It's time we learnt from our history!

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Waddesdon Manor – a mere country house for a weekend residence!

Stately homes never cease to amaze me. While most of the country worked long hours in factories or toiled on the land the landed gentry lived in luxury waited on hand and foot by an array of hundreds of servants.

Waddesdon Manor was built in the style of a magnificent French Chateau as a weekend residence for Baron Ferdinand De Rothchild in the nineteenth century.

It seems that the enormous wealth of the British Empire, amassed from all around the world, was being channelled directly into the pockets of a tiny elite. Nothing much has changed there then!

This impressive building housed hundreds of servants, was built in the midst of extensive gardens with miles and miles of grounds around it, all landscaped. The cost for this weekend retreat is truly staggering. Compared to the living conditions of the average person the inequality is stupendous.

It housed lavish collections of art and furniture. It’s wine cellars stocked 15,000 bottles and I bet there wasn’t a bottle of plonk among them.

Well the French got fed up with this gross inequality and had a revolution. Seems amazing to me that we didn’t follow suite. Maybe we’re just a little slow to get started?

These two gargoyles on the gatepost by the stables seem to be of The Green Man – the old Pagan British religion – a symbol of rebellion?

It’s time we learnt from our history!!

I’m always angered by what I see in our history. The wealthy lived in such ridiculous extravagance in stately homes with droves of servants, huge gardens, banquets, coaches and clothes and jewellery and a lavish lifestyle that was unbelievable. The people who produced that wealth were the slaves out on the plantations and the poor factory workers and miners who were crammed into the slums, who worked fourteen hours a day for a pittance, who worked in terrible dangerous conditions, who lived in extreme poverty, disease and destitution.

 

It was only the work of the abolitionists, socialists, suffragettes and trade unions who fought for justice and fairness who screwed compromise out of the capitalists. They rightly improved the conditions of the working people, improved salaries, introduced the welfare state and brought in environmental legislation for the good of us all.

 

As the wealth of the nation has increased those gains have been eroded, the inequality has once again  increased, the trade unions have been emasculated and workers conditions and pay have been diminished.

 

The few are channeling in the wealth while ordinary people struggle.

 

It is time we moved back to a real socialist agenda to bring back more fairness and justice for ordinary people.

Comments

opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 8:23am
Inequality has never been as bad as it is now. A/I is going to make the situation a lot worse. If we want to avoid great civil unrest I would suggest it is something that requires addressing.
Steel Breeze Added Jan 28, 2019 - 8:28am
i dont worry bout what others have or do with it,only what i got.......and i got 20 bucks for burgers and beer when i want......good enuff....
Dino Manalis Added Jan 28, 2019 - 8:36am
 Enjoy!  History is an important lesson to see what's worked and what to avoid repeating!
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 8:51am
Dino - I agree. If only we learnt more and did not keep carrying out the same mistakes.
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 8:52am
Steel - you're incredibly lucky - many are scavenging on rubbish dumps or starving to death.
Bill Kamps Added Jan 28, 2019 - 9:24am
Inequality has never been as bad as it is now.
 
This is a laughable statement given the photos and article you gave us.  I am certain that the people who built and owned those manor houses, were far more wealthy relative to their servants, than people are today.  In fact, in many cases those houses had to be given up, because current owners couldnt afford to pay taxes on them or pay their upkeep.  It was not that long ago, perhaps 200 years, when the middle class didnt even exist.
 
In the late 1800s, when the US had the likes of Rockerfeller, and Morgan we had ZERO income tax.  So the rich had effectively no tax on their income, and yet things are less progressive now than then?
 
Perhaps things are bit less progressive than they were 40-50 years ago, but certainly not less progressive than 150-200 and longer years ago. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 9:42am
Bill - you really think that the likes of Gates, Buffet, Ortega or Zuckerberg aren't living with a magnitude of wealth that makes that Chateau look like peanuts.
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 9:44am
Bill - BTW - as with Trump - these people have all manner of mechanisms to avoid paying tax.
FacePalm Added Jan 28, 2019 - 1:29pm
"A socialist looks at a home of the wealthy and says 'No man should have so much!'  A capitalist looks at a home of the wealthy and says, 'Every man should have so much.'"
 
"A socialist is a communist without a gun."
 
"You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer."
-- Sir Winston Churchill(1874-1965) Prime Minister of England
 
"You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot lift the wage-earner by pulling down the wage-payer.
You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."
-- William Boetcker(1873-1962) German-born Presbyterian clergyman, 1916
Source: often falsely attributed to Abraham Lincoln
 
In sum, then, this is the main failure of true education, to teach the virtues of thrift, planning, generosity of spirit, courage, innovation, independence, strength from the long practice of the aforementioned virtues (and several more) and an eye for opportunity in whatever field of endeavor one enters into - and this is both the strength of capitalism and the failure of socialism, in that socialism seeks to destroy the wealthy without teaching the poor how to become wealthy, or even that wealth is a desirable thing.
 
All socialism does to create equality is equality in misery.
 
Take a look at virtually every socialist revolution anywhere on the globe: nearly the first thing they do is to kill off anyone who has a remote semblance of wisdom or experience, to teach their nonsense to the youth, and encourage them to "destroy the past," as "bourgoise" or "counter-revolutionary," or other insanity.
 
THIS is what we learn from history, if we have any sense.
George N Romey Added Jan 28, 2019 - 2:25pm
Here we go again with another let's give every boy and girl a pony. I live in Coral Gables, Florida. Why is that so significant?  In the 1950s as Castro started coming to power he began to grab private property from the professional classes to re-distribute to the poor.  Mostly doctors, lawyers, managers, etc. most of them fled to the US and settled in Coral Gables, now an upscale area of Miami.  To this date Castro is hated by a passion for what he did.
 
During those years children and grandchildren have been born. They've gone to good Universities, gotten good jobs and have come back to South Florida to actively grow this region's economy.  Now one of the most robust in the nation.  Cuba's lost was the United States gain.  But according to Opher Castro was right.
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 3:01pm
Face - well Churchill would say that wouldn't he? The rich always have an arrogant superiority and believe they deserve it. They hang on to what they have and do anything they can to stop others getting a fair share.
No - I'm sorry. You do not get great wealth through industry. You get it be exploiting others.
Boetcker - preached pie in the sky. He was simply wrong on many counts.
The whole rape of continents during the British Empire went into the pockets of the elite. It was not because they deserved it.
The present US economic colonisation of the planet is an exploitation of resources and people that flows from them into the pockets of a small elite.
The system is set up to maintain that supply to the elite and to create a huge pool of people to be exploited.
For most of us in the West unionisation has forced a fairer distribution but for the Third World it is dire.
Inequality is good for nobody. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 3:05pm
George - don't be daft again. Do not put stupid words in my mouth.
I am not proposing any landgrab or taking away of wealth.
I am not proposing a communist state.
I am not proposing a society based on complete equality of wealth.
You jump in with both feet and make things up.
What I am proposing is a fairer system where there is less inequality, where the super-rich contribute to society more and where there are not obscene levels of inequality.
George N Romey Added Jan 28, 2019 - 3:21pm
Opher but you say "socialist" agenda.  Read your last paragraph, LOL. In other words people instead of having their life destroyed by a bunch of greedy CEOs will have it destroyed by a bunch of power hungry government bureaucrats.
 
