dr. Green, so the Wall is a big concrete (or steel) condom (or maybe chastity belt)?  
 
Somehow, I don't think that is going to work.
 
However, a Wall might work in southern Mexico, since the problem appears to be  is in Central America these days and that terrain is better suited for that kind of barrier.
 
!Hacer Mexico Grande Otra Vez!   
John Minehan Added Jan 6, 2019 - 8:20am
It might be more effective (and substantially cheaper) for the US (and Canada and Mexico) to work with the Central American countries to improve conditions and reduce the numbers of people coming north.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jan 6, 2019 - 8:46am
John M., great article and I enjoyed the history.   With all the detail  I wonder how you missed the fact that the depressed economy after the 2008 crash resulted in less jobs for illegal immigrants in construction which was a dead industry, GDP ~ 0.2%.  Even the media reported that the illegal immigrants were going home and they were supporters of Obama.  The Trump regulation cuts just boosted the slight recovery that was occurring in final months of the Obama administration since the growth of GDP was still well below 3.97% average at 2.24% as reported in a May 2015 Forbes article.  Trump within a year was having quarters above the average and now the average is above.  As the caravan young men have said they are coming to the USA for opportunity, jobs.  Just the facts John M.
 
John M. we also differ on why there was an American Revolution.  As you pointed out America was where the dissidents (all the founders were liberals, which due to socialist/Marxist claiming the tag we added 'classic' to the founders liberalism) moved to from all parts of the English society.  This just lowered the threshold but was not the cause.  Read the Declaration of Independence and they are listed.  The conclusion from the list is that the colonies were 'second class citizens', lesser humans and the parliament knew what was best for them.  The class system set up by government prevented them from moving to higher classes.  That privilege was only afforded to rich merchandise in England.  This is the classic reason for all revolutions, barriers to economic and political advancement and different rules for different classes.
 
The biggest factor in Trumps election was the divide in self interest of votes.  The city dwellers have been the focus of the Democratic party politics since the 1870's. They fostered government dependency of the poor and selling loop holes and pork to the rich.   While the rural voters paid for city welfare and found that the care of the land was yearly becoming less important, the dismissal of coal, oil, and insane water government land management rules.  As it happens the founders by the electoral college system added the representatives for population, the House and the representatives for the care of the land, the Senate together.  Hillary won ~56 counties less then 5% and Donald lost the popular vote have a small percent.  The land care taker vote resulted in Donald winning.
Dr. Rupert Green Added Jan 6, 2019 - 8:51am
@ John. Thanks for summarizing. The wall is a big penis inhibitor for those lacking the blood stock the president prefers. He has pointed out the rapists trying to get here.
Thomas Sutrina Added Jan 6, 2019 - 9:10am
John M.  Your wrong in thinking that America and Canada have tried to improve Central and South America. 
 
The problem is very simple the principle of 'individualism' that is the foundation of the British government system is not found in the governments that were set up by mostly Spain in the lower Americas. 
 
Theirs is a system based on a privilege class governing the countries for their own self interest and the reason for the American Revolution exist in every country.    No amount of money in the world will end the barriers set up to prevent mobility of people to the class they earn through their labor.   The government prevent the pursuit of happiness for the majority of their citizens.  And it will use force to maintain the barriers.   When the people have no voice the only way to solve the problem is by revolution.  History has shown that is what occurs on a regular basis.
 
