Opher’s World is Stranger than Never-Never Land

I frequently ponder upon Opher’s description of a wonderful government and society that he envisions for all humanity and admit that I could not post any major objections or even minor quips about that place.  It would, indeed, be a privilege and a pleasure to live there. Such a society would provide as much as any citizen could ask for.  So, I offer no objections to any of his goals in establishing and maintaining such a realm.

But reason and history prevent me from believing that such a system is even possible, and for that I am sad. Perhaps in another space and time this could happen.

Too bad as I would like to believe.

Comments

Bill H. Added Feb 5, 2019 - 3:20pm
rycK-
Being that greed seems to control the priorities of those who are in control, I will have to agree with you.
The Owl Added Feb 5, 2019 - 3:20pm
I would have to agree, rycK, Opher's utopia is, like most utopias, too good to be true.  Nice objective, but singularly unachievable.
 
Until man's competitive nature is contained, he will make little substantive progress.
 
But hey, it's his life to waste on dreams of the impossible and the improbable.
 
 
Webmaster Added Feb 5, 2019 - 3:26pm
In Siberia, there are settlements of the sect of Vissarion. This is a former traffic police inspector who declared himself the second Christ. They live well there, albeit in country houses. I think they eat natural food, breathe clean air, do not have sharp conflicts. The former traffic police inspector lives separately from them, but occasionally descends to read a sermon. Many people like this way of life considering the number of members in this sect. So there is already at least one utopia brought to life.
Mustafa Kemal Added Feb 5, 2019 - 3:37pm
Thanks for the pointers Webmaster.
 
Mustafa
Webmaster Added Feb 5, 2019 - 3:53pm
Mustafa, those are not all the pointers, now search yourself for "Vissarion`s sect victims", there were cases of dystrophy and diseases as "Christ" strictly banned eating meet so they had to eat just vegetables. I knew a young man whose parents became members of this sect so he preferred to run away from their settlement and had to wander in search of shelter, food and work. Every utopia has two sides, and the socialist utopia in USSR had Gulag represssion camps as its second site.
George N Romey Added Feb 5, 2019 - 3:55pm
At some point an intelligent person understand what is possible and what is folklore.  Only in children's novels are there ferry princes and princesses ready to rule the world in a benevolent manner.  On the contrary anyone that would want to rule the world on a global basis is a psychopath and with any psychopath they are able to convince the masses, or the sheep they are in it for the good.
 
Not to mention whose world do we undertake.  Western, Muslim/Middle East, Israeli, Asian, Oceania?  They all have stark differences. 
 
When a seven year tells you they want every other little boy and girl to have a pony to ride and pet we think them not evil but we certainly can't take them seriously.  
 
No doubt there are small utopias in the world.  Or at least a utopia to the inhabitants.  That's if places like Siberia fit your desires.  
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 5, 2019 - 4:01pm
After pondering the wants and edicts of our current politicos on the left, it appears that we are moving not toward a decent world of Opher's views but  backward into the times of warring city-states of centuries ago. 
 
Really, we can have free education, free health care and much more but at what cost?? The nominal costs of free HC plus college exceeds some $3 Trillion dollars per year in current terms and we will run a $0.7 T,or more, deficit this year alone adding to the $23 T in current  debt.
 
We cannot afford what we have now given the rise in debt service and other costs as time passes. 
 
Only in Never Never Land would this arithmetic work out for the benefit of all. 
 
Not on this planet. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 5, 2019 - 4:12pm
Webmaster
 
The utopias of  the 19th century were founded on grand principles as  Opher and others envisioned, but none lasted and repeat attempts in the 1930s fared less well. The communes of the 1960s failed as well. 
 
"Thus, in a nutshell, a utopian society is a non-existent ideal society where everything is as good as it can possibly be for everyone in the society. The opposite of utopia is dystopia, which is a society marked by fear, oppression, and poverty with little to no hope for improvement.Oct 26, 2017"--https://www.google.com/search?q=utopias+of+the+1800s&oq=utopias+of+&aqs=chrome.4.0j69i57j0l4.9826j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
Even  on a small scale this form of system does not work well for long. 
 