Again, you said nothing about a balance just your ramblings about the greatness of "socialism."  Then you put up pictures of castles.  There's nothing wrong with castles if there is broad based economic success.  You simply have these unintelligent answers to income inequality.  Income inequality is due to a complex number of reasons, some of them owing to the laziness of people.  People that would rather immerse themselves in entertainment garbage rather than self improvement.  Some of it is greed, some of it technology driven, some of it is government driven, some of it is tied to a failed post secondary education system, some of it is due to an eroding morality.  So how do you propose to combat all these conditions?  Other than finding these supposedly godly people that will make it all right.
 
But of course you won't have an answer.  You will just attack me, which I find funny because it just reinforces how lacking you are, as others have noted on WB.
The Owl Added Jan 28, 2019 - 5:30pm
If you are giving it away, Opher, I'll take it off your hands.
 
I would appreciate if you would continue to employ the house staff and grounds to its current standards.   After all, you owe as much to others as you claim to deserve yourself.
 
Rest assured I will not impose any other conditions that might impinge upon your rights to your spyglasses and specimen cases. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 5:33pm
George - you just demonstrate that you do not understand what socialist means.
The Blair government was socialist.
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 5:34pm
Mogg - I love good architecture (no matter if created for imaginary superbeings). What I do not like is unfairness, exploitation and gross inequality.
Bill Kamps Added Jan 28, 2019 - 5:34pm
you really think that the likes of Gates, Buffet, Ortega or Zuckerberg aren't living with a magnitude of wealth that makes that Chateau look like peanuts.
 
No.  For several reasons.  When Rockerfeller died in 1937, his net work in today's dollars was about $340 Billion, or about 4x what Gates is worth.  In addition, he paid no income tax, no capital gains tax, no inheritance tax, very little taxes of any kind.   
 
The middle class in those  days  was tiny, and there was no social welfare system of any kind in the early 1900s.
 
The differences then between the richest and the average person were much higher.  Not only because of the high income, but because of the low taxes the rich paid, and the complete lack of a social welfare system.  Today we compare incomes, but we forget to add in the benefits of welfare, health care, other personal subsidies.  Back then the poor were really poor because there was no safety net of any kind.
 
 
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 5:36pm
Owl - I am very comfortable thanks. I do not need more. What distresses me is people living in dire conditions through no fault of their own and exploited by billionaires in a system that stinks. I am also distressed by the greedy, selfish ones who already have more than they could possibly need causing such damage to the planet.
Cullen Kehoe Added Jan 28, 2019 - 6:15pm
The British had a Civil War where the Parliament (nobles primarily) wrestled control away from the monarchy in the 1600's, and the king lost his head. 
 
There was another round of this removing James II only a few years later and Glorious Revolution where Dutch William of Orange took control (with the help of Parliament). William had to agree to even more concessions from Parliament in order to have the throne. 

The German House of Hanover who took over a few decades later, being foreigners, slowly allowed Parliament to exercise even more control, long reigning yet mad George III helped this process late in the 18th century. These "changes" were solidified into law with the Acts of Union in 1800 (and I believe other legal acts early in the 19th century) where officially the House of Commons was created (pretty sure about that) and the cabinet was passed to the Prime Minister of Parliament instead of the king. 
 
These changes, interestingly, were a few years after the French Revolution. Nobody wanted to lose their head in England. 
 
But the aristocracy...that took until the World Wars to finally get the nail in their coffin of power.
 
The whole society of Britain needed to see idiot aristocrats leading waves of human beings to their deaths in mechanized 20th century warfare. Many of these aristocrats weren't qualified to lead a horse to water, but by the accident of birth and daddy having paid for them to attend the best schools, they were put in charge of the lives of a generation of young men and through ineptitude, lost that generation and finally their grip on power. 
Cullen Kehoe Added Jan 28, 2019 - 6:21pm
Most societies in the world had aristocrats that were in charge of society (even the U.S. has had pseudo aristocrats)--and somewhat fixed social classes. That's was a development in human civilization. It's just what happened. 
 
The thing that began to kill feudalistic class structures the world over were the growth of a professional middle class. That's the engine of a successful society because they are self-sufficient and have extra money to spend on luxuries which drives more industries, etc....
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 6:48pm
Mogg - OK - I'll solve the problem overnight. Do you happen to know where I can get a job paying 5 trillion a year?
Dave Volek Added Jan 28, 2019 - 6:50pm
I think essay should have come to a sounder conclusion. As it is, it seems like a "all rich are bad and ostentatious, exploiting the poor" diatribe.
 
When the opportunities of the lower classes are no longer there--or perceived not to be there, they take to the streets. And sometimes, these street protests lead to bad changes in government.
 
I have written about the 1848 revolutions in Europe. We should not repeat this history.
 
It is not enough to say: "The poor today have flush toilets and cellphones. They should be happy".
 
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 6:55pm
Bill - yes the poor were really screwed in the past. Thank heavens we managed to get unions and a decent welfare system.
So you think the levels of inequality now are OK?
I was just looking at one company - the employees were on basic salaries of £15.5 K - the boss was on £2.8 million K.  You don't think that was a tad excessive? 
No I think the people risking their capital and managing a business deserve a fair wage but the degree of inequality has become obscene.
If you were to tell the guys living under your flyovers and using the soup kitchens, or the guys working all hours on minimum wage and still having to go to a food bank in order to feed their kids, that you think it's about right, what do you think they might say?
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 6:58pm
Cullen - except they haven't lost their grip on power. The aristocracy still have all the wealth and live the life of riley.
Inequality is rising, wages and bonuses at the top are reaching obscene levels while millions are struggling on zero hours contracts and minimum wage - relying on food banks.
opher goodwin Added Jan 28, 2019 - 6:59pm
Cullen - the middle classes are being squeezed. The Tories have cut pensions, frozen wages and given tax cuts to the rich. Trump has done the same.
Cullen Kehoe Added Jan 28, 2019 - 7:50pm
@Opher - The classic British, land-owning aristocrats were all broke by the 1930's. Heck, even by the very late 19th century, they were shoring up their financial households by marrying rich American wives. 
 