The wall did work for a long time in China.  To say it didn't work is against any logical analysis.  For one thing it took a very long time to complete.  and the cost of the wall and the stationing of troops on that wall was a very high cost that the people of china paid.   Even a tyrannical government is not stupid enough to risk a revolution from the  burden of taxes needed to keep the wall  effective if it was not effective.   That can be said for all walls.   The walls around a building like the white house, Walls around prisons. Walls or fences around neighborhoods, golf courses,  Farms, etc.   Logic says they are there to keep in or out what is not desired and since they cost money to put up and maintain then logic says it is worth the cost.   Cannons made the wall no longer effective as what happened to the wall around Constantinople.  The China great wall fell from my understanding because the self interest of the defenders to maintain it disappeared in some sections.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 6, 2019 - 9:17am
You seem oddly obsessed with the phallic of late Dr. Green ... is it perhaps due to issues with your big imagination? Or perhaps your little shortcoming? 
Steel Breeze Added Jan 6, 2019 - 9:21am
whether symbolic or not, the wall would a humane alternative to what those i know propose; a 500 yard "kill zone"........anything that moves,dies...
Dr. Rupert Green Added Jan 6, 2019 - 10:13am
@ Ward. l"You seem oddly obsessed with the phallic of late Dr. Green ... is it perhaps due to issues with your big imagination? Or perhaps your little shortcoming?"
 
It my establish modus operandi. Its is as good a respond generator as bread and butter issues. Read this.  
 
It is the fact behind the matter America is slated to be majority non-White in about 27 years. Those horde of rapist from Mexico is the phenotype that are breeding the fastest and  are the group slated to be majority.
 
 
George N Romey Added Jan 6, 2019 - 10:54am
The question is does the wall become a symbolic statement that tells prospective border dodgers they are not welcomed here. There is strong evidence that illegal immigration from the South while still occurring is slowing.  Part of that slowing could be a perception that the US is no longer a place to be if your are not a legal resident.
 
The wall in itself won't stop the thousands coming from all over the world on legal visas and just staying.  So far no money is being appropriated to stop this flow.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 6, 2019 - 10:57am
I have been a minority well over half my life ... never had it generate thoughts about my phallus however LOL 
 
Having dealt with many of the gang-bangers, I can appreciate some concern, and when the statistics last I read, indicate that roughly eight out of ten of those caught crossing the border illegally reported abuse of some kind at the hands of those "helping" them across the illegal border crossing, I would say there is more than just passing merit to note that there is a vast criminal enterprise and substantial abuse going on because we refuse to secure the border. 
 
I am curious if you felt the same way when the democrats were demanding a secure border? Though yes, I do realize you are not a raving statist either ... but ... if it is bad for one, bad for all? No? 
Lindsay Wheeler Added Jan 6, 2019 - 11:04am
California was a Republican State for the longest time. It was Republican because it was part of the West, the Wild West, and it was formed around the ranches and farms; California was Conservative because it was a Rural/Agrarian state. 
 
Enter illegal immigration. The Democrat Congress gave some 3 million and more Illegals citizenship. Reagan signed it into law. What were Reagan's reason?  He said, We do this once and that will be the end of illegal immigration. 
 
He was wrong. California is now Majority Hispanic---Now, Majority Democrat---Thanks to Illegal Hispanics and the Democrat Party. California WILL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER Republican leader in that state. 
 
What happens in California--Will happen to the rest of America. 
 
The Handwriting is on the Wall. The Democrat Party is planning and executing the demise and DISENFRANCHISEMENT of the very people that built this country!  The "Cause" is more important. 
 
We need the Wall. Simple manpower of the Border Patrol has PROVEN it is NOT enough to stop Illegals. We are drowning in Hispanics and us whites will be miscegenated out of existence. 
 
That is OUR Future. No Wall---White Genocide. That is exactly what the Democrat (Marxist/commie) Party wants---White Genocide. 
Bill H. Added Jan 6, 2019 - 12:45pm
Wow
 
John Minehan Added Jan 6, 2019 - 2:09pm
'With all the detail  I wonder how you missed the fact that the depressed economy after the 2008 crash resulted in less jobs for illegal immigrants in construction which was a dead industry, GDP ~ 0.2%."
 
I didn't:     Although illegal immigration was the issue Trump's Campaign seized upon, perhaps noting the target="_blank">uproar that sank the target="_blank">"Gang of Eight" Immigration Reform Compromisee in 2007 and Immigration Reform in 2013, it is worth noting that the illegal immigrant population target="_blank">was stable during the period when Mr. Trump launched his campaign and that the number coming from Mexico was declining . . . . 
 