"The theory [of utopias ed.] goes like this: Instead of acting in the world, all you have to do is become a peaceful, non-violent person — a model human, and others will follow your model. This is how you change the world, by focusing entirely upon yourself."--https://areomagazine.com/2018/03/08/why-utopian-communities-fail/
 
I  heard all this in 1965-1966 in San Francisco. Look how that turned out. 
Webmaster Added Feb 5, 2019 - 4:22pm
US is close to bankruptcy, so probably this is the other side of the American dream utopia which confronted the reality. Every time you hear about new "Nice Happy World" just ask the happy storyteller who is going to pay for all this happiness. By the way Siberian "Christ" himself ate the meat so it was not forbidden for him to have full diet, not a vegetarian one leading to dystrophy. This where utopia starts turning into Gulag camp.
Ryan Messano Added Feb 5, 2019 - 9:13pm
Opher's world is impossible, but it won't stop Opher from believing in it. It's been happening for thousands of years.  Men who don't realize their innate badness try to create a perfect world and really mess things up.  The Founders of America understood mankinds innate badness, and created a great system.  However, the usual pie in the sky liberals are coming along and wretchedly destroying what they did not make.  Like vultures, they prey on dying societies, always promising a utopia and always delivering hellholes.
Steel Breeze Added Feb 6, 2019 - 8:11am
imagine a world like the garden of Eden.....food falls from trees....no disease or conflict....peace reigns....everyone loves everyone....no one is in charge....climate stays stable and comfortable.....now we are really free to do..........eh...........what?
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 10:10am
rycK - well I'm honoured indeed to be lauded with a whole article on my utopian world. Thank you.
Yes - without dreamers we have no dreams.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 10:15am
Web - thanks for pointing out that there have been many communities - spiritual, artistic, political and agricultural that have lived and prospered on idealistic ideologies.
Personally I think we can improve and create a better, fairer world which does not destroy nature, have gross inequality or exploit people. What's more I think that is worth fighting for.
I'm reading about Rudolf Laban right now - one of many.
And not all of those sixties communes and idealists died out or gave up George.
Webmaster Added Feb 6, 2019 - 10:41am
Well, Opher, reading and writing are great things, but are you building your socialist non-utopian party of real good deeds? You have a chance to win elections in GB moreover you are a Remainer so you have a great support now. Political life always needs new people so your start can be successful but later you will have not only supporters, but also opponents.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 11:03am
Web - I'm a writer. I write all manner of books. Sci-fi is a genre I have written a number of novels in. That is what I want to do - not politics. I'll leave that to the liars, power-seekers, narcissists, psychopaths and sociopaths (with a few zealots thrown in for good luck).
Webmaster Added Feb 6, 2019 - 11:33am
Great, literature is a nice thing too, especially if you can earn for living through it. I have read some sci-fi books of Western authors and have found that Bradbury and Wells are the world scale classics.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 11:54am
Web - I'm more into Philip K Dick, Asimov, Iain M Banks, Robert Sheckley, Kurt Vonnegut and Margaret Atwood.
Webmaster Added Feb 6, 2019 - 12:20pm
From all of them I have heard just about Asimov and Vonnegut as they were famous here in Soviet times and Sheckley as he was actively published here in the 90s.
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 6, 2019 - 12:35pm
I am into De Bono,  Niall Ferguson, Suetonius, Will Durant, Milton Friedman, Kenneth Rogoff and Bill O'Reilly. Then Roger Bacon and other scientists unknown to the general public.
 
I authored 26 scientific papers. 
 
Fiction is frequently factious, the self-aggrandizement medium. 
Webmaster Added Feb 6, 2019 - 1:00pm
Ryck, have you met an idea that Roger Bacon was a chrononaut what means a traveler in time? I have read such an article where it was told that Bacon came from the future and sometimes he went there back that is why he disappeared for some time inexplicably. And there is also an idea that Da Vinci was chrononaut too but he stuck in the past and could not return to the future. By the way you mentioned here some economists and historians so did you write your papers on economics and history and have you published them in Internet?
Gerrilea Added Feb 6, 2019 - 1:17pm
Ryck--- Agreed, utopia is an illusion.  But it doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try.
 