The 20th and 21st century world has passed by the classic British aristocrats, has it not? These people are so broke, they keep trying to get T.V. shows like Downton Abbey to film there so they can make a bit of money to pay for upkeep on these vast, ancient homes. 
 
Trump did a tax cut, I don't have enough of the details on that, but benefiting the Middle Class is the key, not punishing the rich necessarily. And my understanding with Trump, it's paid off. 
Doug Plumb Added Jan 29, 2019 - 5:19am
It should be obvious to anyone that has the mildest interest in politics, that socialism is being pushed by the ones above the super capitalists - the banks. So you ask yourself - have the banks been humanitarian? No. They are willing to have their ("our") armies murder millions to put this wonderful system into place.
  There is a much greater gap between the richest few and ordinary folk under socialism than capitalism, the beauty of socialism is that the super wealthy can do whatever they want to ordinary people. There are no laws, only statutes that apply to the masses.
  re "It is time we moved back to a real socialist agenda to bring back more fairness and justice for ordinary people." Its true that the world isn't fair. Its also true that socialism is much worse, brought to us by people who actually want the worse.
  Socialists are the kind of people who, if were walking somewhere in the rain, would always get into the van with the stranger to avoid getting wet.
Doug Plumb Added Jan 29, 2019 - 5:21am
How often can a man be told he is wrong and avoid questioning his beliefs? You faith in socialism should end Opher, you should start looking at the facts of history and the reality of laws.
Don in Odessa Added Jan 29, 2019 - 5:26am
@Bill Kamps
I object to your use of the word "progressive." Anything progressive  at all about forced charity (socialism), is merely a facade to cover the fact that the power and money wielders only wear a different colored coat.
 
 
 
 
FacePalm Added Jan 29, 2019 - 5:32am
"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes, I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."
- Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets.
 
i think that as a Congressman, McDonald was privy to far more info than the average American, ergo lending much more gravitas, credence, and reliability to his statement than if someone like i were to announce the exact same theory.
 
Those who promote world government are the very useful idiots the PtB count upon, and will be among the first executed by them, as well, should they take control.  But then, they want 95% of the human race exterminated, so...
White Hair'd Added Jan 29, 2019 - 8:08am
Here's a bit of history for you; Socialism was originally foisted upon the world by the very same elites which built those mansions. They knew what they were pushing. It's too bad that most of their adherents never managed to catch on. The whole idea of Socialism was to figuratively give those masses a biscuit, rather than the fields to grow the wheat for that biscuit.
Some adherents have managed to figure out that the policies are really just a higher wall, with more armed watch towers. Socialism and all of its spinoff- isms is just a way to codify wealth and power and secure it with an iron fist and there has never been any lack of clever adherents, who want to be the ones swinging the fist.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 8:11am
George - I'm deleting your comments while you keep coming out with personal abuse and boringly harping on about world government in such a puerile manner regardless of the topic. Every single topic you are hijacking with your stupidity.
If you wish to discuss things intelligently then fine. I shall judge all your comments on that basis. But personal abuse and off-topic hijacking adds nothing to the thread. At present you're as boring and annoying as the brainwashed child.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 8:13am
Cullen - some of them were but others are still thriving.



1 (1)
The Duke of Westminster and the Grosvenor family
£9.964 billion


2 (2)
Earl Cadogan and family
£6.7 billion


3 (4)
Baroness Howard de Walden and family
£4.015 billion


4 (3)
Lady Charlotte Wellesley

£3.259 billion
 



opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 8:17am
Cullen - A lot of the Aristocracy made their money out of the Empire and slavery. They lived extravagantly with huge mansions and massive households of servants. When the income dried up the size of their mansions and households became unviable. They own huge land and buildings and cannot maintain either the servants or upkeep. But the canny ones put their capital to work elsewhere like, as with Lord Westminster, into property in London.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 8:18am
Lol Mogg - checked there but all I found was the same as you.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 8:19am
Doug - plain wrong. The banks are not pushing socialism - far from it. They want unprincipled, unrestricted, unrestrained capitalism. How can you be so wrong?
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 8:23am
Doug - which socialist countries are you looking at with this huge wealthy elites?? Britain under Atlee? Sweden?  Denmark? Norway? Switzerland?
Or are you going to cite tyrannies such as Venezuela?
Try looking at proper democratic socialist countries and not tin-pot tyrannies or communist tyrannies.
 
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 8:25am
Doug - I think you should start looking at fairness and compassion and begin to look at a model to address those issues. At the moment the world is being run for the rich by the rich and you are alright with that. I'm not.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 8:25am
Don - socialism is not forced charity.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 8:29am
Face - back on that again? 
The topic is not about world government. It is about gross inequality and the way the wealthy have set up a system to favour the wealthy so all ordinary people get are the crumbs from the table.
I want a fairer distribution of wealth and more compassion for those in need.
I contend there is more than enough wealth for everybody in the whole world to live a very comfortable life; it is merely poorly distributed. I do not mind an unequal distribution but not an obscenely unequal distribution.
At present the vast majority of people are being exploited for the benefit of a tiny minority.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 8:32am
Face - I believe the view put forward by Larry McDonald is a typical stereotyped right-wing view that has no substance in the real world. It is a very US view of the world that has no credence anywhere else and in my view is straight out of McCarthy propaganda.
Stone-Eater Added Jan 29, 2019 - 10:42am
socialist countries are you looking at with this huge wealthy elites?? Britain under Atlee? Sweden?  Denmark? Norway? Switzerland?
 
LOL That's the joke of te day :-)))
TexasLynn Added Jan 29, 2019 - 10:56am
Opher >> Do you happen to know where I can get a job paying 5 trillion a year?
 
Hmmmm... Socialist dictator would probably be your best bet.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 11:52am
Luther - I don't recognise anything that you are talking about as socialism. I also see that you know nothing about socialism and where it came from and its inter-relationship with the trade union movement.
Socialism is not tyranny.
Socialism is about fair distribution of wealth and ownership by the people - hardly what capitalists would want to create or promote.
FacePalm Added Jan 29, 2019 - 11:52am
Opher-
i suspect you doubt McDonald's view because you've not investigated the elites nor their plans, not to any degree consistent with discovering their goals and how they mean to attain them.
 