While Mexicans still constituted the largest number of illegal immigrants (and the number of Central American illegal immigrants was increasing), a Wall on the Mexican Border hardly seemed an immigration panacea.  This seemed especially true given the fact that this approach does not address the issue of people over-staying their Visas, a large source of the problem. 
 
I apologize that my cite to the statistics dropped somehow.
 
 
Wendy Bugliari Added Jan 6, 2019 - 2:12pm
WALL,
Let US apply issues relative to WALL like the "Blood and Soil" folks appearance & murder of what was seen as Enemy of same. Antifa if you will. What do these Social/Political extreme examples conjure from past lessons such as Berlin Wall?
Matter of Fact, native to WB Stone Eater, mentioned Der Spiegel WAS A GREAT unbias NEWS source which turned. hmm. Jurg?
 
Once aware of his own status as a target, GDR opponent Wolfgang Templin tried, with some success, to bring details of the Stasi's
Zersetzung activities to the attention of western journalists. In 1977 Der Spiegel published a five-part article series,
"Du sollst zerbrechen!" ("You're going to crack!"), by the exiled Jürgen Fuchs, in which he describes the Stasi's "operational psychology". The Stasi tried to discredit Fuchs and the contents of similar articles, publishing in turn claims that he had a paranoid view of its function,
(***and intending that Der Spiegel and other media would assume he was suffering from a persecution complex.***)
This, however, was refuted by the official Stasi documents examined after Die Wende (the political power shift in the GDR in 1989-90).
 
Jürgen Fuchs was born in Reichenbach im Vogtland where he also grew up, After his military service, he began to study social psychology at the University of Jena in 1971. In 1973, he joined the Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED), the ruling party of East Germany in order to study the system from inside. At the same time he published dissident poems and prose. This led to his forceful disenrollment from the university shortly before graduation and his expulsion from the Socialist Unity Party of Germany in 1975.
 
     After his arrival in West Berlin, he published protocols of his detention and he continued to be a target for the Stasi. In the early 1980s, Fuchs became involved in the peace movement. After the opening of the Berlin wall in 1989 and German unification in 1990, Fuchs was an activist in the clarification of the "Stasi crimes."
  He died of plasmacytoma, a rare kind of leukemia in 1999 in Berlin. His disease might have been caused by deliberate radioactive contamination by the Stasi during his imprisonment.
 
The Stasi used Zersetzung tactics on individuals and groups. There was no particular homogeneous target group, as opposition in the GDR came from a number of different sources. Tactical plans were thus separately adapted to each perceived threat.[49] The Stasi nevertheless defined several main target groups:[17]

associations of people making collective visa applications for travel abroad
artists' groups critical of the government
religious opposition groups
youth subculture groups
groups supporting the above (human rights and peace organisations, those assisting illegal departure from the GDR, and expatriate and defector movements).

The Stasi also occasionally used Zersetzung on non-political organisations regarded as undesirable
John Minehan Added Jan 6, 2019 - 2:25pm
"That is OUR Future. No Wall---White Genocide. That is exactly what the Democrat (Marxist/commie) Party wants---White Genocide."
 
More like people coming in and inter-marrying, as has been happening since humans came to North and South America in the last Ice Age.  
Wendy Bugliari Added Jan 6, 2019 - 2:52pm
cont...
Throughout the 1960s and 1970s the American FBI came to fully appreciate and utilize Zersetzung against perceived "subversives". Martin Luther King was a regular target of public scorn, innuendo and other active measures by Edgar Hoover's FBI.
Under Vladimir Putin, Russia's security and intelligence agencies were reported to use similar actions against foreign diplomats and journalists in Russia and other ex-USSR states
 