We're on the verge, in my humble opinion, of returning to a feudal lord system.  We are indentured servants to our corporate overlords.  We must surely be grateful for the scraps they left for us to fight over.
 
 
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:03pm
Opie Goodwin is a sad and sorry, self-absorbed contributor to WriterBeat.  He's a scatterbrained writer, and full of love for his own ideas.  The way Opher writes, as far as I'm concerned, is akin to a dog chasing his tail.
 
No disrespect, Opie.  Just my professional opinion, nothing personal.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:08pm
Web - I'm surprised!! Atwood's The Midwife's Tale is major news with a series on TV. Not her best but very chilling.
Dick is a genius and Banks is the best modern Sci-fi writer by a mile.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:09pm
rycK - no Ryck - fiction is the highest achievement of man.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:10pm
rycK - BTW - well done. 26 papers is an achievement!
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:11pm
Gerri - let's hope not!! I would like to think we have a brighter future despite Trump and Brexit!!
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:12pm
Thanks Tom. BTW - I'm not sad. I see you are still smarting about being called out over your Holocaust denial.
The Holocaust was real and dreadful. Denying or excusing, or trying to belittle the atrocities is a sin.
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:17pm
The real, dreadful holocaust was what happened in Dresden to Germans.
George N Romey Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:25pm
The issue with Opher's ideas is that they have no thought behind them.  He claims to despise the global elite but yet calls for a global government and global currency.  Does he really believe the same elites wouldn't take control?  If he does he sounds as juvenile as a little kid telling him mommy he wants all little boys and girls to have a pony to ride and pet.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:39pm
George - stop being a div. Your inability to understand is frightening. 
At present we have a global elite who are completely unfettered. I want them controlled.
Is that too hard for your mind to cope with? 
Are you really content to allow this elite to continue without any restrictions?
I want a global body, like the UN, to bring that elite under control.
You seem unable to grasp this. What's your IQ?
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:41pm
Tom - that was a war crime. But it pales into insignificance to the planned systematic extermination of many millions of Jews, gypsies, Slavs, criminals, mentally ill, physically disadvantaged and those with subnormal IQ.
You excuse an atrocity. It's inexcusable.
George N Romey Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:44pm
Opher my IQ is a lot higher than your.  Brainchild who do you think controls the UN?  Who do you think the UN troops fight for?  Haven't you noticed people on this board making hey out of your childish ideas.  
 
Who will control the global elites?  I've asked you and you never answer?  Who will fill your global government?  
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:46pm
LOL.  Opie's another Spielberg historian.  He likes cable shows on Nazis, eats them up and considers himself an expert on the "holocaust".  Pathetic, and unfortunately quite common.
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 6, 2019 - 2:48pm
600,000 burned to death in one night - more than all of the U.S. casualties for the entire duration of WWII, and it "pales in comparison" to the phony-bologna genocide with a capital 'H'.
Neil Lock Added Feb 6, 2019 - 6:57pm
rycK: Nice work.
 
In any discussion on utopias, there are almost always two words missing; Costs and Benefits. You are the only one who has used either of these words in this comment thread so far; well done.
 
And you didn't raise the associated questions, but I will. Who (which individuals) bear the costs of implementing Opher's, or any other sage's, Utopian dream? And who (which individuals) receive the benefits? And if the winners and losers are different people, or groups... how to resolve the issue? Except by violence?
 