But you're certainly welcome to your blinders.  Your minders don't mind your blinders, that's for sure...they're glad of them.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 11:53am
Lol Stone.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 11:54am
Tex - or perhaps a few of the US Capitalists? - or even the tyrannical dictators in the 3rd World countries that they prop up?
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 11:54am
Tex - Maybe the Queen?
White Hair'd Added Jan 29, 2019 - 12:03pm
opher said: "I don't recognise anything that you are talking about..."
     _____
Of course you don't. One can not see into where one will not look.
No closed mind like the willfully blind.
 
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 12:12pm
Luther - I quite agree. But what you are describing is not socialism - it is a totalitarian tyranny.
TexasLynn Added Jan 29, 2019 - 1:27pm
Opher >> or perhaps a US Capitalists ... or maybe the Queen?
 
I'm trying to tailor this to your particular talents and predisposition.
Go with your strengths and what you know.
So we're down to socialist dictator... and/or Queen.
There may soon be an opening in Venezuela... dust off that resume.
 
Opher >> not socialism ... totalitarian tyranny...
 
tomayto tomahto :)
Don in Odessa Added Jan 29, 2019 - 1:28pm
@opher goodwin
"socialism is not forced charity."
I disagree. When you take from the one who has earned it by the force of law, no matter the intent, and give it to the one who has not earned it, it is plain and simple, forced charity. Having said that, with the devolution of ethics and the reeducation of the masses via the incessant brainwashing of the media and our education institutions in this country, I can see how you wouldn't have the slightest inkling of the truth of the matter.
 
Having been hoodwinked into a system of a debt based economy; we have come to the point where the bulk of the wealth has been pocketed by those who benefit from the debt. We are at the precipice where the payments can no longer be collected by an ever increasing the money supply. Fewer and fewer people can afford the payments let alone take on more debt. As resentment against the rich for selling us a bogus system increases, demand for wealth equality increases.
 
We are indeed moving into a socialist like future. There is no doubt about it. We have raised a self entitled generation of voters and politicians that have no concept of the value of self respect and self reliance.
 
They think they are doing good when in in effect, they are creating dependents on the state and slaves to the same. What all governing systems that attempt wealth redistribution fail to take into consideration, is the very basic law of conservation endemic to mankind. That being, expend the least amount of calories for the largest accumulation of reward. But it sounds so fair ... until the last tax payer decides it ain't worth it and takes his ease at the government's expense.
 
I mourn the loss of pride our people have succumbed to.
 
George N Romey Added Jan 29, 2019 - 1:36pm
The socialist future will not be kind.  Take this gaga talk about Universal Basic Income.  So we're have 50% of the population given a meager stipend, living in rot and decay, stupid, and drugged out fearing crime. Women banging out babies by the dozens. Just look at welfare.
 
Yet the empty headers think with UBI we're all be taking art lessons and joining civic organizations.  This is the globalist agenda.  Stick half of the population into hell holes, give them a few bucks, let them self destroy and for the globalist they are gone from sight and mind.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 29, 2019 - 1:46pm
Let us go over some English history in: China 1839–1842 and 1856–1860  Second Boer War (1899-1902), Amritsar, India, on 13 April 1919, 

Talking about the Bengal famine in 1943, Churchill said: “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.”, Between 12 and 29 million Indians died of starvation while it was under the control of the British Empire, as millions of tons of wheat were exported to Britain as famine raged in India.,and  then there was the Mau Mau Uprising (1951-1960), The US colonies and bombing of Dresden Germany. 

Dave Volek Added Jan 29, 2019 - 2:16pm
George
I'm an advocate for a UBI, but it needs to be introduced slowly.
 
So what is your solution to the poorly run social assistance programs of the USA?
 
George N Romey Added Jan 29, 2019 - 2:21pm
We in the US have a community college system.  We should be retraining people using public education through that system.  In a new world education/training is no longer something you will do between the ages of 6-21. 
 
Also, the elites do not want to reduce the full time workweek and provide a full time paycheck because through automation and technology people can produce the same amount of work in a shorter period.  Instead they'd rather throw tokens at people because it's economically beneficial to their financial interests.  We did this back in 1933 when unemployment began to rise in part due to the automated factory line.  Of course we had a President with balls back then, at least committed to some of his promises.
Doug Plumb Added Jan 29, 2019 - 2:36pm
FacePalm: MacDonald's flight was flight 007.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 2:41pm
Tex - I'll go with the Queen - watch the news!!
I suggest you take a good look at the British socialist Atlee government and the politics of Scandinavia then you would see that socialism is far from tyranny. What you say is McCarthy in action.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 2:46pm
Lol Don - a partnership where people care for each other and show compassion for the needy, group together for the common good and share the wealth created more equitably, where exploitation is not the mantra and we are not ruled by greed, is not forced charity. It is compassion and fairness.
I see nothing of socialism in the American culture. You can rest assured there. It seems to me that anything left of Ghenghis Khan is labelled communism.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 2:50pm
George - a bit confused - globalists and socialists??? The globalists are the extreme capitalists looking to exploit everyone and make a fortune out of inequality. The socialists are looking for a social partnership that is based on a fairer distribution of wealth. The two are virtually diametrically opposite.
If you were to look at the model that Scandinavia presently adopts and that of the post-war Atlee government you would see socialism in action. It creates a happier, fairer society.
Your vision is one of tyrannical communism not democratic socialism.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 2:53pm
rycK - and your point is?
The British aristocracy, who ran the Empire, were racist, elitist and arrogant. Churchill was part of that.
The wealth from the Empire was funnelled into the pockets of the wealthy. Life for ordinary people in Britain was appalling. They had no say in how the country was run; they did not even have a vote. They were used, exploited and abused.
Doug Plumb Added Jan 29, 2019 - 2:57pm
re " I believe the view put forward by Larry McDonald is a typical stereotyped right-wing view that has no substance in the real world. It is a very US view of the world that has no credence anywhere else and in my view is straight out of McCarthy propaganda."
 
Where did you get that idea Opher ? So people like Henry Ford are to be simply dismissed as well? Because their views are not as enlightened as yours?
Dave Volek Added Jan 29, 2019 - 3:00pm
George
 
I work in the community college system. I help adult students get their high school education. About a third of my students do well and move on to secondary education. Another third put in a reasonable effort, but they don't get high enough marks to move on. They go back to their former employment, but with better literacy and numeracy skills. The other third don't accomplish much and fail themselves out in a semester or two.
 
What do we do with those students who don't or can't apply themselves at the high school upgrading level?
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 3:07pm
Doug - I've never read anything Henry Ford wrote. But he was a Capitalist so I presume he supports that system and I don't.
All I know about Ford was that he did a review of components for his cars with a view to how long they all lasted. On the basis of that report he reduced the quality of many components to bring them down to the level of the weakest in order to save money instead of improving the quality of the weakest.
FacePalm Added Jan 29, 2019 - 3:18pm
Opher-
it is a totalitarian tyranny.  
Always the case with socialism; always will be.
Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it; the only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.
 