As applied by the Stasi, Zersetzung is a technique to subvert and undermine an opponent. The aim was to disrupt the target's private or family life so they are unable to continue their "hostile-negative" activities towards the state. Typically, the Stasi would use collaborators to garner details from a victim's private life. They would then devise a strategy to "disintegrate" the target's personal circumstances – their career, their relationship with their spouse, their reputation in the community. They would even seek to alienate them from their children. Pingel-Schliemann cites the case of Herr J. First Herr J lost his driver's license. Months later he found anonymous notes insulting him hanging on the trees of his village. Then rumors circulated that he was cheating on his wife. At work Herr J faced growing problems. Finally, the police arrested him and sentenced him for a theft he didn't commit. To Herr J, these events were disturbing, random and inexplicable. He had no inkling that the Stasi were behind them. The security service's goal was to use Zersetzung to "switch off" regime opponents. After months and even years of Zersetzung a victim's domestic problems grew so large, so debilitating, and so psychologically burdensome that they would lose the will to struggle against the East German state. Best of all, the Stasi's role in the victim's personal misfortunes remained tantalizingly hidden. The Stasi operations were carried out in complete operational secrecy. The service acted like an unseen and malevolent god, manipulating the destinies of its victims.   
 
In 2016, Zersetzung-like harassment was reported by the American press as carried out by Russia's secret servoces against U.S. diplomats posted in Moscow as well as in unspecified "several other European capitals"; the U.S. government's efforts to raise the issue with the Kremlin were said to have brought no positive reaction.
 
The Russian Embassy's reply was cited by The Washington Post as implicitly admitting and defending the harassment as a response to what Russia called U.S. provocations and mistreatment of Russian diplomats in the United States. The Russian Foreign Ministries  spokesperson in turn accused the U.S.' FBI and CIA of provocations and "psychological pressure" vis-à-vis the Russian diplomats.
 
RECENT 2016 election does show signs of this method considering knowledge of interference and lack of Obama, Clinton follow UP public knowledge to methods other than "Active Measures"
which does NOT cover HIGHLY intrusive social media USE to engage extreme reaction of extreme right/left/environmentalist reactions/division!
Cheers,
~The Bug~
WE ARE AND ALWAYS WILL BE OUR OWN ENEMY WHEN ALLOWING FALSE NARATIVE BLAME FOR INDIVIDUAL SHORT COMINGS IN LIFE OR FAILURE TO CHALLENGE REAL THREAT
TO REAL FREEDOM NEVER REALLY EXISTING IN USA OR ELSEWHERE. CLOSEST TO DOMOCRACY AMERICA BUT NOT 
"GREAT" EVER. MAKE IT GREAT!
Thomas Sutrina Added Jan 6, 2019 - 2:59pm
John I did present the GDP growth of Obama's administration at 2.24% which is less then the 24 month average growth of the last ~ six recessions of 3.97%.   We should give Trump about two quarters before he takes full responsibility for the 24 month average growth, thus the first one should come out in the middle of this year.  I suspect it will be in line with Reagan so will be around 4.8%.  I would assume that the employment of illegal works would be in line with the economic indicators like the above ones.   
 
Note that Obama and Carter followed the same approach as FDR and obtained the same malaise recovery.  Trump is following the Coolidge, Kennedy, and Reagan approach, he should follow their higher then average results. 
 
Demographic change I do not think will be as effective that Democrats expect.  For one thing the risks involved in coming to America act as a filter.  For the period of the sailing ships and less for the steam ship immigrants.  Coming to America was a the full commitment, never expecting to return.  Resulted in those that came were self confident and did not expect welfare.  In fact welfare still is not offered to immigrants by law.   
 
Illegal immigrants still have quite a challenge to come to America so that filter is still present but the actual capacity to receive welfare has resulted in lowering the risk.   
 
So there is a difference between the immigrant and the native poor, of a higher self confidence in the immigrant.  And the higher the risk in coming to America the stronger their self confidence.  The children of self confident people are taught to be more self confident.  So John M.,  I suspect that people that have obtain the right to vote honestly will be less likely to vote for a welfare state on average then even those natives at the same economic status. 
 