That's why "Utopia" means, and will continue to mean, "No place."
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 7:09pm
George - I'd put money on it! Big money! You can't even spell. That's hay I believe and yours.
The UN is representatives from every single country George. They are not the global elite. At present it is controlled by those who have a veto. They are the global elite. Remove the veto and we have a different system. Finance it properly and let it enforce the charter it operates by and the global elite would find they cannot exploit, pollute, wage war, bribe, corrupt or destroy anywhere near as easily.
The power in the UN would be the power of the whole world. It could be diplomatic, economic, through the spotlight of the media or, as a last resort, by force.
You stupid attacks on me are just that - stupid.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 7:15pm
Tom - yes Dresden was a war crime. People should have been tried for it. So was the Holocaust - 
Up to 25,000 people died in the Allied bombing of Dresden during World War II - fewer than often estimated, an official German report has concluded. The Dresden Historians' Commission published its report after five years of research into the 13-15 February 1945 air raid by Britain and the US.
Not the 600,000 you claim.
6,000,000 were deliberately, systematically and callously murdered in the Holocaust. They planned it and executed with full documentation. Used cattle trucks, zyklon B poison and burnt them in crematoria. They worked them to death in death camps. All planned to the last detail and executed with precision.
Your denials and excuses are farcical and positively evil.
Cullen Kehoe Added Feb 6, 2019 - 7:17pm
Opher wants a world government because he's either envious or afraid of the U.S.A. (or a bit of both). And a world government would finally put the U.S.A. on a lease. But it's a rather short-cited viewpoint I think. What if the world government is controlled by a thug like Putin, would that really be an improvement to living under a quasi-empire controlled by the U.S.A. (which currently loves the U.K.)? 
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 6, 2019 - 7:19pm
LOL.  Opie, I guess I just need to watch more Hollywoodcost movies.  Maybe the right one will make me a believer, a believer like you.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 7:20pm
Neil - it is quite simple to see who would benefit in my society based on social democracy. Everyone would benefit from having a most pleasant society with better infrastructure and facilities and a higher quality of life resulting in less unhappiness, crime and poverty. The rich would be material losers in that their incomes would be reduced through fair, progressive taxation but they would benefit from the happier society and better facilities. They would still be rich but not so obscenely rich.
It is what I experienced when I stayed in Denmark. Great facilities and a happy community without tensions.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 7:24pm
BTW George - if you are going to keep bawling and wailing like a child - at least try and come up with your own solution to deal with the global elite. You claim to have grey matter; exercise it. Where's your panacea? I've asked repeatedly. Your only contribution is to mumble stupidly about some cleansing revolution. A hell on earth which has been tried many times with the same result - decades of misery followed by a new elite forming a tyranny. That's the sum total of your intelligence.
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 6, 2019 - 7:25pm
I might have finally seen what rich black folks refer to as 'White Privilege'.  Opie, your vacations are not the same as real, making-ends-meet life.  You've probably never worried about a next meal or how you'd pay rent.  Something tells me you have independent wealth and can afford to pretend your country club lifestyle is the same as real life experience.  
 
Take another vacation to Denmark, please, and try to tell the Danish how they should be "happy".  Learn something, and stop trying to teach.  You're terrible at it.
Jeffry Gilbert Added Feb 6, 2019 - 7:57pm
 
Dresden was a war crime. 
 
True, then again based upon the preponderance of Germans I have met here in Thailand we shouldn't have stopped with Dresden. 
 
That's just me I could be wrong. 
 
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 7:57pm
Tom - I don't have a country club lifestyle. I come from a middle class family one step removed from very poor working class. I have a teachers pension. It's good enough for me. It enables me to travel, write and live in comfort. I have a lot of friends and relatives around the world and travel is cheap.
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 6, 2019 - 7:58pm
Okay, Opie, clearly.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 8:00pm
Tom - BTW - I've lived in the cheapest, most deprived areas of London and Hull, and that's pretty underprivileged. I've worked my way around the USA, worked for a year teaching in the States and my daughter lived in China, Taiwan, the USA and Holland. I got to stay lots and get into the local communities. I've seen and done a lot. I might write another book about my hitch-hiking experiences in the US and on the continent. That'd be fun.
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 6, 2019 - 8:02pm
So impressed.
opher goodwin Added Feb 6, 2019 - 8:03pm
Tom - blinkered people never learn. Shame but there you go. I was brilliant at teaching. I have the promotions, inspections, results, student appraisals and government recognition to prove it. Not too many people get their school to the very top and get called to the Guild Hall by the Secretary for Education twice. I wrote a book about it. A good read.
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 6, 2019 - 8:08pm
Okay, I'll just take your bragging at face value and nod, if you'll shut up.
Leroy Added Feb 6, 2019 - 9:35pm
"But reason and history prevent me from believing that such a system is even possible, and for that I am sad. Perhaps in another space and time this could happen.
Too bad as I would like to believe."
 