Who is it, exactly, who gets to determine how much is too much, and how is that to be extracted?  Legal robbery(taxes)?  Physical theft?  Arrest and execution of the wealthy?  Arrest and "re-education" of the wealthy?
 
Have you ever heard of the Fabians?  How about the Tavistock Institute?  Club of Rome? 
 
There are others, but those places would be good ones to start learning about, especially all their ties to various forms of satanism and the programming of humanity, the tax farms, etc....well, that is, assuming you desire to know the Truth.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 29, 2019 - 3:27pm
Opher
 
"rycK - and your point is?
The British aristocracy, who ran the Empire, were racist, elitist and arrogant. Churchill was part of that."
 
As for: "who ran the Empire, were racist, elitist and arrogant." can we also apply these terms to:  USSR, PRC, Cuba, Venezuela, Most dictators in Africa since 1948, Iran and more in the Middle East.
 
Your quest for such a place is where? An example?
 
Is Jeremy Corbyn racist, elitist and arrogant? He claims to have solutions to any and all problems and condemns the Tory  government for all known evils. He struts like a Fascist. He  scowls like a Bolshevik.
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 29, 2019 - 3:42pm
Opher
 
cont'd
 
"The wealth from the [British] Empire was funnelled[sic]  into the pockets of the wealthy. Life for ordinary people in Britain was appalling. They had no say in how the country was run; they did not even have a vote. They were used, exploited and abused."
 
This redistribution of wealth seems to comply with Lenin as well. He ruined the country, his after-stooge Stalin and others finally collapsed the currency and trashed the country. Life for ordinary people Russia did not improve, nor in Cuba, or Cambodia. As you say the "were used, exploited and abused" along with being starved and murdered. 


 
And Corbyn will change the UK into a paradise like Atlee did?
 
"Attlee implemented one of the most ambitious legislative programmes in British history, creating the National Health Service, expanding the size and scope of the welfare state and taking major sectors of the nation’s industry into public ownership. The Attlee government even sought to control the supply and prices of some commodities in order to ‘plan’ the economy. "--https://history.blog.gov.uk/2014/03/11/clement-attlee-enigmatic-out-of-time-and-formidable/
 
This can hardly be believed as such measures sink societies into stagnation [see  the EU which Corbyn likes] and worse. Moscow had a parade of dunces who tried to "control the supply and prices of some commodities."
 
All this is re-stroke of Marxism with lesser talents. Government will dictate.
George N Romey Added Jan 29, 2019 - 4:28pm
Dave there will always be adults that are limited in abilities.  We in the western world tend to think laborious jobs unworthy but people, particularly with limited scope can take pleasure in that they keep the floors or bathrooms clean.  There is a waterfront park in downtown Miami.  The care keeper there prides himself in how he keeps the park spotless, the trash cans emptied and the benches spotless.  Is his happiness any different than a CEO thrilled that he runs a multi mega billion dollar company?
 
Unfortunately illegal immigration takes these jobs away and puts downward pressure on the wages.  Technology may take away some of those jobs and that's an issue.
 
As far as the "won'ts."  This is where they should be punished for their laziness.  Everyone should be expected to make a contribution.  Remember not too long ago I was part of the public welfare system and I would 2/3 of the recipients were gaming the system.  They deserve no mercy.
Doug Plumb Added Jan 29, 2019 - 4:42pm
I am perfectly happy doing the work the George suggests. I do not have to be important in Satan's paradise. I have the disability of not being able to put parts on things in factories. My spatial memory is terrible, on the other hand tensors and vector calculus are fine for me.
Doug Plumb Added Jan 29, 2019 - 4:44pm
Opher you should watch Animal Farm, and really really think about it.
Doug Plumb Added Jan 29, 2019 - 4:45pm
re "Doug - I've never read anything Henry Ford wrote. But he was a Capitalist so I presume he supports that system and I don't."
 
Ford had a true capitalist ethic. He said that he wanted to build his cars as well as possible, sell them as cheap as possible and pay his workers as much as possible.
Dave Volek Added Jan 29, 2019 - 5:11pm
George
I would say that maybe 1 out of 10 welfare recipients in Canada are gaming the system. It used to be a lot higher, but we have learned a few things.
 
I would say that maybe 3 out of 10 could take on a part-time job. We are learning how to implement this transition without losing the incentive to stay permanently on welfare.
 
If the welfare system in the USA is so screwed, then I say blame the system of governance, not the recipients.
 
Dave Volek Added Jan 29, 2019 - 5:23pm
George (again)
And yes, we need to find meaningful work for people.
 
In North America, we have a phobia about public washrooms. If I am in downtown Calgary and natures calls, I have to suck it up until I find some obscure washroom. Sometimes I pretend to be a customer in a store to get that privilege.
 
The communists had a great way. In Trnava (a Slovak city of about 80,000), there were two public washrooms on the north and south ends of the downtown core. If nature called, one just walked to one of these washrooms, paid a crown or two, got some toilet paper, and did your thing. There were always a couple of people on staff to watch out for suspicious activity and keep things clean. These people seemed to be approaching retirement age; maybe it was a good job for them before the pension kicked in.
 
When I was living in Edmonton, a woman was murdered in the washroom of a transit station. The government's solution: close all the washrooms of the transit stations in Calgary and Edmonton. There really is no place to go while waiting for the train. Communists had a better way.
 
If a UBI provides basic sustenance, we should have jobs for people who want to earn a little more. Here's one: sorting recyclables. Your park attendant is another good idea.
 
 
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 5:40pm
rycK - and the USA.
Jeremy Corbyn is not a capitalist, is not racist and has a set of policies that would address the gross inequalities that are hamstringing the country.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 5:43pm
rycK - Atlee presided over a government that did more for ordinary people than any other government in the history of Britain.
The NHS is still the jewel in the crown providing excellent health care for everybody at a fraction of the cost of the US system.
Socialism works and does not degenerate into tyranny.
opher goodwin Added Jan 29, 2019 - 5:47pm
Doug - I have read Animal Farm, 1984 and Homage to Catalonia many times. The expose of the communist tyranny in Russia has nothing to do with socialism. You seem unable to make the distinction as I keep pointing out.
Democratic socialism is not tyrannical communism.
Animal Farm is about the Russian Bolshevik robbery of the revolution. If the democratic Mensheviks had taken over we might have had a different story. Stalin was a tyrant. 
Ward Tipton Added Jan 30, 2019 - 4:17am
History has shown us repeatedly that governments will not long serve the people when it can lord over them. 
 