Immigrant criminal are looking for the lowest risk situation which includes the punishment if caught.  American's lacks system and soft prison system compared to the home country for petty criminal is a magnet.   The petty criminal is likely escaping crimes in their home country so to turn them over to the justice system in their home country now results in that nation choosing to send him back into America at a small cost and less risk of committing other crimes or convict and imprison him at a cost to the state.  Open borders creates a government sanctioned revolving door to return criminals to the USA.  Drug money and other illegal exportation is a positive income to the economy.   
 
John M.  I would like to see a logic based argument that I am wrong. 
John Minehan Added Jan 6, 2019 - 3:05pm
"I am curious if you felt the same way when the democrats were demanding a secure border? Though yes, I do realize you are not a raving statist either ... but ... if it is bad for one, bad for all? No?"
 
I spent the years 1985 through 1989 in 3d Armor Division, which used to follow the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment around like the big cartoon dog used to follow the little cartoon dog around, asking, "What are we gonna do now, George?"
 
Part of that was going to the Inter-Zonal Border occasionally: big fence; razor wire, lots of razor wire; AP mines; vicious dogs and East German Guards with DShKs (that they were willing to use) . . . . and what really struck me about it was all of that did not stop Illegal Border Crosses from going from the East to the West.
 
I remember talking to some people from How Battery, 3/11 ACR about how they had been on the Border in 1985 when some people crossed and a couple were killed by fire from the East and the How Battery Soldiers  couldn't do anything until the refugees reached a certain point in the Border.  (That was, I think, the East used deadly force to keep people from crossing.)
 
Unless we are willing to do things like that (and we aren't) a Wall won't work and if we were willing to do that . . . it probably won't work.
 
If you want to spend money to secure the Mexican Border, take SeaAir Battle Doctrine as a guide and use ground sensors, non-air-breathing platforms and UAVS to cue Border Patrol Quick Reaction Forces ("QRFs") to apprehend the Illegal Border Crosses ("IBCs").  (This is the general method we used to deal with the Somali Pirates.) 
 
The Great Wall of China worked against the Huns (we think, could have been related groups or not) but against the Mongols . .  . not so much.     
Autumn Cote Added Jan 6, 2019 - 5:09pm
Please note, it's against the rules to post more than one article within a 48-hour period.  As always, many thanks for your participation with Writer Beat!
John Minehan Added Jan 6, 2019 - 5:43pm
You are right.  I had remembered it as 24 Hours.  Sorry.
Jeff Michka Added Jan 6, 2019 - 6:06pm
Actually a reasonable article, John.  But don't let "reason" get in the way of white nationalist and Trumpist Lindsay Wheeler!  Ol Lindsay wants to keep those evil brown people out and actually thinks a wall will do it.  The vast amount of "illegals" are people overstaying their visas.  Of course, they aren't "rapists and murderers" as defined and demonized by Orange Toilet.  The wall thing is a "base promise" Trump must deliver on or his vaunted base won't love him anymore.  Both Trump and his base want a monument to white supremacy and nationalism.  And gotta agree with Dr. Green that it's a johnson symbol that doesn't need condoms.  Border "security?" nice idea, but remember Trump sees himself as a real estate magnate and builder supreme, so a wall is it, "security having little or nothing to do with it.  You have noted there are other methods for enhancing border security, but those other methods just don't hurt people enough, and hurting "the Other" tribe is really the goal.  The current border "fences" ends a little more than 100 feet from the beach, so immigration control and keeping the hoards from floating around the barrier falls to the US Coast Guard, currently unpaid due to the government shutdown over "The Wall."  Hmmmm.  Lindsay Wheeler must be terrified of this new, pending seaborne invasion of rapists and murderers.... 
Flying Junior Added Jan 7, 2019 - 3:02am
John M.  I learned some history.  I appreciate the perspective.  Many thanks to helpful commenters.
 