No offense, rycK, but I find that position fundamentally wrong.  I object to his world on ideological grounds.   If we believe that such utopias are desirable, we will continue to have people try to develop the framework to make it possible.  The idea is essentially that communism is great; we just haven't implemented it properly yet.  It is fundamentally and morally wrong.  It must be fought on those grounds or we will lose our way.
 
I'm a realist.  But I am also a romantic of sorts.  I see the world as it could be or, perhaps, should be.  The fundamental difference with Opher is that he sees the world as he wants it to be.
Ward Tipton Added Feb 7, 2019 - 7:07am
Well I have to admit to only having authored two Peer Reviewed published papers and co-authoring a third. All of my science fiction was lost and I am trying to put it back together, but somehow not the same writing it from memory as it was writing it down to begin with ... but if I had to select one author, it would have to be Heinlein. 
 
As to a Utopian vision of society, I would refer Opher to the Socialist/Communist "invasion" of Texas in the 1830s and I will say, I do have visions of creating a sustainable community, it is probably only sustainable at the local levels, though with the potential for global trade. 
 
Historically, the farther the government gets from those being governed, the more oppressive it becomes. But Opher is stuck on "I don't think" and "I don't believe" and is incapable of even comprehending anything that does not mesh with his personal views. Even explaining the definitions by which other people view his terms fall on the proverbial deaf ears. 
George N Romey Added Feb 7, 2019 - 8:04am
Ward Opher is very typical of academics. Useful idiots that like to believe pie in the sky ideas so that they can pat themselves on the back and feel good that they are "one of the good guys." But when you ask them how would these ideas work given the complexity of the world they go on the attack.  
 
So Opher wants to control the global elites with the UN but the UN is a puppet of the elites.  
 
As far as Opher's "life experiences." He's never been downsized, laid off or read job posting after job posting that essentially said older white males need not respond.  He has no idea of what it like to pay thousands and thousands into the public welfare system, to need that system one day and be told he's not a "priority" but a young girl banging out babies is.
 
He's never traveled to dangerous and poor parts of the world to get an understand that people in these areas think very, very different than urban western society.  No he only knows what bounces around in his head.
Ward Tipton Added Feb 7, 2019 - 8:10am
I think the term "Academic" must have taken on new meaning since the days of my youth. I seem to remember a day when it involved critical thinking and problem solving skills ... but maybe I am just remembering things incorrectly or maybe I was just very fortunate with those academics that I spent any real time with. I dunno ... but how can anyone be "academic" without the ability to engage in critical thinking or the ability to logically reason a concept from start to its logical conclusion? 
Jeff Michka Added Feb 7, 2019 - 1:30pm
Yeah, Ward, whining, crying Geeho just can't be an elite, the elite he supposedly hates won't let him be one, and opher hit it:  Geeho cries, but NEVER has any idea on how to fix things, just wants an economic collapse so others suffers.  Won't strip one elite from their ranks, but then Geeho just wants to be an elite.  LOL
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 7, 2019 - 1:51pm
Webmaster
 
"Ryck, have you met an idea that Roger Bacon was a chrononaut what means a traveler in time?"
 
 I watch Ancient Aliens TV programs, not for their assumptions, but to view and ponder the artifacts in stone that have survived some 5000  years or more. There are similar pyramids all over the world. 
 
There is no evidence of time travel as we could cite time measurements to show that some person appeared in some setting or newspaper in decades earlier and was then shown to be the same person today. 
 