History has shown us repeatedly that the more distant the government is from the governed, the more oppressive it will be. 
 
I am still waiting for the lesson to be learned by Statists however, but not holding my breath. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 30, 2019 - 4:38am
Ward - so what is your answer? How should we be governed?
More importantly how do we control the globalists who are flouting every international law going?
Ward Tipton Added Jan 30, 2019 - 5:59am
My answer is not viable, though would be permanent. That being said, again, as I have noted numerous times. I have a solution that has been approved and greenlighted by limited governments around the world, in some cases as an Economic Freeport Zone, in some cases in accordance with Tribal Government and in some cases, through the approval of dictators or other presidents seeking to improve the lives of at least parts of their populations. 
 
A solution, while perhaps not viable at all, and certainly not easy even if it is: 
What I am working on now, is trying to fund the requisite corporate structure to build the first community development, likely in cooperation with one of the Indigenous tribes I am working with and have approval from. After that, it gets implemented in a few more select locations where it has been approved and again, it proves the theory and the ability for a systemically sustainable construct, and then the powers that be step in and claim all the credit ... and hopefully allow it to run for a few decades to become the new norm ... and if not, it remains in the indigenous tribes alone. 
 
On a side note, I did apply for a job at the CFR ... it will be interesting to see whether or not they agree that I no longer exist. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 30, 2019 - 6:49am
Ward - what indigenous tribes are these? And what is the community development? It sounds fascinating.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 30, 2019 - 7:25am
Indigenous tribes in the Philippines, Costa Rica and Vanuatu and the Aboriginal tribes in Oz ... who are the only group that actually still hold full sovereignty. Systemic Sustainability ... Economically (and financially ... though rolled into a single category for classification purposes even though they are separate concepts and constructs) environmentally and socially sustainable. 
 
Where does the power come from through the banksters? Corporate and governance, leaving the people left behind. The Community Developments are established with a weighted and enforceable voice between the government, the corporate and the people, with carefully structured Organizational, foundational and corporate bylaws and charters in place making it nearly impossible ... we hope ... to pervert the system ... it will only work in closed systems at present, but there may be room to expand it. The people also have two additional resorts for redress in the Ombudsman Program and Citizen Review Board, both of which can be called to determine more detailed and intricate matters, including the input from supporting and opposing professionals and other parties. Service is mandatory for the citizenry just as jury duty in some locations is now, lest they become complacent and trusting of those who would round them up, even just to shackle themselves. 
Ward Tipton Added Jan 30, 2019 - 7:28am
The basic outline as I have noted, is about 125,000 words, but that is just an outline. The system itself has to be adaptive in nature given the cultural, historical, traditional and even environmental variations found in the real world. Dave has gotten a copy, but I have yet to hear any of his thoughts. Suffice it to say that I do not trust the government any more than I trust the corporations any more than I trust the people, so it is structured so that all are held to account, each by the other ... and in cases wherein there remains an unresolved conflict, to be determined based on the merits of supporting and opposing professionals, and a full vote between the three groups requiring a majority for settlement. 
Doug Plumb Added Jan 30, 2019 - 7:30am
Who writes the law in a Marxist society Opher? Clearly it cannot stand the common law, so who writes the laws and what are their maxims? How do you know this new law will be good for people? How do you know millions of people won't need to be murdered to prop up the system and/or keep it running? Do you think that you are smarter than all the other socialists of the past?
Don in Odessa Added Jan 30, 2019 - 7:30am
@opher goodwin
The difference between you and I is, you prefer that a governing body dictate and enforce, "a partnership where people care for each other and show compassion for the needy, group together for the common good and share the wealth created more equitably." I prefer the freedom to determine who I partner with, who I care for, who I show compassion for and who is truly needy or undeserving. As for sharing the wealth, a correctly regulated capitalist free market system can work. The issue with that last bit is we, the voters, have allowed the powerful, the law makers and the bankers to walk off with the wealth.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 30, 2019 - 7:43am
"Who writes the law in a Marxist society Opher? Clearly it cannot stand the common law, so who writes the laws and what are their maxims? "
 
One of the great benefits of the Indigenous and Aboriginal people is that they still follow the common or natural law. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 30, 2019 - 10:03am
Opher
 
"rycK - Atlee presided over a government that did more for ordinary people than any other government in the history of Britain.
The NHS is still the jewel in the crown providing excellent health care for everybody at a fraction of the cost of the US system.
Socialism works and does not degenerate into tyranny."
 
[1] Atlee was a democratic socialist patterned after Lenin--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leninism
 
[2] Thatcher had to tear down government mismangement of industries and tried to fix HC. HC is a disgrace in the UK. 
 
[3] NHS is slow and operations and such are delayed months or not offered at all. NHS is a disgrace 
 
"Is the N.H.S. ‘Not Working’?

The National Health Service is certainly being stretched.
Since the start of this decade, budgetary austerity has kept target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">annual growth in health spending at around 1.2 percent (adjusted for inflation) — significantly less than the 4 percent increases that were the historical norm.
Patients often wait months, even for essential procedures. Waiting rooms are often crowded.
Such crowding — and in particular immigrants’ use of the health system — was cited as a factor by some voters in Britain’s June 2016 referendum to leave the European Union. But paradoxically, the plans for that “Brexit” may have made the situation worse: Fearing that they will not have a long-term future in Britain, many skilled health workers, particularly nurses, have left the country, exacerbating staff shortages.
Meanwhile, strains on the system have been worsened by an unusually strong flu outbreak this winter that forced hospitals to cancel many elective procedures and, in some cases, delay surgeries for patients with life-threatening conditions like cancer and heart disease."--https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/world/europe/uk-nhs-trump.html
 
 Is it not clear that Atlee and Lenin had identical views and dreams about government control of the economies of their states? UK is going broke: External debt to GDP is %195.
 