For me it's more on a visceral level.  But it does make sense to bring in historical context.  Being Scotch-Irish myself, all I can say is, "Just because my ancestors spent one century on the accursed isle, must I bear the shame for eternity?"
John Minehan Added Jan 7, 2019 - 11:55am
In fairness, Flying Junior, they were several centuries on two "accursed isles" . . . .
John Minehan Added Jan 7, 2019 - 12:21pm
"A fascinating perspective that reinforces my views that the sooner we ditch the stuff of tribalism and embrace a more universal culture the better."
 
You will never replace "tribalism" . . . but you can get people to see how broad our tribes actually are and how much they overlap. 
John Minehan Added Jan 7, 2019 - 12:25pm
"John M.  I would like to see a logic based argument that I am wrong."
 
Thomas, I mean you no offense, but at times I find it hard to follow what you write.
John Minehan Added Jan 7, 2019 - 1:03pm
"John M.  Your wrong in thinking that America and Canada have tried to improve Central and South America."
 
After serving for a year in a low-intensity conflict (to use the Army's term) or a Small War (to use the Marine Corps, to whom I was attached, preferred term) in East Africa, you will never change another country and should not presume to try.
 
HOWEVER, there are a lot of externalities you can assist with, not least by working with the countries  in the region on the ties between MS-13 and El Eme (a US-based prison and street gang with a lot of power in a lot of places).   
Adolf Dick McMenace Added Jan 7, 2019 - 3:46pm
"you will never change another country and should not presume to try."
 
Something I used to tell panhandlers begging for change back when I felt they were worth even saying something to:
 
"Change comes from within." That got me at least two "F*&k you!"'s, lol.
John Minehan Added Jan 7, 2019 - 3:57pm
I offer to take them for a slice, if someone tells me they are hungry. I've had people take me up on it.
 
Kind of a sin against autonomy,  but I also ensure I do they no harm by helping them (other than the carbs).
Jeff Michka Added Jan 7, 2019 - 9:12pm
So, I guess I got it all "wrong"..The US, for example meddled in Nicaragua, ostensibly like good WB rightist demand, supporting Contras against socialist Daniel Ortega's government "to help' Nicaraguans be "free" of socialism.  It resulted in the Iran/Contra affair and trials here in the states, but hey, we were "helping" by promoting a civil war.  And those civil wars are always good for the poor in those countries, right?  Let see....in 1968-9 there was the "Soccer War" mercs with help from those helpful people in Langley, Va.- commonly known as the CIA fight a nice little war between El Salvador and Honduras.  American pilots were paid (on both sides) rather well, flying converted WWII aircraft.  I actually loaded parts for Rolls/Merlin engines into a private Lear jet for spares brought to Honduras.  And there's so much more.  I don't know how we can be more helpful, idiot Sutrino.  They owe us so much, the least they can do is stop this invasion in light of "past favors" we've granted.  BTW, anyone ever notice how Daniel Ortega looked just like Jazz musician, Chick Corea?  They never appeared on the same stage, and I always wondered if running a Central American country would be a "label perk" from Chick's AR folks at his label.  Would keep him busy between albums.  Sounds a bit like a Clive Davis deal.  LOL
John Minehan Added Jan 8, 2019 - 3:26pm
The funny think is  the Sandanists got deposed (the first time) by a nice little abuelita who was a newspaper editor.  Even in a Communist country, you accept risk n starting something with those who buy ink by the barrel. 
Jeff Michka Added Jan 8, 2019 - 9:17pm
Lindsay, it's both silly and untrue John Minehan "demeaned you and bat shit crazy Trumpists," you demean yourselves all on your own.  Now run and cry to Autumn about me insulting you, like I just said, you insult yourself with your racially motivated lies. 
Flying Junior Added Jan 9, 2019 - 3:30am
Wendy,
 
We are all getting older, even the Unite the Right.  It will not be long before, "Blood and Soil," will be permanently displaced by, "Blood and Urine."
 
Cheers