Apart from a single instance of advanced materials in Egypt [an iron dagger in Tut's tomb from a meteorite] there is nothing of that sort. We have two firm sets of data to date:
 
[1] that there was a keen knowledge of astronomy in ancient times dating back before the Sumerians or before. We cannot explain this. 
 
[2] that there was advanced stone work with a modern day control of measurements and precise angles that cannot be explained without steel and modern manufacturing techniques. The H blocks in Bolivia have precise inside 90 degree angles in hard granite stone requiring very hard tools and measurements. The ancients had no such tools. 
 
Bacon realized that the arm-chair prediction of events and laws of physics required experimentation and not just guessing or citing the ancients like Plato and Aristotle. This was the major break-thru in science.                                                                                           
 
opher goodwin Added Feb 7, 2019 - 1:52pm
George - you talk such shit. How do you have any idea of my life?? You know nothing. I'm no academic.
I have worked in:
A factory making loudspeaker cones
A warehouse - loading airfix plastic 
A bakery - Lyons
A sewage works
Roadsweeping
As a dishwasher
A foundry - steel components
A laboratory technician
An animal house technician
A youth worker
A lecturer
A teacher
As a Union Representative
A Headteacher
I've been hitch hiking around Europe, the UK and the USA. I've been to a number of Third World countries - Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Peru, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Tunisia, Philippines, Java, Bali, Borneo, Egypt, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia, Jordan, Chile, Oman...……….. and seen the poverty first-hand, seen the environmental devastation first-hand and talked with the poorest of the poor. In Zimbabwe I helped teach some poor kids and supported a hospital and AIDS orphanage.
Running a Large Secondary School and being responsible for over a thousand people is an undertaking requiring management and leadership skills. Being a writer who has produced sixty books so far requires a number of other skills and qualities. Having a fifty year marriage with kids and grandkids is a responsibility.
So before you go trying to belittle me, my achievements, my life and my intellect you should be more aware of who you are talking about. I don't fit in your silly little pigeon-holes thanks. You speak arrogantly from ignorance.
What the fuck have you done with your life???
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 7, 2019 - 1:54pm
George N Romney
 
"So Opher wants to control the global elites with the UN but the UN is a puppet of the elites.  "
 
Opher apparently live in a world structured by fiction so that his thoughts and opinions about future governments are quite valid within this proscribed realm. 
 
His speculations are novel but he should not insist that we can have things that we cannot pay for or sustain for long. That is a fiction and not related to the real world. 
opher goodwin Added Feb 7, 2019 - 1:55pm
Ward - if being an academic involves problem solving and critical thinking then I've a proven track record. Being a Headteacher requires those very skills. But in my book being an academic is someone who is involved with academic study and research - not what I've done to any great extent - 3 years of research only.
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 7, 2019 - 1:56pm
Hah - This Seinfeld clip came into my mind as I read Opher Castanza's rant...
 
T-Bone!
opher goodwin Added Feb 7, 2019 - 1:59pm
BTW George - I was only out of work once - for 3 months - I applied for anything and everything. I had a degree but I got off my arse and took a job as a warehouseman for a central heating firm. I then went and did a Master's degree and took a low-paid job as a Lab-tech. Maybe if you got off your arse you'd be more successful getting work.
opher goodwin Added Feb 7, 2019 - 2:03pm
George - the UN is presently controlled by the US. That is what they need to get rid of. If you would only pay attention - you're like the naughty kid at the back of the class - you have to say things countless times and it still doesn't go in. DO AWAY WITH VETOES, APPLY THE CHARTER, and you wouldn't be controlled by the likes of the US global elite. 
The fucking global elite are the ones that need controlling. They are presently uncontrolled and fucking the world up.
Now - unless you've got a better plan.................. (not heard a squeak yet!)
 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 7, 2019 - 2:05pm
Leroy
 
""But reason and history prevent me from believing that such a system is even possible, and for that I am sad. Perhaps in another space and time this could happen.
Too bad as I would like to believe."
 