[4] Democratic socialism leads to net wealth loss for the average citizens. Period. And look at ObamaCare. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 30, 2019 - 12:53pm
Ward that sound great but how would that relate to our huge societies?
opher goodwin Added Jan 30, 2019 - 12:54pm
Doug - The laws are written by the elected representatives as they are now.
No I reckon there have been some very smart socialists and still are.
opher goodwin Added Jan 30, 2019 - 12:57pm
Don - I do not think it is practical to make those sort of decisions. I believe we elect a government to make the correct decisions and we are all part of that society. 
I want a compassionate society.
Yes I think capitalism, properly regulated, can work. I want to see that in a socialist context.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 30, 2019 - 1:04pm
Opher does not think that Atlee and Lenin had identical plans for the economy. The only slight difference was that Lenin would limit votes to only 1 person on the ballot boxes. Otherwise they are the  same: government control of everything. 
opher goodwin Added Jan 30, 2019 - 1:05pm
rycK - yes Atlee was a democratic socialist - just like I want.
Thatcher was a callous thug. She used the countries resources (North Sea Oil) in order to smash the miners, sold off all our assets to foreign investors at cut-down prices, hammered the poor and public services, sold off our housing, deregulated creating the later banking crisis and BSE. An evil bitch of a woman. She devastated our manufacturing industry. I think you need to check her out more.
The NHS is not slow and useless. I've just availed myself today. I have to have a small op. Doctor to specialist - one week. No waiting. I have two friends being treated for cancer - latest drugs, brilliant support and treatment. I think you are ill-informed with propaganda put out by the money-grabbing US health insurance companies.
I don't know where you get you views on wealth. The standard of living in Socialist countries as in Scandinavia is far superior to that in the USA.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 30, 2019 - 1:17pm
"The NHS is not slow and useless."
 
Now, from my 8-10 trips to the UK some lasting a week or more I usually compared perks, taxes and HC with my colleagues over there and most of them said the HC was slow. Some had apparent refusals and had to go to private doctors, apparently permitted in the UK. 
 
"Thatcher was a callous thug."
 
She was undoing the socialist mess 
 
The Government of Margaret Thatcher, who favoured indirect taxationreducedpersonal income tax rates during the 1980s. In the first budget after her election victory in 1979, the top rate was reduced from 83% to 60% and the basic rate from 33% to 30%. ... The top rate of income tax was cut to 40% in the 1988 budget."--https://www.google.com/search?q=thatcher+social+policy&oq=thatcher+on+social&aqs=chrome.3.0j69i57j0l4.12227j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
A person like Corbyn appears to be the kind of guy that could punish the upper classes and force them to leave as happened in France with too high taxes. Such cuts spurred on the economy as similar cuts in the US are doing. 
 
The only loser here is the bloated government. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 30, 2019 - 1:23pm
On Corbyn:
"Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn is both praised and criticised for one of his defining political features: sticking decade after decade to the same political views.
Some people see that as an attribute – sticking with your principles – and others as a flaw – being stuck in the past. Either way, it’s clearly a large part of his political personality.
It’s also the way to understanding his views on Brexit, as those too follow a long-run and consistent approach. He is, in short, a life-long Eurosceptic:

Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted rel="nofollow">repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.
Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.
The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 30, 2019 - 1:25pm
cont'd

The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 – the two-year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted.
In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017.
Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union.
During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe.
In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn rel="nofollow">opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market.
In 2018, Jeremy Corbyn said he would try to make  Brexit go ahead even if Labour won a general election before it happened.

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/
 
16 hr ago:
"Jeremy Corbyn says he told Theresa May "don't bring no deal back to Parliament" in their long-awaited face-to-face meeting on Brexit."--https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47052227
 
What is he doing??
 
So he wants out of the EU??? It looks like he just wants to snarl up things and make May look bad. 
 
jmnsho
 
opher goodwin Added Jan 30, 2019 - 2:54pm
rycK - we all know that Corbyn is anti-EU. He's been a reluctant Remainer. So what?
opher goodwin Added Jan 30, 2019 - 2:57pm
rycK - BTW - May doesn't need any help to make herself look bad. She's a complete disaster. The country is falling apart under her management: schools, police, courts, prisons, defence, libraries, youth services, mental health, the NHS. They are all in crisis.
Brexit is the epitome of incompetence. Nothing is working except the endless channelling of wealth to the top.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 30, 2019 - 4:42pm
"Ward that sound great but how would that relate to our huge societies?"
 
It may not at all if I cannot get it started. It may be such that the proverbial powers that be take credit for it and make it their own. That is the indication I have gotten in some meetings I have attended by the powers that you seem to trust so much ... that in reality care more about their paychecks and passing off projects to their friends regardless of their efficacy or even if they are ever implemented or not, much less completed. I believe one likely scenario as predicted by most of our sociologists would be that when people in the industrialized nations see indigenous and/or aboriginal people working less and enjoying a better median quality of life than those in the "civilized world" there will be a certain level of introspection that will become inevitable. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 30, 2019 - 5:31pm
Opher
 
"rycK - BTW - May doesn't need any help to make herself look bad. She's a complete disaster. The country is falling apart under her management: schools, police, courts, prisons, defence, libraries, youth services, mental health, the NHS. They are all in crisis.
Brexit is the epitome of incompetence. Nothing is working except the endless channelling of wealth to the top."
 
[1] agree May is a disaster. 
 
[2] The UK is falling apart due to high taxes and rules and regs and the compleat dominance by Brussels. The EU wants to tax all financial transactions in London and take awy the UK's best economic asset. 
 
[3] IF Brexit is the epitome  of incompetence and nothing is working except the endless channeling of wealth to the top then how do you expect the lower classes to advance? The EU is a gross monster that attempts to consume all that looks like assets. Nobody elected these EU leaders. 
 
Apparently, you think that taxing financial transactions [Tobin tax] will somehow benefit the 'poor' or lower echelon earners. The UK in a huge debt situation with no way to pay down the debt or even stop the deficit spending. 
 
I think Corbyn is just trying to make Brexit a major political point to unseat May. He will apparently use the Brexit mess to his advantage even if he dislikes it. 
 
jmnsho 
 
opher goodwin Added Jan 30, 2019 - 6:50pm
Ward - it is certainly a rat-race but it has been for a long time and shows no sign of waking up.
opher goodwin Added Jan 30, 2019 - 6:53pm
rycK - I don't think the EU has anything to do with it. May's policies of austerity and savage cuts that have gone on and on for 10 years have nothing to do with the EU. She is using Brexit as camouflage for incompetence. Her policy is tax cuts for the wealthy and cuts for everyone else. It is scandalous.
Doug Plumb Added Jan 31, 2019 - 5:06am
re "Doug - The laws are written by the elected representatives as they are now."
 
Laws are not written by elected representatives. Elected representatives write statutes.
Doug Plumb Added Jan 31, 2019 - 5:08am
Opher, notice of "law" and "statute" are speled differently and they sound different - its because they are different. I was watching a movie the other night and the young girl asked for a lawyer, the attorney said that attorney means the same thing as lawyer. So people assume that is true, even though TV has permission to lie. This is how fictional propaganda works. A lawyer and an attorney are not the same thing.
Stone-Eater Added Jan 31, 2019 - 11:36am
Oph
 
Problem is.....what can the UK export besides of Marmite and British humoUr ? Cars...Germans....weapons.....(sigh) US, Russia, China, Germany.....
 
The London City works on Hedgefunds and banks. What is left when that crashes except of the beautiful landscape of Essex, Sussex and Co ?
 
I like to know.
 
But....I like the UK and its people. I wouldn't like to see it going down.
Ward Tipton Added Jan 31, 2019 - 12:09pm
"The London City works on Hedgefunds and banks. What is left when that crashes except of the beautiful landscape of Essex, Sussex and Co ?"
 
It will bring down the Vatican and DC with it, so there will be a lot of other issues to worry about ... like staying alive ... when that happens. It does seem to be happening however. 
The Owl Added Jan 31, 2019 - 12:44pm
My objections, Opher is not rooted in your aims...
 
They have to do with the methods that you wish to employ and the lack of diversity in those entitled to make the choices.
 
They also encompass your apparent failure to understand that when you lose at the ballot box, you're not entitled to an immediate mulligan.
 
 
opher goodwin Added Jan 31, 2019 - 1:52pm
Doug - so where do you think laws come from?? A fairy in the sky?
opher goodwin Added Jan 31, 2019 - 1:54pm
Stone - and Rock Music!! Some good films!! Motorbikes!! Fashion!! Literature!! My Books!!
opher goodwin Added Jan 31, 2019 - 2:02pm
Owl - They have to do with the methods that you wish to employ and the lack of diversity in those entitled to make the choices.
What do you mean by that? Which methods? What diversity?
The problem is that it is obvious that Brexit is going to fuck the country. Nearly all the MPs know that and the country has changed its mind. The lies have proven to be lies. The deal that May has is not the one promised.
It seems obvious to me that it is wise to check.
There's five people in a car.
One says 'Let's go off the road and drive as fast as we can in that direction. It'll be fun.'
Two agree and two thought it a stupid idea.
'Let's vote on it!'
They did. Three votes to two.
They went off the road hurtling along.
'Oh look a cliff!' One said as the hurtled towards it.
'This might not be fun. We are hurtling towards a cliff!'
'But we voted on it so we have to keep going now!'
'Can't we have another vote?'
'No.'
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Jan 31, 2019 - 3:15pm
Opher
 
"rycK - I don't think the EU has anything to do with it. May's policies of austerity and savage cuts that have gone on and on for 10 years have nothing to do with the EU."
 
So, what is your stand on Brexit??
 
You support staying in the EU Octopus for a while??
 
"
Mr Corbyn said it was a "serious" meeting and Mrs May had "listened".
He had refused to meet Mrs May unless she agreed to rule out a no-deal Brexit, but changed his mind after MPs voted against the idea of leaving the EU on 29 March without a deal on Tuesday evening."--https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47052227?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c50znx8v4z7t/theresa-may&link_location=live-reporting-story
 
""He [Corbyn] has no plan for Brexit, no good plan for our economy and no plan for our country," she told MPs."--https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47052227?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c50znx8v4z7t/theresa-may&link_location=live-reporting-story
 
No plan??
 
 
opher goodwin Added Jan 31, 2019 - 7:06pm
rycK - obviously Brexit is a massive hit for Britain. It will damage our economy and lessen our power.
Yes there are things wrong with the EU but the partnership is beneficial on many levels. The collaboration is enormous. The outward looking psychology is vital. The partnership reduces conflict. Trade and movement is great. 
Imagine if you had to put customs barriers, tariffs, bureaucracy and checks between all States. How much of a waste of money would that be? How time consuming? Would you be happy applying for visas to go from one State to another?
What a nightmare.
Corbyn has a very clear plan. He would stay in the Customs Union and thus solve all the problems.
He also has clear and effective policies to deal with the enormous mess the Tories have made of the country - crime levels, NHS, education, youth services, police, railways, roads, infrastructure, mental health services, councils - all in meltdown and crisis.
FacePalm Added Feb 1, 2019 - 7:11am
Here's some history Brits will be well-served to learn from.
 
<13min., and well-worth the time.
Stone-Eater Added Feb 1, 2019 - 8:01am
Face
 
I watched it. Quite dramatic LOL. I'd have tens of good and informative videos at hand but....they're in German :-(
 
I really hate language barriers !
Stone-Eater Added Feb 1, 2019 - 8:04am
Oph
 
I don't trust any politician. Remember Joschka Fischer in Germany ? He made a miraculous change from a peace activist to a NATO fan when he became foreign minister of Germany.
 
Fuck them teflons....
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 1, 2019 - 3:41pm
Opher
 
"rycK - obviously Brexit is a massive hit for Britain. It will damage our economy and lessen our power.
Yes there are things wrong with the EU but the partnership is beneficial on many levels. The collaboration is enormous.
 
OKay, but it seems that Corbyn is playing politics with the UK future and the notion that "Corbyn has a very clear plan. He would stay in the Customs Union and thus solve all the problems" appears to fix the UK in its current trading state. 
 
"The customs union is a principal component of the European Union, since its establishment in 1958 as European Economic Community. There are no tariffs or non-tariff barriers to trade between members of the customs union and – unlike a free trade area – members of the customs union impose a common external tariff on all goods entering the union.[3]---https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Customs_Union
 
This appears to me to stand firm and obey the EU rules and the common ext tariff seems to work against any 'deals' with favored trading partners. The EU bunch in Brussels seems to have convinced  Corbyn to stay shackled to the EU brand of socialism. 
 
jmnsho, a very complex problem.
 
Thanx for the info Opher.  
opher goodwin Added Feb 1, 2019 - 6:14pm
rycK - firstly the EU is far from socialist. In fact many want to leave because it is far too right-wing. 
It is May who is doing all the dealing with the EU, has shut everyone else out, and is making a huge mess of it all.
Corbyn is keeping his powder dry on the sidelines and playing a canny game. May has foolishly kept everyone out. She is playing to her extreme right-wing. That is the problem.
Yes - the EU is our biggest trading partner and we have enormous collaboration. The Customs Union makes complete sense.
opher goodwin Added Feb 1, 2019 - 6:17pm
Face - Tommy Robinson was a football hooligan, a British Fascist and has been promoting lies about Muslims. This Islamophobic rant is part of that. Just look at the guys history. He's a fascist.
opher goodwin Added Feb 1, 2019 - 6:18pm
Stone - I too am skeptical of politicians - but I despise fascists more.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 2, 2019 - 1:32pm
 Opher
 
"rycK - firstly the EU is far from socialist. In fact many want to leave because it is far too right-wing. "
 
Hard to  believe.............
opher goodwin Added Feb 3, 2019 - 7:13pm
rycK - not if you live in it. I really do not know where you Americans get these crazy ideas from. The EU is far from socialist.