No offense, rycK, but I find that position fundamentally wrong.  I object to his world on ideological grounds.   If we believe that such utopias are desirable, we will continue to have people try to develop the framework to make it possible. "
 
No offense taken Leroy. 
 
Utopias of Opher's vision are clearly possible and have been established before all falling apart, some in only 5 years. 
 
IF  you want to build something then:
 
[1]  you need resources to do that and
[2] you also need continuing resources that last as long as the new system exists. 
 
The lefties of AOC [Cortez] and her allies apparently disregard costs of sustaining such programs as free college, free HC and much more. As such, there are insufficient resources to do that even if all the wealth of the top 1% is confiscated. And, printing monies as the  US, EU and other nations do cannot last forever. 
 
Thus, that is not a rational plan. 
 
Utopias have traditionally offered people what they want without providing the economic output from the group for self-sustaining resources. 
 
I do not believe that such utopias are desirable or sustainable. 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 7, 2019 - 2:12pm
Ward Tipton
 
I think the term "Academic" must have taken on new meaning since the days of my youth. I seem to remember a day when it involved critical thinking and problem solving skills .."
 
I agree. When I started college the potential engineering outcomes were based on "critical thinking and problem solving skills" as you say. But past 1965 I noticed that finally science was invaded by politics such that critical thinking was supplanted by dogma and political vectors. We now have politicos dictating what science means and who to believe sans any definitive data or proofs from the bench. This started off in 1970 with the book  Limits to Growth by Club of Rome at MIT and turned out to be a farce. This is politics--not science. 
 
A more detailed analysis of the Greens seems to reveal that what they really want is tax revenues and the power to dismantle businesses and manufacturing sites. 
Hussain -The Canadian Added Feb 7, 2019 - 2:42pm
I might of missed the initial discussion, so im kind of at a loss to what Opher has described as a society he would like to see.
 
Opher can you please elaborate on this society if you dont mind?
Tom C. Purcell Added Feb 7, 2019 - 2:43pm
He's a communist, more or less.  A big-government guy.
Leroy Added Feb 7, 2019 - 10:38pm
I've been reading some of AOC's New Green Deal.  You don't have to be a genius to dream up such stupid stuff.  Tell me to design a system where money is no object, and I will design a nifft system.  To misquote Lincoln, sometimes it's better to put your smart phone away and let people think you are a fool than to type something on Twitter and confirm it.  Let's pray that idiot never wields power.
Ward Tipton Added Feb 8, 2019 - 12:37am
Her election is coming. Wait and see. And the masses will drive themselves into poverty, spending everything that they have just to get something for free! If you do not believe it is true, take a job in any casino for a week and watch how many people spend everything they have just to get something "for free". 
rycK the JFK Democrat Added Feb 9, 2019 - 12:57pm
I just deleted an obnoxious post by JM.
 
Leroy
 
"Tell me to design a system where money is no object, and I will design a nifft system."
 
Yes and from a so-called econ  major from BU no less. As to the financing I think their constant calls for higher or confiscatory taxes shows us how they would 'pay' for this folly .
 
Ward Tipton
 
 "And the masses will drive themselves into poverty, spending everything that they have just to get something for free!"
 
Agree 100%. Politics is traditionally driven by pocket book issues and this thrust by the left is no different given the promise to provide for things the low classes cannot ever have. 
 
It is a testament to the notion that emotions and not brain cells motivate voting choices. 
Doug Plumb Added Feb 10, 2019 - 11:10am
Enough people like Opher get together and the bodies will stack up, as usual.
Doug Plumb Added Feb 10, 2019 - 11:40am
re "I've been hitch hiking around Europe, the UK and the USA. I've been to a number of Third World countries - Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Peru, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Tunisia, Philippines, Java, Bali, Borneo, Egypt, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia, Jordan, Chile, Oman...……….. and seen the poverty first-hand, seen the environmental devastation first-hand and talked with the poorest of the poor. In Zimbabwe I helped teach some poor kids and supported a hospital and AIDS orphanage."
 
So you have seen little teeny bits of a few countries and think you have seen it all and know what to do...

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